Give us better sounds - PLEASE !!

[Griffith500]

So in the end:

a)They proceeding with the game they had in mind anyway without properly planning and investigating whether the hardware was really adequate for it.

b)The game they had in mind didn't include good sounds.


I think both along with the in-between variations are pretty bad for one of the most popular and very profitable gaming series.

Yes, their focus on graphics means the sounds suffered. Hardly revelatory.
That means, going forwards, there is little room on the hardware for graphics improvements and improvements to the sound, at least not of the sort that people might be expecting.

That said, and I'm repeating myself now, the tessellation will have freed up a chunk of memory because those Premium models could effectively be half the size without the extra LoD meshes. Also, sound is, apparently, currently a major priority for PD. No promises though.

 

[Samus]

Memory issues or not a lot of the sound issues are simply down to wrong/bad samples. Just look at the HSV, clearly that first sample was absolutely nothing like the real car and after two changes they eventually got a sample that sounded something like it. It was still limited by the same memory issues but at least it sounded something like the real car.

 

[Griffith500]

Memory issues or not a lot of the sound issues are simply down to wrong/bad samples. Just look at the HSV, clearly that first sample was absolutely nothing like the real car and after two changes they eventually got a sample that sounded something like it. It was still limited by the same memory issues but at least it sounded something like the real car.

Yes, but the current samples, like the Standards, are not PD's focus. My theory is that the interns did it, because (although spec, appearance and sound inaccuracies are a GT trait, probably partly hindered by its scale and scope) it's never been as bad as it is in GT5.

Obviously an average of two to three different complete sets of samples for 1000 cars is a nightmare with or without duplicates / genericisms.

The HSV currently uses motorcycle samples for the engine (and a V10 exhaust detuned to 4/5ths) - the intake sound is more prominant on PD's bike sounds, so that helps.

 

[Samus]

Which makes it all the more frustrating when Kaz keeps saying that sounds are a priority but seemingly it's just words, the priority still appears to be low. Surely just hiring one top sound guy would help a great deal. Poach one from another developer or find someone with the talent. There doesn't seem to be anyone like that at PD right now.

 

[RattijuoppoFIN]

It's true, but I think that if you're clever you could narrow it down a lot. You don't need 1200 unique sounds.

First make a library of 20 or 30 sounds covering as wide a range of engine types as possible. Spend the time and make them good, people are gonna hear these a lot. You've probably already covered all the econoboxes and most of the mid-range non-sports cars.

There's a lot of duplicates and near duplicates that use the same engines that would cut down the numbers a lot. A LOT. Do you need a unique engine sound for all the different 1.8L Miatas? Not really. Duplicate wherever possible. Tweaking an existing good sound is better than starting from scratch.

SNIP

Following this, you'd get the vast majority of the cars in the game with decent sound, with the least amount of work.

Well said. Some very clever thoughts. And this is what makes my tummy grudge so hard. This isn't something that a huge game studio backed by Sony can't achieve. They simply couldn't be bothered. And to invoke it to the health or well being of PD is just stupid. I mean come on, its unlikely that a multi-million game studio with hundreds of staff couldn't manage such a task with reasonable work load on workers.

I think that's the plan, at least with the latest GTs, make money so that KY can live his dream racing at the ring and getting involved with NIssan which is cool for him but it's clear that the game isn't his main focus anymore.

GT is basically KY's cash cow. I don't think he spends any time at the office at all.

I'm getting to a point where I have to acknowledge that this is true.

The problem with the sound is the PS3 hardware limitations. SNIP

This is so not true. Most of the problems sound wise is the fact that the samples are from a WRONG CAR!
This equals to the Aventador sounding like a V10 or the Original Weider SGT car sounding like a SC430.
CLEARLY that is not something hardware related. Its just PD being lazy. And as long as people buy the game even when it has faults they could not care less about it.

 

[Griffith500]

Which makes it all the more frustrating when Kaz keeps saying that sounds are a priority but seemingly it's just words, the priority still appears to be low. Surely just hiring one top sound guy would help a great deal. Poach one from another developer or find someone with the talent. There doesn't seem to be anyone like that at PD right now.

What? No, they don't have room for their new sounds when all that memory was being used for graphics. You haven't heard any of their recent work at a modern standard - like the Standards are not representative of modern modeling standards (ha, words...).

Going by their sound engine, they are pretty clued up and are moving in the same direction as iRacing, but even more procedural.

He doesn't "keep" saying anything about sound. And "seem"? Argumentum ad ignorantiam, but we were doing so well.

 

[RattijuoppoFIN]

What? No, they don't have room for their new sounds when all that memory was being used for graphics.

How can you not realize the fact that low memory has nothing to do with the fact that the samples are from a wrong source! It doesn't save memory when you record sounds from a motorbike to a V8 race car god dammit!

 

[Samus]

Why have we gone back to memory again? Didn't we just agree that even with that limitation the sounds could certainly be improved/changed if given the attention? That's why I said it'd be good to hire someone to put in charge of sound and why it doesn't seem like they have someone with that skill at the moment. If they did the interns wouldn't be doing sound as you theorised earlier.

Kaz has said in a few interviews recently that sound is a priority and something they're working on so yeah, he does keep saying it.

 

[Griffith500]

How can you not realize the fact that low memory has nothing to do with the fact that the samples are from a wrong source! It doesn't save memory when you record sounds from a motorbike to a V8 race car god dammit!

How can you not realise that recycling legacy assets is a knock-on effect of not being able to use your new sounds, the stuff your sound team is focusing on, because they won't fit in the game (RAM) with everything else?

I've been vocal enough about this misallocation issue in the past, but I take it as evidence that they're hard at work on their replacements. I'd rather it were fixed, but it's "easy" (although still time consuming) to do that compared with the real improvements that are "due" by now, and it's the new sounds I'd rather they focused on. It's like the whole semi-Premium vs. Premium debate again...

 

[Samus]

You don't know that they're focusing on 'new' sounds though, just assuming they are.

 

[RattijuoppoFIN]

How can you not realise that recycling legacy assets is a knock-on effect of not being able to use your new sounds, the stuff your sound team is focusing on, because they won't fit in the game (RAM) with everything else?

I've been vocal enough about this misallocation issue in the past, but I take it as evidence that they're hard at work on their replacements. I'd rather it were fixed, but it's "easy" (although still time consuming) to do that compared with the real improvements that are "due" by now, and it's the new sounds I'd rather they focused on. It's like the whole semi-Premium vs. Premium debate again...

You still fail to point out why it is ram economical to put a v10 sound from a lambo to another lambo with a V12 when such an sample already exists on a different car. For the last time this is not something related to RAM. Its just PD being lazy to not give a F about the car they are implementing the sounds to. If they did they would i.e. put the v12 sound from the Zonda to the Aventador. Just an example.

 

[Cosbuster]

Someone's putting way too much faith in PD.

 

[Grand Prix]

So PD decided to use more of the PS3's RAM for the graphics, and the sound department had to make do with whatever leftover RAM was available to use?

Understandable, and, typical of PD really.

 

[R5]

So PD decided to use more of the PS3's RAM for the graphics, and the sound department had to make do with whatever leftover RAM was available to use?

Understandable, and, typical of PD really.

Wow, a whole 3D model taking up more than a 50ish second sound sample? Shock horror!

 

[RattijuoppoFIN]

So PD decided to use more of the PS3's RAM for the graphics, and the sound department had to make do with whatever leftover RAM was available to use?

NO! They just put wrong type of engine sounds to cars that have different kind of engines. I.e. a V10 sample to a V12 car. NOTHING to do with RAM. I'll guess the rest is just to low quality samples or not enough R&D.

 

[Grand Prix]

Wow, a whole 3D model taking up more than a 50ish second sound sample? Shock horror!

Let me rephrase that:

PD used so much of the PS3's tiny amount of RAM for rendering car and track models (among other things) that it resulted in the sounds being complete and utter poop.

Better?

 

[R5]

Let me rephrase that:

PD used so much of the PS3's tiny amount of RAM for rendering car and track models (among other things) that it resulted in the sounds being complete and utter poop.

Better?

If you think about it, it's still wrong. I mean, T10 work with a similar RAM and manage fine. This is coming from a GT-fan too…

 

[RattijuoppoFIN]

You are still making all the fuzz on some things that are entirely unrelated.
Wrong samples are not related to low memory.

I am tired of posting regarding this matter so I will stop.
And also I have a feeling that I am trolled.
If not some peeps are amazingly stubborn or there is way too much misinformation.

 

[Grand Prix]

Don't worry, I'm aware of the wrong samples issue, that is a separate issue, nothing to do with the quality of the sounds themselves.

 

[Griffith500]

You don't know that they're focusing on 'new' sounds though, just assuming they are.

And you don't know that they're not. I can assure you that the sound samples being fundamentally the same as GT2 is fact (which no doubt you'll gladly take), and also that the sound engine is among the most advanced in the industry (not that that means anything to you).

Why would they put all that effort into the one but not the other when it's been known since the '80s how to improve the fidelity of hardware (fixed "engine") samplers using better samples, and is the only thing other sound designers typically rely on, because it's so bleeding obvious? Oh wait, it's PD, right? Those most notorious of incompetents.

RattijuoppoFIN, you're consistently misunderstanding my posts, please don't.

And yet more ignorance thrown into the mix, yay. Perhaps I'll just leave you lot to wallow.

 

[Samus]

the sound engine is among the most advanced in the industry

In what sense?

 

[R5]

Right. I'm just gonna say this quickly.


Sorry for my stupid comments to either camps, but I am conflicted to this idea. I don't mind the sounds, but they can be improved. I understand that it is more important to some than others; I also understand why some people get "passionate" about the matter, so again, sorry for the comments. I would like both parties to try see eye-to-eye with each other and maybe understand each other better; sounds can be improved, through the samples or something else. There aren't really many properly valid excuses for them either, after reviewing my previous posts, I was a seriously annoying so and so.

I'm sorry, GTplanetians. Honestly

 

[RattijuoppoFIN]

As a last action I would like to refer to post #1043

Lol!! PD's sound department is just plain pathetic:



Yeah, I can't wait to see an argument against that...

 

[Griffith500]

In what sense?

I'm not going to waste any more of my time. If you're that interested in my opinion (which I doubt), search. I've only described it 10 times or so.

 

[PepeMickey]

No matter how you put it. Wether you think PD has a great sound engine and that they are taking very small steps to something that will reinvent the way sounds are done (Iracing) or you just think that PD are the worst developers ever regarding sound, PD needs to fix their game and they need to do it fast.

Griffith500, I know you see ahead of us and that you see a greater cause but tbt most people here just want better sounds and the fastest/easiest way to achieve that is by using better samples, not better quality but a better representation of how a particular car sounds.

 

[G.T.Ace]

In what sense?

Echo, doppler, speed of sound, wind.
Yes, the sound samples are horrid and some more effects like proper backfire, dirt and brake squealing would be great, but the sound engine is amazing.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

The Kaz interview is up, check the news section guys.

 

[Imari]

“I know there were some rumors that the sound for GT wasn’t recorded with the engine under load. That was actually true until GT4 was produced, but for GT5 all of the sounds that we’ve taken were from cars that were on a dynamometer and placed under load.

Did they then resample all the standard cars for GT5? Or did they continue to use the same, unloaded samples from GT4?

 

[McLaren]

Echo, doppler, speed of sound, wind.
Yes, the sound samples are horrid and some more effects like proper backfire, dirt and brake squealing would be great, but the sound engine is amazing.

I'm amazed anyone is able to focus on any of these sounds over the absolutely disgusting attempt at making the cars themselves sound authentic.

Damn, my Camaro sounds like a Dyson but at least the wind & doppler effects are spot on.

 

[Jav]

Yes, very very advanced sounds...