- 353
- Serbia
Give us better sounds - PLEASE !!
- Thread starter steamcat
- 4,667 comments
- 348,782 views
yep if anyone has a copy of gt6/forza4/5 i with this sounds i would trade my gaming pc for that.
as for now bad pc racing sim mods have their sounds more spot on as gt5/6 forza 4/5.
- 374
- Germany
Same will be said when GT on PS4 doesn't have realistic sound.
I will never understand people, who defend PD or the sound in this game. I have passion for this franchise, but it is really annoying and sad to see PD having such problems with sound. Ask the driveclub developer for help, if you don't know how car should sound! At least one car sounds better, so their is hope.
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- 8,713
- 74
- Vantaa
- Peg193
There is no real hardware limitations for the sound update. There are already cars that sounds acceptable such as new Lotus, HSV-010 (one of my favorite cars in GT6 because of this) and some road cars ( for example Ferrari 458 has IMO pretty good sound but the engine sound just should be louder as in most other higher performance cars). The problem is mixing the sounds (louder engine sound compared to other effects), too loud tire sounds and the lack of good samples. More samples does not require more powerful system, it only takes some hard disk space. And if PD would bring new samples, some already existing ones could be removed. That would be enough for acceptable sounds.
On the other hand, in order to create even more realistic sounds the intake sound and other effects should be included and then the hardware limitations might be a real issue. Therefore it is possible that PD doesn't bother updating GT6 sounds as they want to do a complete overhaul at once with more details in sounds which would be too much for PS3. But I still really hope that the sound update makes in GT6.
On the other hand, in order to create even more realistic sounds the intake sound and other effects should be included and then the hardware limitations might be a real issue. Therefore it is possible that PD doesn't bother updating GT6 sounds as they want to do a complete overhaul at once with more details in sounds which would be too much for PS3. But I still really hope that the sound update makes in GT6.
- 8,713
The hard disk / BluRay are irrelevant as the samples are loaded into and stored in memory at run time, from where they are read at varying rates depending on the engine speed, and these are blended together according to the control conditions (e.g. rpm, throttle etc.). So you've got resamplers running on every sample currently being heard, as well as stream multiplication and addition per sample.
Adding more samples increases that load, as well as taking up more RAM.
GT's problem is its lack of additional sources, namely intake and a few other effects; these require more samples, but also more effort in the mixing into the total scene (more sources, more mixing operations). This is likely the largest limitation, and it seems PD are working on finding ways to add more sources without having to play them all back at the same time. That is what I think is causing the drop outs for some people, for example, but there are other clues.
Its problem is also its number of samples per octave (engine speed) and per throttle position (GT doesn't have on/off throttle samples) per source, and the length and bitrate of those samples. That limits the expressiveness and fidelity of the resulting sound. Improving all of those things increases the RAM requirement and vastly increases the complexity of the control and the balancing and alignment of all the samples. E.g., how do you ensure the intake sample is properly phased with the exhaust (i.e. more or less by a stroke) for all samples for all engine speeds?
That says nothing of the sample mis-allocation issue, of course (6 cylinder S2000s and the like) and it's funny that you should mention the Lotus (I presume 97T), as the loudest and most expressive part of that sound is not a sampler.
However, the fact that there is a sampler and that new sound running at the same time on the Red Bull / Senna cars, combined with the changes to the mixing engine, bodes well for PD adding more sources in the future. Crucially, the sound engine is already set up for it, in terms of the overall structure, it just needs tweaks to the components...
- 4,022
- Cincinnati, OH
- 74
- Vantaa
- Peg193
By adding more samples I meant that they should record more different engine sounds with current quality and not use some generic sounds to many cars in order to make sounds acceptable for me at least. That should not increase the load for RAM or I am wrong? Does it take equal amount of ram sounds wise from PS3 to run a 16 car grid of, lets say Pagani Zondas with all of course same sounds compared with a 16 car grid of various supercars with different sounds assuming that all those different sounds are as tough for the system. I am not expert of the way how GT6 plays different sounds so I might be wrong of course.
- 8,713
There's potentially an obvious reason they haven't made any new samples for the game, outside of one or two exceptions, since GT4.
For example, we know that PD recorded the Audi R8 on Audi's anechoic rolling road. The car in the game does not bear this out.
The reason, in my opinion, is because the "completely new way of generating sounds" they have been working on, feasibly, does not rely on samples. So, all the new recordings, instead of being processed into samples, have been used as a reference for some other method; that method is not working fully in the game yet.
So we haven't heard the work they've been focusing on, and have had to make do with old work they've carried over.
- 676
- Toronto, CAN
- Guynemer27
The final answer about last poll contender... “Of course I myself am not satisfied with the sound in Gran Turismo, and to the players out there I can only say, uum, I’m really sorry.”... that's how Kaz is answering the most important problem of GT! so hopeless!
- 1,029
- Ohio
- jimmyfoxhound
A bit off topic but that also demonstrates how ridiculously loud the tire sounds are in the game. They shouldn't over power the sound of the engine!
One thing that has bugged me about the 787 is the weird staticy nature of the engine sound. it almost sounds like the sample they're using has some sort of distortion in it. In the real life video the engine sounds so loud and smooth but in GT it really has this unpleasant static in it.
mister dog
(Banned)
- 8,396
- Spain
- misterdog
- misterdog7
A tempting fate from the 7th post on 1st page.....2 YEARS AGO:
No, it still isnt, well, barely. So no forgiveness from him.
No, it still isnt, well, barely. So no forgiveness from him.
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- 4,022
- Cincinnati, OH
Reports from my friend that the sounds on the TS030 are bad. Looks like they're trying really hard.
- 2,012
^First things first, nice avatar.
Part 1 and Part 2 are the only ones available so far. Having read both, while it's true that sentence is out of context and also most probably won't be the final answer we are getting, that sentence actually happens to sum up both part one and two entirely: Kaz is sorry about the quality of sounds in the GT series to this day, mainly caused by their recording techniques, which changed in 2003 (thanks to that guy that appeared from time to time in Best Motoring explaining Honda engines). In the end the "I'm sorry" sentence is a major part of the final answer.
I hope part 3 addresses why the sounds recorded with the new 2003 technique still aren't up to industry standards. By looking at dates it seems that "premium" GT5 and GT6 cars should all have this new sound, but so far they don't.
BTW it's high time to remind PD (if they read this) what are the actual questions, because in that thread no one asked for an explanation nor an apology, but the following, concrete questions:
1. When the announced sound update will be in place for GT6.
2. If it will replace all the "placeholders" (copypasting sounds from car to car). In other words, what's the extent of this update in terms of sound samples.
3. Concerns in general about if PD will be able to make that update work well and be comprehensive enough, considering not even cars made for GT6 have this 2014 updated sound.
4. If I may add my own questions in relation to the others, those would be:
a) If there's a new recording technique in place since 2003, why do "premium" cars still sound badly to this day (explanation)?
b) Why only the Senna cars have this 2014 updated sound (explanation)?
c) Concretely, if these new 2014 sound techniques (different than samples) will be applied to every car in the game, or to which. In that sense one thing is to replace the samples of all cars (question two), which seems difficult as it will take re-recording for most cars in the game, and another to replace the mixing applied to all cars, which seems doable and should work wonders for all cars, especially for "premiums" (those with the 2003 recording technique already applied).
And I'll use this opportunity to explain my previous post here, about "standard" and "premium" sounds. I find a bit absurd that everything in the GT series is so inconsistent, with four different distinct qualities in its 2014 itineration:
- "Standard". Content from GT4 and prior, with little to no improvement. Even though that content is at least 10 years old somehow it still is in 2014's GT6. Cars don't have interiors, quite bad exteriors for today's standards, sounds recorded in prehistoric ways, etc. Examples are the Alto Works, Laguna Seca, car engine sounds of those cars.
- "Semi premium", or "Above standard". In this group there are the selected standard cars that were updated a bit. Even though PD announced that all standard cars were getting updated to at least "semi premium" quality, still without interior but an acceptable exterior, in reality not all were updated -if not less than a half- and most of those that are known to have been updated still can't really be considered of "semi-premium" exterior quality. Sound is the exact same as "standard". https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...-bad-and-the-ugly.291012/page-84#post-9781628
- "Premium": Cars, tracks and sounds made for GT5 and for GT6. Of course they got better at it quality-wise in GT6, so the assets made for that particular game are a bit better than those made for GT5 (but I didn't want to make yet another category). Car models are pretty good, having modeled interiors and nice exteriors. Issues are tracks aren't laser scanned so layout isn't 100% precise and there's a noticeable lack of bumps -though acceptable-, plus sounds are still of very low quality, for various reasons discussed in this thread and what the questions are about. Examples are the Sauber C9, Silverstone and most sounds in those said games, including the "placeholders" engines (copypasting sounds from car to car, somehow thinking they'll fool us). This and the other categories have "standard sounds"
- "Above premium": hand picked content in GT6 of considerably better quality than all the rest. Very scarce, closer to PC sims quality. The sole cases so far are the three Senna cars (maybe the X2014 too), including their sounds which can be considered "premium sounds"; Bathurst and the A1 ring. So far there's no official statement nor any mention about this category by PD, but it's clear the said content is superior from previous.
Part 1 and Part 2 are the only ones available so far. Having read both, while it's true that sentence is out of context and also most probably won't be the final answer we are getting, that sentence actually happens to sum up both part one and two entirely: Kaz is sorry about the quality of sounds in the GT series to this day, mainly caused by their recording techniques, which changed in 2003 (thanks to that guy that appeared from time to time in Best Motoring explaining Honda engines). In the end the "I'm sorry" sentence is a major part of the final answer.
I hope part 3 addresses why the sounds recorded with the new 2003 technique still aren't up to industry standards. By looking at dates it seems that "premium" GT5 and GT6 cars should all have this new sound, but so far they don't.
BTW it's high time to remind PD (if they read this) what are the actual questions, because in that thread no one asked for an explanation nor an apology, but the following, concrete questions:
1. When the announced sound update will be in place for GT6.
2. If it will replace all the "placeholders" (copypasting sounds from car to car). In other words, what's the extent of this update in terms of sound samples.
3. Concerns in general about if PD will be able to make that update work well and be comprehensive enough, considering not even cars made for GT6 have this 2014 updated sound.
4. If I may add my own questions in relation to the others, those would be:
a) If there's a new recording technique in place since 2003, why do "premium" cars still sound badly to this day (explanation)?
b) Why only the Senna cars have this 2014 updated sound (explanation)?
c) Concretely, if these new 2014 sound techniques (different than samples) will be applied to every car in the game, or to which. In that sense one thing is to replace the samples of all cars (question two), which seems difficult as it will take re-recording for most cars in the game, and another to replace the mixing applied to all cars, which seems doable and should work wonders for all cars, especially for "premiums" (those with the 2003 recording technique already applied).
And I'll use this opportunity to explain my previous post here, about "standard" and "premium" sounds. I find a bit absurd that everything in the GT series is so inconsistent, with four different distinct qualities in its 2014 itineration:
- "Standard". Content from GT4 and prior, with little to no improvement. Even though that content is at least 10 years old somehow it still is in 2014's GT6. Cars don't have interiors, quite bad exteriors for today's standards, sounds recorded in prehistoric ways, etc. Examples are the Alto Works, Laguna Seca, car engine sounds of those cars.
- "Semi premium", or "Above standard". In this group there are the selected standard cars that were updated a bit. Even though PD announced that all standard cars were getting updated to at least "semi premium" quality, still without interior but an acceptable exterior, in reality not all were updated -if not less than a half- and most of those that are known to have been updated still can't really be considered of "semi-premium" exterior quality. Sound is the exact same as "standard". https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...-bad-and-the-ugly.291012/page-84#post-9781628
- "Premium": Cars, tracks and sounds made for GT5 and for GT6. Of course they got better at it quality-wise in GT6, so the assets made for that particular game are a bit better than those made for GT5 (but I didn't want to make yet another category). Car models are pretty good, having modeled interiors and nice exteriors. Issues are tracks aren't laser scanned so layout isn't 100% precise and there's a noticeable lack of bumps -though acceptable-, plus sounds are still of very low quality, for various reasons discussed in this thread and what the questions are about. Examples are the Sauber C9, Silverstone and most sounds in those said games, including the "placeholders" engines (copypasting sounds from car to car, somehow thinking they'll fool us). This and the other categories have "standard sounds"
- "Above premium": hand picked content in GT6 of considerably better quality than all the rest. Very scarce, closer to PC sims quality. The sole cases so far are the three Senna cars (maybe the X2014 too), including their sounds which can be considered "premium sounds"; Bathurst and the A1 ring. So far there's no official statement nor any mention about this category by PD, but it's clear the said content is superior from previous.
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- 676
- Toronto, CAN
- Guynemer27
Overreacting? far from it, I was expecting this sort of answer from the guru himself: Nothing that we already knew. We already knew that they recorded cars ! but by some magical GT "filter", most of these sounds are not translated into the game well as they mostly all sound bad, digital and metallic, the high revs are a disgrace, and the effects pretty much non existent... Die hard GT fans seem to be the ones to overreact: As I said before, GT fans are like starved people, any rare drops of water from "god" (ie: Kaz) is like a feast for them: last Lotus T97 and F3 sounds "slightly" better than the others, WOOW, GT is a godly again! However, any PC players of RRE, pCArs, modded Assetto Corsa or IRacing Laugh out loud about these "better" sound. Who's overreacting? especially when it's business as usual with the new cars of this update, they all sound LIKE CRAP! [again].
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- xmalcolmpowderx
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
- 35,179
- Addison,Texas
- GTP_RACECAR
I read all the post, I just found that part of his post ironic considering the over the top way he seems to post whenever I see him in these forums (which I don't find all that constructive or contributing to the subjects he usually responds to). I just think he can easily make his point without them, otherwise it just comes off to me like he's yelling about everything and not civil.
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
- 35,179
- Addison,Texas
- GTP_RACECAR
I'm only reffering to his use of the exclamation marks, which is why I said he could easily make his point without them. Like I said, it just comes off to me like he's yelling everytime I see a post of his around here (as if to strike down with furious anger, just without the gun and fro). Maybe I'm misinterpreting what I see, but that's just what it always looked like to me.
- 1,240
- Italy
It's not a vague answer - it's a long-ongoing answer.
I like how he goes back to GT1 time explaining in detail the recording and production process - you want to understand then you gotta read - I find it extremely interesting to learn how they did it.
I'm sure part 3,4,5 (or how many there will be) will go up to GT6/GT7 and PS4, in final giving us the answer about sound update on PS3 either taking place or not.
I like how he goes back to GT1 time explaining in detail the recording and production process - you want to understand then you gotta read - I find it extremely interesting to learn how they did it.
I'm sure part 3,4,5 (or how many there will be) will go up to GT6/GT7 and PS4, in final giving us the answer about sound update on PS3 either taking place or not.
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