Forza Motorsport General Discussion Thread

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It always really irks me to see somebody chalk up the complaints about FM's car progression as "well they just want instant gratification these days". Personally I've played games that make me grind for things just fine, because their gameplay loop was fun!
I don't mind games having grinding for cosmetic items, it's the fact that you grind for functional items in GT and Forza that annoys me. With a cosmetic item, you just decide if you want it enough to do what it takes to get it. With functional items, the problem is you never know what will be meta in the future, so you're kind of forced to obtain every functional item, just in case, and that's pretty tedious. And whereas with cosmetics you can take or leave each individual item, if you don't grind for a functional item that becomes meta in the future, you might as well just give up playing the game, so I feel like it's a poor model for achieving player engagement in the long term. All of that is more applicable to the exclusive cars in Forza, the car level system at least allows you to unlock the functional items whenever you want, but it's still annoying to have to spend 2-3 hours on a car before you can even try it out properly, so I'm mainly only playing games these days where all functional items are always available to everyone with no grinding to unlock them. There's still plenty of delayed gratification in the "10k hours" element of getting good at any competitive game.
 
I stopped and started the game on the console and the suits unlocked first time.
Same here.What would be better,personal taste mind,proper legit sponsor logos on the suits,or better still let us edit them like we can in Ride 4.
Regarding the update,there doesnt seem a lot that has changed for me,the flickering on the garage screen seems to have gone although going back into the garage gives a brief flicker.Going from freeplay into tuning,into livery editor and back into garage the slow laggy issue seems to have gone aswell.Apart from a few very minor graphical glitches,and I mean small,everything seems okay at the moment,though I havent had the issues that some people have had with the XSX version.( touches wood for good luck :lol: ).
If they keep improving the game then it should end up being a real cracker,I know and agree it shouldnt have to be like this and it should have been perfect from day one but what else can we do.Apart from doing the obvious and requesting a refund in the beginning,which was something I didnt want to do,all we can really do is go with it.
They are really venting their spleens over on FM.net over FM23,and I agree with a lot of there comments,but it must get really tiring after a while,i`d rather just get on a try and get some milage out of my purchase.Just my 2 cents worth,not looking for any arguments.👍
 
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Yesterday, just after the update, it didn't work. I tried again today and now it worked somehow 😂

Man, as a software developer, I'd love to see their code. 😅

Looks like they've broken controller support on Steam, so I can't even try the new update unless I want to drive with a keyboard.

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That sucks.

It would be nice if they added haptic feedback support for DualSense. If the leaks are real, the mid gen refresh of Series X will include a new controller with haptics. They could start supporting it on PC to test it first, before the console release.

4194407-sebile.png
 
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But... is anyone actually able to sell any of their 2020 R8's? They're both unsellable for me saying that I cannot sell gifted cars :odd:
I think they removed the ability to with this update - which is a shame. I couldn't care less about the car and appreciate being able to sell prize cars that I can guarantee I'll never use for some credits to buy something that I actually will.
 
It would be nice if they added haptic feedback support for DualSense.
Yes! It doesn't even directly support the DS at all at the moment, it only works via the Steam input layer. The Crew Motorfest uses the DS trigger haptic feedback on PC, that's the only game I've come across that does it.
 
Me too. There's something to be said for unloading dupes as soon as you get them. Maybe the words "before update" in the patch note were supposed to be some kind of subtle warning.
 
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Great stuff.

Kept all my millions from the glitch, kept all my cars I bought with the money, kept my driver level, unlocked every race suit, and they gave me an Audi R8 for my troubles.

Did you auto-drive or use a glitch? Someone commented earlier that it was a particular glitch that was exploited that was targetted, not people using the accessibility features to auto-drive and upgrade cars
 
Did you auto-drive or use a glitch? Someone commented earlier that it was a particular glitch that was exploited that was targetted, not people using the accessibility features to auto-drive and upgrade cars
I did.. both, repeatedly :lol:
 
Is it just me, or does the game look a little more yellow and bright in sunshine since update 3.0?
(I noticed it particularly on VIR, but also on Mid Ohio)
 
They want that feeling because that feeling was/is great, then AND now. It just works. Go and play GT4s career mode and compare it to GT7 or Forza Motorsport. Which is the most engaging, satisfying and fun? I think we all know. This is not nostalgia, it's great game design.
Yeah, I'm sure having you start in a Mazda Demio and forcing you to complete a series of gruelling single-corner timed challenges just to access better paying events would go down spectacularly well with the Forza community.
No, it's more than that. Fans want a progression system that's fun and well thought out, this system just...wasn't.
Ah, I'm not saying FM23's progression is well thought out per se, but most of the complains I've read boil down to "why doesn't the game let me do what I want from the get go?".

Any progression system based on extrinsic motivators (i.e. locking content behind levels, credits or what have you) on a sandbox title like Forza is doomed to failure, simply because it runs counter to the ethos of the game. And intrinsic motivators are a hit and a miss - had they put in a career system where, say, you start from driving slower cars and move upwards to big boy racers, which you could have bypassed entirely as you can bypass entirely the Builders Cup now, people would've complained about the career being "useless".

Again, it all boils down to people yearning for game mechanics that got old almost twenty years ago; not because they were bad, but simply because there's only so many times you can have fun playing a GT4-like progression.

I'll eat my words if a competing title comes out with a progression system that makes most people happy. But I don't think that's very likely to happen anytime soon.
 
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I don't know if it's been talked about in here or another thread but just wanted to throw out some tuning information.
Under the tab Suspension Geometry. Get rid of that Anti Geometry crap. Turn it to zero (or as close to zero as you can get it) and test the cars. It gets rid of the understeery mess that a lot of cars have. Makes them more lively. It seems to be setup to make the cars understeer and easier to use, maybe for controller? I don't know but you get your steering back. Especially more useful on the stock tires which I find actually usable now. Why they put these fake suspension settings in here, I have no clue. Seems like an overall blanket setting to make a car behave a certain way without doing it the right way with actual car components tuning.
This, after the update I started putting serious laps using this recommendation and it has made all the difference. Before, I felt there was something off, but I could not point exactly what, and my driving was inconsistent all over the tracks. Now, I'm getting a consistent behavior while braking/turning and the overall feel has improved.
 
Yeah, I'm sure having you start in a Mazda Demio and forcing you to complete a series of gruelling single-corner timed challenges just to access better paying events would go down spectacularly well with the Forza community.

Ah, I'm not saying FM23's progression is well thought out per se, but most of the complains I've read boil down to "why doesn't the game let me do what I want from the get go?".

Any progression system based on extrinsic motivators (i.e. locking content behind levels, credits or what have you) on a sandbox title like Forza is doomed to failure, simply because it runs counter to the ethos of the game. And intrinsic motivators are a hit and a miss - had they put in a career system where, say, you start from driving slower cars and move upwards to big boy racers, which you could have bypassed entirely as you can bypass entirely the Builders Cup now, people would've complained about the career being "useless".

Again, it all boils down to people yearning for game mechanics that got old almost twenty years ago; not because they were bad, but simply because there's only so many times you can have fun playing a GT4-like progression.

I'll eat my words if a competing title comes out with a progression system that makes most people happy. But I don't think that's very likely to happen anytime soon.
I'm sorry but I don't agree with there not being a progression system that people could have been happy with.
Let me just propose a simple yet thought out plan. The short version. And let's use what we already have just to make it easy.
We have classes of cars, starting with E Class.
I'm going to give you 3 E Class cars to pick from to start your Forza Builders Cup career.
You choose car. Lets say you have 3 - 4 race Championships to do in the car. First one being beginner, second one AI PI levels rise and the third one PI levels rise even more as you see them starting to fit parts on their cars. The point being, in order to be competitive, you either need to:
A) build and tune your car or
B) possibly if you have enough money, buy a better car and take your chances.

Now all the while, maybe C, B, A cars are locked from competition in career (you can still use them in free play, don't worry).

Now upon completion, you can either use you tuned E car, which is now probably a D or maybe even a C car, and take your chances on the next series of events.
This chain of events can progress all the way through the Letters of road cars until we get to race cars after A Class and then maybe split off the beginner race cars into user selectable Beginner Race Championships. Mazda M-5 Cup. Mazda Formula Mazda. Maybe Touring Cars next. Maybe branch off to Vintage Race Car classes. Whatever.

This is my personal idea of a "Builders Cup". Maybe others don't like it it but that's what I consider a nostalgic career and ACCCTUALLY building. Lock higher end series until you finish lower ones. People say that in this day and age they don't want that anymore. I say BS. That's exactly what I wanted. I wanted to make only a certain amount of credits to either build my car, or buy a better one. Not free lance the game all over the place with nothing making sense and no feeling of completion.

Grain of salt and 2 cents.
 
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I'm sorry but I don't agree with there not being a progression system that people could have been happy with.
Let me just propose a simple yet thought out plan. The short version. And let's use what we already have just to make it easy.
We have classes of cars, starting with E Class.
I'm going to give you 3 E Class cars to pick from to start your Forza Builders Cup career.
You choose car. Lets say you have 3 - 4 race Championships to do in the car. First one being beginner, second one AI PI levels rise and the third one PI levels rise even more as you see them starting to fit parts on their cars. The point being, in order to be competitive, you either need to:
A) build and tune your car or
B) possibly if you have enough money, buy a better car and take your chances.

Now all the while, maybe C, B, A cars are locked from competition in career (you can still use them in free play, don't worry).

Now upon completion, you can either use you tuned E car, which is now probably a D or maybe even a C car, and take your chances on the next series of events.
This chain of events can progress all the way through the Letters of road cars until we get to race cars after A Class and then maybe split off the beginner race cars into user selectable Beginner Race Championships. Mazda M-5 Cup. Mazda Formula Mazda. Maybe Touring Cars next. Maybe branch off to Vintage Race Car classes. Whatever.

This is my personal idea of a "Builders Cup". Maybe others don't like it it but that's what I consider a nostalgic career and ACCCTUALLY building. Lock higher end series until you finish lower ones. People say that in this day and age they don't want that anymore. I say BS. That's exactly what I wanted. I wanted to make only a certain amount of credits to either build my car, or buy a better one. Not free lance the game all over the place with nothing making sense and no feeling of completion.

Grain of salt and 2 cents.
Cool, but I don't want to engage in a rags-to-riches fantasy, I want to race TCRs in the Multiplayer Hoppers!

As a game developer, you can either:
  • make me (and many other players who share my priorities) a rather unhappy customer by forcing me to go through a career that will feature the cars I'm interested in rather close to its end. I may be so bored of driving E-class cars I may stop playing the game altogether, and if I got the game on Gamepass, after all, I don't even have to think about sunk costs and all that nonsense. OR
  • only lock some content behind Career milestones - perhaps awarding some specific car models for completion of certain events? Yeah, good luck with all the players who will loudly complain about how they need to "grind" your stupid career to unlock the exact specific car model they bought the game for! OR
  • give me access to TCRs right away. Which, however, means there's no actual point in me playing the career - why would I? There's no extrinsic motivator compelling me to give it a shot, and I've no intrinsic motivation towards it. Which would lead to many players simply not bothering with it - and the game not really having a "progression" worth speaking of outside of a game mode that's progression for progression's sake, something reviewers and players would certainly pick on.
As you can see, neither option is exactly optimal. Of course, T10's solution to the issue - tacking on a "car RPG" system nobody really asked for, which only serves to further fragment the community and spits in the face of tuners - is even less so. But the core problem, i.e. the fact that implementing any sort of progression system in a game with a sandbox approach to buying and personalizing cars like Forza, is a thankless job, and they may as well do what Horizon did and get rid of any meaningful career progression entirely.
 
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Cool, but I don't want to engage in a rags-to-riches fantasy, I want to race TCRs in the Multiplayer Hoppers!
I think you're really looking into it a bit too much. You're trying to find things that really weren't in the idea of the offline career. You still get to immediately use content whether through renting or whatnot. My point was that the game somehow separated a build your car career from the other aspects of the game like multiplayer or freeplay. I didn't really want to go into a tirade of dream fiction for too long.

My point was that the career has it's own point and storyline but yet multiplayer or freeplay offline offered a more immediate approach to using the cars. It's just an idea anyways.
 
but most of the complains I've read boil down to "why doesn't the game let me do what I want from the get go?".
I honestly can't say I've had the same experience, most of the complaints I had were actually about how bad the system was and also...wanting it to play like FM4's Career or GT4's career. I also got ones where people would've been happy with the XP system for tuning parts had it been manufacture based instead of being car to car based.

Any progression system based on extrinsic motivators (i.e. locking content behind levels, credits or what have you) on a sandbox title like Forza is doomed to failure, simply because it runs counter to the ethos of the game. And intrinsic motivators are a hit and a miss - had they put in a career system where, say, you start from driving slower cars and move upwards to big boy racers, which you could have bypassed entirely as you can bypass entirely the Builders Cup now, people would've complained about the career being "useless".

Again, it all boils down to people yearning for game mechanics that got old almost twenty years ago; not because they were bad, but simply because there's only so many times you can have fun playing a GT4-like progression.
I can't quite agree fully that the days of progression-based gameplay are over and noone would be happy with one. I think the right kind of progression system can still be fun and motivating to the player. You just needs a system that balances linearity with non-linear type gameplay. It doesn't necessarily have to be like early GT or early FM, but can be its own form of progression fun.

I think FM23 had ideas that could work for a fun progression system, but they're limited. The Builder's Cup should've been part of something. and I'm not just talking about multiple racing cups here, but rather different kinds of activities and missions.
 
I don't know if it's been talked about in here or another thread but just wanted to throw out some tuning information.
Under the tab Suspension Geometry. Get rid of that Anti Geometry crap. Turn it to zero (or as close to zero as you can get it) and test the cars. It gets rid of the understeery mess that a lot of cars have. Makes them more lively. It seems to be setup to make the cars understeer and easier to use, maybe for controller? I don't know but you get your steering back. Especially more useful on the stock tires which I find actually usable now. Why they put these fake suspension settings in here, I have no clue. Seems like an overall blanket setting to make a car behave a certain way without doing it the right way with actual car components tuning.
Is that available to change on all cars? Because I checked the Corvette Z06 and those settings were locked.

The disappearing track thing has not been fixed. I was racing Mugello in the Italian Ingenuity challenge and the track started to turn to black and disappear. But when I tried to take a picture of it the game locked up and I had to restart.
 
I can run the game at 4k with DLAA with a locked 60fps now which looks insane. BUT when turning on RTAO the framerate drops in half, this is understandable but I have to wonder why I can't turn on RTAO without also turning on RT reflections

Also why is there no fallback AO solution, it seems if you turn RT off you have absolutely no ambient occlusion? Why no screenspace AO like Forza Horizon 5? Why no HBAO?

Or am I mistaken and there is an AO solution without RT on?
 
I can run the game at 4k with DLAA with a locked 60fps now which looks insane. BUT when turning on RTAO the framerate drops in half, this is understandable but I have to wonder why I can't turn on RTAO without also turning on RT reflections

Also why is there no fallback AO solution, it seems if you turn RT off you have absolutely no ambient occlusion? Why no screenspace AO like Forza Horizon 5? Why no HBAO?

Or am I mistaken and there is an AO solution without RT on?
As far as I'm aware, dynamic render quality set to ultra adds tessellation and improves ambient occlusion of trackside objects over lower settings. Particularly noticeable on grass which lacks depth without that setting.

I'm not sure if this setting also affects cars though.
 
As far as I'm aware, dynamic render quality set to ultra adds tessellation and improves ambient occlusion of trackside objects over lower settings. Particularly noticeable on grass which lacks depth without that setting.

I'm not sure if this setting also affects cars though.
Interesting thanks. I have this set on ultra, but I play from cockpit view and notice a huge difference on interiors with RTAO on and off. So maybe it doesn't affect cars. It's annoying I want all the bells and whistles but I don't wana upgrade from my 3080 :P

they may as well do what Horizon did and get rid of any meaningful career progression entirely.
Season 5 No GIF by The Office
 
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Well thankfully you can use the FXX-K Evo to race the first tour of the new Featured Series.

It's really funny watching those Battistas with their 2000hp rocket away from you on the straights, but they are hopeless in the corners compared to a proper slick-shod race car obviously.
 
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