Forza Motorsport 7: General Discussion
- Thread starter PJTierney
- 6,759 comments
- 544,626 views
Uh less cars could be a good thing. We have 835 cars as it stands now and roughly a third of that is filled with SUVS, oddballs and non motorsport type of cars. FM8 could be the turnaround we need and with majortiy of the roster being focused on motorsport vehicles and not the questionable cars we have now. Even with a roster around 300-400 that's plenty if its nothing but GT cars, prototypes, road cars, track cars, rally cars, etc...
- 10,956
- Canada
I'm sorry but I don't want another GTS 2.0. I stopped playing it because it was less of a game. Why the hell is everybody trying to turn Forza into that? I don't want to have less cars for the next game. If that's the case than we'll have less tracks too, and that sounds utterly stupid. I play Forza to collect, customize and drive cars not just race.
If GT7 gets more than the roster it has now, than I mind as well move back to that instead. And here I thought the racing genre couldn't get more boring and frustrating than it already is. All these rare cars and for what, to start all over AGAIN?
Oh bother....
If GT7 gets more than the roster it has now, than I mind as well move back to that instead. And here I thought the racing genre couldn't get more boring and frustrating than it already is. All these rare cars and for what, to start all over AGAIN?
Oh bother....
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- 14,436
- Los Angeles, CA
- Lma_robot
- lImaRobotl
I definitely hope that is not the case. That sounds terrible.
I don't understand where the correlation is.
- 10,956
- Canada
...or more.? Why are some of you thinking so negative about this. I think by now T10 has learned their lesson and realize as a motorsport game going on its 8th iteration on more than likely its 5th platform its times for a change for the better. With T10 having two types of true fans to cater to one being track focused motorsport and the other being free roam open world, at this point it calls for a split amongst the rosters. They need to shed most if not all SUVs, trucks, oddballs, and non road/track based vehicles. With them shedding dead weight they can really focus and hone in on the cars that really belong in this series. I have faith especially with the long term IMSA partnership, just wait and see guys.
- 24,627
- Anoka, MN
Considering how dated some of the models being used are quality wise, I'm fine with a reduced car count so long as they finally bring all the models up to the highest standard they can.
Obviously the one big issue with this is them bringing older models back as paid-dlc, but I think they've learned their lesson in that regard (for the most part, I know there's still a few that have shown up post-FM5).
Obviously the one big issue with this is them bringing older models back as paid-dlc, but I think they've learned their lesson in that regard (for the most part, I know there's still a few that have shown up post-FM5).
HyperSpeeder
(Banned)
- 954
- Brazil
I'm sorry but I don't want another GTS 2.0. I stopped playing it because it was less of a game. Why the hell is everybody trying to turn Forza into that? I don't want to have less cars for the next game. If that's the case than we'll have less tracks too, and that sounds utterly stupid. I play Forza to collect, customize and drive cars not just race.
If GT7 gets more than the roster it has now, than I mind as well move back to that instead. And here I thought the racing genre couldn't get more boring and frustrating than it already is. All these rare cars and for what, to start all over AGAIN?
Oh bother....
Even if it was a complete carbon copy it would still have the Forza feel we all know and love so it'd be better (depending on what you like of course).
When GTPlanet wrote their piece on the state of FM7 they complained about a lack of direction. And TBH the GTPlanet authors are right. This game shoots at all directions without hitting anything. Biggest proof is career mode, while I don't think it sucks, it's also too horizontal, it's hilarious to say that but it's way too open, even though it does have a sense of progression which most critics tend to overlook because they want an NFS or early GT-style game.
Personally I'd want the full roster. But there's a lot of fat you can trim in that list and I'd start with the buggies (worst championship in the whole game, absolute torture!), then early offroaders, trucks, vans, SUVs, Rolls-Royce type of cars... There are people even talking of removing rally cars but I think it's going too far since those cars were used in rallycross and hillclimb not just WRC stuff.
Also, where exactly can you "drive" cars in Forza Motorsport? Sure there's track day lobbies but few tracks benefit from it. Horizon is the place for that. Or, it would have been if it wasn't so much focused on stunts and "going fast".
- 13,166
- Seattle-ish
I think these are good discussions to have. Getting right to the core of what we want from a racing game (as opposed to a driving game.)
How sim do you want it?
What cars and how many should be in the game?
If you think we should have fewer cars, what goes and why?
Should there even be a career mode?
What about making all cars available right from the start with nothing locked away?
What about locking every car away and making players earn each one?
What is it about GT4 and FM4 that made them such universally beloved sim racing games, and what is missing from GTS and FM7 that keeps us from loving them like we did the earlier games? (You might actually like GTS and/or FM7 more than the older games, YMMV.)
No one game is going to satisfy everyone because everyone has different needs and desires. More accessible to the average gamer means less hard core. More hard core means less appealing to the general gamer. It's a tightrope walk getting that balance right.
How sim do you want it?
What cars and how many should be in the game?
If you think we should have fewer cars, what goes and why?
Should there even be a career mode?
What about making all cars available right from the start with nothing locked away?
What about locking every car away and making players earn each one?
What is it about GT4 and FM4 that made them such universally beloved sim racing games, and what is missing from GTS and FM7 that keeps us from loving them like we did the earlier games? (You might actually like GTS and/or FM7 more than the older games, YMMV.)
No one game is going to satisfy everyone because everyone has different needs and desires. More accessible to the average gamer means less hard core. More hard core means less appealing to the general gamer. It's a tightrope walk getting that balance right.
HyperSpeeder
(Banned)
- 954
- Brazil
I want what we have now but with pit strategy and possibly qualifying, doesn't have to be an elaborate system either. Full dynamic weather and time of day, both of which should be possible in the next console.
If possible I'd like to see the premier automotive series in America with updated car rosters. Le Mans might be too much to ask but I'm sure T10 is considering licensing Valkyrie and other cars.
My favorite archetypical career mode is the one from GRID but something in the vein of Project CARS would be cool as well since T10 has the resources to add all the cosmetics to make it more immersive. I'm not a fan of the "use one car to beat the game" approach, there could be a progression system like that but it's my understanding that to master a campaign you have to be proficient with most things in the game.
I'm against locking anything but the FEs. It hurts the metagame and content creation. On the other hand, having everything available from the get-go defeats the purpose of a career mode unless you have a separate garage for the career.
- 14,436
- Los Angeles, CA
- Lma_robot
- lImaRobotl
No. I have an A class Rolls-Royce and it's actually one of my favorite cars. It's actually pretty damn quick too, to the point that I can jump in a random hopper and do really good the majority of the time.
Also no, somewhat. I don't mind cars locked behind some sort of career progression. I always thought that was fun, and that at least gives everyone a fair chance.
- 881
- Australia
- AS1020
I don't really like the sound of a reduced car count. Isn't car collecting a major aspect of Forza?
- 13,166
- Seattle-ish
It is for me, but for a lot of people, it's about the racing, and they only use a couple dozen cars at most. In my opinion, more cars is better than fewer cars. Even for the people who only use a few cars out of the roster, it gives them a greater pool of cars to choose from, and us car collectors are happy.
- 13,291
- GTPlanet
- Street-King-07
- Quattro Saltire
I'd be all for a reduced car count in Motorsport if T10 puts focus into up to date race cars and getting rid of cars that have no place in a track-based game.
The oddballs and SUVs are better off being in Horizon.
Plus T10 needs a massive reform of the racing classes if they want to make the next game more motorsport focused.
The CaRPG genre doesn't hold nearly as much weight as it did 5-10 years ago. Especially with the competition moving towards a narrower focus.
The oddballs and SUVs are better off being in Horizon.
Plus T10 needs a massive reform of the racing classes if they want to make the next game more motorsport focused.
The CaRPG genre doesn't hold nearly as much weight as it did 5-10 years ago. Especially with the competition moving towards a narrower focus.
- 14,436
- Los Angeles, CA
- Lma_robot
- lImaRobotl
I don't like Horizon nearly as much, so those oddballs leaving would all but remove the game from ever being in my library to be honest. I want those on the track, specifically to test them against cars that they have no right fighting against, and hopefully winning.
The competition moving to a narrower focus is exactly the reason why they should remain in, I feel.
The competition moving to a narrower focus is exactly the reason why they should remain in, I feel.
- 27,387
- Toronto
- NewAesthetic
- SlipZtrEm
I always find it fascinating when people advocating for sim racing devs to remove content that already exists.
Working on cars and then dumping them is a colossal waste of time, especially when their inclusion means there's potentially more models for any player to be interested in. I recognize FM8 will likely be on Scarlett, but I'd be very surprised if T10/Playground haven't been building assets with that system's specs in mind since at least FM6 (as it was the basis for the first PC title).
I mean, sure, if the entire ~900-ish cars that are available within FM7 and FH4 need a complete overhaul for next-gen, then Turn 10 should focus on popular models first before the more oddball choices. But oddballs are what help games stand out. That, and they can be a lot of fun in a way that the real world won't bother with. At the GT FIA event in Vegas last year, the best races for me as a spectator were undoubtedly the Raptor ones.
What I think really helps with those though — and something I think Turn 10 should lean into with the next game — is making sure there's historical significance behind these oddballs. The original Raptor, while seemingly an odd choice in GT Sport given the current one was already a few years old, at least represented a milestone for the F-150: it was a new approach to what high-performance was, different from the Lightnings that came before. Meanwhile, the Tundra that arrived last month struck me as a far less successful addition, because it's not exactly a stand-out model in truck (or even Toyota) history.
The thing that really did FM7 a disservice was that car collection screen, where every car was reduced to a small thumbnail on a massive grid. We should be celebrating these cars, letting people learn about them before they're able to digitally drive them at any number of circuits. That grid turned it into a Pokemon-style collectathon simply for the sake of collecting, and that cheapens the cars. It's an element I think GT, even with its less diverse roster, still does better, but with FM being more in the mould of classic GTs, it should make the cars the star right away, starting with just selecting them at the dealer.
Working on cars and then dumping them is a colossal waste of time, especially when their inclusion means there's potentially more models for any player to be interested in. I recognize FM8 will likely be on Scarlett, but I'd be very surprised if T10/Playground haven't been building assets with that system's specs in mind since at least FM6 (as it was the basis for the first PC title).
I mean, sure, if the entire ~900-ish cars that are available within FM7 and FH4 need a complete overhaul for next-gen, then Turn 10 should focus on popular models first before the more oddball choices. But oddballs are what help games stand out. That, and they can be a lot of fun in a way that the real world won't bother with. At the GT FIA event in Vegas last year, the best races for me as a spectator were undoubtedly the Raptor ones.
What I think really helps with those though — and something I think Turn 10 should lean into with the next game — is making sure there's historical significance behind these oddballs. The original Raptor, while seemingly an odd choice in GT Sport given the current one was already a few years old, at least represented a milestone for the F-150: it was a new approach to what high-performance was, different from the Lightnings that came before. Meanwhile, the Tundra that arrived last month struck me as a far less successful addition, because it's not exactly a stand-out model in truck (or even Toyota) history.
The thing that really did FM7 a disservice was that car collection screen, where every car was reduced to a small thumbnail on a massive grid. We should be celebrating these cars, letting people learn about them before they're able to digitally drive them at any number of circuits. That grid turned it into a Pokemon-style collectathon simply for the sake of collecting, and that cheapens the cars. It's an element I think GT, even with its less diverse roster, still does better, but with FM being more in the mould of classic GTs, it should make the cars the star right away, starting with just selecting them at the dealer.
- 10,956
- Canada
I don't know why some wants Forza to be like every other racing game with the same, repetitive focus. How is simply racing around a track and not doing much else any fun? IMO that sounds utterly boring. If Forza went down that route than the racing genre is pretty much dead to me. If people really want that, there are a whole much of other racers out there with that same tiresome focus.
You really have to question some who complain "more of the same", when in fact they want every racing game to be the same as each other. That makes no sense to me whatsoever.
I like to collect cars and driving them (especially the oddballs). T10 trying to impress the minority will be the greatest mistake they've ever make.
You really have to question some who complain "more of the same", when in fact they want every racing game to be the same as each other. That makes no sense to me whatsoever.
I like to collect cars and driving them (especially the oddballs). T10 trying to impress the minority will be the greatest mistake they've ever make.
I like to test drive in both games, but more so in FM when tuning cars. If I'm not in the mood to "race", than I "test drive" my collection of cars instead. Both FM and FH are no different in this aspect, and the mode "Test Drive" further proves this.
Corsa
Premium
- 2,104
- United States
I would think this would make Forza even more appealing.
- 9,943
- Denmark
The high car count is pretty much the main reason I’m currently drawn to Forza. My vision for FM8 has always revolved around the car lists from FM7 and FH4 combined into the most comprehensive virtual garage ever. Not sure how my wallet will respond to anything less. The team has built such a fine collection over the past four years, so shrinking it sounds like self-punishment to me.
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You guys do realize the more cars the less of this or that or more bugs. Now i cant speak too far ahead as I don't know how powerful and capable the next xbox will be for FM8 but the way I see it, a car roster surpassing 1000+ is possible but is it really smart? Will they do how they did with FM7 and add maybe 2-3 new tracks and call it good? Will they cut some features in place of a highly detailed massive car roster? Again we remember the days of FM2-3 where we had what 250-350 cars and it was still a solid beautiful game with good content and FM4 further added to that although the car Count was up there past 600 I think. But if T10 was smart they would trim some fat with the current car roster, add some from the latest horizon and then add another 100 or so more like they always do with each release and I can see the car count in the next game being around 300-400 not including DLC.
- 5,605
- Alabamistan
Outside of what came with DLC packs, I only get cars I intend to use and race. At the end of race when it's credits or cars usually I take the credits unless something pops up I really think I want to race with.
- 13,166
- Seattle-ish
You're thinking of game development as a zero sum operation. "If they put in more cars, then there will be fewer people to work on adding other content or eradicating bugs." It's like people who were worried that adding suits to FM7 was taking away from adding cars. It doesn't work that way. T10 will hire as many people as they need to model and develop cars. They will also hire as many people as they need to model race tracks. And as many people as they need to code the game and eliminate bugs. And as many people as they need to develop other things like, yes, race suits and other peripheral assets.
HyperSpeeder
(Banned)
- 954
- Brazil
I'm split on this. If you start cutting cars you'll end up with mostly the excessively popular cars like Hondas and such cars. On the other hand I'm sure T10 would appreciate having an easier time making the physics and details consistent across every car.
The new Cayman GT4 is a child of Esaki's tenure and I'm really happy with how it drives and sounds, even out of the box. Reminded me of why I fell in love with this game in the first place.
- 14,436
- Los Angeles, CA
- Lma_robot
- lImaRobotl
I'm not so sure they work on Physics on a car to car basis. That wouldn't make much sense in my opinion.
- 27,387
- Toronto
- NewAesthetic
- SlipZtrEm
Like @Populuxe Cowboy said, this isn't a zero-sum situation. More cars doesn't mean more bugs; more bugs means more bugs.
If I had to guess, this next generation will kick off with larger car rosters from most of the established racing franchises. GT and Forza both are obviously building with the next gen in mind, and the Pro/One X made that easier to do compared to the last switchover. I'm unsure about Slighty Mad but would assume it's the same there, since it's always built PCARS with the PC in mind.
One of Forza's big selling points is the most diverse car list in the genre. Chopping that down for "moar motorsports" isn't necessary: FM8 can improve on the actual racing experience while maintaining a diverse, fascinating lineup of cars across history. That's especially true if the assets are already up to snuff: the only thing standing in the way of their inclusion in the next game is licensing.
Look at GTS: the vast majority of the content released post-launch isn't in line with the strict class-based multiplayer setup, because only a fraction of the playerbase bothers with that. If FM8 mirrors that part in particular, it's missing the lesson, and sacrificing one of the franchise's continued strengths in the genre.
I imagine what @HyperSpeeder means isn't so much that Esaki & Co are introducing different physics engines for each car, but rather that he's taking a different, more detail-oriented approach to making each new car work within the existing physics engine.
I haven't driven the new car yet, but I'm curious. I love the first-gen Clubsport in GTS, and I wonder how this one will drive. There are still a handful of issues with FM7's physics engine — the threshold of lateral grip being chief IMO — but the CS could fall in the sweet spot.
- 14,436
- Los Angeles, CA
- Lma_robot
- lImaRobotl
I don’t know for sure, really. What I’d imagine is that they have physics calculations already in place as a whole and each vehicle is implemented around one system. Maybe working around the information given by each car like weight distribution, weight, drivetype, and power
What you’re saying doesn’t sound like it’d be wrong either though - maybe it’s split between different drivetrain set-ups individually.
That does make more sense. Basically what I think Raceboy77 did with the base tunes for the vehicles in game IIRC, just a lot more in depth with the actual engine?
- 687
- Canada
I believe Turn10 have confirmed before, that they essentially have a physics simulation they can feed the car's performance numbers and specs into, that will then spit out a rough performance and handling model for the in-game car. At that point, they test it and potentially "hand tune" it a bit more based on what feels right, since a) that physics engine won't be perfect, and b) a lot of the cars in the game don't HAVE some or all of those numbers to feed into the engine (especially a lot of the old-ass cars), so it becomes more artistry than hard math in some cases.
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