Forza

Maybe I am the only one here that reliazes, this thread is called "Forza", not which is better, how GT4 will "own", "spank", "be better than" or anything else than Forza. I think there is some text somewhere that says posts should be on topic.
-Just a thought? :grumpy:

P.S. Stop ragging on it you haven't even played the d*** thing.
 
I have to disagree with you there, this Forza thread is in the GT4 section of the site, the only way to validate it being here is to compare it with GT4. If you jusy want to discuss Forza without everyone having to compare it to GT4 theres Forza threads in the X-Box section of the site. I don't like people bashing Forza since it's not nearlt done yet but it a GT4 forum it's going to happen.
 
^^^ while I agree bashing is extreme, it doesn't say much for microsofts quality control if every demo they show is stripped down limited and full of bugs now is it.

And Code, what I ment by buggy and oversimplified was their programming tools. Bill said it himself, they are using common PC tools, which is why it's difficult to utilize all of the power, because they are programming like they would for a PC, and it ends up constricting a lot of things.

Just look at KOTOR II. Good game, terrible frame rate bugs and I've experienced many glitches and clipping problems, as well as load stops (where it starts to load, stops, then resumes again).

And I own two xbox's, US and Debug, as well as Three PS2's, and two gamecubes, both to include debug consoles. I'm not just talking out of my butt from fanboyism.

Forza can be good, but it won't have what GT4 has. And GT4 won't have what Forza has. IMO, they are two different games going for two different things.

GT4 is going for Variety, Automotive History, and Car enthusiasm.

Forza is playing off of what's popular right now. GT is highly anticipated, NFSU sells a lot...let's combine the two. A game that you can customize, while still having sim characteristics.

In other words. To me, I see GT as tried and true. I see Forza as a thing of today, but a memory tomorrow.
 
tha_con
^^^ while I agree bashing is extreme, it doesn't say much for microsofts quality control if every demo they show is stripped down limited and full of bugs now is it.

And Code, what I ment by buggy and oversimplified was their programming tools. Bill said it himself, they are using common PC tools, which is why it's difficult to utilize all of the power, because they are programming like they would for a PC, and it ends up constricting a lot of things.

Just look at KOTOR II. Good game, terrible frame rate bugs and I've experienced many glitches and clipping problems, as well as load stops (where it starts to load, stops, then resumes again).

And I own two xbox's, US and Debug, as well as Three PS2's, and two gamecubes, both to include debug consoles. I'm not just talking out of my butt from fanboyism.

Forza can be good, but it won't have what GT4 has. And GT4 won't have what Forza has. IMO, they are two different games going for two different things.

GT4 is going for Variety, Automotive History, and Car enthusiasm.

Forza is playing off of what's popular right now. GT is highly anticipated, NFSU sells a lot...let's combine the two. A game that you can customize, while still having sim characteristics.

In other words. To me, I see GT as tried and true. I see Forza as a thing of today, but a memory tomorrow.
Click to expand...

play the demo. tell us what you think.

I guarantee I'll get a laugh. You always try so hard.
 
battle_stage
It sucks....
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Considering it was practically BETA code, it was quite impressive. There were a number of things that sucked about it though. Especially the controls.

I was just asking tha_con because he goes to great lengths to bash a game he hasn't played, and that he supposedly doesn't care about. Seems like a waste of energy to me.
 
Ok Forza has:
- skidmarks
- visual damage
- optical tuning
- Porsche's and Ferrari's

but even then It can't beat the game of all games GT4!!!
Forza looks arcade when you see the video of it and also stupid that the cars have no license plates, GT4 solved that problem well with the name of the car as plate but the best would be that you can put your name (or IRL licenseplate number) on to it. It would be cool for the Photo Mode :)

But on the other hand if I had a XBOX also I would buy Forza!
 
Yep and your point of complaint is that Forza doesn't have number plates, racing cars don't have number plates. We won't know how it fares against GT4 gameplay wise until it's released, the concept of Forza is better than GT4's but it's graphics arn't which leaves the gameplay which is currently unknown.
 
kinigitt
play the demo. tell us what you think.

I guarantee I'll get a laugh. You always try so hard.
Click to expand...

I really do not understand why you are so negative towards me. I am simply expressing my opinions towards forza. And I do not want to play a demo, I want to play a build, but Microsoft will not send a build. Polyphony sent us a Copy of GT4, and is going to send us the US GT4 as well, no problem with it, but Microsoft refuses to send a build. We have privacy statements signed, yet they still refuse to send a build to anyone. They will send a demo, but not a build. That I do not like.

And how am I bashing this game to great lengths if all I'm doing is pointing out things that I believe are a waste of effort in a driving simulator. I'm not too concerned with how my car looks, as opposed to how it drives, I just want to make it as stable and balanced as possible, Forza does not have this focus, in fact it is very clear that they put a large emphasis on body kits and decals.

I'd say all of the same things about GT4 if GT had the same features, I do not think it has a place in a racing simulator. Regardless of how "bad" it makes your car perform.

GT4 simply is not capable of the many things forza can do, because it's on a weaker system, and there are things that forza does better, for instance, the AI. However, there are things that GT4 does better, for instance, the physics.

From every bit of video and media that I have recieved from microsoft, the physics APPEAR to have flaws. It looks great when the cars are on flat land, but the excessive floating that I've seen on more than one occasion is disturbing to me. Gravity is key with a racing game. If the Gravity isn't one of the main focus's of a physics engine, it will suffer in the end, maybe not to an extreme extent, but it can be exploited and ultimately the engine can suffer.

Believe me, I can go on and on about my nit picks with GT4 all day long. There is a lot that I am disappointed about, but hell, it's a lot of small stuff, things that don't matter, I enjoy the game anyway.

Forza on the other hand, while it has great potential to be an outstanding game, but I feel that microsoft isn't taking it quite as seriously as they could, more or less the general impression I get is to outdo GT4 and make sales on a console that is only enjoying success because PS2 has basically filled it's userbase.

But..take my opinion like a grain of salt, because that is all it is. :)
 
See, I'm perfectly happy accepting your comments as his opinion only, I'm also happy dissagreeing with them ;), but a comment like "GT4 simply is not capable of the many things forza can do, because it's on a weaker system, and there are things that forza does better, for instance, the AI. However, there are things that GT4 does better, for instance, the physics " is a statement, and it's also wrong, if you had played the demo you'd know the phyiscs are like GT4's but less forgiving with aids off, it's the controls that arn't as good.
 
tha_con
I am simply expressing my opinions towards forza. And I do not want to play a demo

From every bit of video and media that I have recieved from microsoft, the physics APPEAR to have flaws.
But..take my opinion like a grain of salt, because that is all it is. :)
Click to expand...

I think this is why people get annoyed with you con, your opinion is ****e, you do not want to play a demo, yet have a pointless opinion it seems, you even state that from every video you have seen it 'APPEARS' that the physics have flaws, how the hell can you come up with that opinion by just watching the video clips and not trying it for yourself. Anyway, as you said it is your opinion, and yep I think most people who have played the demo will take your opinion with a grain of salt.
 
And how am I bashing this game to great lengths if all I'm doing is pointing out things that I believe are a waste of effort in a driving simulator. I'm not too concerned with how my car looks, as opposed to how it drives, I just want to make it as stable and balanced as possible, Forza does not have this focus, in fact it is very clear that they put a large emphasis on body kits and decals.
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Some people love modding cars, I for one will take great enjoyment messing about with how my car looks etc, and seeing as how every mod effects the cars performance, I think that kinda flushes what you said down the toilet. You can't tell me that MORE features are in some way bad :P. Oh and just because a game adds a feature, it hardly means that others some how won't be as good, I could complain about stuff like photo mode in GT4, but I don't as it sounds FUN.

I'd say all of the same things about GT4 if GT had the same features, I do not think it has a place in a racing simulator. Regardless of how "bad" it makes your car perform.
Click to expand...

I beg to differ.

GT4 simply is not capable of the many things forza can do, because it's on a weaker system, and there are things that forza does better, for instance, the AI. However, there are things that GT4 does better, for instance, the physics.
Click to expand...

From what I've played, they seem pretty much on par, if not better in some ways, especially the way the tyres grip.

From every bit of video and media that I have recieved from microsoft, the physics APPEAR to have flaws. It looks great when the cars are on flat land, but the excessive floating that I've seen on more than one occasion is disturbing to me. Gravity is key with a racing game. If the Gravity isn't one of the main focus's of a physics engine, it will suffer in the end, maybe not to an extreme extent, but it can be exploited and ultimately the engine can suffer.
Click to expand...

Every game has flaws somewhere, and floating? I saw no floating, just some dodgy shadows. And judging on videos...Ok...

Forza on the other hand, while it has great potential to be an outstanding game, but I feel that microsoft isn't taking it quite as seriously as they could, more or less the general impression I get is to outdo GT4 and make sales on a console that is only enjoying success because PS2 has basically filled it's userbase.
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Take it seriously enough? WTF? Please explain, that makes zero sense. And OFC it's trying to out do GT4, it's called COMPETITION.
 
Personally I think all this is quite entertaining. the GT fanboys are doing themselves no favours here this Forza Frenzy has been whipped up by PS2 owning GT Fanboys who cannot accept that finally the XBox has a simulation racer at long last rather than accept this as good old compitition they bash it.

GT4 is far from perfect and indeed after watching that 5:34 around the nurb in Sauber I have to doubt GT's simulation credentials.

Forza would not be as hot a topic as it is without the GT Fanboy. And to you Sir, I salute you !
 
code_kev
From what I've played, they seem pretty much on par, it not better in some ways, especially the way the tyres grip.
Click to expand...
You may want to correct that bit where you say it not better in some ways, I know you meant to say if, but someone else might think you meant it's which changes the meaning of the comment somewhat.
 
People, it is very easy to identify car float. If it hits a wall at 28mph, and the car lifts three feet off the ground, its car float. GT3 had terrible car float, and GT4 has mild car float on occasion. Even in the 350z video, on leguna seca, it makes a run up a hill and the front end raises up, and when it hits another car, it nearly went straight up. This is how it APPEARS. which leads me to use the word "appear" in my statement.

I'm not saying that the additional features are bad. However, my general impression from presentation and comments is that it is not in to enhance the simulation of the game at all, it is being toted as a customization tool, rather than a tuning tool. This is my main gripe.

You can beg to differ, however, I have a strong disliking to mainstream tuner trends. NOPI, for instance, is a terrible association, IMO. I just dislike their trendy preference of form over performance. I feel the same way about Forza.

Here's what I mean about take it seriously enough. It is extremely apparent that their focus is the current motor trend of import tuning, not the good side, the side where you have 16 year olds and body kits. Maybe it's just beacuse i've been building motors since I was 14, and racing in SCCA events since I was old enough to do so, or maybe it's because I despise people who prefer speed over balance, and to me, this is the crowd I see the developers of forza trying to please.

And I never made comments on tire grip, because I haven't played, so I don't say anything about that, nor about the handling of the car, all I commented on was the gravity as it appeared in the video.

Again, it has potential, I could be wrong in my assumptions, but from what I have gathered thus far, I'm not enticed.

I do not see why it is such a big issue that I be wrong here, it is my opinion until I play otherwise.

And for the record. C9 video. You haven't driven a C9. You don't know how it handles, yada yada, judging is stupid. And no game will reach real levels of simulation, period. Every game has it's faults, GT4 has a ton.
 
Liquid Li0n
Ok Forza has:
- skidmarks
- visual damage
- optical tuning
- Porsche's and Ferrari's

but even then It can't beat the game of all games GT4!!!
Forza looks arcade when you see the video of it and also stupid that the cars have no license plates, GT4 solved that problem well with the name of the car as plate but the best would be that you can put your name (or IRL licenseplate number) on to it. It would be cool for the Photo Mode :)

But on the other hand if I had a XBOX also I would buy Forza!
Click to expand...


LOL you are trying to bash Forza for no license playes? That is just about the weakest comparison I have ever heard. Oh and go out and play the demo before you jump to some whack ass conclusion that it is 'arcade'. Forza's physics are much more realistic than in GT4.

Edit: Damn it, why does the e-mail link not send me to the last page?
 
AdrenalineSRX
GT4 doesn't have a ton of faults!

Only a few!

1) No 2 player memory card battle :grumpy:
2) Mediocore car sounds :mad:
3) No damage :guilty:
4) AI 👎
Click to expand...

No online play.
It lacks Key tuning features that are much needed.
Poor Tire simulation
bad transmission simulation
lack of track debris (leaves, dirt, oil, tread, etc)
Poor wet track representation
chaotic interface menu (yes it bothers me)
arcade mode is useless and lackluster


I have more but why go on. I'm going to play again. Later doods.
 
And for the record. C9 video. You haven't driven a C9. You don't know how it handles, yada yada, judging is stupid. And no game will reach real levels of simulation, period. Every game has it's faults, GT4 has a ton.
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I may not have driven the C9 but I can tell you that lap he done round the nurb in that car would be impossible... he beat gold time by what 25 seconds or somthing even the devlopers never thought anyone could do that.

I'd point my finger at GT's physics or lack of real physics.

You say no game will come close to reaching real levels of simulation. Mabye not but they will be damn close it's just a shame GT4 is not in the catagory of coming close to replicating a true simulation of driving.
 
Actually the developers set the gold times with an allowance of x% to beat it by, that time was beat by less than 5% and I've beated golds by a higher percent than that in GT3. As for the lap it'self, your right no C9 wouldv'e done that in real life.
 
Front
I may not have driven the C9 but I can tell you that lap he done round the nurb in that car would be impossible... he beat gold time by what 25 seconds or somthing even the devlopers never thought anyone could do that.

I'd point my finger at GT's physics or lack of real physics.

You say no game will come close to reaching real levels of simulation. Mabye not but they will be damn close it's just a shame GT4 is not in the catagory of coming close to replicating a true simulation of driving.
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I never argued it didn't, but neither will forza :)

And you are misunderstanding physics. the reason that the cars are able to do what they do is because of rediculous tire simulation. They are extremely too sticky, the phyics (gravity, g-force, etc) all work well, the tire simulation is at fault.
 
They cars don't put power down as suddenly in GT4 as they do in real life either, it's closer to real than GT3, but can still hamer the throttle like nobodys business, try that in say GTR and you'll suffer the consequences. GT4's physics are fantastic but Forza's are better in terms of handling both are very similar but power delivery in Forza is better amonst other details. As for the bouncing, I don't see it in any of the video's of Forza I have and that presentation vid I deleted and I'm not downloading it again, I've seen dodgy shadows like Kev, maybe there is a bounce jjust I've not seen it so I can't comment on that.
 
tha_con
I never argued it didn't, but neither will forza :)

And you are misunderstanding physics. the reason that the cars are able to do what they do is because of rediculous tire simulation. They are extremely too sticky, the phyics (gravity, g-force, etc) all work well, the tire simulation is at fault.
Click to expand...

It was not just the tire simulation at fault. When the car was mid air the car would have flipped at those speeds. But it did not it should have been cartwheeling it over every bump but alas it never.

When he went on the grass the car should have spun but alas it never a very many factors were very wrong with that video I just gereralised by saying "physics"
 

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