Forza Motorsport General Discussion Thread

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The 963 to me is definitely more squirrely right out the box than the Cadillac V.R. They both have similar straight line speed maybe the Porsche being slightly faster as speeds increase and the Caddy is a little better on the brakes. I did get both to run a 1:54 at Sebring first go round so there's that. I do hope T10 has plans to soon follow up with the BMW V8 Hybrid, Acura ARX-06 and the Lambo SC63 and more if possible. These cars are too fun and the other rivals would be truly welcomed to fill the division.
 
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What are the origins of the base livery of the Chevron B16? When I last checked RacingSportsCars, there was no such chassis with a white livery, number 8 and Castrol/Ferodo sponsors and an American flag.
Ahhh, a livery mistery! I love a good livery mistery!
RSC's a good starting point, but for a car like the Chevron B16 - which had a long and storied career in hillclimbing and historic racing after it lost its competitive edge in sportscar racing - you have to go much deeper down the rabbit hole.

After a rather lenghty search, I have indeed found a picture of our #8 on the web - taken, or so the website claims, at the 2019 Rolex Reunion at Laguna Seca. The car is identified as #DBE 26.

1718102465923.png


Further research reveals that it was driven by Kent Morgan, who's raced other cars with the number 8 (most notably, a Chevron B8) and on his theVRL page states he owns a B16. But is it the B16? Probably yes, as there should be only a dozen or so original B16s left in the world... And I don't think they'll let you park a replica near the paddock at the Monterey Reunion!

Or would they?

Looking for the chassis number, another car turns up. Apparently, this was built by Vin Malkie with parts from the original DBE 26 chassis. It showed up in Monza in 2007 and 2008, looking - well, red.

1718108306209.png


Was DBE 26 sold in the US and given a shiny new coat of white paint in the twelve years separating these two pictures? Possible, but somewhat unlikely, as a racecar's color is often part of its "passport", even when it's not associated with an historic paint scheme.
Or perhaps it was involved in an accident back in its glory days and parted away, only for the chassis and components to be restored into two new whole cars competing for the same chassis number? Such occurrences are not infrequent. Going back to RSC, however, reveals a surprisingly short career for DBE 26: it only appears once, as an entrant in the 1970 24h du Mans - from which it retired, apparently after a valve spring failed. Unlucky, yes, but not the kind of mechanical failure which results in a car ending up in several crates and bins.

Afterwards, it seems to have vanished into thin air - Escuderia Montjuich's first, and last, race with a BMW-powered Chevron.
 
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Ahhh, a livery mistery! I love a good livery mistery!
RSC's a good starting point, but for a car like the Chevron B16 - which's had a long and storied history in historic & hillclimb races - you have to go much deeper down the rabbit hole.

I have indeed found a picture of our #8 on the web - apparently taken at the 2019 Rolex Reunion at Laguna Seca of chassis number DBE 26.

View attachment 1363854

Further research reveals that it was driven by Kent Morgan, who's raced other cars with the number 8 (most notably, a Chevron B8) and on his theVRL page states he owns a B16. But is it the B16? Probably yes, as there should be only a dozen or so original B16s left in the world... And I don't think they'll let you park a replica near the paddock at the Monterey Reunion!
DBE 26 story: taken from this website.
https://www.asmonzaracing.com/photos-cars-walkaround-chevron-b16-1969-70.html

Chassis was built by Vin Malkie in 1999 on DBE 026 identity and remaining parts. There are currently many Chevron B16 cars authorized to race as historic cars but many are new cars, built in the 80's with chassis numbers of original models, or rebuilt on the basis of original models. Even today you can buy a Chevron B16 built with the specifications of the era ... new! In the multitude of existing cars, it becomes difficult to identify the truly original cars.
 
DBE 26 story: taken from this website.
https://www.asmonzaracing.com/photos-cars-walkaround-chevron-b16-1969-70.html

Chassis was built by Vin Malkie in 1999 on DBE 026 identity and remaining parts. There are currently many Chevron B16 cars authorized to race as historic cars but many are new cars, built in the 80's with chassis numbers of original models, or rebuilt on the basis of original models. Even today you can buy a Chevron B16 built with the specifications of the era ... new! In the multitude of existing cars, it becomes difficult to identify the truly original cars.
Per WSRP, Malkie's DBE 26 was actually sold to French race driver Corentine Quiniou in 2007. The car changed hands again in 2023, staying in France, and red.

It's possible the chassis number listed for Morgan's B16 is wrong, but it's also possible that we're dealing with two separate DBE 26. Again, that's not too uncommon with Chevrons... And as the two cars are very unlikely to show up on the same continent, leave alone at the same race event, I don't think this case of duplicate identity is ever going to be much of an issue for the respective owners.

In any case, hopefully "our" Chevron will have a nicely readable, photogrammetrically-generated chassis plate... :lol:
 
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So, my take on the latest update is something I have not seen many people mention. I spend much of my time in online MP races and the fact we have at least 2x, maybe even 3x the races in at least Open Class, makes for easier choices, skipping tracks you may dislike is a big deal and very underrated. This fix my bring back some to online MP. Choices for races has drastically improved BUT unfortunetely this weeks coming open races are not to my liking. I think T10 should keep alternating A and S class or A and B Class in addition to one higher and one lower classes.

I actually am hoping for more lower class cars to build. Keep fixing bugs and crashes. Fix the broken Exocet and P. 550. I am now fairly happy overall.
 
After this update i manage to find this text in part manufacturer strings :
Spice (probably refers to spice engineering?)

This one has been in the files since few updates ago as far as i know :
Williams (I don't know if this refers to current cars we have now such as the Renault Clio Williams)
 
Per WSRP, Malkie's DBE 26 was actually sold to French race driver Corentine Quiniou in 2007. The car changed hands again in 2023, staying in France, and red.

It's possible the chassis number listed for Morgan's B16 is wrong, but it's also possible that we're dealing with two separate DBE 26. Again, that's not too uncommon with Chevrons... And as the two cars are very unlikely to show up on the same continent, leave alone at the same race event, I don't think this case of duplicate identity is ever going to be much of an issue for the respective owners.

In any case, hopefully "our" Chevron will have a nicely readable, photogrammetrically-generated chassis plate... :lol:
It's a pleasure to have learned something new about the history of that car! ^^
 
It should be. Gordon Spice was a legend in the Touring car scene and a menace in Sportscars in the late 80s and early 90s. I’d love to see a few of his cars

Spice SE86c
Spice SE89c
Spice SE90c
Tiga CG 85

Also the 1985 Lamborghini Countach QVX group c car had a Spice body which would also be a lovely addition
And the Spice Fiero
 
MotoGamesTV has posted a comparison of the 2 tracks with updates this month, besides the obvious looks like there are some more tweaks to lighting, the sky-box in particular looks to have a lot more contrast

Looks like the only kerbs that were actually tweaked are the inside exit of Adenauer Forst (raised it), and the first kerb in Wippermann (lowered it). The latter is quite positive as it's my favorite corner on the track and definitely allows us to use closer to the real line in more cars.

It would be interesting to see what a comparison on Series X looks like. The colors are definitely more vivid for some of the kerbs, as if they had a fresh coat of paint, and the dirt in many places seems to stand out more so initially it does look quite different on the console. Like at first I thought they added the hatchstones behind the first apex of Hocheichen but I guess it's just that they are much easier to see now, but I only had time for a quick lap yesterday before I had a league race so I definitely need to do a few more laps on it.

Sort of a weird move for them. They fixed two kerbs which is good, but left many others that are very obviously wrong and ignore some others that are pretty important for using real life lines, then claim it's to make the kerbs more accurate for 2024... Like overall it's an improvement, but to call it a 2024 update is misleading when none of the 2024 updates are actually in place (of which the Foxhole exit kerb is the most significant, but it's better that they didn't change it imo), meanwhile Wipperman's kerb surface (not height) was changed in 2023 and Adenauer Forst kerbs haven't been changed in 5 or 6 years if I remember right.

The lighting changes are positive though, and the dirt contrasting more does make the kerbs easier to pick out so it will probably help out a bit in low light conditions. Despite being inaccurate it was still fun to drive before so it's only better now. Even if it needs more work, their willingness to tweak it some is good and it will be interesting to see if we get more tweaks in the future.

I'd have to disagree, while this update is kinda light in terms of fixes, they did put out a blog with a roadmap of what they have been working on just over a month ago, I know we'd all like to see those changes in as quick as possible, but it's hard to fault that communication to be fair, I'd much rather they've told us a radar is coming as an example than stay silent up until it gets released.
I suppose they have given us a few "hey we are working on a feature" type of comments, but that just feels like throwing out a few odds and ends rather than a roadmap to me, as they don't really seem like cohesive additions or address the state of the sort broad "areas" of the game like career, Featured Multiplayer, etc and the questions people in those sub-communities are asking. Using the radar system as an example, while it is absolutely a great feature to have (assuming it works right), it's not going to do anything to revitalize the career for the single player guys who are losing interest, or make public multiplayer feel fresh, or make organized racing any less of a hassle to work around the issues and missing features, tide the drifters over while they wait for anything, etc.

When I think of a roadmap I think more about things for the individual sections of the game and their progression/evolution. For example, looking at something like the public multiplayer side of the game, all we know is that some splits for Forza GT are coming, and that's probably positive. Also this last update they changed the practice lengths, something that has been complained about but they made no acknowledgement of before that I had seen so it was kind of a surprise. What about the track rotations? Those have been complained about but no acknowledgement, and who knows, maybe they don't want to change them for some specific reason, maybe they just haven't got to it yet, maybe they are already being worked on, we don't know anything. If you dig deep into some 2 hour livestream, there was a brief mention of a weather forecasting system for public lobbies, how about a little more info about that? Addressing a few of those questions and rounding up some of that info into a sort of "the state of Featured Multiplayer and its roadmap" community post that is updated would be cool to see, and ditto for some of the other parts of the game.

Most seem to agree the game has a lot of positives and a lot of potential, but 9 months or whatever after release it feels like we are still just kinda sitting around saying that and hoping while we continue to work around issues that we have no clue if will ever be fixed. A lot of the impatient people have given up and left, but in the remaining more loyal part of the community you can see frustrations boiling up. This place is typically pretty positive and you can see it here about the single player side of things and probably notice a lot of people who were positive early days have stopped posting (which doesn't mean they are gone I guess, but it doesn't seem like a stretch to assume that means they aren't playing anymore or don't care). Look at places like TORA, their marquee enduro events had hundreds of players entering and a bunch of esports teams and tons of live streams, but they haven't even scheduled one yet given the state of private lobbies and the lack of clarity on what the future holds for them is a constant source of frustration there, even amongst some of the staff who have direct contact with T10 on the subject. I'd imagine the drift community is in a similar limbo, the painting community is still frustrated, and so on.

Maybe I'm expecting too much from T10 as some other games I play have devs that speak more openly about plans and actually answer questions. Game development is complicated enough and can change quickly even before you add in things like license complications that are more prevalent in racing games, so I understand there are some things they may not be able to discuss and other things that they would be reticent to bring up, but the effort to do so would help placate the community a bit I think. I guess it would be kinda tough too though, as the game does have several sub-communities all pulling in different directions that are sure that their part of the game is the most important.
 
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Really not liking this game right now. The load times have gotten ridiculous.

Screenshot 2024-06-11 195859.png


It took nearly 5 minutes just to get the game loaded initially after it did this optimizing shaders junk. Then in between races it took forever to get them loaded up.

I think the AI at Sebring must be super strong. So much that I had to drop down to level 5 to have half a chance to compete. To test it I ran the Audi GT3 with the AI field at the exact same PI number as me. 8 lap races. At level 6 I got beat by nearly 40 seconds. Level 5 I got beat by only 6 seconds. Level 4 I won by 3 seconds. Same scenario same car at Nurburgring GP. Level 6 I won by 9 seconds. Level 5 I won by 27 seconds. Level 4 by nearly a minute.
 
Looks like the only kerbs that were actually tweaked are the inside exit of Adenauer Forst (raised it), and the first kerb in Wippermann (lowered it). The latter is quite positive as it's my favorite corner on the track and definitely allows us to use closer to the real line in more cars.

It would be interesting to see what a comparison on Series X looks like. The colors are definitely more vivid for some of the kerbs, as if they had a fresh coat of paint, and the dirt in many places seems to stand out more so initially it does look quite different on the console. Like at first I thought they added the hatchstones behind the first apex of Hocheichen but I guess it's just that they are much easier to see now, but I only had time for a quick lap yesterday before I had a league race so I definitely need to do a few more laps on it.

Sort of a weird move for them. They fixed two kerbs which is good, but left many others that are very obviously wrong and ignore some others that are pretty important for using real life lines, then claim it's to make the kerbs more accurate for 2024... Like overall it's an improvement, but to call it a 2024 update is misleading when none of the 2024 updates are actually in place (of which the Foxhole exit kerb is the most significant, but it's better that they didn't change it imo), meanwhile Wipperman's kerb surface (not height) was changed in 2023 and Adenauer Forst kerbs haven't been changed in 5 or 6 years if I remember right.

The lighting changes are positive though, and the dirt contrasting more does make the kerbs easier to pick out so it will probably help out a bit in low light conditions. Despite being inaccurate it was still fun to drive before so it's only better now. Even if it needs more work, their willingness to tweak it some is good and it will be interesting to see if we get more tweaks in the future.


I suppose they have given us a few "hey we are working on a feature" type of comments, but that just feels like throwing out a few odds and ends rather than a roadmap to me, as they don't really seem like cohesive additions or address the state of the sort broad "areas" of the game like career, Featured Multiplayer, etc and the questions people in those sub-communities are asking. Using the radar system as an example, while it is absolutely a great feature to have (assuming it works right), it's not going to do anything to revitalize the career for the single player guys who are losing interest, or make public multiplayer feel fresh, or make organized racing any less of a hassle to work around the issues and missing features, tide the drifters over while they wait for anything, etc.

When I think of a roadmap I think more about things for the individual sections of the game and their progression/evolution. For example, looking at something like the public multiplayer side of the game, all we know is that some splits for Forza GT are coming, and that's probably positive. Also this last update they changed the practice lengths, something that has been complained about but they made no acknowledgement of before that I had seen so it was kind of a surprise. What about the track rotations? Those have been complained about but no acknowledgement, and who knows, maybe they don't want to change them for some specific reason, maybe they just haven't got to it yet, maybe they are already being worked on, we don't know anything. If you dig deep into some 2 hour livestream, there was a brief mention of a weather forecasting system for public lobbies, how about a little more info about that? Addressing a few of those questions and rounding up some of that info into a sort of "the state of Featured Multiplayer and its roadmap" community post that is updated would be cool to see, and ditto for some of the other parts of the game.

Most seem to agree the game has a lot of positives and a lot of potential, but 9 months or whatever after release it feels like we are still just kinda sitting around saying that and hoping while we continue to work around issues that we have no clue if will ever be fixed. A lot of the impatient people have given up and left, but in the remaining more loyal part of the community you can see frustrations boiling up. This place is typically pretty positive and you can see it here about the single player side of things and probably notice a lot of people who were positive early days have stopped posting (which doesn't mean they are gone I guess, but it doesn't seem like a stretch to assume that means they aren't playing anymore or don't care). Look at places like TORA, their marquee enduro events had hundreds of players entering and a bunch of esports teams and tons of live streams, but they haven't even scheduled one yet given the state of private lobbies and the lack of clarity on what the future holds for them is a constant source of frustration there, even amongst some of the staff who have direct contact with T10 on the subject. I'd imagine the drift community is in a similar limbo, the painting community is still frustrated, and so on.

Maybe I'm expecting too much from T10 as some other games I play have devs that speak more openly about plans and actually answer questions. Game development is complicated enough and can change quickly even before you add in things like license complications that are more prevalent in racing games, so I understand there are some things they may not be able to discuss and other things that they would be reticent to bring up, but the effort to do so would help placate the community a bit I think. I guess it would be kinda tough too though, as the game does have several sub-communities all pulling in different directions that are sure that their part of the game is the most important.

Re: Roadmap, yeah I certainly get that, the updates to the game have been fairly reactive rather than intentional, with no long term plan. Although I'm not totally against that, they legitimately seem to be taking the highest voted suggestions in the hub and are making them reality, the game is being shaped by the player base to some degree which is great to see.

I certainly share the frustration around the single player career, there has been zero response to the constant feedback that events should not be existing for a single patch cycle, as an outsider it seems like such an obvious thing to fix, as even if storage concerns are reasons for them not being permanent, just ditch the showcase and audio and keep the event configuration+thumbnail in a "legacy tours" section. I'm hopeful that the lack of communication around this issue is just that they don't have a concrete solution to this problem yet, rather than they are digging their heels in despite the backlash.



Very interesting change here, they have adjusted the practice timings without pushing out an update, I wonder if we'll finally see more of this, the fact we haven't seen anything like this in the past feels like maybe the ability to modify live parameters was limited in the past but can now be changed. It would be great if they can move faster on these kinds of issues and make tweaks here and there without waiting till next months patch cycle.
 
Really not liking this game right now. The load times have gotten ridiculous.

View attachment 1364071

It took nearly 5 minutes just to get the game loaded initially after it did this optimizing shaders junk. Then in between races it took forever to get them loaded up.

I think the AI at Sebring must be super strong. So much that I had to drop down to level 5 to have half a chance to compete. To test it I ran the Audi GT3 with the AI field at the exact same PI number as me. 8 lap races. At level 6 I got beat by nearly 40 seconds. Level 5 I got beat by only 6 seconds. Level 4 I won by 3 seconds. Same scenario same car at Nurburgring GP. Level 6 I won by 9 seconds. Level 5 I won by 27 seconds. Level 4 by nearly a minute.
Sorry to know, probably a PC thing only. Loads lightning fast on Xbox.
 
No problems for me too, playing on Series S and this update have improved something in lightining and graphics.
There's always a Hidden thing or two in those updates in terms of performance stability and improving O_O
 
And the Spice Fiero
I looked this car up. I like what I found.

GM should have never closed Pontiac, and Pontiac should have kept making and evolving the Fiero.

Thanks for pointing this gem out.

I skimmed Wiki about it. It was Spice's own chassis with a Fiero engine and engineering advice from GM. So Fiero in name only. But still a capable machine.
 
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I like the new cloud graphics and the reflections look far better during a rainy night (I could be wrong about the track reflections, these 40 years old eyes are quite tired.)! Also when you go below a track light during really heavy rain you can see fog formations that I don't remember seeing before.
 
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Amazingly, I'm enjoying Sebring! Doing some rivals, starting at E class, only stock cars.

The physics in this game are ace!

Slight issue is the crazy white tar/concrete in some areas. Obviously you can't change time of day in Rivals so I'm stuck with it. Other tracks don't have this.

Oh, and the VW Corrado is proper gash 🤣
 
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Slight issue is the crazy white tar/concrete in some areas. Obviously you can't change time of day in Rivals so I'm stuck with it. Other tracks don't have this.
If it’s the section leading into T5 it’s accurate to real life. The new section of tarmac is raised so the line into that braking zone is far right then cross over after then section starts. Hitting it head on will caused your car to bottom out
 
Did a 24 laps of Le Mans yesterday with the Porsche 963 and it's fantastic :)


View attachment 1364140
View attachment 1364141
I'm kind of underwhelmed by it. I don't have the Cadillac yet to compare it against. But most all Forza race cars to me are just kind of meh. They don't feel like true race cars to me. Too much sliding, too hard to turn, they don't sound right. Now I don't tune and maybe some or all of that can be fixed by tuning and maybe that's the point of having them be bland right out of the box but I don't tune cars in other games either. Some of the Forza open wheelers are decent. The Lotus from a few tours ago is ok.
 
Would you believe I spotted a little plane taking off alongside the main straight in Sebring? (second lap of the C8 challenge, under a glorious clear sky). I love this kind of details.
They really did Sebring well coming into this game. Fully laser scanned, nice small details, bumps are accurate, and flows better then ever. Plus the addition of different times of day/weather makes it even prettier.
 
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Welp, it looks like this update has returned the game getting stuck/crashing when changing cars many times and going into the "Select car" screen.

Doing a test night for league things where we are building/changing cars quite a bit, between 4 of us in the last 2 hours we have had a combined 6 crashes to dashboard/desktop, and many instances of the game freezing for 5-10 seconds when going into the "select car" menu, on all 3 platforms between us.
 
Last night I said I thought it took about 5 minutes for the game to load. Well as they say.....hold my beer.



My arms were getting very tired holding the phone to record it. That's absolutely ridiculous. Once it finally loaded I think it took about 3 to 4 minutes to load the Sebring race. @ManteoMax have you heard about long loading times on PC after this last update?
 
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