Forza Motorsport General Discussion Thread

[nukleabomb]

I disagree. Cars have arbitrary performance points. It'll just make it difficult to use the same car as somebody who has invested more time into a particular model...but that seems like the correct outcome. Say you have two players both with 370zs

Player A has used their 370z for 200+ online races and has spent serious time adjusting the tune, creating their own livery and hotlapping to get really proficient at driving it, extracting as much as possible

Player B just picked up a 370z and eh, lets just see how it is, finds a design and tune online and rolls with it.

I think rewarding player A with the ability to achieve a higher state of tune with their Z is a great way to add connection to the game and make players actually care about stuff.

However, I don't think limiting player B to a handful of basic mods at the start is the right move either.

I agree to some extent. The only reason i can see this working out is because it only takes about an hour to unlock all possible parts for the car you want to try out. Hotlapping while incrementally upgrading a car, on its own, would unlock most of the upgrades for the car (barring engine swaps and conversions). A little bit of tweaking might be required, like halving the time it takes to obtain parts for each car. Afaik, car points are untransferrable between cars, so you will need to Lvl 50 a car before max-ing it.

My biggest problem which I said in the other thread I like to tune multiple of the same car! If we max out a 370Z if I buy another one I would like to have the upgrades available from the start…. To have to take the same car and bring it up to mad level is going to be tough… I will do it but it’s kinda going to be annoying.

They should probably match the car level for the second car, or reduces the amount of Car XP required to Level up the second car.

 

[ImaRobot]

And are we 8 titles in and still we can't change anything about the interior in our built from the ground up race cars? This isn't limited to FM titles, but come on. NFS Shift did this better more than a decade ago.

And then basically never again since then. Wonder why not at this point, seems like something that would easily please more people than it would dissatisfy them. Customization should be bumped up in general, tbh.

 

[nukleabomb]

 

[lurkn4k]

unfinished build is unfinished build

 

[skazz]

Comparing FM7 and FH5 on the same Series X with the same HDR screen, I will say that FM7 only manages to have realistic lighting on other cars at certain times of day.

In FM7 with HDR enabled and tuned, mid morning or mid afternoon seems decent lighting - car paint and parts look reasonably realistic. Midday always looks a bit weird, you get the plastic colours from earlier Forza Motorsports in there. Dawn/Dusk looks quite plastic, and night time looks very strange and plastic.

FH5, in comparison, manages to look realistic at pretty much any time of day. It's extremely rare to get that traditional Forza plastic effect from the lighting model on cars.


So unless FM(8) goes backwards from FH5, I'm expecting a good lighting model which handles all times of day with decent realistic looking visuals, rather than the plastic we see most of the time in FM7 or in some shots of the FM(8) demo.

 

[Dave A]

because of its car variety, custom lobbies, community features, generally bug free experience and more. Not the career mode. The only aspect of career mode that is praised is that it starts you with slow cars, unlike the newer games.

FM7 is significantly more open than FM4, because you can jump into any type of car class/car type to start the career mode including Mclaren f1s and 60s Formula 1 cars. IT was essentially FM4s event list posing as a career mode, with even more events.

In fact leading up to the reveal of FM, lots of comments could be found saying FM3 and FM2 had better single player career mode. There are yT reviews or retrospectives saying the same.

I respectfully dissagree but you have made a couple of points I like.

I was a day 1 player of FM4 and frequented the forums and FM4 was highly regarded for the number of events and being able to jump into what you wanted, when you wanted. You had to work through the slower cars for sure, which wasn't the case in FM7. However, FM4 was praised for the things you mention, but it was also praised for it's single player career mode. Highly praised for it in fact.

And that tallys with Gran Turismo 3 and 4, both of which are highly regarded, in fact, often regarded as the pinnacle of the Gran Turismo series, yet neither boast the htings you spoke of. They all share that core gameplay structure, Gran Turismo's wasn't as open as FM4's, it had licenses to contend with as well, but within a small set of parameters you were very free to buy what you could afford and tune it how you wanted and race it in a wide variety of events you didn't have to complete in a specific order.

FM7 wasn't unrestrictive in what cars you could own and tune, but it was restrictive in the homologation system. FM4 didn't have that. So you can say FM7 was more open in terms of throwing cars at you, but it's career mode was far more restrictive than FM4's. You had to complete events in somewhat of a certain order, rising through the leagues, which was fine, but the homologation system killed tuninig cars to what you wanted outside of the custom race mode and you were not free to enter one car into a wide variety of events as you were in FM1-4.

People may say FM2 and 3 had better career modes than 4, that's fine, but it further proves my point since those games were also very open in their approach to single player gameplay.

How are you going to know whether something is better or worse in practice until you try it? You say this as if it's an easy thing to determine when it often isn't. If this doesn't work out of the gates then they'll either iterate on it or try something else next time

In the same way I know I don't like banofee pie without eating it first. But sure, it could work better than I'm anticipating, I'm just seeing a very linear grindfest so far and I know I'll hate that. Completing events in a specific order for example goes back to pre-Gran Turismo gameplay loops. The car turning sounds like a grind. It just doesn't sound good to me.

As far as them iterating on it, I'd love to see them actually do that if the game turns out to be as I fear it will, and enough people don't like the format. But such core gameplay loops are hard to change. Not impossible, but to assume they would change them if it didn't work is premature. I would paise them if they did, but I wouldn't expect them to do it.

 

[ProjectWHaT]

• Most parts will be unlocked by around level 30 with engine and drivetrain swaps coming last (4:16)
• Reaching level 30 takes about an hour and two to three hours to reach level 50 (4:35)
• No random drops, no wheelspins (8:40)
• Slipstream is more effective in game than real life, the range is longer, wake is wider, and drop in air resistance greater than real life (16:57)
• You will lose grip after running off track, but it is toned down for it to be more accessible (17:16)
• No granular traction control or ABS settings, just a on-off toggle (18:20)

 

[Beebo]

I've had some time to collect my thoughts about things we haven't seen yet:

I really do hope one of the future streams touches on if community features like FM4's features make a return, I'd love to see painters be able to sell their paints once again, even limiting numbers on some of the limited edition ones. Generally would also love to see some upgrades to the livery editor that let you paint over trim/chrome, and maybe some limited window sticker capability, I would maybe even forgive the use of ancient models if it meant they've implemented things like that. I'll be pretty disappointed if they've not upgraded the livery editor at all. Even if there were no new customization pieces, window stickers and being able to paint over trim would work wonders for personalizing your cars!

Also hope they haven't deleted the auction house again haha, it contrasts to what Chris was saying about getting to know your car and such. It'd let you skip all the leveling of cars, and for that reason I'm worried they deleted the AH.

I hope they aren't using careful wording on us with that Corvette customization; and I hope there's at least a few wing options for most cars, plus some expanded customization. Even if it comes post-launch that's fine, there's quite a few cars in-game and you can't reasonably expect every single one to have customization bits made for it.

Also, I'm hoping their post-launch content isn't going to mirror FH5's FOMO path. There's so many cars in FH5 that I missed because I was too busy with work or life in general, and now I can't drive them ingame because of that. Not unless I fight with the auction house that is.

All in all, I just think I'll be disappointed if a few particularly aging features aren't upgraded like the livery editor and such, and hopefully we get FH5's upgraded photomode!

 

[Fezzik]

No granular traction control or ABS settings, just a on-off toggle (18:20)

That’s a bit disappointing, I do adjust the TC a lot in the GT7 cars that need it. Even real life race cars have it adjustable.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

I've had some time to collect my thoughts about things we haven't seen yet:

I really do hope one of the future streams touches on if community features like FM4's features make a return, I'd love to see painters be able to sell their paints once again, even limiting numbers on some of the limited edition ones. Generally would also love to see some upgrades to the livery editor that let you paint over trim/chrome, and maybe some limited window sticker capability, I would maybe even forgive the use of ancient models if it meant they've implemented things like that. I'll be pretty disappointed if they've not upgraded the livery editor at all. Even if there were no new customization pieces, window stickers and being able to paint over trim would work wonders for personalizing your cars!

Also hope they haven't deleted the auction house again haha, it contrasts to what Chris was saying about getting to know your car and such. It'd let you skip all the leveling of cars, and for that reason I'm worried they deleted the AH.

I hope they aren't using careful wording on us with that Corvette customization; and I hope there's at least a few wing options for most cars, plus some expanded customization. Even if it comes post-launch that's fine, there's quite a few cars in-game and you can't reasonably expect every single one to have customization bits made for it.

Also, I'm hoping their post-launch content isn't going to mirror FH5's FOMO path. There's so many cars in FH5 that I missed because I was too busy with work or life in general, and now I can't drive them ingame because of that. Not unless I fight with the auction house that is.

All in all, I just think I'll be disappointed if a few particularly aging features aren't upgraded like the livery editor and such, and hopefully we get FH5's upgraded photomode!

Every time T10 uses very narrow and careful language I'm suspicious. I'm still suspicious of "ray-tracing on track" which I think they wanted everyone to understand as "ray-tracing in gameplay" but without being obligated to actually provide that. I genuinely wonder if it will be relegated to replays (hey, it's still on track!) like it is in GT7.

 

[Bogie 19th]

Every time T10 uses very narrow and careful language I'm suspicious. I'm still suspicious of "ray-tracing on track" which I think they wanted everyone to understand as "ray-tracing in gameplay" but without being obligated to actually provide that. I genuinely wonder if it will be relegated to replays (hey, it's still on track!) like it is in GT7.

"Ray tracing's here. It's on-track, and most importantly, it's real-time gameplay. I really want to make that clear. When we say on-track, we don't mean it's only in replays or Photo Mode on-track and [we're] being funny with words - we're not trying to mislead you here.

When you are racing, when you are playing the game, ray tracing is on." - Chris Esaki

During this Forza Monthly:

 

[uMattzz]

Some topics
Car progress is good, but it should be shared in the same car, for the simple reason that you have already "Learned and Mastered it", and it should also be shared in similar cars, such as the V8 Supercars and Indycars, and the Cadillac V. Standard and Whelen Series Versions
In Multiplayer, Forza Race Regulations should Homologate race cars at Tier 1, Because they are already Homologated by the Regulatory Bodies and have BOP by Default

 

[Beebo]

I've heard some people suggest that maybe instead of being per-car, it could be per-car type, or per-division? I feel like making it per-brand would make it a little too easy, but those other suggestions might work.

 

[warp9engage]

Now, I just want to know about Free Play. I hope it will be the sandbox part of FM. You can just go in, pick any stock car, one of the stock color options, any track and have fun racing.

While the concept of a car building career is interesting, as someone who prefers to drive stock cars, it's kind of a miss for me. If Free Play is like I hope, I'll be spending pretty much all of my time there. And it's a good thing it will be available offline.

I wonder, if Free Play gives you access to driving any car, will new cars added in the Builders Cup also drop into Free Play, in stock form?

 

[uMattzz]

I've heard some people suggest that maybe instead of being per-car, it could be per-car type, or per-division? I feel like making it per-brand would make it a little too easy, but those other suggestions might work.

It should be shared in case of Equal cars, When they are just Skins, or Spec cars From Racing Series
From the Gameplay, it seems that it will be very easy to level up, a long time less than 2 or 3 Hours, but if you had several cars of the same brand in the level maximum, it should be easier to level up with others, because after all Platforms are often shared

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

"Ray tracing's here. It's on-track, and most importantly, it's real-time gameplay. I really want to make that clear. When we say on-track, we don't mean it's only in replays or Photo Mode on-track and [we're] being funny with words - we're not trying to mislead you here.

When you are racing, when you are playing the game, ray tracing is on." - Chris Esaki

During this Forza Monthly:

Fair enough, but its still pretty cryptic. Ray tracing is on. What does that mean exactly? From the latest gameplay footage, it doesn't appear to be reflections. I think this was a hedge when Chris first said it because they weren't sure what type of ray tracing would fit within the performance budget for the game. Are we left with just RTGI while racing? I just wish they would be straight forward, its always jargon and buzzwords with this team.

 

[Populuxe]

Fair enough, but its still pretty cryptic. Ray tracing is on. What does that mean exactly? From the latest gameplay footage, it doesn't appear to be reflections. I think this was a hedge when Chris first said it because they weren't sure what type of ray tracing would fit within the performance budget for the game. Are we left with just RTGI while racing? I just wish they would be straight forward, its always jargon and buzzwords with this team.

Sorry, not trying to be mean-spirited. It just sounds like you're grasping for reasons to doubt Chris Esaki. And maybe you'll be proven right in time. But for now, let's have a little faith.

 

[SU_Tempest]

Now, I just want to know about Free Play. I hope it will be the sandbox part of FM. You can just go in, pick any stock car, one of the stock color options, any track and have fun racing.

While the concept of a car building career is interesting, as someone who prefers to drive stock cars, it's kind of a miss for me. If Free Play is like I hope, I'll be spending pretty much all of my time there. And it's a good thing it will be available offline.

I wonder, if Free Play gives you access to driving any car, will new cars added in the Builders Cup also drop into Free Play, in stock form?

Nothing suggests you have to install parts you unlock, especially if they maintain the idea that AI car PIs adapt to yours. That is, of course, unless the events they do implement have minimum PI requirements or require specific parts installed. (Which I would actually really like.)

 

[meganinja]

the Dodge Demon and the ACR Viper GTS-R are confirmed

When I say Modern I mean cars that came after that, like the Last Call editions or the Dodge Hornet

 

[Tornado]

Welp. If they are going to go even further away from taking the franchise back to Forza 4 with this "grind every individual car to unlock upgrades" nonsense, I guess I'm going to take a pass on this one. Hated it in Enthusia, and I can't imagine I wouldn't hate it even more in a game that's still structured like a GT game otherwise. This seems like something PD would do to push Microtransactions (pay $5 for a level 50 ticket!) but Turn10 doesn't even have the greed excuse to do something so poorly thought out.

There were a ton of complaints about the single player being aimless with no goal other than just buying cars and upgrading them to win races. It was one of the constant complaints regarding the single player for FM7

Provide one (1) example of someone doing this; particularly in regards to Forza 7 and it's frequently hated homologation system.

Literally no one said "graphics look significantly better"; we are talking about an increase in resolution and turning on ray tracing.

Four months of development is a lot of optimization on the table; I know exactly what optimization and polishing means.

They gonna "optimize" the ported 360 models too?

 

[mynameis66]

Hopefully we will have proper replays,the ones in FH5 are pretty poor with no real replay cameras.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Welp. If they are going to go even further away from taking the franchise back to Forza 4 with this "grind every individual car to unlock upgrades" nonsense, I guess I'm going to take a pass on this one. Hated it in Enthusia, and I can't imagine I wouldn't hate it any more in a game that's still structured like a GT game otherwise. This seems like something PD would do to push Microtransactions (pay $5 for a level 50 ticket!) but Turn10 doesn't even have the greed excuse to do something so poorly thought out.




Provide one (1) example of someone doing this; particularly in regards to Forza 7.


They gonna "optimize" the ported 360 models too?

Just add more triangles, that'll fix it.

 

[turk1993]

you might have a point

they've changed the forza suppoert page again

it went from this (after the xbox showcase):

View attachment 1264951

to this (after yesterday's Forza Monthy):
View attachment 1264952

My guess is that, since the game is still undergoing performance tweaks, they have it disabled. But being vague is going to really play against them. And having a month between each info drop is again going to let rumours of both overexpections as well as disdain for choices.


They could also be fearing blowback for "the most powerful gaming console" running their flagship racer with basic RT reflections, while PC gets to enjoy a significantly more advanced RT Global Illumination System.

 

[meganinja]

This seems like something PD would do to push Microtransactions (pay $5 for a level 50 ticket!) but Turn10 doesn't even have the greed excuse to do something so poorly thought out.

Confirmed no MTX in game, they said over and over and over

 

[Beebo]

I know the official confirmed car list isn't near complete yet, but not seeing a single TVR on there irks me a bit. I really hope they haven't cut it for being a more obscure brand.

 

[Morbid65]

I saw on the race results page they showed there is still the triangle & exclamation point icon for invalidated lap times. If that is for track limit violation and collisions, that's ok. But I really hope they've done away with invalidating lap times just because you've drafted off of another car. That was always so stupid to me. What racing series anywhere invalidates lap times due to catching a draft?

I agree that is kind of annoying, but I'm pretty sure they just do it as an easy/lazy way to make sure the times don't post to the leaderboard. If draft times went to the leaderboard, then Rivals mode would be useless and you would always need at least one other person to draft off in a multiplayer lobby if you had any hopes of posting a time near the top of the boards.

A better solution would be to keep the little exclamation hazard for cutting and contact, but have a little D symbol or something that shows whether the lap had draft. If the lap doesn't have the exclamation mark but does have the D, then it counts as a clean time in-lobby for organizing the grid and stuff, but just won't post to the leaderboards.

Drafting would be a fun and interesting thing to add for qualifying sessions, as it allows teammates to work together and puts some strategy in how you find clear track to use, but also has a risk/reward because the car you are using to draft could hold you up or a make a mistake in front of you and mess your lap up. No way it would work for public races though, as if collisions were on for qualifying people would just deliberately block people so their time can't be beat, as we see in other titles that do collisions in qualifying.

I honestly like the Idea the boys at Turn 10 did with this.. I mean just in everyday life the more work you put in you typically get better results… My biggest problem which I said in the other thread I like to tune multiple of the same car! If I max out a 370Z and buy another one I would like to have the upgrades available from the start…. To have to take the same car and bring it up to mad level is going to be tough… I will do it but it’s kinda going to be annoying.

But it's a racing game, why can't the "work" you put in be practicing and learning to drive and race better instead of being artificially limited by the parts you have available?

I fully agree with the multiple copies of the same car stuff though, surely there has to be a way for them to make it apply to that model for any future copies purchased and not just single cars in your garage. I don't get what the upside of making people grind the same car multiple times is, I can't think of a way to spin that into anything positive for anyone.

Also hope they haven't deleted the auction house again haha, it contrasts to what Chris was saying about getting to know your car and such. It'd let you skip all the leveling of cars, and for that reason I'm worried they deleted the AH.

I dunno, if it's going to work like FH5 then I'd rather it went away. The "master" painter/tuner thing is a joke, and it has become a "rich get richer" thing where people hoard limited cars and snipe them so that normal players can't afford/find the cars they missed out on.

Also, I'm hoping their post-launch content isn't going to mirror FH5's FOMO path. There's so many cars in FH5 that I missed because I was too busy with work or life in general, and now I can't drive them ingame because of that. Not unless I fight with the auction house that is.

Big +1 there, and if they want this game to be a strong multiplayer title, whether public lobbies, organized leagues, or more e-sports style events, they can't have potential leaderboard cars locked away behind time limited events that may not return.

 

[ScottPuss20]

Fair enough, but its still pretty cryptic. Ray tracing is on. What does that mean exactly? From the latest gameplay footage, it doesn't appear to be reflections. I think this was a hedge when Chris first said it because they weren't sure what type of ray tracing would fit within the performance budget for the game. Are we left with just RTGI while racing? I just wish they would be straight forward, its always jargon and buzzwords with this team.

You sound like Jordan Peterson.

 

[Beebo]

I dunno, if it's going to work like FH5 then I'd rather it went away. The "master" painter/tuner thing is a joke, and it has become a "rich get richer" thing where people hoard limited cars and snipe them so that normal players can't afford/find the cars they missed out on.

Big agree here. The "Legendary" painter thing is a complete joke, and I think it was a bandaid fix for not being able to sell paints directly anymore.

 

[whannel]

If they are going to enable RT in final version. Then they have to drop res to something like 1440P and then upscale to 4K, or run at 30fps or dowgrade the LOD. It depends on the quality of RT.

Looks like some parts of previous trailers were even using 1080p? I'm guessing for Series S this might go as low as 540p?

And RT'd Global Illimunation wouldn't be 'on track' in any version including PC? (although maybe in future?)

I guess if/when they finally upgrade xCloud to more than 1080p (once the Activision deal falls through?) we'll all be playing it in full RT 8K 120fps, right? Pretty sure elements of their abandoned Flight Sim were streamed, why not Forza?

Think we'll need another Digital Foundry breakdown of the latest offering, it's hard to keep track.

 

[Tornado]

Confirmed no MTX in game, they said over and over and over

Yes. I, uh, noted that.