Forza Motorsport General Discussion Thread

[Northstar]

I imagine it's quite difficult to get hold of 550 cars worth of scans and models.

I'd imagine they would also rather put those resources (i.e. money) towards completely new cars rather than fixing issues only 1% of players notice and a smaller fraction are actually bothered by.

 

[MagpieRacer]

Yeah 550, but most of the complaints are about at most 50 cars. Which shouldn't be hard to do for some of these models. For a Ferrari 550 Maranello, perhaps that would be hard. But I'm finding it hard to believe that the modelling firm working on this can't get a hold of something like a SW20 Toyota MR-2. Or seek out Subaru for the Impreza 22B they still have somewhere, I've seen the thing myself.

Maybe they have, maybe Subaru said no, maybe a clean SW20 is hard to find where the modellers are based. Pixel Mafia are based in the Philippines, so if they are fully in control of modelling from source to product, it's probably very unlikely they can get things like SW20s, R32s, 22b etc in clean stock condition.

I also doubt that T10 are flying modellers to the cars. There may be a chance that T10 are getting source material but even if that is the case, you still need to find what you need, scan it, photo it, send it and it will then be at the hands of someone else's interpretation.

The Evo is a good example of this, people compare it to Gran Turismos and claim it's wrong, when the reality is it's just a different version, different body kit etc. The 2 cars are simply different source material.

 

[Mae Borowski]

401 (410 with DLC, and 415 with the five cars that were previously cut). 100-150 to go.

I'm predicting 550 normal cars at launch, and given the VIP DLC has Forza editions, there will likely be a handful of them.

Huh. I must have two missing off my list then

 

[RandomCarGuy17]

Maybe they have, maybe Subaru said no, maybe a clean SW20 is hard to find where the modellers are based. Pixel Mafia are based in the Philippines, so if they are fully in control of modelling from source to product, it's probably very unlikely they can get things like SW20s, R32s, 22b etc in clean stock condition.

What about Glassegg though? Apple Slipper mentioned T10 outsourcing to that studio though and they had plenty of time to find models as such.

 

[nukleabomb]

What about Glassegg though?

Glass egg is in Vietnam.


Off the top of my head, T10 has gone to scan the entire Ginetta lineup at their factory
()

an FL5 Civic Type R in Jan 23 ()

and a Nismo R35 GT-R in 2020 (iirc)
()

Nissan Pulsar GTi R in 2018:

Venturi Atlantique in 2018:

So they do go out/send people out to scan cars themselves. Afaik lots of the tracks also are scanned by T10 themselves (especially fantasy tracks).

 

[skazz]

I find it interesting that almost all of these legacy models are Japanese. I wonder if it's hard for US/UK teams and their 3rd party modellers to get hold of these old Japanese cars as a result?

 

[MagpieRacer]

What about Glassegg though? Apple Slipper mentioned T10 outsourcing to that studio though and they had plenty of time to find models as such.

Again I don't think Vietnam is a hot bed of performance cars of any sort. Time is irrelevant if you can't get them.

 

[RandomCarGuy17]

Glass egg is in Vietnam.

Again I don't think Vietnam is a hot bed of performance cars of any sort. Time is irrelevant if you can't get them.

Oh, I didn't know that. I kept thinking glassegg was in Europe for some reason, my mistake.

So they do go out/send people out to scan cars themselves. Afaik lots of the tracks also are scanned by T10 themselves (especially fantasy tracks).

Okay then and I suppose there's higher priority in scanning new cars over old ones.

It makes sense, but that still annoys me to a huge extent. I rather if t10 they spent some of that time seeking the legacy cars than just throwing new car models in.

 

[MagpieRacer]

Oh, I didn't know that. I kept thinking glassegg was in Europe for some reason, my mistake.




Okay then and I suppose there's higher priority in scanning new cars over old ones.

It makes sense, but that still annoys me to a huge extent. I rather if t10 they spent some of that time seeking the legacy cars than just throwing new car models.

It's not the time spend that will be the problem really, it's the money. Is it worth sending someone halfway round the world on a multi day trip just to get a slightly more accurate bumper scan that only a fraction of people will even notice and even less care about.

I'm the opposite to you, I'd very easily and happily take new car models over the legacy stuff, very very easily.

 

[Beebo]

If the Sagaris isn't in the game it's gonna be a big hit to my usual cycle of play, that's been the first car I've purchased in almost every Forza game since FM4. I'm very worried that it's just too obscure of a car for them to want to keep it in the game

 

[RandomCarGuy17]

Is it worth sending someone halfway round the world on a multi day trip just to get a slightly more accurate bumper scan that only a fraction of people will even notice and even less care about.

Depending on how bad the model is, yes it's worth it. And more may care about it than you think.

I'm the opposite to you, I'd very easily and happily take new car models over the legacy stuff, very very easily.

Yeah, I could tell with your prior replies.

 

[nukleabomb]

Oh, I didn't know that. I kept thinking glassegg was in Europe for some reason, my mistake.




Okay then and I suppose there's higher priority in scanning new cars over old ones.

It makes sense, but that still annoys me to a huge extent. I rather if t10 they spent some of that time seeking the legacy cars than just throwing new car models.

A fun alternative would be to just add variants of the "inaccurate" cars, just like they did with the Spirit R.
Nismo r32, Mspec r34, 400r r33, Autech s15 etc. Others probably know more about cooler variants than me. I'm sure they can share the aero parts with existing cars, if the body itself is modelled correctly.

It is also more likely that they can get their hands on a car to scan, if it is in the hands of the manufacturer (whether it is museums, storage or showrooms).

 

[FordGTGuy]

Really now, are you saying that you're a car modeller for Turn 10?

and if it's a case of the measurements, then why the hell are they using the same old measurements instead of actually doing a proper rescan?

I work on naval vessels; I measure and plot offsets and 3D model them. I also lay lines for high precision work to be accomplished. Do not ask me to expand on who I work for or some kind of proof as I am not allowed to tell you.

Where did I say that I work for Turn 10?


I'm telling you that from a professional standpoint, if you are asked to keep remaking a model based on the same offsets then you will end up with the same flaws.

 

[RandomCarGuy17]

I work on naval vessels; I measure and plot offsets and 3D model them. I also lay lines for high precision work to be accomplished. Do not ask me to expand on who I work for or some kind of proof as I am not allowed to tell you.

Where did I say that I work for Turn 10?

You didn't say anything about that, but your comments sometimes come off to me as defensive of Turn 10 even if that isn't your intention. Also, you keep saying it like you know how they operate things despite not working for said company.

I'm telling you that from a professional standpoint, if you are asked to keep remaking a model based on the same offsets then you will end up with the same flaws.

But how do you know that's how Turn 10 operates? They could easily be doing what I was thinking and are taking their older car models and heavily editing them for newer hardware. That's something that's been done before by other studios including Polyphony Digital.

It is also more likely that they can get their hands on a car to scan, if it is in the hands of the manufacturer (whether it is museums, storage or showrooms).

That's the thing though, the cars I'm thinking of can be found in museums and in storage. You can find a SW20 MR2 in a Toyota museum here in the US or in Japan easily. The same can be said for the 22B Impreza or at least one GC8 Impreza.

 

[pclark06]

It's interesting to see the car list reveals because I keep wondering what a "reduced" roster might look like at the end. And as far as I can tell, the focus on cars with some connection to motorsport or at least top-of-the-line homologation-friendly performance models feels like a strong compromise. I know a lot of people might complain about the lack of SUVs or city cars or other models that are a bigger part of Forza Motorsport tradition than actual motorsport tradition, and fair enough, I get that it's fun to see what happens when you give a Honda Fit 300 bhp. But if it means we get more focus on cars with an actual racing pedigrees, T10 could continue to unearth some pretty interesting cult favorites from the ranks of history that we don't often see in racing games. Build the game's content model partially around the idea that you can introduce players to cars like the NSU Prinz 1000 TT or the BTCC Nissan Primera GT or the Marcos LM600 and we might really have something. Hell, they can even get weird with it: after the introduction of the F1 also-ran BRM P201 as part of that introductory DLC package, all bets are pretty much off when it comes to obscurity and legacy.

I'm guessing some of the "reduced car list" will also include the lack of NASCAR and Indycar stuff due to the Motorsport Games having the exclusive license and then going bankrupt stuff going on right now, which, frankly, added a bunch of duplicate cars to the car list as well.

Also I'm a yes vote on adding a Primera into the game.

 

[nukleabomb]

That's the thing though, the cars I'm thinking of can be found in museums and in storage.

The returns on adding a new variant is significantly higher than just updating existing modes, especially when most of the players can't tell the problematic models from the good ones.

It would benefit t10 to polish the materials/textures/paint than to remodel a car, which tnh i expected them to do. There was a post by turk1993 that showed the small improvements made to a 458:

I noticed some nice improvements on the Ferrari 458 in FH5 compared to FH4, now im curious which cars they have improved.

here's some pics of T10 scanning ginettas at the factory:

3 new items by Sam Go

photos.google.com

 

[UKMikey]

Depending on how bad the model is, yes it's worth it. And more may care about it than you think.

Too bad that they don't seem to feel like letting Turn 10 know about it via their official suggestion channel if it's so important to them.

Put me in the camp that would rather the developer prioritise the use of their resources to improve general gameplay features that would benefit all players over aesthetic considerations that don't make the game play better but would make a vocal minority of users less irritated.

 

[RandomCarGuy17]

Too bad that they don't seem to feel like letting Turn 10 know about it via their official suggestion channel if it's so important to them.

Story of my life. I made my vote on the suggestions channel.

Put me in the camp that would rather the developer prioritise the use of their resources to improve general gameplay features that would benefit all players over aestheic considerations that don't make the game play better but would make a vocal minority of users less irritated.

Okay...

The returns on adding a new variant is significantly higher than just updating existing modes, especially when most of the players can't tell the problematic models from the good ones.

I know it would and it still annoys me. I have to look at a badly proportioned R32 in Forza because of this factor. Most players won't care and I shouldn't. Probably upon playing FM8, I'm going to have too much fun perhaps to even notice.

But I still do care to some extent.

 

[05XR8]

Glass egg is in Vietnam.


Off the top of my head, T10 has gone to scan the entire Ginetta lineup at their factory
()
View attachment 1284707


an FL5 Civic Type R in Jan 23 ()
View attachment 1284706

and a Nismo R35 GT-R in 2020 (iirc)
()
View attachment 1284709

Nissan Pulsar GTi R in 2018:

View attachment 1284710
Venturi Atlantique in 2018:
View attachment 1284711

Almost as if T10 are trolling the GT2 car list.
If FM comes with the Primera, seeing that Pulsar being scannned, it’ll be the game of the year for me.

 

[meganinja]

3 things

1-

I wonder if it's hard for US/UK teams and their 3rd party modellers to get hold of these old Japanese cars as a result?

problems with logistics problally, some models can be found in US but most would need go to asia or specifcally Japan


2- I think that we should consider non-DLC models, i think the over 500 models that we will see will be in the base version of the game, i think that would be better we get a count for both non-DLC only and Non+DLC

3- There has people spreading that this article made last year somehow confirms that Turn10 had promised that models would be rebult, THAT IS A LIE
It was based on a assumption of a misguided reporter that confused that demage paint model that was talked during E3 2022 showcase with the actual car models

For some reason there has people assuming that was Turn 10 that said that, NO , IT WASNT TURN 10

here is the full queote without no lines or queotes removed, take this at your own conclusions

 

[deththrasher]

Generally this is due to the source material used to create the models.

I know because my professional job is to take measurements and reconstruct them in 3D. If you get the same measurements, you will repeat the same errors.

Yes, this is what the problem is, they obviously aren't using exact models from an OG Xbox game, but the new models with higher polys are just as wonky/inaccurate as those were all those years ago. and it's much worse now because with the music higher fidelity/resolution they stick out like a sore thumb, especially against the more recent properly scanned models

 

[FordGTGuy]

Yes, this is what the problem is, they obviously aren't using exact models from an OG Xbox game, but the new models with higher polys are just as wonky/inaccurate as those were all those years ago. and it's much worse now because with the music higher fidelity/resolution they stick out like a sore thumb, especially against the more recent properly scanned models

They really need to just completely start from scratch with these older models.

 

[ScottPuss20]

For those who say that re-scans of old cars aren't worth it, you're kidding yourself. People will notice if the models are improved, even if they don't know exactly what's changed. They will just look "right" compared to the old models.

 

[MagpieRacer]

For those who say that re-scans of old cars aren't worth it, you're kidding yourself. People will notice if the models are improved, even if they don't know exactly what's changed. They will just look "right" compared to the old models.

A minority of people will notice. The same minority complaining about them. It simply isn't worth the investment of money or time to do it for the <1% who care.

And in cases like the Evo, it doesn't need a rescan, it needs people to understand that it's accurate to the model it was based from.

 

[T0MMY3688]

Considering the amount of Huracan they got, I think just license and scan a different variant of the badly modelled cars will be nice too.

I don't mind having Evo 6 TME that is nicely modelled along side the current Evo 6.

 

[MagpieRacer]

Considering the amount of Huracan they got, I think just license and scan a different variant of the badly modelled cars will be nice too.

I don't mind having Evo 6 TME that is nicely modelled along side the current Evo 6.

Or even just body kit options to create different versions. Either way, it's still money and time that could, and should, be better spent elsewhere.

Also, the track reveals aren't doing them any favours.

 

[nukleabomb]

For those who say that re-scans of old cars aren't worth it, you're kidding yourself. People will notice if the models are improved, even if they don't know exactly what's changed. They will just look "right" compared to the old models.

You vastly overestimate the amount of people who will notice. These are the things one can only notice if they're extremely familiar with the car, which most are obviously not.
A simple shader + texture upgrade will do the same, without having to source, scan and model the same cars for the game.

I fully support adding variants of these models with new scans. If I read the car list right, they've replaced the e92 with the m3 gts and the f80 gen m4 is replaced by the m4 gts.
Just like the grand sports being replaced by the z06/zr1 or the standard Lamborghini models being replaced by the Sv and superleggera models.

They could've done this with the fd rx7 (since they have the spirit r), but they have chosen not to.

The worst part is the trailers, which have terrible graphical inconsistencies that make even good models look bad.

 

[SestoScudo]

I gotta better idea.

Time to scrap photomode.

Its a racing game not national geographic.

 

[Butzke]

I gotta better idea.

Time to scrap photomode.

Its a racing game not national geographic.

Thats a brilliant idea. Antagonize the car enthusiasts, what could go wrong?

 

[Mae Borowski]

I gotta better idea.

Time to scrap photomode.

Its a racing game not national geographic.

Genius! While we're at it, scrap all the road cars. This is Forza Motorsport, not Horizon. Racing cars only from now on