Forza Motorsport General Discussion Thread

  • Thread starter Terronium-12
  • 15,552 comments
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Beebo
Oh I hope the Griffith isn't the only returning TVR, also three Huracan variants?
Click to expand...
The other TVRs are in different categories, wouldn't be in this list.

Also the 3 Huracans are well chosen... Just think of them as the equivalent of 2 generations of Ferraris (so these 3 represent the 488 GTB, 488 Pista and F8 Tributo equivalents from Lambo).

FH5 now has 6 of them (in bold just released in a DLC car pack):
  • LP 610-4 Coupe
  • LP 640-4 Performante
  • LP 640-4 EVO
  • LP 640-2 STO
  • LP 640-2 Tecnica
  • Huracan Super Trofeo Evo
Having driven them all comparatively, I'd say that we can skip the base Coupe without regret because the 4WD Evo is a great starting point. The 4WD lightened Performante has some interesting aero and earned a Nurburgring record a few years ago. The STO is an awesome new 2WD sporty Huracan which is quite mental, taking quite a lot from the Super Trofeo one.

So yeah, the Tecnica (being 2WD but not as lightened or as much aero as the STO) and the Coupe are probably OK to leave out from FM2023. But I'm really pleased to have been able to play around with all of them over the years in FH5.
 
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I'll share yet again my good old spreadsheet, for those new to it, it contains every car featured in every Forza ever, as well as some highly requested cars from some years ago in the late Forzacentral.

There is a legend inside, but anyway, white are requested cars never seen before, yellow are cars seen in previous Forzas but not yet seen/announced for the new FM, and green are officially confirmed.

LINK
 
skazz
I saw a rumor on the official forums (before running away in disgust) that FM2023 might have 2 modes:
  • Quality: includes RT while driving
  • Performance: no RT while driving

Not sure of the impact of this setting on hitting and sustaining 4k@60 or on things like aliasing and pop-in (which usually take a hit in performance modes to stay at locked frame rates). Since I don’t believe they are aiming for less than 60fps locked in either mode?

Maybe the RT mode uses FSR up scaling whereas non-RT mode uses their own resolution scaling tech?
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FSR2 is just a method of upscaling a lower internal resolution, if they were to have two modes with lower-than-4K internal res they'd likely just use the same solution for both.

A few months ago, they said they wouldn't offer a 120FPS mode on console so this performance mode without RT would likely be targetting native 4K 60FPS imo, with the RT mode's resolution being dynamic as seen already and upscaled to 4K via whatever method they deem best.

With how much emphasis they've made about on-track RT, I'd be surprised if these modes are actually a thing though.
 
skazz
I saw a rumor on the official forums (before running away in disgust) that FM2023 might have 2 modes:
  • Quality: includes RT while driving
  • Performance: no RT while driving

Not sure of the impact of this setting on hitting and sustaining 4k@60 or on things like aliasing and pop-in (which usually take a hit in performance modes to stay at locked frame rates). Since I don’t believe they are aiming for less than 60fps locked in either mode?

Maybe the RT mode uses FSR up scaling whereas non-RT mode uses their own resolution scaling tech?
Click to expand...

My understanding is there will be 2 modes

RT with a dynamic resolution

And

No RT with a fixed 4K resolution
 
FordGTGuy
Would love to know your definition of "photorealistic".

It's a completely subjective term as no game is truly photorealistic and the standards for such a thing constantly change.
Click to expand...
Anything that looks real. Maybe anything that a photograpgher/videographer could put on display and people would believe was their work rather than something from a game is a bit of a stretch in 2023, but I wouldn't say the standards change too much. I don't think anyone was realistically taking about photorealistic games until quite recently, but I could be wrong.

I expect most audiences since September '21 would say that the viral Ride 4 'footage' took the crown for racing games with this, 11M views (presumably everyone who plays racing games has watched this, and a major share of gamers want to see photorealism which seems to be the direction we're all headed) and over 10k comments, something FM8's marketing team should probably reflect upon/aspire to achieve;



Obviously it was in a select mode, and the rest of the actual game on UE4 didn't quite make it something they could market as photorealistic and I'm not even sure if Ride 5 coming next week on UE5 (I think) is marketed like this, not really seeing much footage from it yet. Guess it'll in fact be the first UE5 circuit based racing game new titles can benchmark against, maybe Milestone can add some four wheeled options with a return to actual cars for us, I do miss Screamer, and some of their ventures into rally games.



Linking to the Brands Hatch here section as it has a lot of variety, but again I wouldn't say it was photorealistic especially at the the point it begins talking about an in-race photographer where it goes all weirdly blurry but not like a camera focus bokeh effect. To use actual video footage around the UK and then jump into game graphics really emphasises how far from reality it is.


I also find quite a lot of GT7 replay mode videos to look quite photorealistic to me, but it's not on a system I use so can't say for sure, but for a March '22 game would probably be what people expect in-game from a racing game calling itself photorealistic, if we get this on Xbox I'll be blown away;




Some of the Rennsport beta ESL events on UE5 also looked pretty much like watching racing on TV to me when I had it playing on a living room TV setup, not perfect but pretty good so far, not sure when/if it's coming to consoles;




The latest popular phototrealistic viral footage from 2023 which will be the new benchmark that audiences will expect from any dev using the term has to be Unrecord, 8.4M views, 14k comments;




Naturally, others attempt to claim photorealism when it's not really will keep happening, in AC, GTA 6 fakes from GTA V etc, and here's one from FH5 (400ish views) which I thought looked fairly decent as a game, almost movie-like for the motion blur effect but I had to reduce that for some sharpness to return. I'd be happy playing a FH5 but with 2023 graphics and more sim like personally, it's just the marketing I'm not taken in by. Even playing WRC9 which has average at best sometimes last-gen graphics I can still get immersed in it, perhaps because I can't focus on much more than the track right in front of me as it's so intense but Mexico was looking nice in it the other night - I've yet to play the rally DLC in FH5 to compare, but with the wheel support in WRC9, from 2020 I think it could take it, so if FM8 does like people say and just make a really great to play game not much of this graphics stuff will matter too much.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRY-nm2M3bk
Butzke
So many trailers are using this orange, "golden hour" lighting.
Its clearly the most flattering lighting they have in the game and minimizes the plastic look.
Click to expand...
Golden hour might actually highlight inaccuracies due to the need for side lighting, and extended shadows, but I'm sure a quick blue filter could cool the tones and inspect it vs normal daytime footage.
 
FordGTGuy
Auction house feels counter-intuitive to how the game will work.
Click to expand...
What if the cars you buy in Auction House already have XP and upgrades unlocked?

Say somebody buys a car, drives it for ages, maxes it out, then makes a profit on Auction.

In current games there’s nothing particularly unique about the cars you get in auctions, normally you’d strip the paint and tune, then download or make your own. It’s basically Autoshow with extra steps.
 
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whannel
Anything that looks real. Maybe anything that a photograpgher/videographer could put on display and people would believe was their work rather than something from a game is a bit of a stretch in 2023, but I wouldn't say the standards change too much. I don't think anyone was realistically taking about photorealistic games until quite recently, but I could be wrong.

I expect most audiences since September '21 would say that the viral Ride 4 'footage' took the crown for racing games with this, 11M views (presumably everyone who plays racing games has watched this, and a major share of gamers want to see photorealism which seems to be the direction we're all headed) and over 10k comments, something FM8's marketing team should probably reflect upon/aspire to achieve;



Obviously it was in a select mode, and the rest of the actual game on UE4 didn't quite make it something they could market as photorealistic and I'm not even sure if Ride 5 coming next week on UE5 (I think) is marketed like this, not really seeing much footage from it yet. Guess it'll in fact be the first UE5 circuit based racing game new titles can benchmark against, maybe Milestone can add some four wheeled options with a return to actual cars for us, I do miss Screamer, and some of their ventures into rally games.



Linking to the Brands Hatch here section as it has a lot of variety, but again I wouldn't say it was photorealistic especially at the the point it begins talking about an in-race photographer where it goes all weirdly blurry but not like a camera focus bokeh effect. To use actual video footage around the UK and then jump into game graphics really emphasises how far from reality it is.


I also find quite a lot of GT7 replay mode videos to look quite photorealistic to me, but it's not on a system I use so can't say for sure, but for a March '22 game would probably be what people expect in-game from a racing game calling itself photorealistic, if we get this on Xbox I'll be blown away;




Some of the Rennsport beta ESL events on UE5 also looked pretty much like watching racing on TV to me when I had it playing on a living room TV setup, not perfect but pretty good so far, not sure when/if it's coming to consoles;




The latest popular phototrealistic viral footage from 2023 which will be the new benchmark that audiences will expect from any dev using the term has to be Unrecord, 8.4M views, 14k comments;




Naturally, others attempt to claim photorealism when it's not really will keep happening, in AC, GTA 6 fakes from GTA V etc, and here's one from FH5 (400ish views) which I thought looked fairly decent as a game, almost movie-like for the motion blur effect but I had to reduce that for some sharpness to return. I'd be happy playing a FH5 but with 2023 graphics and more sim like personally, it's just the marketing I'm not taken in by. Even playing WRC9 which has average at best sometimes last-gen graphics I can still get immersed in it, perhaps because I can't focus on much more than the track right in front of me as it's so intense but Mexico was looking nice in it the other night - I've yet to play the rally DLC in FH5 to compare, but with the wheel support in WRC9, from 2020 I think it could take it, so if FM8 does like people say and just make a really great to play game not much of this graphics stuff will matter too much.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRY-nm2M3bk

Golden hour might actually highlight inaccuracies due to the need for side lighting, and extended shadows, but I'm sure a quick blue filter could cool the tones and inspect it vs normal daytime footage.
Click to expand...

I had this conversation 100 times by now. People think real life is all muted colors and grey weather. Its easier to look photorealistic with cloudy grey weather than sunset or day time because of how light reacts to the environment. Shadows and bounce lighting are the main key here to achieve that goal. Even FM5 looked photorealistic on Xbox One in overcast cloudy weather and that launched in 2013. And the reason why those games look photorealistic is also because of the camera work and realistic motion shake which sells it as realistic.
forza5_silverstone_02_wm.jpg

latest




People kept saying the same thing for Forza Horizon 5 how it looked cartoony or not photorealistic because of how colorfull it is.
m0WQAz3.jpg

9VDZbLi.jpg

RevKZS4.jpg

XacDvUU.jpg
 
JPinto
I'll share yet again my good old spreadsheet, for those new to it, it contains every car featured in every Forza ever, as well as some highly requested cars from some years ago in the late Forzacentral.

There is a legend inside, but anyway, white are requested cars never seen before, yellow are cars seen in previous Forzas but not yet seen/announced for the new FM, and green are officially confirmed.

LINK
Click to expand...
I'm not sure why someone would request an American Underslung 642 (for example). Are there any still in existence for Turn 10 to model?

[EDIT] Looks like there are and now I understand why they'd want one:

97055ae347ded6eabc0af61d3cfa6f97.jpg
 
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whannel
Anything that looks real. Maybe anything that a photograpgher/videographer could put on display and people would believe was their work rather than something from a game is a bit of a stretch in 2023, but I wouldn't say the standards change too much. I don't think anyone was realistically taking about photorealistic games until quite recently, but I could be wrong.
Click to expand...
To be honest, until I see some of these videos in 4k, ideally HDR enabled and also as uncompressed as possible it's all very hard to tell. I watched all of your videos but didn't see anything which looks that close to photorealism. Ride has it's moments (but so does FH5 in similar lighting), whereas Rennsport just looked like low res LODs and poor textures both on cars and on trackside - my own ACC on my PC in ultra settings with HDR enabled at 4k looks considerably better.

The main problem is that 1080p does a good job of hiding aliasing and other artefacts in general blurriness. So you can't really tell what it would look like on a good 4k HDR screen from such source material.


Based on these, I am sure that a good 4k image in HDR on my own screen can be considerably more photorealistic than any of the compressed YouTube SDR 1080p stuff you have used as examples. And I say this deliberately, because that blurriness of 1080p is hiding a lot of crap.

This is also why I don't see the point in watching compressed 1080p YouTube videos and drawing any conclusions about a future game. It won't tell you how aliased it is under motion on the native screen, or how high resolution those textures actually are.
 
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skazz
To be honest, until I see some of these videos in 4k, ideally HDR enabled and also as uncompressed as possible it's all very hard to tell. I watched all of your videos but didn't see anything which looks that close to photorealism. Ride has it's moments (but so does FH5 in similar lighting), whereas Rennsport just looked like low res LODs and poor textures both on cars and on trackside - my own ACC on my PC in ultra settings with HDR enabled at 4k looks considerably better.

The main problem is that 1080p does a good job of hiding aliasing and other artefacts in general blurriness. So you can't really tell what it would look like on a good 4k HDR screen from such source material.


Based on these, I am sure that a good 4k image in HDR on my own screen can be considerably more photorealistic than any of the compressed YouTube SDR 1080p stuff you have used as examples. And I say this deliberately, because that blurriness of 1080p is hiding a lot of crap.

This is also why I don't see the point in watching compressed 1080p YouTube videos and drawing any conclusions about a future game. It won't tell you how aliased it is under motion on the native screen, or how high resolution those textures actually are.
Click to expand...
Yup, and thats the reason why most people uses gifs to make those games look more real than they are. It just hides all the flaws and makes it easier to achieve "photorealistic look".

Even Forza Motorsport 5 on Xbox One looks realistic
N88l-s.gif

ZKFCvZ.gif
 
NotThePrez
Hey @PJTierney, some of those corner names seem familiar...
Click to expand...
Wait, a semi-dumb meme from 10 years ago has turned into the official corner names? 😅

I need to send a message to the old club 😄

What I bet happened was the video editor typed “Maple Valley Track Map” into google, saw the map drawn for the club and used it as reference.
 
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NotThePrez
When I saw "Syrup," I actually shouted "No 🤬ing way," much to the confusion and surprise of one of my buddies.

That's a pretty awesome nod from the devs.
Click to expand...
It gets better, if you pause the video at the right moment you can see “Corner of Death” is there too.

I imagine there’s a disconnect here between the track team and who they have making the videos, as the corner mastery system in-game will have different/correct corner names.
 
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PJTierney
It gets better, if you pause the video at the right moment you can see “Corner of Death” is there too.

I imagine there’s a disconnect here between the track team and who they have making the videos, as the corner mastery system in-game will have different/correct corner names.
Click to expand...
I did notice that, too. It'd be pretty awesome if that stays when the game releases.

Personally speaking, even if it's all a coincidence, If I was the creator I'd be gloating about the time my semi-dumb meme made it into a AAA racing game (or at least its marketing) whenever I have an appropriate chance to.
 
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PJTierney
It gets better, if you pause the video at the right moment you can see “Corner of Death” is there too.

I imagine there’s a disconnect here between the track team and who they have making the videos, as the corner mastery system in-game will have different/correct corner names.
Click to expand...
They're all there except the straight and Blind Left:

1692140359561.png
 
UKMikey
I guess Syrup is so named because it's a smooth turn (that won't pancake the car).
Click to expand...
I won't try to sugar this... or jam the thread with posts... but it's Maple Syrup obviously 🙄
Everyone knows that (although in my case that's only because @PJTierney explained it in a previous post, as it had gone completely over my head :lol: )
 
sirjim73
I won't try to sugar this... or jam the thread with posts... but it's Maple Syrup obviously 🙄
Everyone knows that (although in my case that's only because @PJTierney explained it in a previous post, as it had gone completely over my head :lol: )
Click to expand...
Yeah, I know, but why that turn in particular? That's my sticky point, erm sticking point.
 
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FordGTGuy
Auction house feels counter-intuitive to how the game will work.
Click to expand...
I feel the game wont have Auction house and we will have car sale system instead
PJTierney
What I bet happened was the video editor typed “Maple Valley Track Map” into google, saw the map drawn for the club and used it as reference.
Click to expand...
You havent posted it here few days ago? maybe someone in T10 happens to read this forum 🤔 hmmmmmm
 
whannel
Anything that looks real.
Click to expand...
I'm going to have to stop you there bud.

This literally means nothing as it's in the eyes of the beholder.

Ask a person 20 years ago about their standard of photorealism in gaming and anyone in the modern age would laugh at it.

Ask a person 20 years from now and they will laugh at our standards of photorealism.

Forza, by your definition, is photorealistic.



Literally every video you posted can be nitpicked for flaws; none are perfect as it's quite impossible to perfectly replicate reality as of this moment.
 
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