From GT5 to FM3

[azrael1965]

Never played FM3 since GT5 was released. GT5 is simply so much better. But I will stil buy FM4.

 

[shaye2k]

When all is said and done, isn't the reason we buy a "sim" racer is because it provides a realistic experience on the track? After owning both fm2 and 3, I have to say gt5 is the better sim, while forza is the better game. I prefer the first...
I may be a little unique in that I don't care for the career mode or painting my car. My enjoyment comes purely from taking a dream car to the track and mastering it. I only wish that I could have some of the cars from forza in GT5.

...I should mention that I use a wheel with GT5.

 

[BigYoSpeck]

Played Forza 2 and 3 with a pad and comparing to GT with a pad they just don't get that feeling of controlling a car down. The physics may be just as good and the car characteristics just as accurate (not spent enough time to know if they are but for arguments sake) but it comes down to that feeling. And throw a wheel in to the equation and faults aside, GT's strength in it's feel makes them all worth enduring if thats whats important to you.

But believe me, there is a lot to endure. I sometimes doubt PD let anyone from outside PD give feedback or even play their own games after they're released.

 

[deftonesmx17]

Play both, you'll enjoy each for their own merits.

 

[StogyBear]

Having played both I would go for GT5 at the end, although. Forza has way better cars then GT5. I would rather take 100 cars from forza's small list than a 100 from GT5's massive list. Customization is way better in forza. Tuning options are also better.

Pretty much the only thing GT5 has over FM3 is better physics and graphics. Thats it.

 

[Jim Prower]

Play both, you'll enjoy each for their own merits.

Good one. I mean, if you have both systems, why not? you'll be about $120 in for both, and since you already have GT5, well, strike that from the list.

Proclaiming that one game "stomps the other" is only good for trolls and fanboys. You may find that one sim tickles your fancy more than the other, but you'll still have both, and when you tire of one you can play the other.

 

[BigYoSpeck]

I think if you can bring your self to play Forza after playing GT, or if you've never played GT you are getting a better game. But if the look, physics and feel of GT gets under your skin nothing else will do.

 

[Cagedheat]

This guy (me) is a big GT fan. I cant even begin to count the hours I put into GT3 and GT4. I loved thoes games. I believed most peoples advise from this site and thought that FM3 would just be an arcade game, not worthy of my time.

However, over christmas I played FM3 at my brothers house, and I am considering buying an Xbox just to play it again! It was wonderful, very fun. yeah, there were somethings I wasnt pleased with, but GT5 is so awfully BORING i cant stand it. I havent truned the game on in 3 or 4 weeks because... well the game sucks. The cars suck. I cant put rims on the cars I drive, make them my own. Just a shi**y game, a total let down.

So I'm still thinking... hmm just not sure when the new Xbox is coming out, I dont want to buy a system and throw it away in a year.

 

[Revelation1115]

I have both systems and I play GT5 for the physics and Forza when I just feel like being creative. I wish they would just join forces and make the ultimate racing game.

 

[deftonesmx17]

I think if you can bring your self to play Forza after playing GT, or if you've never played GT you are getting a better game. But if the look, physics and feel of GT gets under your skin nothing else will do.

Slow down there, just because you believe it's a better game does not make it so. I've jumped on Forza during some of my B-Spec races and have been satisfied.

The look of GT more than gets under my skin.
-Any cars textures that are more than 5-10 in game feet from the camera are low res and blury. The track doesnt seem to have this issue, I mean good lord, does this game somehow use ages old bilinear filtering on the cars only!
-Extreme over use of HDR rendering. There is no reason why every slightly covered area results in super-white overbearing light around or at the end of it.
-Many tracks that look like they were taken right from GT4, but with that overbearing HDR added. Come on, trees that are either completely flat or are two sprites crossed look horrid and are unacceptable nowadays and don't even get me started on the snow and dirt...
-Roughly 800 standard cars are straight from GT4, are low res, and blocky. Seeing as this game is a driving game, that means about 80% of it looks like crap.
-Still trying to figure out why they even added damage when I can run my Lambo into a wall at 190, bounce off, and it only looks like a black smudge and a small fender bender.

However, this isnt just a hate on GT5 post so lets tackle the look of Forza which gets under my skin as well.

-Most of the race tracks have the look of an overcast day and seem dim, but for some reason the sun glares off the car like a mirror on those same tracks.
-Edges of the track are jaggie-fests that can be distracting.
-Colors seem either dull and lifeless or cartoony; very inconsistent sums it up well.

Physics; in GT5 they seem exaggerated if you ask me. When using the in-car view, it's like a vibration fest, even at low speeds. Seriously, there is no reason for this when doing 70mph considering it is not like that when I drive my car down the freeway @ 70mph on lovely pothole filled roads. The braking has this problem as well since race cars do not always lunge forward when the driver slows down. Watch a replay sometime and tell me you don't question the physics engine when you watch your front lip go right through the roads surface. Accidents, go watch a few real ones and let me know how many cars bounce off walls or each other. They don't, instead they seem to suck into the wall. Last but not least, why can I not buy and install upgraded brakes? I'm sorry, but this is an obvious flaw in the physics for braking. It's almost as if better tires give you better braking in GT. While better tire compound will change your braking it doesn't magically make it a lot better like upgraded brakes would.

Forza on the other hand seems a little tame instead of exaggerated with its physics. But.....the fact that I can see telemetry while I am racing makes it feel like they have nothing to hide. I tamed many cars by watching the tire friction while racing. Even though the damage system is better, it is still a far cry from being realistic.

As for overall feel, they both tick me off. Neither has the feel of true racing due to lack of opponents and piss poor looking accidents. I almost feel alone most of the time in both GT and Forza.

 

[Heka Gigantes]

I have gone back to Forza 3 today.

GT5 is a huge disappointment and I am so sorry that I bought a new PS3 + wheel for that game. Never thought that GT5 would be such huge letdown! However, I appreciate Forza 3 so much more now and will be playing it until Forza 4 comes.

 

[BigYoSpeck]

Physics; in GT5 they seem exaggerated if you ask me. When using the in-car view, it's like a vibration fest, even at low speeds. Seriously, there is no reason for this when doing 70mph considering it is not like that when I drive my car down the freeway @ 70mph on lovely pothole filled roads.

What cars are you comparing between game and real life? It's been a while since I've driven the bog standard cars in GT so I can't remember if they still have the same bobbing effect, but I've been in a track tuned Skyline in real life and the vibration in the game is very well simulated for something like that.

It's almost as if better tires give you better braking in GT. While better tire compound will change your braking it doesn't magically make it a lot better like upgraded brakes would.

I think you underestimate the impact tyre grip has on braking. Look at the difference in stopping distance between dry and wet. Increased rolling resistance has a large impact on how that braking force can be applied to the road.

I think you may have misinterpreted my post though. I was saying that Forza is the better game in terms of least frustration, better interface, features etc.. but that if the look and feel of GT, which I still maintain is the closest any game brings me to the feeling of driving, hooks you then none of that matters.

 

[Bogie 19th]

I have to agree, the physics in GT5 are indeed a step down.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

I have to agree, the physics in GT5 are indeed a step down.

A step down from what? Certianly not Forza 3.

As for frustrating Forza 3 is very much so. Everytime I see an AWD Boss Mustang I want to scream. Don;t even get me started on how bad they screwed up the PI ratings in the R2 and R3 classes and the hopper system is a giant leap backwards in online play.

Forza 3 had potential to be a great game and failed badly. Hopefully they will wise up and go back toward the Forza 2 approach in Forza 4 as Forza 2 beats Forza 3 in almost every category except graphics and even then I would rather have the Forza 2 graphic engine than to have to give up so much to use the Forza 3 engine.

 

[ItsHim]

I
As soon as I'm done with GT5 (at the current rate, will be another week or so). I'm going to get stuck in to F3.

I can't see "being done" with GT5 in the near future. Sorry to say but I don't think you understood the GT philosophy. It's not about how fast you get the X2010 nor how fast you reached level 40. That's where the real fun begins!

Then again FM3 wasn't a huge letdown like GT5.

The gameplay might be the same old story, but the driving is spot on and second to none on a console.

well the game sucks. The cars suck. I cant put rims on the cars I drive, make them my own. Just a shi**y game, a total let down.

If you define the quality of a racing game by the ability to ricer your car, then indeed Forza is the better choice.

I don't want to spoil your party, but where GT5 is a car-centered game, FM3 is a made-up-community pimp-my-ride show.

So it's like comparing apples with bananas. Both are green, but only the apple is supposted to be.

 

[prymet1me]

I can't see "being done" with GT5 in the near future. Sorry to say but I don't think you understood the GT philosophy. It's not about how fast you get the X2010 nor how fast you reached level 40. That's where the real fun begins!

Depends on your definition of done, grinding is not for everyone. A spec is short for an offline career. Oh wait, I forgot you can race the same races over and over again with different cars for the "feel" right.

The gameplay might be the same old story, but the driving is spot on and second to none on a console.

General opinion when comparing the two games, but this being the GTP site most will agree.

If you define the quality of a racing game by the ability to ricer your car, then indeed Forza is the better choice.

So any car customization is now ricing? Wow maybe someone should tell Hamann, Roush, Foose and all the other companies this. Not all cars in FM are JDM cars with anime on them. Don't be so close minded.

I don't want to spoil your party, but where GT5 is a car-centered game, FM3 is a made-up-community pimp-my-ride show.

Wow this reminds me of that southpark episode where they were saying, "We don't like your kind round here."

So it's like comparing apples with bananas. Both are green, but only the apple is supposted to be.

Both are racing sims with so can you clarify this analogy? Oh wait let me guess, GT5 is what a racing game should be?

 

[ItsHim]

Depends on your definition of done, grinding is not for everyone.

I don't grind, but you are right, there are a couple of races I indeed redo with different cars or intend to do so. Also the enduros but the 24 hrs ones.

Edit: Sorry for that, but didn't put T10 put up some cars for the money glitchers? Seriously, banning people for abusing a glitch in the game from online play. Nasty.

Besides, I have no strong feelings towards FM3 nor do I want to spam this part of the forums, but simply saying GT5 is an excrement game is too harsh for my liking.

If you are in "modding", drivetrain swaps, painting and general online fuzz, there's only FM3 because GT5 is lacking lightyears.

When and if GT5 is pretty, is a sort of definate prettines FM3 can't compete with. But I give you that that there are more sore thumbs sticking out in GT5 than in FM3.

They both offer totally different gameplay elements (GT5 being thin on this one), but this doesn't qualify GT5 a being so terrible.

So I don't mind reading people not liking for various reasons, but some remarks are borderline bashing for no reason at all.

Oh, as for the fruit thing: Just taste a green apple and a green banana. The first might be a bit sour, the latter isn't just ripe enough. Needless to say, GT5 is the green apple of course

 

[Bogie 19th]

A step down from what? Certianly not Forza 3.

Oh yes, most definitely.

Forza 3 had potential to be a great game and failed badly. Hopefully they will wise up and go back toward the Forza 2 approach in Forza 4 as Forza 2 beats Forza 3 in almost every category except graphics and even then I would rather have the Forza 2 graphic engine than to have to give up so much to use the Forza 3 engine.

I couldn't ever see going back to the way Forza 2 was. It was just leaps and bounds so far behind FM3, it's not even funny. I am hoping GT6 also fixes everything wrong with GT5.

but the driving is spot on and second to none on a console.

I wish that opinion was true.

 

[prymet1me]

Neither game deserves a bashing if the other one doesnt get a bashing. I own both games and appreciate what both games do great. Just really tired of the fanboy bashing flying for either game ESPECIALLY the "blow out of the water" comments. For sakes there are even guys saying that they have never owned an xbox or played FM but it sucks, this is GT planet but god the fanboys are running on pure alcohol here and going full speed.

You put in the "ricer" comment but if it was in GT5 I wonder if you would say the same. Hell man I read a post on here where a guy said Kaz would never ruin the beauty of cars with a livery editor, but yet the all mighty Kaz considers it for GT.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

Oh yes, most definitely.

Really? Are you playing the same Forza 3 and GT5 that I am? Have you noticed that in Forza 3 you can raise the front of a car as high as it will go, lower the rear as low as it will go stiffen the front and soften the rear and the cars top speed will increase? This is not the way GT5 would do nor is it the way a real car would do.

Have you noticed that a car with a powerful engine in Forza 3 turns faster laps when using fewer gears? It took me a long time to tune a fast car in Forza due to this severe error in the physics. In Forza a 1000+hp muslce car with a 3 speed will skunk that same car having a 6 speed close ratio setup.

In GT5 and in Real life the 6 speed close ratio will absolutely destroy the 3 speed setup but in Forza this is not the case.

Cars in Forza 3 do not oversteer nearly as much as they would in real life. Forza 2 had this much better and GT5 is the best of the three Forza 3 being the worst.

In Forza you can lower the ride height of a car and it goes slower where as in real life a low center of gravity will make the car faster in the corners. On Forza higher = faster especially if it is only the front which in real life would be a diaster.

Also in Forza you can lower a car to the bottom and soften the springs to where they are almost non existant and yet the car almost never bottoms out enough to cause a problem.

The list goes on and on. GT5 physics are way beyond those of Forza 3 in terms of realism.

I couldn't ever see going back to the way Forza 2 was. It was just leaps and bounds so far behind FM3, it's not even funny. I am hoping GT6 also fixes everything wrong with GT5.

In what way?

Forza 3 improved the graphics, added some new tracks, some new cars, hoppers and private lobbies as well as rewind and autobrake and of course the lame AWD conversions and the steering assist that can not be removed.

They took away career leaderboards, public lobbies, tuning in lobbies, competitive racing in R4, 3, 2 classes. Local network racing gone, exihibition racing online gone. Ability to buy a custom tuned or painted car and gift it to a friend also removed.

The only major improvements I see that were made is the ability to load a tune and have it apply to correct parts and the addition of the private race lobbies.

To each his own but I have to say that Forza 2 was 10 times better overall than Forza 3 and if Forza 4 follows the mold of Forza 3 then I will not be buying it nor will most of the people I so enjoyed racing with in Forza 2.

GT5 online mode has already brought me more enjoyment than Forza 3 during the whole time I have had it for the simple fact that control of the public lobbies is in the hands of the users and we can actually make a change to our car without havign to leave the lobby first.


IMO Forza 2 is the best online racer on any console to date.
Forza 3 could be rated higher in my book had I not played Forza 2 first but I did and given that they had an already great system which they trashed I can not stress enough how badly I dislike that about the game.
GT5 online has already surpassed Forza 3 but is not in the league of Forza 2 yet. I am hoping it will continue to evolve and improve over time and hopefully surpass Forza 2 in this area.

If Forza 4 gives us back the public racing that we had in Forza 2 then I will buy it gladly but if they choose to do hoppers only they can keep it.

 

[deftonesmx17]

What cars are you comparing between game and real life? It's been a while since I've driven the bog standard cars in GT so I can't remember if they still have the same bobbing effect, but I've been in a track tuned Skyline in real life and the vibration in the game is very well simulated for something like that.

I wasn’t necessarily comparing anything in specific, but merely questioning why almost every premium cars inside view seems to experience this, even with default suspension. I can understand a track tuned (heavy) suspension causing vibrations, but most off the line non high-performance cars have softer suspension. What bothers me the most about this is many cars vibrate as if they have heavy suspension, but feel floaty and bounce like a softer suspension at the same time. To clarify, I am not talking about exotics or high performance cars with that remark.

I think you underestimate the impact tyre grip has on braking. Look at the difference in stopping distance between dry and wet. Increased rolling resistance has a large impact on how that braking force can be applied to the road.

I was more referring to stopping power instead of stopping distance, but you're right that grip impacts braking. However, keep in mind that if ABS is active and doing it's job, then additional grip should have negligible impact on braking. Since ABS prevents wheel lock, slide friction between the road surface and tire compound did not rapidly increase when the brakes were activated. I mention this because the majority of people playing GT5 leave ABS activated. Regardless of that, I find it insane to think anyone would tune a car with race parts and for circuit racing, but leave the stock brakes! Not to mention something such as ventilated brakes would impact braking during wet conditions as they prevent water buildup between the pad and rotor. Temperature is also very important and seemingly overlooked in GT and is a major reason why ventilated brakes are used in racing. A glaring oversight like this stops me from believing their physics model is up to par. No wonder everyone says GT is all about the braking; it's because we are all trying to slow down our supped up, lowered, winged, racing slick wheeled cars with stock brakes!

I think you may have misinterpreted my post though. I was saying that Forza is the better game in terms of least frustration, better interface, features etc.. but that if the look and feel of GT, which I still maintain is the closest any game brings me to the feeling of driving, hooks you then none of that matters.

Well then...uh I'm a and should read better next time.

Have you noticed that a car with a powerful engine in Forza 3 turns faster laps when using fewer gears? It took me a long time to tune a fast car in Forza due to this severe error in the physics. In Forza a 1000+hp muslce car with a 3 speed will skunk that same car having a 6 speed close ratio setup.

In GT5 and in Real life the 6 speed close ratio will absolutely destroy the 3 speed setup but in Forza this is not the case.

You do know peak power is at certain RPM's, right? Most muscle cars are using a supercharger, which according to GT5, boosts power at low-mid RPM's (which is not entirely correct, but whatever). Close ratio 6 speed's are mostly aimed at high RPM's. Are you seeing the problem there?

As for the rest of your comments, downforce does affect top speed. The less you have the faster you will go as surface to tire friction has been reduced. If formula 1 cars had no wings they would literally take flight from their speed.

 

[Bogie 19th]

Really? Are you playing the same Forza 3 and GT5 that I am? Have you noticed that in Forza 3 you can raise the front of a car as high as it will go, lower the rear as low as it will go stiffen the front and soften the rear and the cars top speed will increase? This is not the way GT5 would do nor is it the way a real car would do.

Have you noticed that a car with a powerful engine in Forza 3 turns faster laps when using fewer gears? It took me a long time to tune a fast car in Forza due to this severe error in the physics. In Forza a 1000+hp muslce car with a 3 speed will skunk that same car having a 6 speed close ratio setup.

In GT5 and in Real life the 6 speed close ratio will absolutely destroy the 3 speed setup but in Forza this is not the case.

Cars in Forza 3 do not oversteer nearly as much as they would in real life. Forza 2 had this much better and GT5 is the best of the three Forza 3 being the worst.

In Forza you can lower the ride height of a car and it goes slower where as in real life a low center of gravity will make the car faster in the corners. On Forza higher = faster especially if it is only the front which in real life would be a diaster.

Also in Forza you can lower a car to the bottom and soften the springs to where they are almost non existant and yet the car almost never bottoms out enough to cause a problem.

The list goes on and on. GT5 physics are way beyond those of Forza 3 in terms of realism.



In what way?

Forza 3 improved the graphics, added some new tracks, some new cars, hoppers and private lobbies as well as rewind and autobrake and of course the lame AWD conversions and the steering assist that can not be removed.

They took away career leaderboards, public lobbies, tuning in lobbies, competitive racing in R4, 3, 2 classes. Local network racing gone, exihibition racing online gone. Ability to buy a custom tuned or painted car and gift it to a friend also removed.

The only major improvements I see that were made is the ability to load a tune and have it apply to correct parts and the addition of the private race lobbies.

To each his own but I have to say that Forza 2 was 10 times better overall than Forza 3 and if Forza 4 follows the mold of Forza 3 then I will not be buying it nor will most of the people I so enjoyed racing with in Forza 2.

GT5 online mode has already brought me more enjoyment than Forza 3 during the whole time I have had it for the simple fact that control of the public lobbies is in the hands of the users and we can actually make a change to our car without havign to leave the lobby first.


IMO Forza 2 is the best online racer on any console to date.
Forza 3 could be rated higher in my book had I not played Forza 2 first but I did and given that they had an already great system which they trashed I can not stress enough how badly I dislike that about the game.
GT5 online has already surpassed Forza 3 but is not in the league of Forza 2 yet. I am hoping it will continue to evolve and improve over time and hopefully surpass Forza 2 in this area.

If Forza 4 gives us back the public racing that we had in Forza 2 then I will buy it gladly but if they choose to do hoppers only they can keep it.

We will just have to agree to disagree on our opinions and experiences.

 

[BigYoSpeck]

I was more referring to stopping power instead of stopping distance, but you're right that grip impacts braking. However, keep in mind that if ABS is active and doing it's job, then additional grip should have negligible impact on braking. Since ABS prevents wheel lock, slide friction between the road surface and tire compound did not rapidly increase when the brakes were activated. I mention this because the majority of people playing GT5 leave ABS activated. Regardless of that, I find it insane to think anyone would tune a car with race parts and for circuit racing, but leave the stock brakes! Not to mention something such as ventilated brakes would impact braking during wet conditions as they prevent water buildup between the pad and rotor. Temperature is also very important and seemingly overlooked in GT and is a major reason why ventilated brakes are used in racing. A glaring oversight like this stops me from believing their physics model is up to par. No wonder everyone says GT is all about the braking; it's because we are all trying to slow down our supped up, lowered, winged, racing slick wheeled cars with stock brakes!

Stopping power and distance are surely related factors? The ability to convert the forward momentum into heat in the brakes and tyres. Tyre and suspension quality are just as important in a cars braking power as the quality of the brakes.

And with higher grip tyres, ABS will be activated less as the tyres maintain a higher level of adhesion with the road forcing them to rotate and convert that momentum into heat in the brakes. The less grip the tyre has (or less sticky) the easier it will loose that adhesion and skid, meaning the wheel no longer rotates and causes friction in the brakes making them less effective. ABS solves this by quickly releasing and re-applying the brakes to incur wheel rotation again, this obviously reduces braking effectiveness as they are not applied 100%

But you're right it is silly you can't upgrade the brakes

 

[deftonesmx17]

Stopping power and distance are surely related factors? The ability to convert the forward momentum into heat in the brakes and tyres.

And with higher grip tyres, ABS will be activated less as the tyres maintain a higher level of adhesion with the road forcing them to rotate and convert that momentum into heat in the brakes. The less grip the tyre has (or less sticky) the easier it will loose that adhesion and skid, meaning the wheel no longer rotates and causes friction in the brakes making them less effective. ABS solves this by quickly releasing and re-applying the brakes to incur wheel rotation again, this obviously reduces braking effectiveness as they are not applied 100%

But you're right it is silly you can't upgrade the brakes

I am glad you agree how silly that is.


You are correct, better brakes by themselves don't actually stop a car faster. It's everything combined, but notice how you mention heat multiple times? You're probably doing so as it is a very important factor when it comes to racing. This is why I am so concerned over temperature or wear not being calculated here. A vanilla brake system would not be able to withstand all the heat generated from turn heavy road circuit racing, just for a couple of laps even. Since normal brakes would not allow for this constantly added heat to dissipate quickly enough, they would in turn overheat and thus fail to function properly. The fact that it seems temperature/wear is left out of the braking equation, makes whatever equations are calculating these physics to be fundamentally flawed. How can such an important element of racing logic such as the brakes and temperature/wear be overlooked in what is supposed to be a simulation?
At least Forza takes brake wear into account...

ABS is actually most effective when and where traction is optimal, all while activating less like you said. If traction is optimal an ABS equipped car would have a shorter stopping distance than the same car without ABS equipped brakes. This is due to human error that keeps an individual from staying at optimal pedal pressure or optimal pulsating of the pedal. Granted, a highly trained race car driver may be able to do better, but that is irrelevant as people playing a video game, even using the wheels, are not sitting in and pushing the brake pedal of a real car nor are they highly trained. And now I am getting off-topic.

 

[BorisAMG]

I went back to Forza 3 as well and bought the Ultimate Edition with the DLC. I spent 100+ dollars on GT5 (collectors edition) with hopes of it being a great game. And it was a great game, just not like I thought it would be. I find career to be extremely boring and arcade mode isn't that fun either. The thing I love about Forza is that I can do free play and jump into any car I want and race where ever. Customization is also a lot better in FM3.

I still pop in GT5 every few days to play a little bit. Hope they fix it though.

 

[Zer0]

GT5 is marketed as a simulator, and its physics model is extremely realistic. The behavior of the cars is startlingly faithful to their real-life counterparts, and so they respond accordingly to poor driving and when you miss critical braking and turn-in points. In contrast, Forza is extremely forgiving, and provides a much larger margin of error.

the racing is excellent—credit the finely tuned physics engine and attention paid to individual cars’ handling characteristics—and isn’t that what the game is supposed to deliver?

And so Forza is much more of a game than a hard-core simulator, but for the impatient and those less interested in absolute realism, this is hardly a demerit. Forza may feel slightly less realistic than GT5, but that just means inexperienced players can dive right in

Lapping Laguna in both games supported our conclusion that Gran Turismo 5 is the more challenging of the two, punishing players (especially the less-skilled) with its slavish adherence to real-world physics and handling, and both drivers turned in higher lap times than in Forza. Forza, conversely, made us look like pros, its vehicle-dynamics model allowing for often unrealistic cornering speeds. In Forza, for example, the GTI absolutely refused to exhibit anything resembling bad behavior—you’ll notice our less-experienced player turned the faster lap in the VW—turning in crisply no matter the entry speed, while GT5’s VW faithfully recreated the real car’s penchant for tossability, responding to midcorner throttle lifts with a progressive rotation of the back end and a balanced feel. Cooking into corners with the VW in GT5 also sent us realistically understeering through them.

Forza’s physics engine, however, does not feel as comprehensive, as if it were using the one that was employed in Gran Turismo 3 A-spec or GT4 (10 years or so ago!). The experience, to me, is more of an arcade game; easier to jump in and start playing with less of a learning curve. With the GTI, you simply get somewhere close to your braking marks, turn in, and the car zips around the corner under throttle. GT5’s GTI is far touchier, with the front end washing out more dramatically if you carry too much speed. You must be much more precise and have greater finesse to master GT5. I noticed several corners that were particularly tricky in GT5, yet were surprisingly easy to ace in Forza.

Power oversteer, however, is much easier to manage and thus more entertaining in Forza. The M3 frequently slides around under power, but it was easy to catch and modulate. Again, more arcade-like. GT5, conversely, can get pretty wild if you like to go sideways; the drifting events are the most difficult in the entire game because it’s so easy to get crossed up. You really have to be on top of the car’s behavior and it can get away from you very quickly.

the properly warmed sport tires in Gran Turismo felt about the same as the normal tires in Forza.

Going off track in Forza was less detrimental to vehicle speed and control (less realistic) than in GT5.

Overall, they’re both great driving games. But Forza is the game, while GT5 feels more like an actual simulator, with a steeper learning curve, more opportunities for error, and greater configurability.

Forza is what you play with your friends when hanging out; GT5 is what you attempt to master in solitude—and what makes you end up throwing the controller across the room, because it’s more difficult than it looks.

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/10q4/gran_turismo_5_vs._forza_motorsport_3-feature

Interesting how a professional car magazine rates the driving versus some Forza players.

 

[prymet1me]

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/10q4/gran_turismo_5_vs._forza_motorsport_3-feature

Interesting how a professional car magazine rates the driving versus some Forza players.

Nobody is really arguing against this article, most agree FM is a better game and GT5 is a better sim.

 

[Prodigy122]

Nobody is really arguing against this article, most agree FM is a better game and GT5 is a better sim.

Well said. I would have to agree with the same thing:tup:

 

[McLaren]

Oh yes, most definitely.

Um, no.

There are a lot of little things that GT5 simulates very well compared to Forza, things that are apparent when you drive with absolutely no driving aids.

Drive the Zonda R in both games with no assists. In Forza, if you give it a little too much throttle in the turns, the tail starts to slip but you can recover it with so much ease & straighten out in just 2 seconds. Do the same in GT, and you'll more than likely have to be precise in your movements because trying to recover the tail can force it to just go the opposite way. This is due to the throttle sensitivity in that car being much higher than Forza's, and as I would expect, a lot more realistic for a 740Hp, MR race car.

Similar note, lift off oversteer in Forza also seems near non-existent because again, you can recover the cars rather easy through turns. I could start putting in decent laps with the NSX-R without ever worrying about having let off the gas mid-turn b/c then you can just tap the brake & power slide through it with a little throttle input.

In short, driving a lot of the cars, esp. the race cars, in GT5 require similar techniques that you have to use in GTR2 to set good laps, something I can't say the same for Forza because all you have to do is watch throttle input.

I don't consider either game to be full sim, but in terms of real world physics in cars, GT really nails a lot of the details Forza has rather missed out on. It's main fault is the ability to just drift with so much ease, so any sideways-mishaps, can be turned into drift/powerslide/recovery's if you come into a turn too fast.

 

[JDMLOVER]

It's main fault is the ability to just drift with so much ease, so any sideways-mishaps, can be turned into drift/powerslide/recovery's if you come into a turn too fast.

So it seems that Forza 3's physics were still a much a product of Forza 2? Never played Forza 3 too much (only the demo) with all aids turned off, and the only thing I did really notice was that it was hard to turn, but as far burning out, or over steering, you could forget it. The cars had insane grip, but I could simply not turn the damn things. That's due to not playing much and getting used to it.

What annoyed me about F2 is always powersliding and drifting accidentally. It had a very floaty feel. I did not notice it in this game, but again, I only played the demo and only raced with the R8.