From GT5 to FM3

[infamousDee]

I guess I didn't realize you were going to be childish. Disregard any conversation we had. I don't have time for antics like that.

Hypocrisy much? You speak as if your remarkably similar accusations that I was lying about having played FM3 didn't happen.

 

[IncredibleMind]

I race with aids off.



I guess I didn't realize you were going to be childish. Disregard any conversation we had. I don't have time for antics like that.

Get over yourself with the self-righteous act. Mclaren gave video evidence disproving your claims yet you continue to pretend it's a subjective experience.

And yes you are lying. At a bare minimal you're lying to yourself if nothing else.

If you think FM3's sound need improving, listen to GT5; it's horrid. Even cheap bad lousy racing games on the PS2 sound better (honestly)

Yes, ofcourse, the sound can be improved in FM, but this will surely happen with FM4... remember that all the car engine sounds are recorded from real life, so it's as good as it gets (maybe the distortion should be better indeed).

GT5's engine sounds are made by a synthesizer. The needed 6 years to do that, lmao.

This is absolutely untrue.



1. The GT5 sounds use post processing effects and may be enhanced by synthesizers but there is no base engine sound that was created purely from a synth. I can see how someone can be displeased by how muffled the engine and loud the gears are from cockpit view though. If it bothers you that much however, you can easily switch to hood view.

2. The sounds in Forza are not all recorded directly from the engines as the sounds are often not even accurate. Also, the tire screeches and sound effects are far superior in GT5. Forza's wheels sound like an 18 wheeler and it's very unsatisfying.

 

[McLaren]

I race with aids off.

I guess I didn't realize you were going to be childish. Disregard any conversation we had. I don't have time for antics like that.

It's nothing of the sort. It's calling you out on your claims. You do not race with aids off or you would see exactly what Zer0 & I have been talking about. Yet, you claim they are non-existent thus you are, again, not driving any of the quick cars in the game, or you are lying.

And continue on bypassing arguments as always. As I said before, once you're challenged enough on your posts, you resort to any way you can so you don't have to continue on.

 

[Daddybird]

Get over yourself with the self-righteous act. Mclaren gave video evidence disproving your claims yet you continue to pretend it's a subjective experience.

And yes you are lying. At a bare minimal you're lying to yourself if nothing else.



This is absolutely untrue.

1. The GT5 sounds use post processing effects and may be enhanced by synthesizers but there is no base engine sound that was created purely from a synth. I can see how someone can be displeased by how muffled the engine and loud the gears are from cockpit view though. If it bothers you that much however, you can easily switch to hood view.

2. The sounds in Forza are not all recorded directly from the engines as the sounds are often not even accurate. Also, the tire screeches and sound effects are far superior in GT5. Forza's wheels sound like an 18 wheeler and it's very unsatisfying.

Yes this IS true, it's widely known PD uses synths to create the engine sounds... not one car sounds even close to their real world counterparts.

Yes, Turn10 DID record all of the engine sounds.

Why reply saying I'm untrue to what I know while you have no idea what you're talking about?

We (the board) discussed this already in the GT5 sound thread weeks ago.

Edit: Oh and using a video of "someone" racing a Stradale in FM3 that says the sound isn't at all like a Ferrari as proof is ridiculous. That actually IS the sound of a Stradale, muffled and distorded by people's own speakers and the compression of the sound files to make it fit on a DVD.

 

[IncredibleMind]

Yes this IS true, it's widely known PD uses synths to create the engine sounds... not one car sounds even close to their real world counterparts.

Yes, Turn10 DID record all of the engine sounds.

Why reply saying I'm untrue to what I know while you have no idea what you're talking about?

We (the board) discussed this already in the GT5 sound thread weeks ago.

Edit: Oh and using a video of "someone" racing a Stradale in FM3 that says the sound isn't at all like a Ferrari as proof is ridiculous. That actually IS the sound of a Stradale, muffled and distorded by people's own speakers and the compression of the sound files to make it fit on a DVD.

Well that's kinda the thing. I wasn't actually trying to convince you. Your mind was obviously made up long before GT5 was released.

However I will post counterarguments for others who may read the complete misinformation given by yourself and others. I find it hilarious that you speak as if you and the rest of the board made a thread and reached some sort of consensus about the origin of the game's sounds. No, that's not what happened. YOU decided to believe that PD created their engine sounds from a synth, despite it being untrue and unprovable.

Of course there are some anomalies but the sounds are nowhere near as misappropriated as you make it seem, specifically on the premiums. If they created any premium sounds from synths provide the evidence.

Although it's over a year old, watch this video from 2:30 to 3:00.

http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=/&gl=US#/watch?xl=xl_blazer&v=tJJLEswthX8

 

[IncredibleMind]

Here's a video that people use to claim that GT5's sounds are recorded via a synth.

http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=/&gl=US#/watch?xl=xl_blazer&v=NSJQ2YaA3fA

Now, for those that own the game, purchase the Corvette Convertible (C3) '69 and you'll quickly understand not only how inaccurate that video is, but also why people like Daddybird will swear to the high heavens that GT's sounds aren't even remotely close to the real thing.

The video is an earlier build without the actual engine sample and it's not what we hear in the finalized version of the game.

 

[Bogie 19th]

It's nothing of the sort. It's calling you out on your claims. You do not race with aids off or you would see exactly what Zer0 & I have been talking about. Yet, you claim they are non-existent thus you are, again, not driving any of the quick cars in the game, or you are lying.

And continue on bypassing arguments as always. As I said before, once you're challenged enough on your posts, you resort to any way you can so you don't have to continue on.

The funny thing is, there is nothing to "call out" or to lie about. I am letting you know of my experience with the game, assists off, with "many" of the cars I have driven, including quick cars.

No bypassing any arguments here. Just telling you how it is. I choose not to continue on because, as many can see, you are getting riled up over somebody else who has a different opinion and experience of the game than you have had.

It's really nothing to get worked up over. Again, let's just let this one go, you can take it to PM if you like. Nothing is getting accomplished here.

 

[Beefc]

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/10q4/gran_turismo_5_vs._forza_motorsport_3-feature

Interesting how a professional car magazine rates the driving versus some Forza players.

"Forza is what you play with your friends when hanging out; GT5 is what you attempt to master in solitude—and what makes you end up throwing the controller across the room, because it’s more difficult than it looks."

 

[McLaren]

The funny thing is, there is nothing to "call out" or to lie about. I am letting you know of my experience with the game, assists off, with "many" of the cars I have driven, including quick cars.

The problem with your "experience" is that you're the only one experiencing such things & deny that our examples aren't happening in our game.

No bypassing any arguments here. Just telling you how it is. I choose not to continue on because, as many can see, you are getting riled up over somebody else who has a different opinion and experience of the game than you have had.

No, you're bypassing. You constantly say, "Agree to disagree" b/c you can no longer counter points. As soon as Zer0 & I countered you, you gave up & called our posts opinions even though there's video evidence.

Nobody's seeing me do anything, but plenty have already seen you run off til' a new person posts something.

It's really nothing to get worked up over. Again, let's just let this one go, you can take it to PM if you like. Nothing is getting accomplished here.

Not worked up at all, just wondering why you managed to get the 1 copy that goes against all the proof & examples given.

But, since you're going to keep walking around the facts & call them "opinions", and run away from the argument, go right ahead. It doesn't take long before someone brings up this topic again & you start making the same posts.

 

[RogsR34UK]

Possibly a grind too far?

I just bought the latest DLC which had the 2.75 million Ferrari in it. I had about 900K before downloading it and was left with about 700K after buying the other cars.

I have been grinding the 9 lap 'Ring race since yesterday (when I donwloaded the new content) with my modded Mazda LM car which can complete that race with a hired driver in around an hour and get me 85K. I should have got the money by this afternoon. I have every other car in the game so I had to buy a stock version of that (I got one as a Gift Car with a Christmas theme).

As well as running that, earlier I was repeating a B spec GT5 race to earn some cash in that game while I was doing something else.

Two games using AI to get me some in game funds... definitely a grind too far!!

 

[Bogie 19th]

The problem with your "experience" is that you're the only one experiencing such things & deny that our examples aren't happening in our game.

"Our" game? The only one? I suppose maybe the only one on our dedicated GT forum, in this particular section from 2 or 3 posters, yes. The problem is actually with "your" experience, which is different from others as well, and isn't happening in our game.

No, you're bypassing. You constantly say, "Agree to disagree" b/c you can no longer counter points. As soon as Zer0 & I countered you, you gave up & called our posts opinions even though there's video evidence.

I constantly say it because it is so difficult for you to understand that YOUR experience isn't experienced by all, and YOUR experience isn't the defacto. Why is it so hard for you to grasp that?

Nobody's seeing me do anything, but plenty have already seen you run off til' a new person posts something.

Nobody has seen me run anything, but plenty of us can see how agitated you are because you feel your experience rivals anything else.

Not worked up at all, just wondering why you managed to get the 1 copy that goes against all the proof & examples given.

And I am wondering how your copy managed to go against experience of mine as well as others that have had similar experiences that have posted on the web? Odd, isn't it?

But, since you're going to keep walking around the facts & call them "opinions", and run away from the argument, go right ahead. It doesn't take long before someone brings up this topic again & you start making the same posts.

That most likely is your issue. You believe that opinions are facts, and you believe your experience is the same experience had by all. Once you wrap your head around that flaw, maybe you will be able to comprehend where you are losing this petty argument.

I am sure that in short time you will return with your same witty replies and claim to fame and fact. I got all day...entertain us

 

[prymet1me]

Here's a video that people use to claim that GT5's sounds are recorded via a synth.

http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=/&gl=US#/watch?xl=xl_blazer&v=NSJQ2YaA3fA

Now, for those that own the game, purchase the Corvette Convertible (C3) '69 and you'll quickly understand not only how inaccurate that video is, but also why people like Daddybird will swear to the high heavens that GT's sounds aren't even remotely close to the real thing.

The video is an earlier build without the actual engine sample and it's not what we hear in the finalized version of the game.

Sorry man, I don't care how many video links you put here, the car sounds in FM bump cam and cockpit cam sound much better to me than the jet/spaceship/super transmission sound I get in GT5. Matter of fact I have my race BGM louder to ease the pain of the terrible bump cam/cockpit sound of GT5.

Yes the 3RD person cam in GT5 sounds MUCH better for most cars BUT the way they implemented that view just plays weird to me for some reason. I cant play "sim" racers in 3rd person as great as bump or cockpit but GT5 3rd person cam just throws me WAY off.

On a side note, I can hear my car while E. Grahm (Bob) drives my cars around. I am just shallow enough to watch b spec when he is using a car that has active aero like my SLS. FM4 better have active aero and backfire animations or I will rage.

 

[G.T.Ace]

You believe that opinions are facts, and you believe your experience is the same experience had by all.

You were the one posting cars in GT5 don't break loose while it can be proven that this is wrong, so....

 

[Bogie 19th]

You were the one posting cars in GT5 don't break loose while it can be proven that this is wrong, so....

I said the cars corner like they are on rails, and rarely get loose. Not sure of your point? I never once said that they DON'T get loose.

 

[BigYoSpeck]

I said the cars corner like they are on rails, and rarely get loose. Not sure of your point? I never once said that they DON'T get loose.

A statement made backed up with no information or citations. What cars are you making that statement based on? Were they modded?

Your statement was called out because other than low power FWD and high downforce MR race cars it isn't in the least bit true. There is a drift forum full of video's of people breaking adhesion quite literally for fun.

Hell I even lost a bet to a friend because I said you can't drift an Evo and promptly tried to show him by flicking it into a corner and giving it the beans only to see the back end come out and go round the corner sideways (still only scored around 1300 though )

Every one is entitled to an opinion, but when it's wrong and you broadcast it publicly expect it to be corrected.

 

[Bogie 19th]

Every one is entitled to an opinion, but when it's wrong and you broadcast it publicly expect it to be corrected.

You just keep telling yourself that

 

[BigYoSpeck]

I'm starting to think you are just debating for sport in which case fair play for goading people for so long

 

[Bogie 19th]

That is what I was thinking you were doing, hence my reply.

 

[IncredibleMind]

Sorry man, I don't care how many video links you put here, the car sounds in FM bump cam and cockpit cam sound much better to me than the jet/spaceship/super transmission sound I get in GT5. Matter of fact I have my race BGM louder to ease the pain of the terrible bump cam/cockpit sound of GT5.

Yes the 3RD person cam in GT5 sounds MUCH better for most cars BUT the way they implemented that view just plays weird to me for some reason. I cant play "sim" racers in 3rd person as great as bump or cockpit but GT5 3rd person cam just throws me WAY off.

On a side note, I can hear my car while E. Grahm (Bob) drives my cars around. I am just shallow enough to watch b spec when he is using a car that has active aero like my SLS. FM4 better have active aero and backfire animations or I will rage.

I do believe I said I understand why people would be disappointed by the muffled engine sounds/loud gears in cockpit view.

Also, I 'll repeat what I've said before, if it bothers you that much you can always switch to hood cam which for some reason you seem to be omitting.

I was making a point that these super stellar, ultra realistic sounds that people are proclaiming in Forza are completely exaggerated and I provided some video evidence which seems to go ignored when they don't suit certain people's views.

 

[Bogie 19th]

I haven't had any issues with the actual sound of the engines or exhaust as a whole. I actually think they sound pretty good, especially the 2010 Camaro SS. It's the impact sounds they make banging against each other that sounds horrific. But that doesn't bother me.

 

[Zer0]

"Forza is what you play with your friends when hanging out; GT5 is what you attempt to master in solitude—and what makes you end up throwing the controller across the room, because it’s more difficult than it looks."

In the comments:

We played with both the controllers and wheel-and-pedal setups--it wouldn't have been fair to the games to not try both--and our story and impressions are based on the whole package.

You can see the wheel right in front of Mr. Sutton in the image on page 2; he just happened to be using the controller when the images were snapped.

 

[prymet1me]

I do believe I said I understand why people would be disappointed by the muffled engine sounds/loud gears in cockpit view.

Also, I 'll repeat what I've said before, if it bothers you that much you can always switch to hood cam which for some reason you seem to be omitting.

I was making a point that these super stellar, ultra realistic sounds that people are proclaiming in Forza are completely exaggerated and I provided some video evidence which seems to go ignored when they don't suit certain people's views.

Hood cam in GT5 is terrible. My uncles 1967 Chevelle 396 SS does not sound like ANY of the muscle cars with cockpit view in GT5, the exhaust note is clear and loud. His car is a show car and not a race car, so if the cars in FM are exaggerated then GREAT! The cars in GT5 sound terrible in bump and cockpit, bottom line man.

And the reason I say the "hood" cam is terrible because it seems to sit too high and just feels wrong.

Edit: Like I said you can post every video from youtube you can find that will not change what I have experienced with my 5.1 on both games and personal experience riding in a muscle car.

 

[deftonesmx17]

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/10q4/gran_turismo_5_vs._forza_motorsport_3-feature

Interesting how a professional car magazine rates the driving versus some Forza players.

http://www.popsci.com/cars/article/2005-03/race-against-reality

And.....apprently GT fans seem to forget that the original Forza was tested against a real race driver doing laps around the real track. As opposed to just some Car and Driver Journalist...

Considering Forza 3 is far beyond what Froza 1 was capable of and that GT5 actually still contains things from GT4.... lets use some grounded logic here.

Forza's just separates too much, even in equal cars.

Errr, have you ever watched a real race? Just take crappy Nascar for example as the cars are pretty much equal. They separate.... and don't all finish on the same lap even.

 

[infamousDee]

http://www.popsci.com/cars/article/2005-03/race-against-reality

And.....apprently GT fans seem to forget that the original Forza was tested against a real race driver doing laps around the real track. As opposed to just some Car and Driver Journalist...

Considering Forza 3 is far beyond what Froza 1 was capable of and that GT5 actually still contains things from GT4.... lets use some grounded logic here.

Errr, have you ever watched a real race? Just take crappy Nascar for example as the cars are pretty much equal. They separate.... and don't all finish on the same lap even.

Yes, because real races are far longer than just a few laps driven round a track in a video game. And are you seriously proposing that graphical assets have any relation with how a vehicle should behave when it is driven on the limit? Some "grounded logic" you have there.

 

[deftonesmx17]

Yes, because real races are far longer than just a few laps driven round a track in a video game. And are you seriously proposing that graphical assets have any relation with how a vehicle should behave when it is driven on the limit? Some "grounded logic" you have there.

So you agree that both Forza and GT are flawed 'racers' because I've already mentioned how unrealistic the 3-5 laps setup for the majority of the games is.

You're missing the point. If they were lazy enough to pull graphical assets from a previous generation game in order to release it (and to claim it has 1000cars), do you honestly believe they might not have been lazy with other things such as the physics for those? One who is lazy with one thing is surely lazy with others. Nailing proper physics takes more time and effort than generating a computer model.

My logic is more grounded than you think...
IF GT5 is doing any form of proper real-time aerodynamics, the blocky Standard model cars WOULD be affected by this. The simulated air would not flow as smoothly over these blocky models as it would over the nicely curved premium cars. Good lord, the tires are even somewhat blocky for some Standard model cars (we are talking about PS2 models here). This could make one start to question the real-time tire physics as well and if there even is real-time tire physics. Have you ever tried to roll a Hexadecagon? It surely does not roll the same as a more circular object would....

Therefore, either GT5 does not do real-time aerodynamics and tire traction, or if it does, the physics model would without a doubt be affected by those graphical assets being used; take your pick.

 

[Zer0]

IF GT5 is doing any form of proper real-time aerodynamics, the blocky Standard model cars WOULD be affected by this. The simulated air would not flow as smoothly over these blocky models as it would over the nicely curved premium cars. Good lord, the tires are even somewhat blocky for some Standard model cars (we are talking about PS2 models here). This could make one start to question the real-time tire physics as well and if there even is real-time tire physics. Have you ever tried to roll a Hexadecagon? It surely does not roll the same as a more circular object would....

Therefore, either GT5 does not do real-time aerodynamics and tire traction, or if it does, the physics model would without a doubt be affected by those graphical assets being used; take your pick.

You don't need a 100% perfect simulation to beat Forza, no sim is doing things at supercomputer level, and there is no need to link graphics with physics.

I think you will find interesting the comments in these threads from the top Forza teams:

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=139379#post4267401

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=154708&page=4#post4495025

 

[IncredibleMind]

Hood cam in GT5 is terrible. My uncles 1967 Chevelle 396 SS does not sound like ANY of the muscle cars with cockpit view in GT5, the exhaust note is clear and loud. His car is a show car and not a race car, so if the cars in FM are exaggerated then GREAT! The cars in GT5 sound terrible in bump and cockpit, bottom line man.

And the reason I say the "hood" cam is terrible because it seems to sit too high and just feels wrong.

Edit: Like I said you can post every video from youtube you can find that will not change what I have experienced with my 5.1 on both games and personal experience riding in a muscle car.

I'm gonna be completely straight with you at this point. I really don't care what you think. I was posting the videos as evidence to support my statements, not to change your mind.

 

[McLaren]

"Our" game? The only one? I suppose maybe the only one on our dedicated GT forum, in this particular section from 2 or 3 posters, yes. The problem is actually with "your" experience, which is different from others as well, and isn't happening in our game.

Except my experience is shared with 3-4 other people in this thread. Nobody has had your experience.

I constantly say it because it is so difficult for you to understand that YOUR experience isn't experienced by all, and YOUR experience isn't the defacto. Why is it so hard for you to grasp that?

Again, a few here have already seen the same things I have. Nobody has seen your experience for themselves in the game.

Nobody has seen me run anything, but plenty of us can see how agitated you are because you feel your experience rivals anything else.

That's why 2 people now have already called you at your hypocrisy?

And I am wondering how your copy managed to go against experience of mine as well as others that have had similar experiences that have posted on the web? Odd, isn't it?

Then post proof, kiddo. Because at least 3-4 people have already done so in this thread. You are the only person saying GT cars are on rails.

That most likely is your issue. You believe that opinions are facts, and you believe your experience is the same experience had by all. Once you wrap your head around that flaw, maybe you will be able to comprehend where you are losing this petty argument.

Sorry, what I posted is fact. There is video evidence of what I posted.

What you post is false. The only way a car in GT handles on rails is with the stickiest tire compound available or if you have assists on.

I am sure that in short time you will return with your same witty replies and claim to fame and fact. I got all day...entertain us

The only people being entertained is everyone but us.

I love how you act like people are watching me, yet you're the one being quoted by multiple people.

 

[deftonesmx17]

You don't need a 100% perfect simulation to beat Forza, no sim is doing things at supercomputer level, and there is no need to link graphics with physics.

I think you will find interesting the comments in these threads from the top Forza teams:

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=139379#post4267401

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=154708&page=4#post4495025

Forza has visible real-time tire deformation which has a direct link to the GRAPHICAL tire model.

Forza has real-time aerodynamics which has a direct link to the GRAPHICAL car model. Fender benders change the way the virtual air moves across the car model.

Notice how in both of the posts you link they clearly state "in their opinion", which clearly means they are no more right than my opinon numskull. And ohz noz, a whole 4 of the 23 EMW members have switched, in a democracy that would mean jack and ****. That's like trying to say gravity is false by using the 2% who believe that as proof.

 

[IncredibleMind]

So you agree that both Forza and GT are flawed 'racers' because I've already mentioned how unrealistic the 3-5 laps setup for the majority of the games is.

You're missing the point. If they were lazy enough to pull graphical assets from a previous generation game in order to release it (and to claim it has 1000cars), do you honestly believe they might not have been lazy with other things such as the physics for those? One who is lazy with one thing is surely lazy with others. Nailing proper physics takes more time and effort than generating a computer model.

My logic is more grounded than you think...
IF GT5 is doing any form of proper real-time aerodynamics, the blocky Standard model cars WOULD be affected by this. The simulated air would not flow as smoothly over these blocky models as it would over the nicely curved premium cars. Good lord, the tires are even somewhat blocky for some Standard model cars (we are talking about PS2 models here). This could make one start to question the real-time tire physics as well and if there even is real-time tire physics. Have you ever tried to roll a Hexadecagon? It surely does not roll the same as a more circular object would....

Therefore, either GT5 does not do real-time aerodynamics and tire traction, or if it does, the physics model would without a doubt be affected by those graphical assets being used; take your pick.

Your assumptions are wrong. We don't know what model they used to program or test their physics engine. It could be a formula based purely on entering numbers for things like weight, whether the car is FW/RW/AW, etc. However, it's a given that all tires are round so your graphical analogy falls flat.

The idea of you assuming laziness is hilarious though. Maybe it wasn't laziness but more of an issue with prioritizing and/or time management.