Forza Motorsport General Discussion Thread

[SimTourist]

You're complaining about the quality of the trees on the reveal trailers of an in-development game. Setting aside the fact what you're saying is ludicrous - this is not a bad-looking game and you are hunting for things to complain about - the way the trees look isn't indicative of the quality of the gameplay loop. Here's a revolutionary idea: How about waiting for it to release and saving your judgment until then? The lowest investment you have to make is a Game Pass subscription...

That doesn't make sense, gameplay loop... It's a racer, the gameplay loop has been the same for 40 years. I didn't say it was a bad looking game, but it doesn't look like a next-gen exclusive game to me.

 

[SU_Tempest]

That doesn't make sense, gameplay loop... It's a racer, the gameplay loop has been the same for 40 years. I didn't say it was a bad looking game, but it doesn't look like a next-gen exclusive game to me.

Is Need For Speed Unbound equivalent to Gran Turismo 7, Assetto Corsa Competizione, and Forza Horizon 5 in your eyes? All four of them are "racers." You're into sim-racers, your previous posts suggest as much. You should know damn well every racing game plays differently, structures and organizes its content differently, and incentivizes you to race for different reasons. I was under the impression the way FM2023 structures its racing is the whole point and the core focus of why it's gonna be different (solely compared to FM7, let alone the competition).

Or do you sincerely not understand it needs more than racing to make a good racing game? Because in that case, yeah, I could see why you're obsessed with the graphics; if every racer has the same gameplay loop in your eyes, then every game can only have different shades of eye candy. That makes things simple, neat... and very wrong.

 

[UKMikey]

I didn't say it was a bad looking game, but it doesn't look like a next-gen exclusive game to me.

I'd love to see your reasoning on this. Could you perhaps provide some comparative screenshots or videos that compare the upcoming game with the previous one which show not enough has changed so we know what you're complaining about or should we just take your word for this as an expert?

 

[SimTourist]

Is Need For Speed Unbound equivalent to Gran Turismo 7, Assetto Corsa Competizione, and Forza Horizon 5 in your eyes? All four of them are "racers." You're into sim-racers, your previous posts suggest as much. You should know damn well every racing game plays differently, structures and organizes its content differently, and incentivizes you to race for different reasons. I was under the impression the way FM2023 structures its racing is the whole point and the core focus of why it's gonna be different (solely compared to FM7, let alone the competition).

Or do you sincerely not understand it needs more than racing to make a good racing game? Because in that case, yeah, I could see why you're obsessed with the graphics; if every racer has the same gameplay loop in your eyes, then every game can only have different shades of eye candy. That makes things simple, neat... and very wrong.

Well, the gameplay loop is impossible to judge from videos until the game is in your hands, but promotional material uses graphics to engage players and motivate them to try the game and therefore we can judge the graphics to make a decision.

 

[UKMikey]

Well, the gameplay loop is impossible to judge from videos until the game is in your hands, but promotional material uses graphics to engage players and motivate them to try the game and therefore we can judge the graphics to make a decision.

I thought they did an entire video on the Builders Cup detailing how the gameplay loop works. So far there seem to be some changes from the previous game which involve driving cars stock for longer to build up experience at lower levels.

 

[SU_Tempest]

Well, the gameplay loop is impossible to judge from videos until the game is in your hands, but promotional material uses graphics to engage players and motivate them to try the game and therefore we can judge the graphics to make a decision.

There's a saying along the lines of "just because you can, doesn't mean you should."

Yes indeed. It's impossible to judge a product you're supposed to interact with accurately until you have it in your hands. The point of average promotional material is to sell you on it with the most surface-level elements they can; you know, like the graphics. While that's the point, it's a really archaic way to decide if the game is for you or not, especially when we have all those alternative sources of information... like, as @UKMikey pointed out, Turn 10's own video materials, the GamePass subscription that costs, what, 1/6, 1/7 of full price to try it yourself directly, or good old fashioned waiting for it to release and watching reviews and opinions from content creators or forum posts of people you care about.

You have all those options at your disposal to be the most informed consumer you can, all you have to do is use them. We don't have to make purchasing decisions based on what the back of the box says anymore.

 

[PJTierney]

Videogames.

 

[skazz]

I do agree that Forza has always had its own visual style. Prior to HDR it was never able to get close to the level of Gran Turismo's lighting model, for example.

For me, HDR changed that, along with FH4/FH5. Particularly FH5 has a very decent lighting model in conjunction with using HDR very effectively, and to me it looks excellent (on my HDR screens, better than SDR YouTube clips can tell you).

The preview videos of FM2023 have been very variable. Some (particularly the bits where the player isn't in control of the car) look great, whereas other shots (often while driving) have lacked the lighting model quality of FH5 and looked a bit plastic, more like Forza's older visual style.

We'll only find out once we have FM2023 on our own HDR screens how much progress they have actually made to go from FM7 visuals to something beyond FH5 (or whatever their goal is).

 

[R55NA]

How are the graphics insignificant? Every other feature they're touting could be and has been done on Xbox One and even Xbox 360 in other games. Let's be honest Forza has always been an easy accessible racer that attracted people with graphics, easy handling and social features, for serious simracing it has never been in the conversation.

Not sure why people are piling onto you like this.

Remember when we had the "reveal" of the game, with what felt like an hour in-depth video showing all of the graphical improvements to Maple Valley, showing time of day changes, the "vibrant" party scene on the infield, high resolution textures on the floor, the so called damage improvements, and how the grime builds up to the side of the vehicles.

Graphics are very important to Turn10 it seems, its not "insignificant" - and they better knock it out of the park come launch day considering how many years have been spent on this game. Horizon titles blow me away with its world, graphics, and environmental effects.

 

[UKMikey]

Not sure why people are piling onto you like this.

A cursory read of the replies would provide you with plenty of info regarding the reasons for those people's objections.

Remember when we had the "reveal" of the game, with what felt like an hour in-depth video showing all of the graphical improvements to Maple Valley, showing time of day changes, the "vibrant" party scene on the infield, high resolution textures on the floor, the so called damage improvements, and how the grime builds up to the side of the vehicles.

Graphics are very important to Turn10 it seems, its not "insignificant" - and they better knock it out of the park come launch day considering how many years have been spent on this game. Horizon titles blow me away with its world, graphics, and environmental effects.

I wouldn't be unhappy with an improvement to the graphics that looks merely incremental over FM7 provided it's a much better game to play. FH5 certainly looks better to me than FH4 but the most important change to me was how much better the driving feels on high end cars.

 

[Stang616]

The more i see the more i lose intrests in new forza motorsport, for me their just nothing that really makes me hyped about it, their is always more questions than answers, and lack of gameplay is really concerning

Why are even still here? It's quite obvious you don't like Forza. There's no need for your constant bashing.

 

[skazz]

I wouldn't be unhappy with an improvement to the graphics that looks merely incremental over FM7 provided it's a much better game to play. FH5 certainly looks better to me than FH4 but the most important change to me was how much better the driving feels on high end cars.

That's a very true statement. FH5 only changed the car handling a small amount, but somehow it makes road cars in the A, S1 and even lower S2 class a whole lot more pleasant to drive. I can finally enjoy driving supercars in Horizon at last.

If I compare to FM7, there I found the most reasonable to drive were B-A class sports cars, hatchbacks and saloons along with 4WD or at least front engined RWD Super GT and supercars. Anything MR or RR has terrible lift-off oversteer. Almost anything with heavy aero (like the GT cars) is a shambles with far too little grip. So if FM2023 removed the terrible oversteer and gets aero behaviour more realistic, along with improving grip on rougher surfaces, it will go a huge way to making everything in the A, S and R classes a lot more pleasant to drive. Which will make the game a lot better.

 

[SU_Tempest]

That's a very true statement. FH5 only changed the car handling a small amount, but somehow it makes road cars in the A, S1 and even lower S2 class a whole lot more pleasant to drive. I can finally enjoy driving supercars in Horizon at last.

If I compare to FM7, there I found the most reasonable to drive were B-A class sports cars, hatchbacks and saloons along with 4WD or at least front engined RWD Super GT and supercars. Anything MR or RR has terrible lift-off oversteer. Almost anything with heavy aero (like the GT cars) is a shambles with far too little grip. So if FM2023 removed the terrible oversteer and gets aero behaviour more realistic, along with improving grip on rougher surfaces, it will go a huge way to making everything in the A, S and R classes a lot more pleasant to drive. Which will make the game a lot better.

Even if AWD continues to have an inherent advantage, that being instant launch and the lack of races without a rolling start, going from FH4 to FH5 was night and day in terms of RWD and FWD viability. Gone were the days of Racing V12 AWD swapping everything. The arrival of Launch Control since the Rally Adventure DLC has also been a net benefit, helping combat wheelspin off the line. It was a few incremental changes in gameplay but it mattered each time. If we keep improving from this going forward with Motorsport, then I only see good things for the driving model.

Semi-related, but I foresee Spec races doing a lot of good for overall variety and keeping things sane and balanced, as well.

 

[SloGrumpyDad]

Even if AWD continues to have an inherent advantage, that being instant launch and the lack of races without a rolling start, going from FH4 to FH5 was night and day in terms of RWD and FWD viability. Gone were the days of Racing V12 AWD swapping everything. The arrival of Launch Control since the Rally Adventure DLC has also been a net benefit, helping combat wheelspin off the line. It was a few incremental changes in gameplay but it mattered each time. If we keep improving from this going forward with Motorsport, then I only see good things for the driving model.

Semi-related, but I foresee Spec races doing a lot of good for overall variety and keeping things sane and balanced, as well.

Ummm, AWD hasn’t been an advantage since FM3. Every single META and its competitors in FM7 are RWD.

 

[nukleabomb]

Ummm, AWD hasn’t been an advantage since FM3. Every single META and its competitors in FM7 are RWD.

the comment was about FH5

 

[Bogie 19th]

How are the graphics insignificant?

They aren't. And they look awesome.

 

[TokoTurismo]

I wouldn't be unhappy with an improvement to the graphics that looks merely incremental over FM7 provided it's a much better game to play. FH5 certainly looks better to me than FH4 but the most important change to me was how much better the driving feels on high end cars.

Agreed, that is what's the most important to me as well. I do love how natural the new FM looks, but I also want to drive great, too. If it can destroy FM7 in the physics department (I mean, look up the previous Forza Monthly where Chris spoke about the cars going over apexes in both games) I'd be playing it for years!

 

[The_Greaser]

If all you do is complain about the tiniest, most insignificant details, why are you on this thread

This. I would say ignore him.

 

[syphe]

With how active the forzamotorsport twitter account was last week, anyone else feeling this way now? (maybe non-US timezone peeps)

 

[Ande3200]

The problem I think VR will always have is that it will never be clear as modern flat screens, I haven't tried PSVR2 to see how foveated rendering fixes the issue, but I have a Quest2 at home atm, and still spend most of my time playing on an ultra-wide simply because the clarity is so much better. Maybe eventually it will reach a point of vanishing returns in terms of clarity, at which point VR will be killer, but until then, the clarity sacrifice will always be real

I dont agree quite with all your points, a flat screen Will look better no doubt but vr will give you experince like feeling like you are,there witch cant be experinced on the flatscreen, you have more comtrol with movements and how you can look inside the game, the point with vr is not to have as good graphics its to get you the experince you cant get on the flatscreen, and thats why almost all sim racing titles feature vr, i have not tried meta quest by the way, but o own psvr2 and have tried a few other headsets, and it looks quite good for the most part, some games better than others

 

[syphe]

I dont agree quite with all your points, a flat screen Will look better no doubt but vr will give you experince like feeling like you are,there witch cant be experinced on the flatscreen, you have more comtrol with movements and how you can look inside the game, the point with vr is not to have as good graphics its to get you the experince you cant get on the flatscreen, and thats why almost all sim racing titles feature vr

Oh I fully agree, it's why I only mentioned clarity, immersion is on a whole other level, it's just I still tend to leave my VR headset off unless I'm in a certain mood (heat of summer certainly doesn't help), so at least for me, VR hasn't replaced flat screen gaming for simracing.

 

[nukleabomb]

With how active the forzamotorsport twitter account was last week, anyone else feeling this way now? (maybe non-US timezone peeps)

View attachment 1280049

Gamescom I think is next week, so expect them to keep the momentum.

Only time I see them slowing down, is when starfield launches, as any info would be buried under starfield news.

 

[GBalao888]

With how active the forzamotorsport twitter account was last week, anyone else feeling this way now? (maybe non-US timezone peeps)

View attachment 1280049

Also had this feeling. To think we got 65 cars in one week, plus four track reveals... I bet they're taking the weekends off to start another week full of hype.

Anyway, we have 16 tracks confirmed, four more to go. As for cars, we have 232 currently revealed, so 270-350 to go.

 

[Bogie 19th]

To put their physics claims into context, the refresh rate of 360 cycles per second, and 8 points of contact for the tires, how does that compare to say iRacing, PC2, etc? I tried to Google the answers, but I don't see other games discussing that other than ACC has 5 points of contact.

 

[A Night Away]

How are the graphics insignificant? Every other feature they're touting could be and has been done on Xbox One and even Xbox 360 in other games. Let's be honest Forza has always been an easy accessible racer that attracted people with graphics, easy handling and social features, for serious simracing it has never been in the conversation.

No one cares about graphics to the level that you are hyper-analyzing. Seriously, just quit man.

 

[UKMikey]

With how active the forzamotorsport twitter account was last week, anyone else feeling this way now? (maybe non-US timezone peeps)

I kinda hope we get a teaser video for every track and some of the new cars. Show off a range of times of day (how about some night racing?) and weather conditions.

No one cares about graphics to the level that you are hyper-analyzing. Seriously, just quit man.

C'mon, what would those one or two posters that upvote every negative comment on the game, no matter how small, do if they didn't have something they can add a like to on the thread...? I know this is a discussion forum which encompasses a range of opinions, but there's a difference between balanced, detailed, constructive criticism and "this is gonna suck so hard, source: trustmebro".

 

[skazz]

To put their physics claims into context, the refresh rate of 360 cycles per second, and 8 points of contact for the tires, how does that compare to say iRacing, PC2, etc? I tried to Google the answers, but I don't see other games discussing that other than ACC has 5 points of contact.

I think most of them are at 300 Hz or so now. But as always, it's not so much the processing speed as what you do with the data - tyre models between the big simulators have always varied quite a bit due to how they use their data. Although in recent years they are all converging a bit more on grippier models (iRacing used to be known as IceRacing due to their tyre model's quirks but that has more or less gone away in recent updates).

 

[Bogie 19th]

I think most of them are at 300 Hz or so now. But as always, it's not so much the processing speed as what you do with the data - tyre models between the big simulators have always varied quite a bit due to how they use their data. Although in recent years they are all converging a bit more on grippier models (iRacing used to be known as IceRacing due to their tyre model's quirks but that has more or less gone away in recent updates).

Thanks Skazz, it's not something I have ever looked at or researched. But Chris was banging that drum so it kind of intrigued me. It's either a big thing for Forza or it's just more PR. But it sounds like it's a legit improvement.

 

[A Night Away]

C'mon, what would those one or two posters that upvote every negative comment on the game, no matter how small, do if they didn't have something they can add a like to on the thread...? I know this is a discussion forum but there's a difference between balanced, detailed, constructive criticism and "this is gonna suck so hard, source: trustmebro".

My issue is that there's reasonable criticisms about the structure of the game, and then there is endlessly quibbling about graphics that basically boils down to demanding more when the law of diminishing returns is incredibly evident when it comes to anything above 1080p/HD graphics.

 

[Jump_Ace]

I pre-ordered the Premium edition cause thats what I do(?). Their version of Sophy sounds intriguing to me. Supposedly their FFB is supposed to be up to par this time around, lets hope so!


Jerome