Forza Motorsport General Discussion Thread

[nukleabomb]

FM2023 would logically be built on FH5's lighting model, rather than FM7's very much older one. But in the showcase videos so far only video of a car without the driver in control reminds me of FH5 lighting. The track racing videos look closer to FM7 than FH5, which is weird.

Fh5 in its most common ToD, weather, in gameplay is sunny and slightly cloudy. That coupled with the dry yellow tinge (in SDR) doesn't look as good as fh4's lush green, deep blue sky look. But the second it turns into anything but afternoon (which was the longest part of the day/night cycle until very recently) it looks fabulous.

Here are all ToD in FH5's Photo mode in clear weather:

The sunrise and the sunset are the perfected versions of the nismo gt500 nurburgring gp demo from fm7.:

Suzuka FM7:

Oh and HDR absolutely changes FH5's boring afternoon to a colorful vacation.



I have a feeling that FM is going to be the same. There is a very yellow filter (that might be accurate in some places, at some particular time), that is prominent is some footage and not present in the rest. We will have to wait and see.

 

[syphe]

I'm not too worried about the graphics side of things, having fired up FM7 recently on my PC, it still looks absolutely fantastic, and in fact better than most other race sims I have, so even if this is incrementally improved, as long as the fundamentals are better I'll be happy

 

[skazz]

I'm not too worried about the graphics side of things, having fired up FM7 recently on my PC, it still looks absolutely fantastic, and in fact better than most other race sims I have, so even if this is incrementally improved, as long as the fundamentals are better I'll be happy

If you run FM7 at 4k with HDR, then disable dynamic scaling, increase to 150% resolution scaling and all other settings on Ultra it looks very slick on PC. There is almost no aliasing, the models all look really good and if you tune HDR well you can get most times of day looking excellent... With a few clear exceptions.

But the PC version with those settings is a LOT prettier than the Xbox One X tuned 4k@60 FM7 we get on the Series X, which is clearly using less than half the available capacity of the console and lacks enough antialiasing or some of the fine detail.


Still, FM7 had 2d trees and quite low ground texture quality around the track despite having very busy locations and mostly proper 4k textures on them. The trees and ground texture are getting properly upgraded as we've seen in all of the track visuals so far. The only question is whether they can achieve this while giving us an FH5 level dynamic lighting model.

 

[AttackDickie]

Personally, I've never played an ugly Forza game in my life. But one day I see someone say it's too cartoony and the next it's too washed out.

 

[FordGTGuy]

That's the weird thing for me. FM2023 demos during gameplay look more like FM7 (and T10's slightly cartoony slightly plastic style from before the HDR era) than FH5's very impressive lighting... Which is just weird.

I still think they will do better by the time the final game arrives, because it doesn't make sense to me for them to stick with a lighting model which is inferior to Horizon 5.

Are we really back to the "cars look like plastic" thing again?

Are we going to have a thread about how car paint isn't metal and how waxing a car works?

 

[turk1993]

You guys are tripping if you believe that FM7 looked anything close to FM2023. Just because they showed most of the footage in early morning lighting with orange hue doesn't mean it doesn't have realistic day time lighting. The environment detail, trees and foliage, dynamic lighting, rt reflections, new shaders and higher res textures are generational better than FM7 (which looked really good already).

 

[skazz]

Are we really back to the "cars look like plastic" thing again?

Are we going to have a thread about how car paint isn't metal and how waxing a car works?

No no, absolutely not.

It's just that T10 has always had some issues with their lighting model in certain times of day, and the result is that reflections look a little off and this gives cars a strange plastic appearance. This was admittedly much worse in the FM3/FM4 era before HDR arrived. FM7 looks a LOT better already.

I just am hoping that they can nail all times of day this iteration, like FH5 did, and give us cars which look like proper cars no matter the time of day.

 

[AttackDickie]

^^Let's just hope the Porsche is being lapped 😬🤣

 

[Bogie 19th]

You guys are tripping if you believe that FM7 looked anything close to FM2023. Just because they showed most of the footage in early morning lighting with orange hue doesn't mean it doesn't have realistic day time lighting. The environment detail, trees and foliage, dynamic lighting, rt reflections, new shaders and higher res textures are generational better than FM7 (which looked really good already).

I would make love to those gifs if I could!

 

[GT PRO-AM]

Are we really back to the "cars look like plastic" thing again?

^^Let's just hope the Porsche is being lapped 😬🤣

Or on completely worn/wrong tyres.

 

[PJTierney]

Your here because it is your home 😀
You were here long before your CM job.

Bane.meme but it's PJ being a forum junkie.

And because Forza Horizon is one of his main sources of income.

Fun fact, I nearly got hired as Forza Horizon 4 community manager. Went pretty far down the interview process before Playground went with somebody else (who did an amazing job by the way).

Me failing in that process directly lead to me ending up at Codemasters as I wasn't going to let an opportunity slip again.

 

[turk1993]

No no, absolutely not.

It's just that T10 has always had some issues with their lighting model in certain times of day, and the result is that reflections look a little off and this gives cars a strange plastic appearance. This was admittedly much worse in the FM3/FM4 era before HDR arrived. FM7 looks a LOT better already.

I just am hoping that they can nail all times of day this iteration, like FH5 did, and give us cars which look like proper cars no matter the time of day.

This is true, the lighting on some tracks with different tod was lacking in FM7. Sometimes it looked really good while sometimes it was soo bad.

The good

The bad

 

[UKMikey]

Fun fact, I nearly got hired as Forza Horizon 4 community manager. Went pretty far down the interview process before Playground went with somebody else (who did an amazing job by the way).

Me failing in that process directly lead to me ending up at Codemasters as I wasn't going to let an opportunity slip again.

Your route map project for FH3 (I think) was pretty spectacular looking from a design pov. I'm sorry you didn't get the job.

 

[PJTierney]

Your route map project for FH3 (I think) was pretty spectacular looking from a design pov. I'm sorry you didn't get the job.

That map got me the first interview at least

I know Playground at one point had it framed in the studio, and Turn 10 had one in their streaming room in the Mechberg era.

Work-wise, I ended up on DiRT Rally 2.0, and as much as I love me some Forza, rally is more suited to my skillsets and interests

 

[Beebo]

For some reason, the Le Mans posts have been deleted on their socials and they have set the reveal video to private on Youtube.

 

[UKMikey]

For some reason, the Le Mans posts have been deleted on their socials and they have set the reveal video to private on Youtube.View attachment 1280645

This is a lot of trouble to go to just to write Daytona in that chicane.

Seriously though, I hope nothing's up with the track reveal.

 

[Beezer215]

For some reason, the Le Mans posts have been deleted on their socials and they have set the reveal video to private on Youtube.View attachment 1280645

I think it's because if you watch the video closely, there was the hidden outline of a prominent wiener in the bushes. You know, like Disney used to do. It would have turned into a PR nightmare.

 

[SU_Tempest]

No need to get so defensive.

But also no need to attempt to take the topic "graphics" off the table just because it doesn´t suit you.

Graphics or tech in general have always been huge talking points from both the makers and the players of racing games - no surprise it´s being brought up here.

Forza Motosport does not exist in a vacuum.
The bar has been raised while T10 were in development(hell?) and so far it looks like they can´t clear it.

For a game that was in development for 6 years and was supposed to be a complete reboot it sure enough looks just like a Forza Motosport game - oddly enough one that came out a few years ago.

We´ll see how it turns out once we all get our hands on it.

Right now all we can talk about are the videos they release and they do not look great.
Especially considering they are probably cherry picking them to make the game look as good as possible.

Don´t want to ruin anyones excitement, but please understand other peoples disappointment.

I don't feel sorry in the slightest for anyone who has decided the game doesn't look good and essentially predisposed themselves into disappointment just based on the looks of a bunch of pre-release trailers. If you're disappointed just based on that, please understand there's more than a likely possibility that's a you problem.

As you said it yourself, FM does not exist in a vacuum. That includes everything not related to graphics or visual fidelity. And as you also said it yourself, we will, in fact, see how it turns out when it releases.

 

[Bilu]

The video is available on the IGN channel. ¯\( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)/¯

 

[GlamFM]

I don't feel sorry in the slightest for anyone who has decided the game doesn't look good and essentially predisposed themselves into disappointment just based on the looks of a bunch of pre-release trailers. If you're disappointed just based on that, please understand there's more than a likely possibility that's a you problem.

As you said it yourself, FM does not exist in a vacuum. That includes everything not related to graphics or visual fidelity. And as you also said it yourself, we will, in fact, see how it turns out when it releases.

That’s a bunch of nonsense. I’m disappointed how it looks based on how it looks. Simple as that.

I expected more. So I guess that’s on me.
But they raised those expectations to be fair.

 

[Beebo]

So is FM8 (Yeah, still calling it FM8) one of those games where you need an HDR display for it to look good and not bland?

 

[skazz]

That’s a bunch of nonsense. I’m disappointed how it looks based on how it looks. Simple as that.

I expected more. So I guess that’s on me.
But they raised those expectations to be fair.

Surely 2 months before launch is a bit early to be making these judgements?
Especially off compressed 1080p mood videos with silly fog....

I recall FH5 even changing their target resolution on the Series S from 1080p to 1440p between the demo build for the press and the final launch, and that was just a couple of weeks...

So is FM8 (Yeah, still calling it FM8) one of those games where you need an HDR display for it to look good and not bland?

Probably. FH5 benefits hugely from HDR, although admittedly that's partially due to all those bright Mexican colours.
What HDR brings is not just dynamic range of lighting (from very dark to very bright) but also a lot more detail in things like bright vibrant paint textures where SDR struggles to show things clearly. When driving it makes things like the sky, light reflections on cars, even tarmac a lot more interesting to look at.

A good HDR display is pretty much compulsory for Xbox/PS5 (since they support HDR in almost all modern 4k games now). And it's highly recommended for PC, too, since more and more games support HDR as time goes by. Thankfully many modern PC monitors are now DisplayHDR certified, which is what you need. You can find 1440p 144+Hz screens with 500nits+ and DisplayHDR400 certification which is a good compromise for race games now and into the future - ACC, FH4, FH5, FM7, FM2023 all support HDR on PC.

Now "only" DisplayHDR 400 is not amazing, but it's a lot better than nothing.

 

[GlamFM]

Surely 2 months before launch is a bit early to be making these judgements?
Especially off compressed 1080p mood videos with silly fog....

I recall FH5 even changing their target resolution on the Series S from 1080p to 1440p between the demo build for the press and the final launch, and that was just a couple of weeks...

I mean yeah. I’m still gonna get it and my opinion can change.

But these are the trailers they are putting out right now. And this is my opinion on them.

Regardless of the resolution I can see weaknesses inherent to the franchise I thought this reboot would get rid of.

This still looks like Forza Motosport. For better and for worse.

 

[SU_Tempest]

That’s a bunch of nonsense. I’m disappointed how it looks based on how it looks. Simple as that.

I expected more. So I guess that’s on me.
But they raised those expectations to be fair.

I'm sorry, but you raised your own expectations. It is up to you — you in the sense of, "the informed consumer", not you personally — not to let yourself get swept up in the marketing speak. Discerning what's a promise and what's fluff can be hard, I get that, especially with phrasing like "built from the ground up" or "return to form." Or my personal favorite, "it just works," especially when applied to a game that broke regularly for months.

But I can't stress the importance of not taking everything you see at face value and waiting until you actually play it. Yes, it looks like Motorsport, and yes, FM7 has been a disappointment only racing games with a number ending in 7 only seem to know... I also get that. Plenty of posts describing how much FM7 have burned them.

But as I've opined on here before, it is kind of in T10's best interests if it turns out better than that, and the only way to know for sure is to give it a shot and play it yourself. Don't stress out too much on how many years it took to develop or the way these trailers look or whatever it is they showcase or talk about before release. What's gonna come out is what we're gonna get, all the same, whether they spent two years or six on it.

I realize I've been saying Heinz: 57 Varieties of Please Wait and See for a while now, but I genuinely believe this is the only approach that makes sense here. I'm not turning a blind eye to everything they say or promise, but I get the impression Turn 10 has to rebuild a lot of goodwill and they know it. So, it's less "I hope it's good" and more "It better be good" when it comes out.

 

[GlamFM]

I'm sorry, but you raised your own expectations. It is up to you — you in the sense of, "the informed consumer", not you personally — not to let yourself get swept up in the marketing speak. Discerning what's a promise and what's fluff can be hard, I get that, especially with phrasing like "built from the ground up" or "return to form." Or my personal favorite, "it just works," especially when applied to a game that broke regularly for months.

But I can't stress the importance of not taking everything you see at face value and waiting until you actually play it. Yes, it looks like Motorsport, and yes, FM7 has been a disappointment only racing games with a number ending in 7 only seem to know... I also get that. Plenty of posts describing how much FM7 have burned them.

But as I've opined on here before, it is kind of in T10's best interests if it turns out better than that, and the only way to know for sure is to give it a shot and play it yourself. Don't stress out too much on how many years it took to develop or the way these trailers look or whatever it is they showcase or talk about before release. What's gonna come out is what we're gonna get, all the same, whether they spent two years or six on it.

I realize I've been saying Heinz: 57 Varieties of Please Wait and See for a while now, but I genuinely believe this is the only approach that makes sense here. I'm not turning a blind eye to everything they say or promise, but I get the impression Turn 10 has to rebuild a lot of goodwill and they know it. So, it's less "I hope it's good" and more "It better be good" when it comes out.

I made it half way through the first paragraph.

I’m sorry but no.


I shouldn’t be disappointed because I should not have listend to a world they said?

What kind of bs is that? Why do you get so defensive?

They raised those expectations. They, not me.

EDIT: apologies for my tone. Reading it back just now I realize I sound like an ***.

I hope FM is amazing when it comes out and makes me eat my words.

Good night.

 

[SuperSportX]

Different category, wouldn’t be in that list?

The CLK-GTR was in the same class as the listed vehicles, it may still appear later though so I am still hoping it shows up.

Also missing from that class are the R390, Cerbera Speed 12 and the Elise GT1, though I am mainly looking forward to the GTR ofc.

I can't complain too much though as the car list is really good so far and all of the classes have enough similar classed cars to make for interesting races, I just really hope custom races return and if so we can choose AI cars for each AI.

 

[PJTierney]

Hopefully the Alpine F1 car is in, it might actually be good to drive with the updated physics.

 

[McLaren]

Does the game look like a Forza Motorsport game? Yes. For better or worse, though, of course T10 is going to stay consistent with their style.

Does the game, "look just like a Forza Motosport game - oddly enough one that came out a few years ago"? Absolutely not. FM7 is a good looking game, but even on a Series X, it does not run anywhere like these gifs provided below.

You guys are tripping if you believe that FM7 looked anything close to FM2023. Just because they showed most of the footage in early morning lighting with orange hue doesn't mean it doesn't have realistic day time lighting. The environment detail, trees and foliage, dynamic lighting, rt reflections, new shaders and higher res textures are generational better than FM7 (which looked really good already).

 

[SU_Tempest]

Hopefully the Alpine F1 car is in, it might actually be good to drive with the updated physics.

I apologize if that's been said before, but based on the car list, how many different disciplines or racing categories will be represented, so far?

EDIT: apologies for my tone. Reading it back just now I realize I sound like an ***.

I hope FM is amazing when it comes out and makes me eat my words.

Good night.

It's all good mate, take care. Just because I'm vocal doesn't mean I wanted to upset you, sorry if I came across that way.

 

[Jezza819]

You guys are tripping if you believe that FM7 looked anything close to FM2023. Just because they showed most of the footage in early morning lighting with orange hue doesn't mean it doesn't have realistic day time lighting. The environment detail, trees and foliage, dynamic lighting, rt reflections, new shaders and higher res textures are generational better than FM7 (which looked really good already).

The track lighting does look very good. I do like how the shorter light stand on the right side of the track partially lights up the tree as well.