Forza Motorsport General Discussion Thread

[whannel]

Is this a car we're getting?

 

[RolexGTP]

Looks like one of the '70s F1 cars in game, the Lotus?

 

[-Fred-]

It's the Mclaren, as evidenced by the brand's crest in the lower right corner.

 

[Morbid65]

Im almost losing faith that T10 will fully flesh out the AI to the point where they are near perfect. They are better then release and even 6 months ago but still having issues.

Probably best to give up on that, I think it's a very unreasonable expectation to think they will ever get it "near perfect." There isn't a racing game out there that has what I would even consider "great" AI and despite all the AI advancements that are being made nowadays it doesn't seem like racing game AI has been making much in the way of progress. It hasn't really even been keeping up with the other advancements to the overall racing game "experience" (on a technical level, in-game systems/content, or peripherals) that are being made.

Although it has surely improved if you compared it head to head, I personally don't really find AI any more engaging/believable/immersive now than I did 25 years ago (although surely some of that is because of some combination of rose tinted glasses/revisionist history/suspension of disbelief)... If anything, I find it less engaging as the other areas of the games have stepped up and are more immersive, making it more obvious/irritating when AI are braking for flat corners, coming to a complete stop at turn 1, blatantly ignoring tire wear, divebombing lead lap cars while being lapped, and etc.

Not that the AI in every game is completely awful, but every one of them has some obvious scenarios where they struggle horribly and/or use some "magic" to make up for their lack of ability. Yes, there are some people at certain skill levels that happen to line up with certain difficulty settings to have a decent race, but if it only works for certain narrow skill ranges then I personally don't consider that "great" by any means.

I haven't experienced all of the AI out there as I don't have some titles, the only game that I can think of that I would consider has pretty good AI is Wreckfest, and it's only because the AI there at least matches the spirit of the game and the way humans play the game; some of them are fast-ish and focus on being fast, some focus on being aggressive, some are slow and wobbly, and some just want to watch the world burn.

I tend to forget it a bit as I haven't played an F1 game since... 2017? But I do remember it having fairly believable feeling AI for my very limited play time on it, but with such short time spent maybe I just didn't experience their quirks enough to identify them. I'd assume it has improved a bit since then too though.

 

[AttackDickie]

Can you please mention the exact parameters to see if I can duplicate the conditions? (track, time of day, weather condition and car used).

Brands Hatch, thin haze, (might have been thin haze to clear) Toyota MR2 GT. (Can't remember the time of day, but it wasn't night or evening, maybe morning.)

Im almost losing faith that T10 will fully flesh out the AI to the point where they are near perfect. They are better then release and even 6 months ago but still having issues.

What makes you say that?

Nah, I had the same thought after doing this same race a few times. And this was the cleanest run, where I forced the AI to limit their PI. T10 admitted years ago the drivertar system is flawed. I think the problem is it works too well at reflecting the average Forza multiplayer race.

 

[RolexGTP]

Probably best to give up on that, I think it's a very unreasonable expectation to think they will ever get it "near perfect." There isn't a racing game out there that has what I would even consider "great" AI and despite all the AI advancements that are being made nowadays it doesn't seem like racing game AI has been making much in the way of progress. It hasn't really even been keeping up with the other advancements to the overall racing game "experience" (on a technical level, in-game systems/content, or peripherals) that are being made.

Although it has surely improved if you compared it head to head, I personally don't really find AI any more engaging/believable/immersive now than I did 25 years ago (although surely some of that is because of some combination of rose tinted glasses/revisionist history/suspension of disbelief)... If anything, I find it less engaging as the other areas of the games have stepped up and are more immersive, making it more obvious/irritating when AI are braking for flat corners, coming to a complete stop at turn 1, blatantly ignoring tire wear, divebombing lead lap cars while being lapped, and etc.

Not that the AI in every game is completely awful, but every one of them has some obvious scenarios where they struggle horribly and/or use some "magic" to make up for their lack of ability. Yes, there are some people at certain skill levels that happen to line up with certain difficulty settings to have a decent race, but if it only works for certain narrow skill ranges then I personally don't consider that "great" by any means.

I haven't experienced all of the AI out there as I don't have some titles, the only game that I can think of that I would consider has pretty good AI is Wreckfest, and it's only because the AI there at least matches the spirit of the game and the way humans play the game; some of them are fast-ish and focus on being fast, some focus on being aggressive, some are slow and wobbly, and some just want to watch the world burn.

I tend to forget it a bit as I haven't played an F1 game since... 2017? But I do remember it having fairly believable feeling AI for my very limited play time on it, but with such short time spent maybe I just didn't experience their quirks enough to identify them. I'd assume it has improved a bit since then too though.

I think the AI in PC2 was pretty damn good but then again there was two sliders for AI which one was aggressiveness.

Brands Hatch, thin haze, (might have been thin haze to clear) Toyota MR2 GT. (Can't remember the time of day, but it wasn't night or evening, maybe morning.)

What makes you say that?

View attachment 1405222

Nah, I had the same thought after doing this same race a few times. And this was the cleanest run, where I forced the AI to limit their PI. T10 admitted years ago the drivertar system is flawed. I think the problem is it works too well at reflecting the average Forza multiplayer race.

It seems like since they started "fixing" the AI it's like one step forward and one step back. Soon as they correct one issue another one pops up. You can see the improvements in them since the game released but then after multiple updates issues like brake checking and random early race pileups still occur and both of which is something they addressed. I'm thinking something in their AI coding is not ironed out still, idk maybe early 2025 they will get the AI where they want it but for now there's still some repetitive issues.

 

[Nacho Libre]

Yeah, the loading times are a pain..

View attachment 1404531

On a serious note, the graphics in RT performance suffer when you add weather effects.
Did a foggy race and the car's spoiler had jaggies in chase cam, the driver's leg had jaggies in the cockpit view and the dash had artifacts/shimmering in the driver view. Thought it might be due to an old car model but that all went away in performance mode.

After trying to reproduce those conditions, I do agree that performance mode produces the sharper look, but personally I don't want to get back. I did not spot jaggies in chase cam, but I did catch the artifacts/shimmering in cockpit view, which are just ray-tracing noise because there are no sufficient rays to form a cohesive image on those surfaces, and it also happens on PC unfortunately, but is less pronounced than before.

 

[Nacho Libre]

Well, I found this video of Chris Esaki from about one year ago, certainly not to open old wounds, but to reflect on the progress of the game so far.

The AI system he discusses, from 6:36 I don't think we ever got to see it and they had to resort to a default system due to undisclosed issues... Maybe it got sentient, who knows? And the graphics/lighting looked so flat in the video (I know, its YouTube) but now the difference is really striking.

Lastly, I do want to give him some deserved props. He promised the game would evolve with the community over time and it has, and corrections have been made. The driving is great (assists off, simulation steering, please try it), and yeah, we can fall in love with our cars. So, wherever you are, Mr. Esaki, here's to you.

 

[UKMikey]

If the experimental Drivatars have become sentient perhaps they could ask them to take over the development of the franchise, lol.

 

[Nacho Libre]

If the experimental Drivatars have become sentient perhaps they could ask them to take over the development of the franchise, lol.

They wanted to, but Microsoft only wants external contractors these days, so they were laid-off.

 

[Scaff]

It's been a long time coming, but here's my FM 2023 Review.

 

[UKMikey]

It's been a long time coming, but here's my FM 2023 Review.

Have you tried turning the radar on in the driving aids menu yet? It doesn't fix the AI behaviour but it may aid further with gauging when dangerous Drivatars are in the general vicinity of your car (its oft-quoted and uncanny resemblance to a Pong mini game notwithstanding).

Please don't feel you have to make every video a live commentary to keep up with the youngsters but it's nice to have the option especially on the longer fifteen-plus lap marathons with tyre wear and pitting.

As one commenter remarks it's nice to put a face to the voice and you look kind of like I expected even if I thought I'd loaded up a Roger Whittaker music video by mistake.

 

[sirjim73]

Here's a picture of this month's "Autumn Camo" racing suit...

Here's a preview picture of next month's suit ...

Also, more importantly, i have been setting up Advanced Free Play races to complete the "25 laps" challenges".

Apart from the guffaw every time i see "[Group Text] at the end of every race (i mean how bad IS the QA in this game - any single developer playing ONE SINGLE Advanced Free Play race can't possibly miss this), here's something I noticed...
"Downloads - 0"

Now, as far as I know, there is NO way to download other players Advanced Free play races in the game CURRENTLY (correct me if i am wrong!). Has this always been shown or is it recent?

This has to be linked to the upcoming Player "share hub" right?

Is this already mentioned in the blogpost or somewhere? If not, is this worthy of a newspost @AudiMan2011 @Famine ? I mean, this is not speculation - it's specifically in the game itself - whilst we may not know when, i'd say its definitely coming?

 

[UKMikey]

Now, as far as I know, there is NO way to download other players Advanced Free play races in the game CURRENTLY (correct me if i am wrong!). Has this always been shown or is it recent?

This has to be linked to the upcoming Player "share hub" right?

Fixing the anorexic single player career by getting us all to create user generated content might be a good idea. I'd be a lot happier if Free Play races had a choice of Challenge The Grid or qualifying to determine start position rather than "back, middle or front" though.

 

[RolexGTP]

Here's a picture of this month's "Autumn Camo" racing suit...
View attachment 1405843
Here's a preview picture of next month's suit ...
View attachment 1405844

Also, more importantly, i have been setting up Advanced Free Play races to complete the "25 laps" challenges".

Apart from the guffaw every time i see "[Group Text] at the end of every race (i mean how bad IS the QA in this game - any single developer playing ONE SINGLE Advanced Free Play race can't possibly miss this), here's something I noticed...
"Downloads - 0"
View attachment 1405845

Now, as far as I know, there is NO way to download other players Advanced Free play races in the game CURRENTLY (correct me if i am wrong!). Has this always been shown or is it recent?

This has to be linked to the upcoming Player "share hub" right?

Is this already mentioned in the blogpost or somewhere? If not, is this worthy of a newspost @AudiMan2011 @Famine ? I mean, this is not speculation - it's specifically in the game itself - whilst we may not know when, i'd say its definitely coming?

This "download" selection has been there I believe since the game released so I imagine sooner or later we will be able to share our freeplay setups. I have some good ones I want to share with the community so im just waiting for them to drop that. It would also make sense they do it for the share hub update which could come as soon as next month.

 

[Nacho Libre]

It's been a long time coming, but here's my FM 2023 Review.

Thanks, I enjoyed your review with my Sunday morning cuppa of coffee. It sounds like you really want to give it an IGN 7 overall, and fortunately you tested it in its current state and not at launch.

About your setup, I do have a 4070 too, but a Super model and I run with raytracing on at 90-100 fps on average (no frame generation or DLSS.) I know the Super is a bit stronger than the regular 4070, but I'm also thinking if the CPU has anything to do with the overall performance. However, from what I've seen the game is not CPU dependant.

Lastly, I do agree that the game should accrue events instead of just having this time-based format. However, as new tracks are added, the base content changes and includes them into the rotation, so they are worth a revisit from time to time.

 

[sirjim73]

This "download" selection has been there I believe since the game released so I imagine sooner or later we will be able to share our freeplay setups. I have some good ones I want to share with the community so im just waiting for them to drop that. It would also make sense they do it for the share hub update which could come as soon as next month.

Thanks for that. I had obviously missed it previously.

Regarding the share hub, that might be waiting for the download restrictions to be resolved. This month they removed the Autosave tunes from the 450 maximum which is clearly part of the prep for it (imagine the backlash if the share hub released and no-one could actually share tunes still because their allocation of tunes was already used up by Autosaves).

There are limitations with the number of designs too I believe (although they were supposedly removed, it has caused an issue with transfer of Horizon designs because the restriction still applies at the other end). So they might actually have to wait for PG to resolve that first.

I think the share hub will come when T10 get to whichever update achieves dealing with most of the more glaring issues on sharing. I suspect that it is coming very soon though.

 

[Vince_GT]

Thake this as a grain of salt.
Some riddles about the cars you will find in the next update:

Spoiler: Riddles Next Update

1) "A last-generation video game console, but instead of having as a bundle a useless device at launch, it has a V8 under the hood." 2) "On the other side of the world, they called it The Blue Meanie; it's up to you to discover why this car is so beloved in Australia." 3) "It's a special vehicle and also the United Kingdom have got the chance to get this car" 4) "Peter Brock, a famous Australian driver, faced a Kaijuu aboard this." 5)"A peculiarity of the Australian Car market: doing groceries and working with sports car-level performance, while the police can even use it for high-speed chases. (This are two cars of the same category)" 6) "The last V8 Interceptor, but it's another trim"

 

[PJTierney]

Thake this as a grain of salt.
Some riddles about the cars you will find in the next update:

Spoiler: Riddles Next Update

1) "A last-generation video game console, but instead of having as a bundle a useless device at launch, it has a V8 under the hood." 2) "On the other side of the world, they called it The Blue Meanie; it's up to you to discover why this car is so beloved in Australia." 3) "It's a special vehicle and also the United Kingdom have got the chance to get this car" 4) "Peter Brock, a famous Australian driver, faced a Kaijuu aboard this." 5)"A peculiarity of the Australian Car market: doing groceries and working with sports car-level performance, while the police can even use it for high-speed chases. (This are two cars of the same category)" 6) "The last V8 Interceptor, but it's another trim"

Where are these from?

 

[Nacho Libre]

Thake this as a grain of salt.
Some riddles about the cars you will find in the next update:

Spoiler: Riddles Next Update

1) "A last-generation video game console, but instead of having as a bundle a useless device at launch, it has a V8 under the hood." 2) "On the other side of the world, they called it The Blue Meanie; it's up to you to discover why this car is so beloved in Australia." 3) "It's a special vehicle and also the United Kingdom have got the chance to get this car" 4) "Peter Brock, a famous Australian driver, faced a Kaijuu aboard this." 5)"A peculiarity of the Australian Car market: doing groceries and working with sports car-level performance, while the police can even use it for high-speed chases. (This are two cars of the same category)" 6) "The last V8 Interceptor, but it's another trim"

Where did these came from? no. 4 is clearly Nissan's Godzilla GT-R. For no. 1 the Genesis G80 first gen? I agree with @UKMikey that the Blue Meanie is the Holden Commodore SS VK Group A. No. 6 is the Ford Falcon XB. My guess for no. 5 is the HSV GTS.

 

[UKMikey]

Number 2 would appear to be the 1985 Holden Commodore SS VK Group A?

 

[RolexGTP]

Thake this as a grain of salt.
Some riddles about the cars you will find in the next update:

Spoiler: Riddles Next Update

1) "A last-generation video game console, but instead of having as a bundle a useless device at launch, it has a V8 under the hood." 2) "On the other side of the world, they called it The Blue Meanie; it's up to you to discover why this car is so beloved in Australia." 3) "It's a special vehicle and also the United Kingdom have got the chance to get this car" 4) "Peter Brock, a famous Australian driver, faced a Kaijuu aboard this." 5)"A peculiarity of the Australian Car market: doing groceries and working with sports car-level performance, while the police can even use it for high-speed chases. (This are two cars of the same category)" 6) "The last V8 Interceptor, but it's another trim"

No. 5 could be the Holden HSV 427? But yeah where did this come from, insider info?

 

[UKMikey]

If it was written on the whiteboard at the back of the homespace this is brilliant marketing.

 

[sirjim73]

Number 2 would appear to be the 1985 Holden Commodore SS VK Group A?

The clue for that should be "64 retro consoles "

If this a leak from an "Insider" doing some kind of testing, they need to get identified and hammer banned otherwise Turn10 will potentially just cancel the insiders program altogether, which would be detrimental to everyone.

 

[UKMikey]

The clue for that should be "64 retro consoles "

That'd just make people think of Nintendo. The C64 wasn't a console. Maybe a better clue would something to do with a female Spanish friend.

If this a leak from an "Insider" doing some kind of testing, they need to get identified and hammer banned otherwise Turn10 will potentially just cancel the insiders program altogether, which would be detrimental to everyone.

That would indeed be tragic and self-destructive for the franchise but I doubt MS could fire them as their temp contract is probably up by now.