Free Speech

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Just found out about this thread and so I am only reacting on the title of the thread:
Free speech is for everyone. And everyone is for free speech. Demanding however that that what is being said is something other people should listen to is a totally different matter.
 
Are medical boards not governmental regulatory bodies?

My understanding is that they are and that citizens are protected against state actors (both "State," as in the federal government, but also the individual states through incorporation doctrine and the Due Process clause of the Fourteenth Amendment) imposing penalties, such as revocation of a medical license, for protected speech.
It looks like you have a strong case. That's kinda disappointing. This seems like it's directly applicable to question of whether someone is competent to practice medicine.
 
It looks like you have a strong case. That's kinda disappointing. This seems like it's directly applicable to question of whether someone is competent to practice medicine.
That brings us back to awful but lawful.

Carson, like countless others, has found that one can leverage whatever medical expertise one may have (which may, in fact, be none that is relevant) for attention, particularly when a significant portion of the public so desperately wants to believe what they have to say.

Carson's opinions on coronavirus may not hold much sway over industry folk but they're surely good enough for Fox News.
 
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Financial penalties for noncompliance here are facially unconstitutional and state actors refusing to conduct business with private actors for noncompliance is viewpoint discrimination and thus runs afoul of unconstitutional conditions doctrine.

Compelled speech isn't free speech.
 
Said it recently, you're so censored @Jordan lets you embody your entire profile to play victim, even changing your name to Red Pilled, but I guess you discovered you actually have a line.


I've seen forums ban for less because they wouldn't deal with such childish nonsense.
 
Maybe he's standing up for his fellow antivaxxer who was thrown out of the main Covid thread for repeatedly posting nonsense, and equates that to censorship. Otherwise by incessantly complaining to all and sundry that he has no voice here simply because nobody agrees with his loony stance, the only one breaking irony meters around here is himself.
 
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Wondering if anything similar to this can happen in the US:


Basically a neo-Nazi was found guilty of possessing The Anarchist Cookbook which is banned in the UK (it was a toss-up if I put this in the banned book thread but I didn't want the scope limited to just banned books) and given a suspended sentence last year and told to read "more Jane Austen" by the judge only for him to be jailed this week after the sentence was reviewed.

More info on the original trial, including what he was convicted of:


He was given a two-year suspended sentence at Leicester crown court after his conviction on 12 August of possessing a record of information likely to be useful to a person committing or preparing an act of terrorism.

The offence, under section 58 of the Terrorism Act (more info
here), carries a maximum sentence of 15 years’ imprisonment.

My question is, does such an offence or something similar exist in the US, or does the First Ammendment protect against that.
 
The possession of published works isn't illegal provided the work was acquired legally and the contents of the published work don't violate state or federal statute. The latter is basically limited to child pornography. Neither The Anarchist's Cookbook nor similar works are prohibited.
 
I think we have some antiquated "obscenity" laws floating around in various states which prohibit certain kinds of (otherwise legal) pornography as well. Alabama also apparently has some kind of sex toy ban under obscenity law. The "Miller test" for obscenity is crap.
I'm in violent agreement with you on Miller--it's all about feefees--but I'm 97% certain obscenity laws prohibit distribution alone and neither publication nor possession.

It'd sure be nice if we could hang up the puritanical hang-ups.
 
This is so ****ing stupid.



Facebook doesn't provide content. Users provide content. All Facebook does is distribute content. Sure, it uses "algorithms" (BOO!!!) so that people who are likely to want to view content are able to easily, but this action isn't harmful even in the incredibly unlikely event that the content itself can reasonably be said to be harmful.

If two men who don't know each other simultaneously reach for "Strangers on a Train" in a bookstore and get to chatting, then later enter into an agreement in which each one will kill an acquaintance for the other, is the bookstore complicit because it facilitated their meeting? No! Not even when that bookstore made the book easy to find by placing it in an alphabetized fiction section with other works by Highsmith.

Facebook also fits exactly within the guidelines of Section 230. It's an interactive computer service. Full stop. Its success and ubiquity doesn't change this.

Interactive computer services are immunized from liability as they are because as distributors of content, they can't reasonably be expected to view everything published by their users and determine whether that content is protected or illicit. Publishers, which interactive computer services are not, are under more scrutiny because of when and how they exercise discretion and the stake they typically have in publication given the investment of energy, money and time.

Contrary to what an indeterminate number of aggressively stupid people believe, Facebook and other interactive computer services exercising discretion through content moderation doesn't magically shift their liability from that of distributor to that of publisher. It shouldn't, and all Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act of 1996 (the intent of which being to encourage moderation, though subject to First Amendment limitations and therefore not compel moderation) does is codify that.
 
This is so ****ing stupid.



Facebook doesn't provide content. Users provide content. All Facebook does is distribute content. Sure, it uses "algorithms" (BOO!!!) so that people who are likely to want to view content are able to easily, but this action isn't harmful even in the incredibly unlikely event that the content itself can reasonably be said to be harmful.

If two men who don't know each other simultaneously reach for "Strangers on a Train" in a bookstore and get to chatting, then later enter into an agreement in which each one will kill an acquaintance for the other, is the bookstore complicit because it facilitated their meeting? No! Not even when that bookstore made the book easy to find by placing it in an alphabetized fiction section with other works by Highsmith.

Facebook also fits exactly within the guidelines of Section 230. It's an interactive computer service. Full stop. Its success and ubiquity doesn't change this.

Interactive computer services are immunized from liability as they are because as distributors of content, they can't reasonably be expected to view everything published by their users and determine whether that content is protected or illicit. Publishers, which interactive computer services are not, are under more scrutiny because of when and how they exercise discretion and the stake they typically have in publication given the investment of energy, money and time.

Contrary to what an indeterminate number of aggressively stupid people believe, Facebook and other interactive computer services exercising discretion through content moderation doesn't magically shift their liability from that of distributor to that of publisher. It shouldn't, and all Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act of 1996 (the intent of which being to encourage moderation, though subject to First Amendment limitations and therefore not compel moderation) does is codify that.

If it could be shown that Facebook intended to aid in the arrangement of the crime that would be another matter. There's a version of this where a forum is set up specifically to help carry out a crime, and takes actions intended to aid people in criminal activities. This isn't that. If starbucks keeps a couple of criminals caffeinated while they plan their nefarious deeds in comfortable lounge chairs, that's not intending to aid in the arrangement of a crime either.

Why are people so confused by the internet?

Edit:

If a church host a BLM meeting and even suggests that people join up, and crimes are discussed at the BLM meeting and ultimately carried out, is the church responsible for the crime? It's preposterous.
 
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Just taking the facebook example to extremes for a second:

Let's pretend that through machine learning the facebook algorithm learns to tag people as would-be terrorists. And through its deep-learning classification it internally catalogs people as terrorists and certain speech planning terrorism. The machine learning algorithm is designed to put like-minded people together so that they can discuss, so it suggests that people who engage in planning terrorist activities (identified by the algorithm) together into a terrorist facebook group. So when you start posting on facebook about jewish space lasers and post certain racists and violent content, it flags you as a terrorist and directs you to the appropriate group where you can meet up with your terrorist buddies.

And let's say it actually internally tags these people as terrorists, and the group as a terrorist group. Like the machine learning algorithm assigned that specific name. Actually hell, let's take it a step further. Let's pretend that when you start streaming nonsense you get a paper clip that says "it looks like you're planning a terrorist attack, let me help you with that" and directs you to the "terrorist attack planning" group.

Is Facebook culpable for the crimes then? I'd argue no.

Unless:
1) The terrorist recognition and assistance algorithm was coded or curated specifically to do that. Not just learned, but intentionally designed by a human to help with a crime.
2) Facebook as a company is aware of a specific crime and helps to conceal evidence or lies during an investigation of the crime.

If criminal matching is simply byproduct, even if the computer learns to tag it based on that recognition, it's still just a computer doing its thing.

If anything, Facebook is potentially performing a service here. It's easy for FBI agents to get similarly matched and embedded within these groups. And lots of Facebook data is public, and what's not can be compelled in court. Facebook (and similar) can be criminal honeypots. If criminals are dumb enough to plan and meet on facebook, then we should encourage that. Facebook can also easily cooperate with law enforcement not just for prosecution after the fact, but for detection. But to be clear, it doesn't even have to cooperate for law enforcement to use it for that purpose. An FBI agent can sign up just like joe schmoe and start posting nonsense and get routed.
 
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The possession of published works isn't illegal provided the work was acquired legally and the contents of the published work don't violate state or federal statute. The latter is basically limited to child pornography. Neither The Anarchist's Cookbook nor similar works are prohibited.
Does that also hold for certain unpublished works like, say, bomb making instructions or is there a limit?

I see that the Anarchist Cookbook has "recipes" for explosives but is allowed in the US so was wondering where the line is drawn.
 
Does that also hold for certain unpublished works like, say, bomb making instructions or is there a limit?

I see that the Anarchist Cookbook has "recipes" for explosives but is allowed in the US so was wondering where the line is drawn.
For possession? It likely would. That isn't to say one's possession of such instructions can't be included as one part of a strong case against an actor accused of building and delivering (and detonating, for that matter) an explosove device. Merely being in possession of instructions shouldn't be and likely isn't criminalized. Thought is to be distinguished from action.

Of course there are limits on publication, but those limits tend to conform to established constraints on laws regarding expression. Because the imminence requirement is unlikely to be satisfied with published works claimed to be incitement of lawlessness, this basically means libel and, as mentioned, obscenity...the latter of which should only be the case in the absence of consent, but isn't.
 
Does that also hold for certain unpublished works like, say, bomb making instructions or is there a limit?

I see that the Anarchist Cookbook has "recipes" for explosives but is allowed in the US so was wondering where the line is drawn.
Bomb making instructions might amount to violation of classified information in some instances, and publishing it can be considered exporting munitions (even if it's not classified in some instances). But the anarchists cookbook doesn't cross either of those lines.
 
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Bomb making instructions might amount to violation of classified information in some instances, and publishing it can be considered exporting munitions (even if it's not classified in some instances). But the anarchists cookbook doesn't cross either of those lines.
Yeah, dissemination of classified information is still pretty murky and there is no significant precedent establishing it as protected. It is generally legal to publish confidential information provided it wasn't acquired illegally by the entity printing it, even if the source acquired it illegally, but the government does have its interests. There's also some funny logic in determining whether an individual is recognized as a journalist and is afforded relevant protections; Edward Snowden, James Ball and Julian Assange immediately spring to mind.
 
As legislatures across the country begin or resume legislative sessions in the new year, lawmakers are introducing new bills that would seek to regulate how race and sex are addressed in K-12 classrooms and in America’s colleges and universities. Problematically, most of this year’s crop of bills that apply to the collegiate setting present unconstitutional intrusions into what can and cannot be taught.

When these bills first started appearing last year, FIRE was quick to point out that while legislators have broader (but not unlimited) authority to set K-12 curriculum, the First Amendment and the principles of academic freedom prevent the government from banning ideas from collegiate classrooms.

It has been decades since there was any question that government bans on what can be taught in college classes are unconstitutional.

In the landmark 1957 case Sweezy v. New Hampshire, the Supreme Court of the United States concluded:
The essentiality of freedom in the community of American universities is almost self-evident. No one should underestimate the vital role in a democracy that is played by those who guide and train our youth. To impose any strait jacket upon the intellectual leaders in our colleges and universities would imperil the future of our Nation. No field of education is so thoroughly comprehended by man that new discoveries cannot yet be made. Particularly is that true in the social sciences, where few, if any, principles are accepted as absolutes. Scholarship cannot flourish in an atmosphere of suspicion and distrust. Teachers and students must always remain free to inquire, to study and to evaluate, to gain new maturity and understanding; otherwise, our civilization will stagnate and die.
Ten years later, in Keyishian v. Board of Regents, the Supreme Court elaborated further on academic freedom, identifying it as “a special concern of the First Amendment, which does not tolerate laws that cast a pall of orthodoxy over the classroom.”

“Our Nation is deeply committed to safeguarding academic freedom,” the Court reasoned, “which is of transcendent value to all of us and not just the teachers involved.” When the government bans certain materials from being taught, it unconstitutionally violates the principles of academic freedom in violation of Sweezy and Keyishian.

Higher education race and sex stereotyping bills enacted in 2021 ditched the classroom bans

Thankfully, the final versions of the enacted 2021 higher education race and sex stereotyping bills did not include provisions with curricular bans. (Because FIRE’s mission is to protect individual rights in higher education, our legislative focus has been exclusively on those bills that would impact higher education, and we have not taken a position on any language that regulates K-12). These laws, passed in Idaho, Iowa, Oklahoma, and New Hampshire, were each considerably more measured than most of the bills filed so far in 2022. For example, last year the Idaho legislature, rather than ban any curriculum, instead prohibited colleges and universities from compelling students to affirm specific political viewpoints. The enacted statute states:
(a) No public institution of higher education, school district, or public school, including a public charter school, shall direct or otherwise compel students to personally affirm, adopt, or adhere to any of the following tenets:
(i) That any sex, race, ethnicity, religion, color, or national origin is inherently superior or inferior;
(ii) That individuals should be adversely treated on the basis of their sex, race, ethnicity, religion, color, or national origin; or
(iii) That individuals, by virtue of sex, race, ethnicity, religion, color, or national origin, are inherently responsible for actions committed in the past by other members of the same sex, race, ethnicity, religion, color, or national origin.
(b) No distinction or classification of students shall be made on account of race or color.
(c) No course of instruction or unit of study directing or otherwise compelling students to personally affirm, adopt, or adhere to any of the tenets identified in paragraph (a) of this subsection shall be used or introduced in any institution of higher education, any school district, or any public school, including a public charter school.
(4) Nothing in this section should be construed to prohibit the required collection or reporting of demographic data by public schools or public institutions of higher education.
In Iowa, the final language of its bill only prohibited teaching or advocating for the concepts it deemed “divisive” in the context of mandatory staff or student training. To further guard against intrusions on academic freedom, the bill expressly stated that it shall not be construed to:
Inhibit or violate the first amendment rights of students or faculty, or undermine a public institution of higher education’s duty to protect to the fullest degree intellectual freedom and free expression. The intellectual vitality of students and faculty shall not be infringed under this section.
The final language in Oklahoma similarly only applies to mandatory diversity trainings provided by campus administrations. It states:
No enrolled student of an institution of higher education within The Oklahoma State System of Higher Education shall be required to engage in any form of mandatory gender or sexual diversity training or counseling; provided, voluntary counseling shall not be prohibited. Any orientation or requirement that presents any form of race or sex stereotyping or a bias on the basis of race or sex shall be prohibited.
Although there was at least one institution that misapplied the statute and temporarily suspended some classes while it evaluated whether those classes fell within the scope of the bill, it was clear from the onset that the statute was not intended to restrict classroom speech, and the institution promptly reversed course.



The final 2021 higher education race and sex stereotyping law that was enacted was a late hour amendment added to the New Hampshire budget. House Bill 2 included language that generally prohibited public employers from “teaching, advocating, instructing, or training” any student that:

  • they are superior or inferior on the basis of their membership in a protected class;
  • they are “inherently racist, sexist, or oppressive” because of those immutable characteristics;
  • they should be discriminated against on account of their membership in a protected class; or
  • people shouldn’t attempt to treat others equally without regard to their membership in one or more of the long list of protected classes.
Ordinarily, that language would constitute a curricular ban. But crucially, HB 2 also contained helpful language to protect academic freedom, negating the ban’s application to contexts covered by academic freedom. It states:
Nothing in this subdivision shall be construed to limit the academic freedom of faculty members of the university system of New Hampshire and the community college system of New Hampshire to conduct research, publish, lecture, or teach in the academic setting.
Unlike generic savings clauses that try to tell courts that a bill’s language should be construed constitutionally, this clause says its language cannot be construed to limit academic freedom in higher education, making it more akin to an exemption than an ineffective “savings clause.”

Despite the fact that many bills proposing curricular bans in K-12 and collegiate settings were introduced in 2021, none of the higher education curricular bans have been signed into law.

It’s like déjà vu all over again

While some 2021 bills with unconstitutional classroom restrictions, like Pennsylvania’s HB 1532 and Ohio’s HB 327, remain pending in 2022, FIRE hoped that lawmakers introducing new legislation would take notice that the curricular bans were a constitutional non-starter. We were wrong.

In legislatures across the country, including in states like Alabama (HB 8, HB 9, HB 11, and SB 7), Florida (HB 57 and SB 242), Indiana (HB 1134 and SB 167), Iowa (HF 222), Kentucky (HB 18), Missouri (HB 1484, HB 1634, and HB 1654), New Hampshire (HB 1313), New York (A 8253), Oklahoma (HB 2988), and South Carolina (H 4799), the bills contain unconstitutional bans on what can be taught in college classrooms. They must not be enacted in their current form.

In the days, weeks, and months ahead, FIRE will be writing more about many of these bills, as well as others that are introduced on this topic. We will also continue our direct engagement with legislators, urging them to cut unconstitutional provisions and pursue alternative approaches to addressing discriminatory conduct that are in line with the First Amendment and academic freedom.
 
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Except it is not Republicans reaching riiight into peoples private businesses and telling them what they can/can't do.
Screenshot-20220129-100424-Samsung-Internet.jpg

Inquiry alone subject to direct financial penalty (contrasted with revocation of license granted by a government agency) and incarceration. Facially unconstitutional. The bill is also so poorly drafted (bug or feature?) that it may be construed as applying to private residence.

Imprisonment. For speech. In the United States!

Purely performative and completely grievance-based as the bill is, with no ****ing chance it'll withstand a constitutional challenge, I'm compelled to put into perspective just how bat **** ****ing insane(!!!) the proposed sentencing is. Third degree assault and battery, defined in the South Carolina Code of Laws § 16-3-600 as "unlawfully [injuring] another person, or [offering] or [attempting] to injure another person with the present ability to do so," carries a penalty of a fine not to exceed $500 or imprisonment not to exceed 30 days.

Garbage. On. Parade.
 
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One-party rule? What is he talking about? Also, you don't reign things in. Reign means a period of ruling. You rein them.
 
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