Forza Motorsport General Discussion Thread

[FordGTGuy]

If RT doesn't make it, it will have ZERO impact on my purchase decision. I am playing GT7 without RT and loving every second of it. I am sure I will feel the same about Forza.

If it got cut, that sucks. But I am sure they have their reasons.

Nothing is cut, this is "concern" over a dev build shown four months from launch.

 

[SimTourist]

Why would it be blowback for a $500 console to run RT reflections when it's going to take a $1200+ GPU to properly run RTGI?



AMD CUs have RT core in each CU.

PS5 has 36 CU.

XSX has 52 CU.

That is a 44% increase in RT cores over the PS5.

PS5 games are not a proper comparison.

The gap in RT cores between the Xbox Series S and PS5 is the same as PS5 to XSX.

We have a nice benchmark comparison in RT capabilities with Control, one of the heaviest RT most advanced games out there, and the performance difference is not 44%, more like 5-10% or less.

 

[Bogie 19th]

Nothing is cut, this is "concern" over a dev build shown four months from launch.

Glad to hear it.

 

[Jezza819]

In FM7 single player all cars were provided with homologation parts applied so you literally didn’t even need to customize them. Just choose a car and race that single player series….

And I loved that. No tinkering, testing, adjusting, fitting, required. Just get in it and race. That's what I'm looking for in this new game.

I still haven't seen the overall presentation yet but I did get to watch the Builders Cup separate video. One thing that Chris said that I don't quite understand is "Cars will (or should be, I can't remember which one he said) built not bought". So you're not acquiring credits to buy more cars anymore? Or are you strictly getting new cars by having to upgrade and grind a car that you are given at the start and that's what unlocks more cars?

On the credits payout screen where it shows you the levels of payouts, it looks like maybe you can just run stock only with no upgrades or tuning but you're payouts are going to be so tiny that it will take forever to acquire more cars (if indeed you can buy them using credits) and you'll be so frustrated that you will be forced into doing all of the tuning and upgrading stuff. Or can you still run stock only but up you're payout level by doing the damage, tire wear, fuel usage option? I'm not wild about that option either as I always turn damage and tire wear off in any racing game I play.

I saw on the race results page they showed there is still the triangle & exclamation point icon for invalidated lap times. If that is for track limit violation and collisions, that's ok. But I really hope they've done away with invalidating lap times just because you've drafted off of another car. That was always so stupid to me. What racing series anywhere invalidates lap times due to catching a draft?

I was watching this video last night while lying in bed right before going to sleep so I'm having to try and go back from memory with what I had questions about.

 

[SU_Tempest]

And I loved that. No tinkering, testing, adjusting, fitting, required. Just get in it and race. That's what I'm looking for in this new game.

I still haven't seen the overall presentation yet but I did get to watch the Builders Cup separate video. One thing that Chris said that I don't quite understand is "Cars will (or should be, I can't remember which one he said) built not bought". So you're not acquiring credits to buy more cars anymore? Or are you strictly getting new cars by having to upgrade and grind a car that you are given at the start and that's what unlocks more cars?

As far as I understand it, credits is for cars, car points is for upgrades. "Built not bought" is marketing speak, it makes for a nice tagline, but gotta read between those lines.

 

[FordGTGuy]

We have a nice benchmark comparison in RT capabilities with Control, one of the heaviest RT most advanced games out there, and the performance difference is not 44%, more like 5-10% or less.

On a third party title, not a first party game.

 

[MroczMR]

On a third party title, not a first party game.

There is literally none games that prooved 45% performance boost in RT on Xbox SX. Performance difference between PS5 an Xbox is minimal. Both consoles are similary capable machines.

 

[ImaRobot]

I mean yes, but the expectations for a next-gen exclusive racer with a protracted dev cycle were higher. But then again Forza 8 has to run on Series S and low end PCs like the Steam Deck. Overall, I'm just dissapointed that there is no massive leap like before.

I mean, if it's on par with a next gen exclusive, how exactly is that a bad thing here? I think I'm a bit confused.

Their previous marketing trailers have promised a 'generational leap in graphical/natural beauty' I think they worded it, along with having 'photorealistic' in their latest marketing blurb, that'll appear on their box in toy stores.

I tend to not really believe much in pre-release marketing lingo. Most any developer will say something along these lines when talking up their next iteration.

 

[Jezza819]

As far as I understand it, credits is for cars, car points is for upgrades. "Built not bought" is marketing speak, it makes for a nice tagline, but gotta read between those lines.

Thanks. That reminds me of something else. Leveling. So progression in both leveling and credits is tied to how deep you want to get with upgrades, etc.? So if you reach level 50 with a car does that mean it's the most tricked out version of that car you can have, or does level 50 reflect how often you've used it?

 

[FordGTGuy]

There is literally none games that prooved 45% performance boost in RT on Xbox SX. Performance difference between PS5 an Xbox is minimal. Both consoles are similary capable machines.

A first party studio focusing on a single piece of hardware and dev kit is going to make better use of that hardware than a third party dev.

 

[nukleabomb]

Thanks. That reminds me of something else. Leveling. So progression in both leveling and credits is tied to how deep you want to get with upgrades, etc.? So if you reach level 50 with a car does that mean it's the most tricked out version of that car you can have, or does level 50 reflect how often you've used it?

How often you have used it.


Also it seems like the AI will scale their vehicle PI to your vehicle. So in theory you can do the whole career stock (I think). At the same time you can just press auto upgrade in the upgrade menu to make your car quicker without tinkering with it.

 

[SU_Tempest]

Thanks. That reminds me of something else. Leveling. So progression in both leveling and credits is tied to how deep you want to get with upgrades, etc.? So if you reach level 50 with a car does that mean it's the most tricked out version of that car you can have, or does level 50 reflect how often you've used it?

Again this is just my understanding of the stream, but the more you use it, get good racing lines, win races, etc., the more car XP you get, unlocking the possibility to apply more and more upgrades. Logically that means levels show how often you've used it and how good the potential upgrades on it are (what you actually have implemented is represented by the PI instead)

 

[Mirai]

Basically, the more you drive that car the higher its potential PI is
It’s a bit like The Division or Destiny - The higher level your weapon the better DPS it’ll have and the better attachments you’ll have access to

 

[SimTourist]

A first party studio focusing on a single piece of hardware and dev kit is going to make better use of that hardware than a third party dev.

Well, Turn10 is not working on a single piece of hardware, are they? SS, SX, millions of PC configurations. Compared to multiplatform games they are only missing the PS5 version.

 

[cjsrt4]

Am I the only one that thought having your car level on the screen while racing is weird? I don't see the point.

 

[AutumnalGlow]

Am I the only one that thought having your car level on the screen while racing is weird? I don't see the point.

I'm hoping it can be turned off. I want to focus on driving, not seeing my XP bar go up. I'd rather it show me the XP I earned at the end of the race.

 

[cjsrt4]

I'm hoping it can be turned off. I want to focus on driving, not seeing my XP bar go up. I'd rather it show me the XP I earned at the end of the race.

That's why I found it weird. It's not a progressive bar or anything. It just displays your level. It's not like it's gonna move while your racing in the same car.

 

[Bogie 19th]

Well, Turn10 is not working on a single piece of hardware, are they? SS, SX, millions of PC configurations. Compared to multiplatform games they are only missing the PS5 version.

They don't have to make it for the Switch nor for the PS5. They can focus on the devices that run their native OS, Windows.

 

[Stupornaut]

2011: "I am so mad at Turn 10. We wanted Spa and Bathurst, we wanted open wheel cars, we wanted day-night cycle, we wanted rain, and what do they give us? A useless 'Autovista' mode and car bowling. I cannot even begin to tell you how disappointed I am."

2023: "Wait, they expect you to play the game to progress??? Screw that, bring back Forza Motorsport 4."

 

[Jezza819]

How often you have used it.


Also it seems like the AI will scale their vehicle PI to your vehicle. So in theory you can do the whole career stock (I think). At the same time you can just press auto upgrade in the upgrade menu to make your car quicker without tinkering with it.

So that's kind of like what homologation was in FM7? Just now you have the option to use it or not?

 

[gtracedriver1]

you might have a point

they've changed the forza suppoert page again

it went from this (after the xbox showcase):

View attachment 1264951

to this (after yesterday's Forza Monthy):
View attachment 1264952

My guess is that, since the game is still undergoing performance tweaks, they have it disabled. But being vague is going to really play against them. And having a month between each info drop is again going to let rumours of both overexpections as well as disdain for choices.


They could also be fearing blowback for "the most powerful gaming console" running their flagship racer with basic RT reflections, while PC gets to enjoy a significantly more advanced RT Global Illumination System.

If they are going to enable RT in final version. Then they have to drop res to something like 1440P and then upscale to 4K, or run at 30fps or dowgrade the LOD. It depends on the quality of RT. They can also use VRS to lower the resolution, IQ should be similar to 1440P. There are many games that use RT. It has a big impact, just see Cyperpunk 2077, it has best RT with several option but enabling it bring performance considerably down, Witcher3 next gen upgrade, Control etc are best examples of what to expect.

 

[SU_Tempest]

So that's kind of like what homologation was in FM7? Just now you have the option to use it or not?

With AI cars PI scaling to you, it works more or less like it has in FH4 and FH5; the AI cars will more or less receive cars and tunes to match your car's PI. I imagine how well they drive those cars is tied to the difficulty setting. Although I'm not totally up to speed on how FM7 homologation works, I'd call it more of an automatic scaling of the AI's overall difficulty.

 

[nukleabomb]

If they are going to enable RT in final version. Then they have to drop res to something like 1440P and then upscale to 4K, or run at 30fps or dowgrade the LOD. It depends on the quality of RT. They can also use VRS to lower the resolution, IQ should be similar to 1440P. There are many games that use RT. It has a big impact, just see Cyperpunk 2077, it has best RT with several option but enabling it bring performance considerably down, Witcher3 next gen upgrade, Control etc are best examples of what to expect.

To my eyes, the footage shown in the forza monthly already looks like it is running some sort of FSR type dear, with shimmering on reflections and fence links getting smudged and distorted. This is also evident in the opening scene with the Cadillac in the garage.

 

[SloGrumpyDad]

As far as I can tell this hasn’t been mentioned in the thread yet - in yesterdays video the dev said there will no longer be assist debuffs (I.e there will be no benefit to running clutch or ABS off)

I could see refiguring the Clutch but ABS vs. no ABS is more of a natural advantage. TCS also has has natural disadvantages vs. TCS OFF. The clutch option is really the only advantage that can be changed IMO. I am curious how this will be approached as well. I always liked the feel of using the clutch in FM.

 

[MadManMarcus]

I could see refiguring the Clutch but ABS vs. no ABS is more of a natural advantage. TCS also has has natural disadvantages vs. TCS OFF. The clutch option is really the only advantage that can be changed IMO. I am curious how this will be approached as well. I always liked the feel of using the clutch in FM.

It’s discussed at 56:50 in the forza monthly vid on YT

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

My only concerns as echoed by others: I don't mind building up a car to level, but that will probably get tedious in the end-game when you just want to buy, build, & dominate a random car for a couple hours without grinding it to level 50.

Also, if you grind a specific car to level 50 (Corvette C7 Z06 for example), any Corvette C7 Z06 bought after should be automatic level 50, imo. You've already put in the work for that specific model.


I'm not at all against this concept, I just think some issues will arise. I can't remember which FM introduced this concept of building XP with a manufacturer but it's a sign they're looking towards their past games for inspiration.

I think a better way to handle it would be you get access to a normal suite of tuning options at the beginning. Then the car xp points or whatever can unlock special tuning parts or, as I suggested before, rare body kits, engine swaps, special cosmetic pieces. Don't make the regular gameplay grindy, but give something special to the people who want to invest the time.

And are we 8 titles in and still we can't change anything about the interior in our built from the ground up race cars? This isn't limited to FM titles, but come on. NFS Shift did this better more than a decade ago.

 

[nukleabomb]

unlock special tuning parts or, as I suggested before, rare body kits, engine swaps,

you will end up with the same multiplayer complaints because these upgrades might be required to make a car competitive.

 

[JDMKING13]

And are we 8 titles in and still we can't change anything about the interior in our built from the ground up race cars? This isn't limited to FM titles, but come on. NFS Shift did this better more than a decade ago.

Man I was so disappointed when he went over the exhaust option for the new Z and the exhaust didn’t change… granted the exhaust doesn’t look bad on the Z, but when you take a old Silvia for example and have it at 500HP… the stock exhaust makes me wanna cry. 😢 I am praying we can paint the brake calipers and maybe add window stickers, but I don’t know.. they haven’t said anything about the livery editor.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

you will end up with the same multiplayer complaints because these upgrades might be required to make a car competitive.

I disagree. Cars have arbitrary performance points. It'll just make it difficult to use the same car as somebody who has invested more time into a particular model...but that seems like the correct outcome. Say you have two players both with 370zs

Player A has used their 370z for 200+ online races and has spent serious time adjusting the tune, creating their own livery and hotlapping to get really proficient at driving it, extracting as much as possible

Player B just picked up a 370z and eh, lets just see how it is, finds a design and tune online and rolls with it.

I think rewarding player A with the ability to achieve a higher state of tune with their Z is a great way to add connection to the game and make players actually care about stuff.

However, I don't think limiting player B to a handful of basic mods at the start is the right move either.

 

[JDMKING13]

I disagree. Cars have arbitrary performance points. It'll just make it difficult to use the same car as somebody who has invested more time into a particular model...but that seems like the correct outcome. Say you have two players both with 370zs

Player A has used their 370z for 200+ online races and has spent serious time adjusting the tune, creating their own livery and hotlapping to get really proficient at driving it, extracting as much as possible

Player B just picked up a 370z and eh, lets just see how it is, finds a design and tune online and rolls with it.

I think rewarding player A with the ability to achieve a higher state of tune with their Z is a great way to add connection to the game and make players actually care about stuff.

However, I don't think limiting player B to a handful of basic mods at the start is the right move either.

I honestly like the Idea the boys at Turn 10 did with this.. I mean just in everyday life the more work you put in you typically get better results… My biggest problem which I said in the other thread I like to tune multiple of the same car! If I max out a 370Z and buy another one I would like to have the upgrades available from the start…. To have to take the same car and bring it up to mad level is going to be tough… I will do it but it’s kinda going to be annoying.