From GT5 to FM3

[Zoom!Zoom!]

Depends on your definition of done, grinding is not for everyone. A spec is short for an offline career. Oh wait, I forgot you can race the same races over and over again with different cars for the "feel" right.

I agree A spec could use more events but all racing sim is basically race the same races over and over again (Grind). One of my favorite all time racing sim is NR2003 which you race the tracks every season. Even some of Fm3 events were repeated just with a different class of cars. Around FM3 5th season I felt like I was racing the same races over and over again.

 

[prymet1me]

I agree A spec could use more events but all racing sim is basically race the same races over and over again (Grind). One of my favorite all time racing sim is NR2003 which you race the tracks every season. Even some of Fm3 events were repeated just with a different class of cars. Around FM3 5th season I felt like I was racing the same races over and over again.

Forza season does drag, but you can do events outside of it. I got the achievement for the sixth season and now finishing up the events in what ever order I please depending on which car I feel like pulling out of the garage.

 

[VXR]

Can't fathom someone saying there's barely any lift-off oversteer. Perhaps certain driving styles fit better with Forza than others.

 

[Zer0]

Nobody is really arguing against this article, most agree FM is a better game and GT5 is a better sim.

Sorry then I thought you were not convinced about GT5 having the best driving realism in console, that there was someone doubting the same because the brakes can't be upgraded and the cockpit camera vibrates and someone more saying that GT5 physics are a step down from Forza 3. I didn't read the whole thread, all that just in the previous page!

 

[Bogie 19th]

Um, no.

There are a lot of little things that GT5 simulates very well compared to Forza, things that are apparent when you drive with absolutely no driving aids.

Drive the Zonda R in both games with no assists. In Forza, if you give it a little too much throttle in the turns, the tail starts to slip but you can recover it with so much ease & straighten out in just 2 seconds. Do the same in GT, and you'll more than likely have to be precise in your movements because trying to recover the tail can force it to just go the opposite way. This is due to the throttle sensitivity in that car being much higher than Forza's, and as I would expect, a lot more realistic for a 740Hp, MR race car.

Similar note, lift off oversteer in Forza also seems near non-existent because again, you can recover the cars rather easy through turns. I could start putting in decent laps with the NSX-R without ever worrying about having let off the gas mid-turn b/c then you can just tap the brake & power slide through it with a little throttle input.

In short, driving a lot of the cars, esp. the race cars, in GT5 require similar techniques that you have to use in GTR2 to set good laps, something I can't say the same for Forza because all you have to do is watch throttle input.

Um, yes.

Odd, because in GT5 it's like the cars don't even want to break loose, let alone over or understeer. Everything seems too controllable in GT5. Braking late and dumping the gas early has very little affect on whether the car will make the turn properly. GT is almost acting like it's on auto turn at times. This is indeed something I have not experienced in FM3.

Even worse, GT5 rarely has any immediate consequence for any damage simulation. A prime example, it would take me endless hits/crashes to get my car to have any mechanical failures, affecting the driving simulation and physics. With FM3, it's substantially more realistic, the pulling of the left and right of the steering when you have front end damage feels substantially more sim like and realistic. With this damage, you start to see an increase in tire wear as the car pulls yet, also affecting your cornering and top end. Something I have yet to experience in GT5.

Sometimes even the slightest error at highspeeds that might bring me into a wall will have me a lose a gear or two, making acceleration difficult, many times stretching out the revs/rpms just to get the car from first to 3rd to make it around the track. Or even redlining too often, damaging my gear box.

Not sure why we have had exact opposite experiences, but we will have to agree to disagree as well. Maybe you were lucky enough to get a different copy of GT5?

GT5 is a better driving sim, FM3 is a better racing sim. In the end, it doesn't matter though because they are both great games.

 

[E28]

Well, playing Forza at a friends house last night while waiting for 12 o'clock to come, I can say that Forzas physics are no match for GT5, but the selection of cars and career is much better. I'm almost on the verge of getting a new 360, and contradicting my Sony fanboyisms (yes, I admit it) after seeing all those shiny Saleen S281s and the MINI Coupe. But I know GT6 is coming in 2 years or so and will hopefully have these cars and a livery editor.

 

[Bogie 19th]

One has to wonder if anyone here has actually raced in real life when they say something like FM physics are no match for GT5. I would have to assume no.

 

[Zer0]

One has to wonder if anyone here has actually raced in real life when they say something like FM physics are no match for GT5. I would have to assume no.

I supose the journalists from Car and Driver know a little about cars.

Odd, because in GT5 it's like the cars don't even want to break loose, let alone over or understeer. Everything seems too controllable in GT5. Braking late and dumping the gas early has very little affect on whether the car will make the turn properly. GT is almost acting like it's on auto turn at times. This is indeed something I have not experienced in FM3.

From 1:45 to 4:40

Even worse, GT5 rarely has any immediate consequence for any damage simulation. A prime example, it would take me endless hits/crashes to get my car to have any mechanical failures, affecting the driving simulation and physics.

Minute 1:15

Not sure why we have had exact opposite experiences, but we will have to agree to disagree as well. Maybe you were lucky enough to get a different copy of GT5?

I think that's your copy the different from everybody! Do you have the game or did you play in a kiosk with the default options and a controller? all these things are obvious when you play with all aids off, hard tires, a wheel and the damage options set at heavy.

Heavy Damage

As with light damage, this option can damage any of the wheels, tyres, axles or engine wear. However, heavy damage is not very forgiving, so it is likely that you’ll receive the worst damage from any collision rather than the more subtle differences from light damage.

And because this is heavy damage, it’s quite excessive. A collision concentrated on a single wheel will immediately cause the most damage possible, an effect that would require a speed of about 80-100MPH in light damage will need only a 35-40MPH crash with the Heavy option.

If you do crash on that first corner, then you will most likely destroy your steering for the whole of the race. The damage in this mode is permanent and, though the damage can be fixed by a pit stop, only the purist racers should join an online game with heavy damage attached.

 

[McLaren]

Um, yes.

Odd, because in GT5 it's like the cars don't even want to break loose, let alone over or understeer. Everything seems too controllable in GT5. Braking late and dumping the gas early has very little affect on whether the car will make the turn properly. GT is almost acting like it's on auto turn at times. This is indeed something I have not experienced in FM3.

You have not played GT5 with all assists off. It's either that or you haven't driven one of the faster cars. One or the other b/c they will & do break loose very easily.

Forza is the complete opposite.

Even worse, GT5 rarely has any immediate consequence for any damage simulation. A prime example, it would take me endless hits/crashes to get my car to have any mechanical failures, affecting the driving simulation and physics. With FM3, it's substantially more realistic, the pulling of the left and right of the steering when you have front end damage feels substantially more sim like and realistic. With this damage, you start to see an increase in tire wear as the car pulls yet, also affecting your cornering and top end. Something I have yet to experience in GT5.

Again, backwards. I ran into a few walls in GT5, and it didn't take long for me to see the car's alignment completely out of sync. Forza lets you run into a damn wall multiple times at 200Mph without severe issue.

Not sure why we have had exact opposite experiences, but we will have to agree to disagree as well. Maybe you were lucky enough to get a different copy of GT5?

There is no "agree to disagree". Take any of the race cars in GT5, and attempt to run the 'Ring with no assists, as fast as possible. It is impossible not to feel the car's becoming unbalanced or requiring good throttle control unless you just do under 75Mph through the whole course.

GT5 is a better driving sim, FM3 is a better racing sim. In the end, it doesn't matter though because they are both great games.

That's not a very valid point considering, as I've pointed out before, that it's much easier to get closer & more realistic racing out of the AI in GT5, no matter how stupid they can be at times. Forza's just separates too much, even in equal cars.


I like both games very much, but as far as driving experience & the recreation of running at a race track, GT5 has it nailed. The changing atmosphere of the Nurb 24H is proof enough for most.

 

[Bogie 19th]

I appreciate your opinion.

 

[ChadSpeed]

I've played both series extensively and agree that FM is the better race sim, with the exception of questionable tuning/physics at times. While GT has great feel with a wheel, combined with great track modeling makes it very immersive.

I say FM is the better race sim because the damage is flat out better than GT PERIOD. You CANNOT run into any wall at 200mph and not be totaled to the point of only going about 2 mph with a hard steering pull. Also FM has proper collision physics, a slight tap to the rear of a quarter panel and off the car goes sliding away. In GT the same tap would result in an odd kinda two boats hitting in the water hollow sound and no movement or effects to either car. Harder hits in GT can induce some sweet damage effects in the WRC cars though.

GT is perfection if you love doing time trails. You are so immersed when you are alone on the track, just you and your car attacking every apex, feeling the weight move around, seeing it move around even. The only time you will lose the immersion is launching off the line, the cars all bounce off the rev limiter at about 30% throttle, and the throttle is very inconsistently modeled and makes good hard launched impossible. Or if you run into a wall or other car and bounce instead of wreck.

Love em both, but they are way different, and really fun in their own ways.👍

 

[Zer0]

The only time you will lose the immersion is launching off the line, the cars all bounce off the rev limiter at about 30% throttle, and the throttle is very inconsistently modeled and makes good hard launched impossible.

Do you play with controller? never experienced that with a G25, I can sustain the revs on a desired spot with no problem.

 

[Bogie 19th]

I've played both series extensively and agree that FM is the better race sim, with the exception of questionable tuning/physics at times. While GT has great feel with a wheel, combined with great track modeling makes it very immersive.

Indeed. Not to mention, the cars themselves look top notch.

I say FM is the better race sim because the damage is flat out better than GT PERIOD. You CANNOT run into any wall at 200mph and not be totaled to the point of only going about 2 mph with a hard steering pull. Also FM has proper collision physics, a slight tap to the rear of a quarter panel and off the car goes sliding away. In GT the same tap would result in an odd kinda two boats hitting in the water hollow sound and no movement or effects to either car. Harder hits in GT can induce some sweet damage effects in the WRC cars though.

This coupled with the on rail physics is one of the biggest problems with GT5, more so than the other problems plaguing it (lack of customizations).

The only time you will lose the immersion is launching off the line, the cars all bounce off the rev limiter at about 30% throttle, and the throttle is very inconsistently modeled and makes good hard launched impossible.

I haven't run into this. I am using the G27, and I find it hard NOT to have perfect launches.

Or if you run into a wall or other car and bounce instead of wreck.

Still an issue with the bumper car physics no doubt.

Love em both, but they are way different, and really fun in their own ways.👍

Agreed, both have their place and both are fun in their own ways. I have a feeling that GT6 might fix many of these issues.

 

[ChadSpeed]

Do you play with controller? never experienced that with a G25, I can sustain the revs on a desired spot with no problem.

Off course, its easy to hold the revs where you want them, but its all wrong. For instance if I wanted to hold the revs a 5,000 out of a 10,000 Rpm I wouldn't hold the pedal at 50% to do that, more like 15 to 20%. I can't get a car in GT to replicate a real world 0 to 60 time at all. The throttle is so touchy, hell the first 50% of pedal movement gives you an indicated 70% throttle on screen, while the last 5% of pedal travel does nothing because your at 100% indicated throttle before its even floored. Of course its calibrated, try it yourself and you'll see I'm right. This issue was around in GT3 n 4 to, so its just an annoyance, but breaks the immersion for me when I have barley pushed down the pedal on a stock vehicle and it bouncing off the limiter already. To get a decent launch most generally you need around 50% indicated throttle at which point the rev limiter is going nuts bouncing away.

 

[Zer0]

Off course, its easy to hold the revs where you want them, but its all wrong. For instance if I wanted to hold the revs a 5,000 out of a 10,000 Rpm I wouldn't hold the pedal at 50% to do that, more like 15 to 20%. I can't get a car in GT to replicate a real world 0 to 60 time at all. The throttle is so touchy, hell the first 50% of pedal movement gives you an indicated 70% throttle on screen, while the last 5% of pedal travel does nothing because your at 100% indicated throttle before its even floored. Of course its calibrated, try it yourself and you'll see I'm right. This issue was around in GT3 n 4 to, so its just an annoyance, but breaks the immersion for me when I have barley pushed down the pedal on a stock vehicle and it bouncing off the limiter already. To get a decent launch most generally you need around 50% indicated throttle at which point the rev limiter is going nuts bouncing away.

Read this:
http://forums.redflagdeals.com/accellerator-new-cars-too-touchy-790275/

 

[ChadSpeed]

Ya, but that is just something the manufactures are doing now to mask the fact that all the new cars are powerless. They actually have the throttle position sensor calibrated a bit like GT, but again thats only in the greenieweenie cars, not in sports cars though. Good find.

I love having a civilized discussion like this, so nice to argue these points without flaming and fanboys going nuts.

 

[McLaren]

I appreciate your opinion.

The controllable physics, damage, & such issues you comment on as "opinion" show it's based on you not playing deep enough into the game.

There are numerous ways for anyone to experience what Zer0 & I posted about. You claim you've done them, but must be playing a different copy b/c you haven't seen such things. Past debates however, say you're merely commenting such things b/c of your views towards Forza rather than an honest opinion formed from actual gameplay.

 

[Bogie 19th]

The controllable physics, damage, & such issues you comment on as "opinion" show it's based on you not playing deep enough into the game.

There are numerous ways for anyone to experience what Zer0 & I posted about. You claim you've done them, but must be playing a different copy b/c you haven't seen such things. Past debates however, say you're merely commenting such things b/c of your views towards Forza rather than an honest opinion formed from actual gameplay.

Again, we will have to agree to disagree. I say that because we obviously have different experiences and views of the same games. No point in beating a dead horse over opinions.

 

[BigYoSpeck]

Odd, because in GT5 it's like the cars don't even want to break loose, let alone over or understeer. Everything seems too controllable in GT5. Braking late and dumping the gas early has very little affect on whether the car will make the turn properly. GT is almost acting like it's on auto turn at times. This is indeed something I have not experienced in FM3.

All I can imagine is that this is in reference to race cars with high downforce and slicks or playing with all assists because pretty much all cars can be chucked about with lift off and trail braking and anything with more than a few hundred horse power will power oversteer up to 3rd gear.

I did the Schwarzwald League in a bone stock RUF BGT and the only times I wasn't holding a slide was in long 4th and 5th corners. Putting the power down in 2nd and 3rd would always have the rear trying to overtake the front.

 

[ChadSpeed]

His opinion I guess, I personally feel that GT has much more under/oversteer, even too much( Lotus Elise) at times. I does keep you busy, and is very hard to lay down perfect laps, controller or steering wheel. In FM3 however I have no problem getting in the top 1500 times not even using a leaderboard car. In GT I'm lucky to get in the top 10,000 because it takes so much time to learn the perfect lines and the car, ten laps and I give up. But I can believe he is telling the truth, GT is definitely not for everyone and after being spoiled by FM3, going to barebones ( in terms of gameplay/online) GT, there are huge differences that make it hard to overlook the many disappointments in GT5.

 

[Daddybird]

After reading through all the discussion and agreeing with most that GT5 has the edge on the driving experience..... and then seeing some of the GT5 vids and hearing the god awful engine sounds I'm happy sticking with Forza.

 

[prymet1me]

After reading through all the discussion and agreeing with most that GT5 has the edge on the driving experience..... and then seeing some of the GT5 vids and hearing the god awful engine sounds I'm happy sticking with Forza.

The engine sound are so frustrating to me. The cars sound like im riding on top of a transmission I hate it so much. I race modded my Challenger last night and was SO disappointed with the bump cam and cockpit sounds. Granted 3rd person cam sounded great but its terrible to drive in that view. I mean honestly, what muscle car sounds like a gliding transmission when you are riding in it.

Off topic but I finally spent the money and purchased the Mosler on Forza last night and.....HOLYBALLS I love the way that thing handles and drives. I really don't care how close GT5 is to real life hardcore racing I just want T10 to keep improving on what they have. FM feels great with the xbox controller and the sounds in the game are great and customization makes me feel more ownership to my cars then changing the oil.

 

[McLaren]

Again, we will have to agree to disagree. I say that because we obviously have different experiences and views of the same games. No point in beating a dead horse over opinions.

Your experience though, (obviously & by own choice) stems from you not playing with all aids off. That or you're lying b/c the examples I've given will pin point exactly what I'm talking about & where Forza gets its infamous debate regarding it never actually turning off aids.

If this wasn't the case, you wouldn't be so quick to play the, "Agree to disagree" card once your posts are challenged enough.

 

[superb16]

The engine sound are so frustrating to me. The cars sound like im riding on top of a transmission I hate it so much. I race modded my Challenger last night and was SO disappointed with the bump cam and cockpit sounds. Granted 3rd person cam sounded great but its terrible to drive in that view. I mean honestly, what muscle car sounds like a gliding transmission when you are riding in it.

Off topic but I finally spent the money and purchased the Mosler on Forza last night and.....HOLYBALLS I love the way that thing handles and drives. I really don't care how close GT5 is to real life hardcore racing I just want T10 to keep improving on what they have. FM feels great with the xbox controller and the sounds in the game are great and customization makes me feel more ownership to my cars then changing the oil.

Yeah I just got FM3 and I absolutely love it. I've barely touched GT5 in over a week. The engine sounds in FM3 are...(gasp!) REALISTIC! I really need to browse through manufacterers. I didn't even know Mosler was in the game. Coincidentally, one of those cars passed me on the road the other day.

 

[Dopplegagger]

My opinion the engine sounds in Forza needs some work. I feel that they are a little too clean and clear when in the cockpit view, the lack of change despite what you do to the engine or exhaust, and the racing transmissions don't make enough noise. Other sounds issues are the lack of rolling sounds from the tires. I know it's not something you notice when listening to a race car on track, but it's definitely something you'd hear on any stock car.

As for the visuals... I am real jealous of the lighting in Gran Turismo. Other than that, I am satisfied with FM3.

 

[Daddybird]

My opinion the engine sounds in Forza needs some work. I feel that they are a little too clean and clear when in the cockpit view, the lack of change despite what you do to the engine or exhaust, and the racing transmissions don't make enough noise. Other sounds issues are the lack of rolling sounds from the tires. I know it's not something you notice when listening to a race car on track, but it's definitely something you'd hear on any stock car.

As for the visuals... I am real jealous of the lighting in Gran Turismo. Other than that, I am satisfied with FM3.

If you think FM3's sound need improving, listen to GT5; it's horrid. Even cheap bad lousy racing games on the PS2 sound better (honestly).

Yes, ofcourse, the sound can be improved in FM, but this will surely happen with FM4... remember that all the car engine sounds are recorded from real life, so it's as good as it gets (maybe the distortion should be better indeed).

GT5's engine sounds are made by a synthesizer. The needed 6 years to do that, lmao.

 

[prymet1me]

If you think FM3's sound need improving, listen to GT5; it's horrid. Even cheap bad lousy racing games on the PS2 sound better (honestly).

Yes, ofcourse, the sound can be improved in FM, but this will surely happen with FM4... remember that all the car engine sounds are recorded from real life, so it's as good as it gets (maybe the distortion should be better indeed).

GT5's engine sounds are made by a synthesizer. The needed 6 years to do that, lmao.

I was speechless when I read his post, playing GT5 makes me appreciate and notice little things in FM sound I never payed much attention to. The sounds in FM are great.

 

[Dopplegagger]

If you think FM3's sound need improving, listen to GT5; it's horrid. Even cheap bad lousy racing games on the PS2 sound better (honestly).

Yes, ofcourse, the sound can be improved in FM, but this will surely happen with FM4... remember that all the car engine sounds are recorded from real life, so it's as good as it gets (maybe the distortion should be better indeed).

GT5's engine sounds are made by a synthesizer. The needed 6 years to do that, lmao.

I agree on the GT5 sounds, just stating where I thought FM3 needed improvement in the audio department. There are other games/sims where the sounds were pretty convincing even if they werent that accurate. I also agree that Forza can use a bit of fine tuning with it's audio... That was the intended point that I failed to make.

 

[prymet1me]

I agree on the GT5 sounds, just stating where I thought FM3 needed improvement in the audio department. There are other games/sims where the sounds were pretty convincing even if they werent that accurate. I also agree that Forza can use a bit of fine tuning with it's audio... That was the intended point that I failed to make.

I see what you are saying, Shift had interesting details visual and audio for cockpit view. Many people don't like Dan from T10 but I think they do look at what other games do and try or at least think about using it in FM. Despite how the driving in Shift was I really liked what they were doing with the cockpit.

 

[Bogie 19th]

Your experience though, (obviously & by own choice) stems from you not playing with all aids off.

I race with aids off.

That or you're lying b/c the examples I've given will pin point exactly what I'm talking about & where Forza gets its infamous debate regarding it never actually turning off aids.

I guess I didn't realize you were going to be childish. Disregard any conversation we had. I don't have time for antics like that.