Forza Motorsport General Discussion Thread

[meganinja]

I’m not saying they rushed it; MS has typically been hands off with their studios (a blessing and a curse in some instances), but here I feel as though they couldn’t afford to not have their premier racing game out within the first three years of the new system’s life. I mean if GT can, why can’t Forza? So the end result was a game bereft of the level of polish it’d normally get and design decisions that were probably um-and-aah’d about but were now set in stone with no real time to alter them till after the hard cutoff they were given.

I think is this, but in half part, the another fact is that nowadays, Xbox priorities seems to be RPG and Shooters for the most hardcore gamers™ , Of Those, Starfield was the only selected for this holidays with some coming early/middle next year
They certainly was given more time to polish and make those ready for launch, and since they cant have just a single game in holidays, they decided that, since is a series with low appeal with hardcore gamers™ , they decided that T10 and Forza Motorsport should get the bug chop

Maybe this was their “plan B” for if “plan A” proved too controversial. I would not surprised if any AAA game has fallbacks for when their in-game economies and progression systems are too generous/aggressive to hit their expected retention metrics.

Now it seems Level 50 is only for the Achievement hunters, completionists and extreme build experiments (like getting a D car to R). Seems ok to me but I haven’t played since the update.

The biggest annoyance now would be the price of upgrades. Racing slicks cost 1,700 car points. I think the next step to improving the progression would be reducing the prices of all upgrades by half, now that things are unlocked a little earlier.

The problem is that the CarXP was the thing that had bring the most and biggest progression Forza had in years (probally since they decided cut the progression of FH4 for something akin to live service with the now-infamous playlist), if they remove it, they will need change the game career mode for something better, something that is as much rewarding the CarXP was for me and for more people.

Remove it will make the game purpose-less like FH5 had became mostly, and i am sure people will start complaing (again) that Forza has no sort of type of progression at all.

I had the feel that this is just temporary Fix to remove the CarXP altogether, but they are still thinking in what to do with the Career and the car XP, since i told before, they need something so the game doesnt get empty

I was optimistic about the CarXP system, and I still enjoy it as a change of pace from the old cycle of getting a new car and immediately maxing it out. But once it turned out that career mode doesn't let you actually spend a lot of time with your car before pushing you towards a series where you have to drive a different one, I'm glad it was tweaked at least a bit.

This why also I think that, instead of people ask to drop CarXP, I think that players should ask for more career events
Something like FM3/FM4, more random events the better, also more stuffs that bring more feeling of progression like Mission Events and stuffs similar to GT´s Licences but without require you to race it to get into deeper events (I honestly i HATED this part of GT even when i was little in late 2000s)

 

[DK]

I couldn't help but laugh at a CTD I had last night. I was looking for liveries for the open-top MX-5 NA, typed in "gt", and the game froze as I clicked "Search".

Searching for "gran" worked fine though, but the only result was the "D-Rights" livery from the GT2 licence tests.

 

[MightyL]

Stupid ******* broken game. Yesterday I did the first of the featured career events. Did them all, completed the event. It asks me at the end, do you want to exit or on to the next series. I was like, not now honey, I will do the next one another time. Today I start the game, enter the featured career events to see the first event is back to start. It didn't save. Have to do all 5 races again . I complete them. Now I think let's be smarter, instead of choosing exit, I choose on to the next event because who knows maybe that was the reason. Which brings me to the dealership to buy a car for the next series. which I do. When buying the car, the screen for saving the new car to the garage freezes. Have to reboot the game. To find out: the first featured series is again at 0. Forget it, I am not going to do the same ****ing thing 3 times. Again throwing the game through the window. That's every single day something different goes terribly wrong.

 

[breeminator]

Remove it will make the game purpose-less like FH5 had became mostly, and i am sure people will start complaing (again) that Forza has no sort of type of progression at all.

I'm sure SOME people will make that complaint. The problem comes when game devs assume that "people" want something that a tiny minority has asked for. There are extremely popular multiplayer games where people just play the competitive game modes, or casual versions of the same game modes, so it's clear that huge numbers of people are happy to play a game where improving at those modes is the only sort of progression they need.

For me, car XP is not any sort of progression, it's a roadblock to progression. It's just something you have to tediously get out of the way before you can do something useful with your car. For example, right now I want to use the '08 Viper for the open 800 tour series. I have a tune from a leaderboard I want to apply, which after the update only needs level 12 to unlock the parts, but it needs 4975 car points, which I'd guess is level 30 or something. So before I can progress, i.e. do the tour series, or try to set some times on rivals leaderboards, I have to make the game drive itself around a track AFK for 2 hours so I can put the tune on the car and start playing the game.

The game has approx 216k combinations of car, class and track for rivals alone, though not every car will be able to be put in every class, but all the same, there's a huge amount for people to do with that alone. And some people will be perfectly content to do nothing but back to back multiplayer racing. There's also plenty of replay value in the tour series - you can do each one again with a different car, or with a harder AI difficulty, or starting from lower down the grid each race, and if you can win every race starting from the back on the hardest difficulty, you can give yourself a PI disadvantage to make it even harder.

According to Steam achievements, only 9% of players have even got a single car to level 50 so far. 0.3% of players have got 10 cars to level 50. "Progression" of this type is not of interest to the vast majority of players.

 

[meganinja]

Just watched this video by Roflwaffle (i wanted @ his nick here but i dont know what one exactly, anyways Hi Rofl)
He talks and makes comparasions with GTs issues with reusing of models vs what Forza does nowadays, lifting some intresting points like the question of quality vs quantity, the fact that GT may be reusing models even nowadays, and how GT and Forza´s devs lack of transparency has not done a good job for both

 

[UKMikey]

For me, car XP is not any sort of progression, it's a roadblock to progression. It's just something you have to tediously get out of the way before you can do something useful with your car.

I think that's why @meganinja said the game needs more career events. Otherwise there's little for single players to do that is useful, and less incentive to level up cars unless you want to take them online and race against other players which not everyone wants to do.

Just watched this video by Roflwaffle (i wanted @ his nick here but i dont know what one exactly, anyways Hi Rofl)

Put @ in front of his name. @Roflwaffle.

 

[MroczMR]

Just watched this video by Roflwaffle (i wanted @ his nick here but i dont know what one exactly, anyways Hi Rofl)
He talks and makes comparasions with GTs issues with reusing of models vs what Forza does nowadays, lifting some intresting points like the question of quality vs quantity, the fact that GT may be reusing models even nowadays, and how GT and Forza´s devs lack of transparency has not done a good job for both

To be honest standard models in GZt5 and 6 were pretty transparent. There was clear information that those cars were ported from GT4.

 

[INEEDNAWZZZ]

True, but it's also pretty transparent with certain models in Forza as well; the biggest issue in GT5 and 6's standards was their texture work and scale in some instances, but for the most part they were passable. Forza's issue is with some of their legacy content is that the basic modelling for a lot of cars was inaccurate from the beginning (but good enough for the era). In the years since however, they've done little beyond adding extra polys to those old models and all the modern lighting and material details in the latest games only serve to show just how out of date they are. The Silvia is still has the same pinched rear end, the R34's wheels are still not right, the SW20 is all kinds of messed up.

They have occasionally gone back and done extensive reworks (the 22B) or, bizarrely, done patch work on select models but not the full thing (Golf R32). Of course, it goes without saying that GT had a lot more issues with standards due to just how many there were, but the ones that Forza has do stand out by a mile. You only have to look at the reception they got showing the E30 in the Showcase trailer earlier this year, or the Evo VI in one of the track reveals to see what I mean.

 

[meganinja]

I'm sure SOME people will make that complaint. The problem comes when game devs assume that "people" want something that a tiny minority has asked for.

I could spend all days listening to all people that i know that had complained about the lack of progression in Forza, from Friends even famous youtubers

Spoiler: watch top video first

(even the video I had above does a gag about FH5 lack of it)

, this is certainly a constant complain in Forza nowadays


They are certainly trying to find the ballance between sandbox vs progression, and i think that the CarXP is a step towards it but not a perfect step, i wonder what they will try next

Put @ in front of his name

I really wish we had a Heart reaction on forum, THANK YOU

 

[breeminator]

I think that's why @meganinja said the game needs more career events. Otherwise there's little for single players to do that is useful, and less incentive to level up cars unless you want to take them online and race against other players which not everyone wants to do.Put @ in front of his name. @Roflwaffle.

There's a limit to just how much variety there can be with the tour series, but clearly it needs extending from where it is right now, though preferably not connected to any functional content that forces you to complete them. I personally found the FM7 career staggeringly tedious. They could perhaps make the car level system opt-in, like The Crew Motorfest has done with the transfer of cars from The Crew 2.

I could spend all days listening to all people that i know that had complained about the lack of progression in Forza

That isn't the same thing as the solution they are looking for being the car level system. 100% of reviews of FM I've watched on YouTube have disliked the car level system. If any significant number of people loved it as a thing in its own right, they'd be getting car after car to level 50, but just 0.3% of players have done that for 10 cars.

 

[meganinja]

Otherwise there's little for single players to do that is useful, and less incentive to level up cars unless you want to take them online and race against other players which not everyone wants to do.

Yea, they need give some sort of progression for people that wont play the online or else they wont wish to keep playing the game
My theory is that T10 is already working on it, in something to replace the actual Career Mode and the Car XP into something, the nerf is just the temporary Fix

I personally found the FM7 career staggeringly tedious.

This why they prefered try in another way instead of repeat
I also prefer the Car XP than whatever FM7 was (i did 100% on FM7)

That isn't the same thing as the solution they are looking for being the car level system. 100% of reviews of FM I've watched on YouTube have disliked the car level system.

Majority of people seems that disliked, but I saw a good bunch that at minimum liked the concept and the idea, they were not the majority but it had a few good numbers, maybe 2-to-5 or something like that

And i am not even mentioning the people that want more progression, but dont liked the CarXP idea

 

[syphe]

I think the overall sentiment when the system was announced was that it was a good idea, but at the time the car levels to unlock were not known, it was the knowledge that certain upgrades were unlocked well into your level progression that put everyone off, so certainly pulling much of it back is welcome. I'm guessing things will be continually tweaked, I am surprised they changed it so quickly, thought this patch was just going to be stability issues and others, so good to see they are listening to the community

 

[AttackDickie]

Now if they would only bring back the option to increase laps for career mode races.
I would always champion Forza over GT for its career mode - I wouldn't now.

 

[shoemaker]

Am I missing something? Where is the open lobby where you can just pick a random multiplayer race that people set up themselves

 

[ClydeYellow]

Am I missing something? Where is the open lobby where you can just pick a random multiplayer race that people set up themselves

Gone since the days of Forza Motorsport 5.

 

[mynameis66]

Question for anybody that might know.When I went to the second race in the builders cup introduction,I tried to change to another car but it wouldnt let me.The only way to use a different car was to restart the buildwrs cup again.Is this a bug or do we use the same car for these 3 races?Not an issue just wondered.

 

[syphe]

Just jumped into a touring car race during my lunch break, apart from a couple of dirty drivers in the back, there was a good 8 drivers in the front of the pack having a good clean race, ended up swapping positions with someone then he overshot the pits and went wide, I followed him but managed to get back on track, and managed to nurse my tires for the following 2 laps without them dying of death, ended up P4, so good first impression of the matchmaking fixes.

 

[AttackDickie]

Question for anybody that might know.When I went to the second race in the builders cup introduction,I tried to change to another car but it wouldnt let me.The only way to use a different car was to restart the buildwrs cup again.Is this a bug or do we use the same car for these 3 races?Not an issue just wondered.

In FM7 I know you could change your car before each race in a series. So probably just another wonderful change by T10.

 

[shoemaker]

Where in multiplayer can i do longer(er) races ? Every race is really short.

 

[T0MMY3688]

Question for anybody that might know.When I went to the second race in the builders cup introduction,I tried to change to another car but it wouldnt let me.The only way to use a different car was to restart the buildwrs cup again.Is this a bug or do we use the same car for these 3 races?Not an issue just wondered.

It looks be by design, you pick a car and use the same car for a tour/championship.

I was looking for the same thing last night too, the Emira is quite slow for that tour and was hoping to buy a different car to complete it but notice I couldn't change it mid tour.

 

[Bogie 19th]

Where in multiplayer can i do longer(er) races ? Every race is really short.

During the Event Setup, choose the SETUP tab and then go to Event Format. You can change the length. You can do short, medium, long or custom.

 

[mynameis66]

It looks be by design, you pick a car and use the same car for a tour/championship.

I was looking for the same thing last night too, the Emira is quite slow for that tour and was hoping to buy a different car to complete it but notice I couldn't change it mid tour.

What i found odd was that you couldnt pick any B class car,only a certain few were eligible.I couldnt pick an R32 but i was able to pick an Amg A45,bit weird but im sure theres a reaxon for it.

 

[Confus]

Just watched this video by Roflwaffle (i wanted @ his nick here but i dont know what one exactly, anyways Hi Rofl)
He talks and makes comparasions with GTs issues with reusing of models vs what Forza does nowadays, lifting some intresting points like the question of quality vs quantity, the fact that GT may be reusing models even nowadays, and how GT and Forza´s devs lack of transparency has not done a good job for both

I'm totally fine if devs want to re-use older models, as long as those models are accurate. The issue with Forza is that they have been using very obviously inaccurate models for many years across multiple games. The NSX and S15 come to mind immediately. The same goes for the majority of aftermarket wheels you can buy in the game, which barely resemble what they're supposed to be.

 

[Jezza819]

When can you change tires in the challenge series post update? Because last night I tried to change for race 4, saw the updated PI index number, got the confirmation that parts had been installed, ran the race thinking I was on different tires but post race leaderboard still showed PI at the previous number. Now for race 5 the changes took place and the PI number was correct.

 

[Hasse 86]

Just watched this video by Roflwaffle (i wanted @ his nick here but i dont know what one exactly, anyways Hi Rofl)
He talks and makes comparasions with GTs issues with reusing of models vs what Forza does nowadays, lifting some intresting points like the question of quality vs quantity, the fact that GT may be reusing models even nowadays, and how GT and Forza´s devs lack of transparency has not done a good job for both

@Roflwaffle is one of my favourite Youtubers. Always puts a lot of effort into his videos. He isn't the annoying, adhd-esque, shouty type of content creator but rather someone who provides valid points, constructive criticism and good info. And although it seems like he is mainly a GT-fan he keeps the console-war-fan-boy-antics out of his videos. In my opinion he's a breath of fresh air, for sure.

I played Forza Motorsport for a few hours yesterday post-update. The game stability seems to be improved. I didn't experience a single crash on my XSX.

The upgrading system flows much better now and is less of a grind. My main complaint is that some upgrades are still very expensive. Everyone might not agree, but 1700 cxp for racing slicks seems quite steep to me.

Unfortunately I've heard from friends that some still have problems with the game freezing in the upgrade menu and then wipes the progression of a few races after a reboot. This update was a nice first step, but it seems like there's still a lot of work to be done.

 

[Symtex]

I think there is 2 fundamental groups playing this game and it's impossible to reconcile both. On one hand, you have the simracer crowd which all they want is all the car , all the track, all the parts available from the start and just do multiplayer lobby racing. They do not care about anything else. They won't ever touch the career mode.

On the other hand, you have the casual player that will play through the career and maybe dabble in multiplayer once in a while but his main focus is racing offline. If you are the later, the CarXP does not impeded you at all. It's well balance and you can compete against the AI perfectly fine. CarXP wasn't an issue for me until I tried to do Rivals and now I have to do 50+ laps or more before I can unlock all of the parts for the car I want to use on that leaderboard. So I understand why some hate it.

What is the solution ? Online career. Make your online profile completely different from your offline profile. Online, you can have all of the parts for upgrade. You don't have to level up your car. You just level your Drivers and get access to certain class of car as you progress through your career. Iracing kinda style.

 

[syphe]

Unfortunately I've heard from friends that some still have problems with the game freezing in the upgrade menu and then wipes the progression of a few races after a reboot. This update was a nice first step, but it seems like there's still a lot of work to be done.

Often with things like the upgrade bug, it's a bit like whack-a-mole, telemetry may give some indication of the majority of causes, and they have likely fixed part of it, but you only really know when it gets out in the wild, unless it's reliably reproducible.

Worse when the game isn't crashing, there may not be any errors being reported in the logs as people obviously have to force quit the game knstead. potentially the Devs have put some extra logging around the save progress screen here, and that may help them more quickly track down further issues in this spot.

 

[shoemaker]

Can’t believe i cant have a long race. No online multiplayer lobby’s, seriously what the hell. Surely everyone wants a lobby ?

 

[Veinz]

Can’t believe i cant have a long race. No online multiplayer lobby’s, seriously what the hell. Surely everyone wants a lobby ?

Getting rid of public custom lobbies was the stupidest decision they’ve ever made. It’s easily one of the most requested features over the past 10 years and they still won’t add it.

 

[RolexGTP]

Something is telling me they will add it back eventually through a big update. Dont ask me any details or how I came to that conclusion but im confident they will bring back custom public lobbies. Just a matter of patience