Give us better sounds - PLEASE !!

[RACECAR]

Isn't that the first attempt though and not the later patch to the sound? Also it seems abit inconclusive in my opinion to compare the sounds from the onboard in the game to fly-bys of the real cars.

Just watched a replay with it in GT5 and listened to the video side-by-side and while its not spot-on, its actually not far off. Listening to it, they somehow managed to to modify the F1 sample they used to try and mimic the shreak. It to some extent has the basic characteristic, but its lacking the meat of that sound (as well as the rasp).

If need be, I can record it and put it up for comparison as after looking around, it seems people have only posted the initial patch of the sound and not the current one.

 

[humpus]

Why does it sound like a different car every time the camera changes?

Because he did a better job in 5 minutes than PD did in 16 years.

This is what a Z4 GT3 sounds like from onboard:


Not like this:


PD's not even trying. Apparently this is their vision for GT. Or should I say their hearing for GT, because everyone else can hear that the current sounds are utter crap.

 

[Cosbuster]

PD's not even trying. Apparently this is their vision for GT. Or should I say their hearing for GT, because everyone else can hear that the current sounds are utter crap.

Well, yeah. Didn't Kaz say this less than a year ago?

My perspective is that the sounds in Gran Turismo are just too real. With the recording method we use, we use a dyno and put the load on, and the sound we produce is just too accurate. I think it would be a good thing to sort of design the sound a little bit, and so that is something I would like to challenge ourselves with in the future.

What I find is that one of our themes with Gran Turismo is to create something that is real; that is what our team is focused on, but that can be an issue sometimes as well. If we see something in front of us, we try to reproduce that very accurately, and that tendency is getting stronger.

But, I think we maybe need to make things sexier sometimes, and I think that is something the Gran Turismo team might need to work on. It could also be because our team is growing in number, which could be one of our barriers to that goal.

We are doomed. Maybe in the next decade something will change.

 

[RACECAR]

How do you accuse people of repeatidly using the "Placeholder" quote as some excuse and then turnaround and bring up the "Too Real" Quote (which has been repeatidly clarified to have been meant something else then it actually did) to seemingly justify the sounds will not change?

 

[Cosbuster]

How do you accuse people of repeatidly using the "Placeholder" quote as some excuse and then turnaround and bring up the "Too Real" Quote (which has been repeatidly clarified to have been meant something else then it actually did) to seemingly justify the sounds will not change?

Actually, it's only one of the reasons why I believe we won't be getting proper sounds and not the most important one but I always find this quote funny. Of course, I'd be really happy to be proven wrong but I don't really see it happening.

 

[Tenacious D]

Just to reiterate, after listening to the Race Room videos, I now think all games sound like crap. So you're all doomed, you just don't know it yet.

 

[Griffith500]

Well, yeah. Didn't Kaz say this less than a year ago?



We are doomed. Maybe in the next decade something will change.

He also said this before GT5 was released:
http://www.pushsquare.com/news/2009/10/yamauchi_gran_turismo_5_looks_better_than_reality

It should be interesting to see what weather, time change, better textures and other stuff like wind, smoke, skidmarks etc., as counters to that "too perfect" appearance Prologue had, might mean in the context of sound, because there are many analogues between the two areas.

 

[humpus]

Just to reiterate, after listening to the Race Room videos, I now think all games sound like crap. So you're all doomed, you just don't know it yet.

Unfortunately, the GT series has the crappiest sound of them all. Or can you think of any other decent selling racing game with worse sounds than GT5? I for one can't.

 

[wowbaggerBR]

Just to reiterate, after listening to the Race Room videos, I now think all games sound like crap. So you're all doomed, you just don't know it yet.

Seriously? are you putting in the same level Race Room and GT5 regarding the sounds?

 

[Griffith500]

Seriously? You are putting in the same level Race Room and GT5 regarding the sounds?

I think you just made that up yourself.

 

[RACECAR]

I kinda get the feeling there was a joke made and someone really missed it.

Maybe I'm interpreting it wrong.

 

[wowbaggerBR]

I kinda get the feeling there was a joke made and someone really missed it.

Maybe I'm interpreting it wrong.

Hum, if that was the case, i take back what i said. English is not my primary language, so... sorry.

But, TenaciousD always defends PD and GT5 in his posts, even in threads related to wishes of many other players. Because of that i may have misunderstood the joke and thought he was, once again, praising another shortcoming of GT series.

 

[PAPPACLART]

I have now officially lost all hope of any drastic improvements.

 

[tpark103]

just to reiterate, after listening to the race room videos, i now think all games sound like crap. So you're all doomed, you just don't know it yet.

+1

Unfortunately, the GT series has the crappiest sound of them all. Or can you think of any other decent selling racing game with worse sounds than GT5? I for one can't.

That like saying Arizona's heat is better than Miami's heat because there's no humidity. The fact is its still hot and the the fact remains that the sounds are not perfect in any game.

I get great playback from my surround so a satisfying driving experience is most important to me. I have other issues that should be addressed in different forums however, sound is mediocre as far they go.

 

[Tenacious D]

Hum, if that was the case, i take back what i said. English is not my primary language, so... sorry.

But, TenaciousD always defends PD and GT5 in his posts

Guilty. But honestly, I prefer Gran Turismo over any other game, given a choice, and Polyphony Digital, a wonderful extended family, and Kazunori, a true visionary who was instrumental in saving the sports car market in the late 90s, and as a consequence, the vapid race car movie.

But what I should have said is "all other racing games sound like crap." And my pun was based on this:

We are doomed.

 

[diegorborges]

We are doomed.

 

[Imari]

Kazunori, a true visionary who was instrumental in saving the sports car market in the late 90s

What? I've never heard anything about him saving the sports car market, or it needing to be saved.

 

[BURIAL]

Guilty. But honestly, I prefer Gran Turismo over any other game, given a choice

I take it you've never tried iRacing? the racing in Gran Turismo is a joke in comparison, horrible online community, impossible to find equal spec races, contact on every turn, etc etc the only thing Gran Turismo excels in is the detail of the car models, that's about it.

 

[RACECAR]

I take it you've never tried iRacing? the racing in Gran Turismo is a joke in comparison, horrible online community, impossible to find equal spec races, contact on every turn, etc etc the only thing Gran Turismo excels in is the detail of the car models, that's about it.

That's pretty much every racing game. Even iRacing has its fair share of Morons.

 

[Tenacious D]

I take it you've never tried iRacing?

You mean iRenting? The game that keeps on costing?

Look, I've discussed this a LOT on these boards. Forza, PC sims... whatever racer, all are admirable. They don't offer what Gran Turismo does. Seing as I'm mostly dead, this is the best response I can offer right now, but I'll be bach.

 

[Imari]

You mean iRenting? The game that keeps on costing?

Good one. Bring up the cost to deflect from the actual argument. Make sure you don't actually answer his concerns or anything.

 

[Cosbuster]

What? I've never heard anything about him saving the sports car market, or it needing to be saved.

Hmmm, maybe he replaced 90s sports cars with placeholders to get people excited about them?

 

[humpus]

That like saying Arizona's heat is better than Miami's heat because there's no humidity. The fact is its still hot and the the fact remains that the sounds are not perfect in any game..

That doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
Once again, I dare you to find a decent selling racing game with worse engine sounds.

 

[Eks]

removed

 

[Griffith500]

Good one. Bring up the cost to deflect from the actual argument. Make sure you don't actually answer his concerns or anything.

The cost must be valid since you like to bring it up about GT6.

iRacing is fundamentally different due to the subscription and online-only basis; despite that, I've had plenty of encounters with morons online myself. I think what people like about it is the impression of "properness" it gives, and I guess that's actually where some of the morons come from.

When that falls down, I can see why some people will be disappointed with the money they've handed over. It's also pretty strange that after burying hundreds of your hard earned into the game, once you stop the subscription, you can't get at any of it any more. Sure, yeah, it's a "service", but it still sucks hard. If publishers have their way, this is exactly what will happen to all games - they'll have to step up to the responsibility that implies, though, first.

But I won't speak ill of iRacing, being a Papyrus fanboy (they're legally extinct now, I'm allowed).


@ Humpus: define "decent selling", and we'll see what falls out (only out of curiosity, mind you). There's not really any "finding" to do, these things are catalogued. There's also a massive hole in your "challenge" that I'll attempt to ignore for now. What I expect will happen is that an ever increasing list of qualifiers will be needed, to the point of sheer subjectivity (never mind the expected arbitrariness of any chosen "decent selling" threshold).

 

[humpus]

@ Humpus: define "decent selling", and we'll see what falls out (only out of curiosity, mind you). There's not really any "finding" to do, these things are catalogued. There's also a massive hole in your "challenge" that I'll attempt to ignore for now. What I expect will happen is that an ever increasing list of qualifiers will be needed, to the point of sheer subjectivity (never mind the expected arbitrariness of any chosen "decent selling" threshold).

Well if I don't put 'decent selling' in there, people will for example start listing indie games that no one knows or games from the 1980's.

I know there are many variables to consider when asking a question like that (age of the game, development budget, number of people in the sound department, recording method of the sound, rendering method of the sound, emphasis on sound by the developers themselves, platform that the game is released on, audience towards which the game is aimed at, number of copies solds, etc) but when you use something called common sense you can filter most of these issues out of the equation.

Or you can continue to nitpick about every possible factor that I might have missed or extra holes that I might have created by elaborating on the issue.

For example: what does 'better' sounds mean? More realistic? More grunt? Louder? More diverse, with gearbox whine etc included? I think you can see where I'm getting at. Or perhaps we can quantify the number of posts on other games' fora about sound complaints and statistically compare those numbers to each other, if that is more objective for you.

Now, for the subjective part, I'll list some candidates:
NFS, rFactor, Live for Speed, the Forza series, the F1 series, the Project Gotham Racing series, GTR, Real Racing, ... Feel free to add more. In my opinion (and I'm curious about other members) these games all perform better in the engine sound department than GT5 and - how it looks for now - GT6.

 

[Griffith500]

Well if I don't put 'decent selling' in there, people will for example start listing indie games that no one knows or games from the 1980's.

I know there are many variables to consider when asking a question like that (age of the game, development budget, number of people in the sound department, recording method of the sound, rendering method of the sound, emphasis on sound by the developers themselves, platform that the game is released on, audience towards which the game is aimed at, number of copies solds, etc) but when you use something called common sense you can filter most of these issues out of the equation.

Or you can continue to nitpick about every possible factor that I might have missed or extra holes that I might have created by elaborating on the issue.

For example: what does 'better' sounds mean? More realistic? More grunt? Louder? More diverse, with gearbox whine etc included? I think you can see where I'm getting at.

Now, I'll list some candidates:
NFS, rFactor, Live for Speed, the Forza series, the F1 series, the Project Gotham Racing series, GTR, Real Racing, ... Feel free to add more. In my opinion (and I'm curious about other members) these games all perform better in the engine sound department than GT5 and - how it looks for now - GT6.

I think you covered most of it, actually. Just as long as you're aware of the fool's errand you were expecting someone else to undertake. We've discussed most of that before, and it really does come down to personal taste in a lot of cases.

I would agree that GT5's samples and depth of effects are objectively lacking, but everything else is top-notch. With new samples, or at least new engine sound sources in the game, the complete package should really shine (especially if the new system is as ... flexible as I suspect it will be). Superficially, though, it's those samples that dominate.

I hope they have a contingency plan for not being able to get the new sounds into GT6, but I'm not letting my expectations occupy the same region as my hopes.

 

[humpus]

It's just such a shame. The graphics are beautiful, the handling is fun, online will hopefully be fixed, but the sounds (and AI for that matter) remain utter crap. The contrast is just too big between the good and the bad of GT. How can they be so good at one thing and so bad at something else?

I also hope the sounds will be fixable in their new flexible ecosystem, but just like you I'm not getting my hopes up. I've always been a huge fan of the GT series, but GT6 might be the first game I'll ever skip. Not because I suspect it to be a bad game, just because it could have been so much better.

 

[Griffith500]

I think it's a matter of distribution of development effort and of their usual "ground-up" approach to most things (they seem to re-evaluate things on new hardware - that might be partially why old features don't reappear sometimes). I think, though, that means the stuff that isn't important (i.e. not-graphics), or is hard to master (AI etc.), takes longer to be iterated upon.

If we say that the graphics are up to version 5 in GT5, then the sound is only version 2.5 (well, the sound engine is on v.5, but the samples etc. are still on v.2). Simply put, the graphics have been iterated and refined more than anything else in the game. From the (admittedly brief) way Kaz has described it, their new sound system is genuinely a completely new approach that hasn't been done before. Depending on how that turns out, it might make sense as to why it took so long.

The question will remain, certainly for GT5 (we're still waiting with GT6), as to why they didn't prop up the current sounds to something less jarring in the mean time. It's possible they, like us, were hoping all along that the new sounds will finally be realisable in "the next game".

 

[BURIAL]

You mean iRenting? The game that keeps on costing?

ever hear the phrase "you get what you pay for"? yeah it kind of holds true in most cases