FWD Sports Car?

[Azuremen]

Voters: 111. You have already voted on this poll

Yes 90 81.08%
No 21 18.92%

Cant help myself

Can't help what? Stating the obvious? We can all see the results. But they clearly don't explain the situation, so stop posting them as if it is a conclusive argument. It is rather annoying and juvenille.

 

[Rotary Junkie]

I'm going to finally chime in and say that at least in my eyes there is no such thing as a FWD sports car.

There are many that come close but they'll never quite make it. I can most definitely appreciate their performance capability around corners but they're just not sports cars.

I do consider pony cars to be sports cars (despite not being particularly good ones) but they are still sports cars. FWD is a compromise for interior space and cost efficiency almost all of the time and a sports car should do what it does as well as it can.

 

[McLaren]

I'm going to finally chime in and say that at least in my eyes there is no such thing as a FWD sports car.

There are many that come close but they'll never quite make it. I can most definitely appreciate their performance capability around corners but they're just not right for a proper sports car.

And what is it they have to do to "make it"?

 

[Rotary Junkie]

Not be FWD. Or defy physics, your choice.

 

[McLaren]

Not be FWD. Or defy physics, your choice.

So, this isn't a sports car because it's FWD, despite the fact that it was purposely built as a sports car.

How does FWD keep a car (that's designed as a sports car) from a company (that is known for sports cars) from actually being one?

I'll also throw in Lotus' reasoning that Wiki provided:

for a given vehicle weight, power and tyre size, a front wheel drive car was always faster over a given section of road. There were definite advantages in traction and controllability, and drawbacks such as torque steer, bump steer and steering kickback were not insurmountable.

 

[niky]

I'm going to finally chime in and say that at least in my eyes there is no such thing as a FWD sports car.

There are many that come close but they'll never quite make it. I can most definitely appreciate their performance capability around corners but they're just not sports cars.

I do consider pony cars to be sports cars (despite not being particularly good ones) but they are still sports cars. FWD is a compromise for interior space and cost efficiency almost all of the time and a sports car should do what it does as well as it can.

Unfortunately, you'll have to define in concrete terms why they aren't.

If, like Keef, you personally think they aren't because, in your personal opinion, they aren't, regardless of performance, that's it. I'll disagree with you, but it's your opinion.

I'd like to point out it's just like saying all Pizza must be round. Just because most Pizzas are round doesn't mean that they can't be square (and yes, there are square traditional Pizzas).

But if you invent reasons that aren't reasons, there are lots of ways to poke holes in your argument.

You state that you consider pony cars to be sports cars, but pony cars are a compromise for interior space (high roofline, 2+2 seating, front engine to give you a useable trunk) and cost-efficiency (manufacturing synergy, since they're built on the same platform as sedans by the same manufacturer). If you argue via these functions, there are FWD sports cars that are far less compromised and far more deserving of the title "sports car" than "pony cars" are.

And defying physics is something front-drivers can do quite well... thank you.

(as well as training future F1 and Rally champions...)

 

[Eric.]

And pretty much every FWD "sports car" in the thread will outhandle a pony car.

 

[mustangGT90210]

After reading a bit, the most logical thought to me is this: A FWD car is not a sports car unless expressly designed for the purpose of sport. ITR, Civic Si, etc = not sports cars, just sporty cars. Elan, that other lotus up there, = sports car, because that was the plan when they were designed, not an afterthought.

 

[Eric.]

But then you have to consider that Honda doesn't just build an economy car and then hand it off to Mugen or whoever does the development for the Type Rs. They're designed with both purposes in mind. Otherwise it wouldn't just happen to be one of the benchmarks each time a new one is released.

 

[mustangGT90210]

If it goes fast, and handles decent enough, sports car!

Sports car = car that likes to be driven fast. fast is relative to the overall speed achievable in the car and the turns it's taking

Now, I quit!

 

[Horde_R35]

Can't help what? Stating the obvious? We can all see the results. But they clearly don't explain the situation, so stop posting them as if it is a conclusive argument. It is rather annoying and juvenille.

Exactly to point the obvious! And to your information i post what i want! Juvennile are those who still post arguments that arent in anyway stating the truth about FWD cars! Your all trying to find a way to "remove" the real truth of a FF car beeing a sports car! And has i said before, argumenting against manufatores, a world of magazines, critics and REAL racing drivers IS juvennile! Saying one thing and after a few posts counter yourselfs, and/or changing your opinions coz another guy said or added something in contrary! That IS juvenille. 👎! Conclusive argument?! Has you or anyone in here will find one, or prove anything to the "World"... please... !

 

[Keef]

Where did I say anything about sports cars? Nowhere.

You proposed the idea that a FWD car can not be a sports car. Fine, I respect that. But then, you posted that a BMW 5 Series is more of a sports car than Civic Si solely on the fact that Si is FWD.

That to me screams that you're somebody who believes a FWD car can not be anything but economical, which is the same ignorant thought as drifters.

I'm just following my rules. The BMW breaks two rules: it has four doors, whereas two are required to be a sports car, and it has 5 seats, which is 3 more than allowed in a sports car. The Civic breaks 3 rules, which are the previous two and that it is front wheel drive. So per my rules, yes, the BMW is more of a sports car because it's less not-a-sports-car.

But it's not a sports car because it doesn't satisfy all the rules. No, I didn't pick up some ridiculous drifter mentality all the sudden, I believe you're just being prejudiced. You seem absolutely flabbergasted that I refuse to call my own car a sports car. My Civic is missing it's front end, but because the engine and suspension still work that means that it'll still do everything better than the RX7. What do you think of that?

 

[Horde_R35]

My Civic is missing it's front end, but because the engine and suspension still work that means that it'll still do everything better than the RX7. What do you think of that?

I posted a video a few pages ago proving just that! In advance someone will say a sports car has nothing to do with performance...

 

[Eric.]

If it goes fast, and handles decent enough, sports car!

Sports car = car that likes to be driven fast. fast is relative to the overall speed achievable in the car and the turns it's taking

Now, I quit!

That's what I'd agree to.

 

[Keef]

I posted a video a few pages ago proving just that! In advance someone will say a sports car has nothing to do with performance...

I already did that long before you did...

Again, I refer you to my love for my Civic, and this video:



...But it's not a real sports car, bub. It just isn't.

Already proved it, through this video and personal experience. Sometimes FWD cars perform better, and not just by chance. But they're not sports cars.

 

[McLaren]

I'm just following my rules. The BMW breaks two rules: it has four doors, whereas two are required to be a sports car, and it has 5 seats, which is 3 more than allowed in a sports car. The Civic breaks 3 rules, which are the previous two and that it is front wheel drive. So per my rules, yes, the BMW is more of a sports car because it's less not-a-sports-car.

It's not Keef. You need to accept that & ignore your "rules".

But it's not a sports car because it doesn't satisfy all the rules. No, I didn't pick up some ridiculous drifter mentality all the sudden, I believe you're just being prejudiced. You seem absolutely flabbergasted that I refuse to call my own car a sports car. My Civic is missing it's front end, but because the engine and suspension still work that means that it'll still do everything better than the RX7. What do you think of that?

I never called your car a sports car nor my own. I don't care what you call your car honestly.

But don't tell me my 5 is more of a sports car than the Si or even the TL, & ignore the fact that the Si drives more like a sports car should, accelerates more like a sports car should, handles more like a sports car should, or that it comes only in a proper 6-speed manual (which should satisfy some people).

Next thing I know, you'll tell me a Maybach is more of/equal to a sports car than a Focus RS or the Lotus Elan from earlier.

 

[Famine]

I posted a video a few pages ago proving just that! In advance someone will say a sports car has nothing to do with performance...

That was also done many pages ago. The definitive modern sportscar is the MX-5, and the 80hp 1.6 Mk1 MX-5 has the performance of a present-day city car.

 

[Leonidae@MFT]

Wasn't that Elan originally planned as RWD instead of FWD?

 

[McLaren]

Wasn't that Elan originally planned as RWD instead of FWD?

It may have been, but when they were finished, they realized FWD was the best way to go with it.

 

[Tornado]

Wasn't that Elan originally planned as RWD instead of FWD?

Maybe. Maybe not. The original concept car of the early 80s was designed when Lotus was being buddies with Toyota and was FR; but the M100 Elan was developed with GM money around GM engines, and was designed to be FWD at least as early as when Lotus chose what engine they wanted to use.

 

[TVC]

Wasn't that Elan originally planned as RWD instead of FWD?

At the time Lotus was owned by GM. Chances are the reason it was FWD was due to pressure from GM. I do not know if that has ever been confirmed but most people agree that is the reason or at least part of the reason it was FWD. It was around the time GM started to make basically all their cars FWD...

 

[Azuremen]

Exactly to point the obvious! And to your information i post what i want! Juvennile are those who still post arguments that arent in anyway stating the truth about FWD cars! Your all trying to find a way to "remove" the real truth of a FF car beeing a sports car! And has i said before, argumenting against manufatores, a world of magazines, critics and REAL racing drivers IS juvennile! Saying one thing and after a few posts counter yourselfs, and/or changing your opinions coz another guy said or added something in contrary! That IS juvenille. 👎! Conclusive argument?! Has you or anyone in here will find one, or prove anything to the "World"... please... !

Wow. Right. Okay. So because someone with a title says this is that, it must be so. What is juvenille is that you have not really posted anything of value in this thread so far. Yes, some videos of performance by FWD cars. But if you've been reading, the performance versus performance thing varies.

For example, I am pretty sure a new V6 Camry could out perform a Miata at a road course. But I would hardly call that Camry a sports car. Performance argument failure right there.

Further, I ask you this - have you ever driven a pure RWD sports car? And if so, what car and in what capacity? Because the moment, you are reeking of JDM Fanboy syndrome, down to the anime avatar.

 

[Lucas]

Because the moment, you are reeking of JDM Fanboy syndrome, down to the anime avatar.

Finally! A point which we all can agree with. 👍

 

[Horde_R35]

Finally! A point which we all can agree with. 👍

Hmmm maybe the 25 who voted no, yes!

EDIT: off the top of my head i driven my friends NSX! Wich in you guys opinion (and mine) is a true sports car! We probably will agree on that

 

[Azuremen]

Hmmm maybe the 25 who voted no, yes!

What does that mean? Is this back to you assuming all 25 people that voted "no" are Americans that love V8's and that is it?

EDIT: off the top of my head i driven my friends NSX! Wich in you guys opinion (and mine) is a true sports car!

At a track? Hard? An MR pure sport drives completely differently than ANY FWD car, no matter how gussied up it maybe. I think we can agree on this?

 

[Lucas]

At a track? Hard? An MR pure sport drives completely differently than ANY FWD car, no matter how gussied up it maybe. I think we can agree on this?

Not to mention it is completely irrelevant to the topic at hand.
Tell your friend that he has a nice NSX-R, by the way. 👍 One of the few japanese cars I hold in high estime.

 

[Horde_R35]

At a track? Hard? An MR pure sport drives completely differently than ANY FWD car, no matter how gussied up it maybe. I think we can agree on this?

Yes at the track and i was amazed what the car corners! I told to my friend: " Now i know why they call it the Legend!" Mid cornering and exits was mind blowing!

RWD will always have the best performance and will always be that way! Never said otherwise.

 

[TVC]

At a track? Hard? An MR pure sport drives completely differently than ANY FWD car, no matter how gussied up it maybe. I think we can agree on this?

This is true. I have heard that even when the Elan M100 is pushed to it's limit (or around it) you can feel you are driving a FWD car. The M100 is also considered to be one of the few FWD cars that didn't really feel or perform like other FWD cars. 👍

 

[Keef]

RWD will always have the best performance and will always be that way! Never said otherwise.

I have said otherwise, because it is not always true. Remember that video you posted that clearly showed a front drive car beating rear drive cars? Rear wheel drive does not always have the best performance, and yes you did say otherwise.

So now we're not even talking about sports cars, we're talking about how you can't get your story straight.

 

[TVC]

I have said otherwise, because it is not always true. Remember that video you posted that clearly showed a front drive car beating rear drive cars? Rear wheel drive does not always have the best performance, and yes you did say otherwise.

So now we're not even talking about sports cars, we're talking about how you can't get your story straight.

I think he means in general. Of course a FWD car that is tuned better than a RWD car will be faster but in general FWD is usually worse the RWD.