Give us better sounds - PLEASE !!

[Tenacious D]

Good one. Bring up the cost to deflect from the actual argument. Make sure you don't actually answer his concerns or anything.

What! I haven't played it because even if I could afford it, which right now I can't - have to borrow money to be able to afford my dad's house, I don't see any point to downloading a demo of a game I won't play.

Now I have watched a few YouTubes, and the sounds are okay. They don't thrill me, I don't remember them sounding outstanding the way Race Room's samples do, so... whatever. Typical car sounds to me. To be precise, NO game has ever made me sit up and take notice of the car sounds except Race Room, and that still took me a few listens to really begin to feel the love.

Satisfied?

ever hear the phrase "you get what you pay for"? yeah it kind of holds true in most cases

Ever hear of the term "cost effective options"? This is even more apropos. Besides, read the above for my attitude towards car sounds in racing games. Yes, this is my "feelings" on the subject, but your feelings don't particularly have any relevance when I'm playing a game. 'Cause I do play games for me, not other folk...

Well, one more thing. PC sims are pretty much platforms for people to get involve in online racing, clubs and leagues, which I just don't have time for. The single player game is nice but rather sterile compared to games like Gran Turismo and Forza, which I own. And which combined, already give me as much racing life as all other sims combined. Again, my "feelings," but again, my feelings matter more to me than some other guy's out in the netverse. Hopefully this is self-evident.

 

[Chippy569]

Race Room (ie simbin) is actually a really interesting studio. All the sounds were done by one guy. I did a great interview with him and he gave a lot of great responses about how their system works and how he records and produces the sound. Really fascinating and I totally recommend reading it. I think they (he?) did tremendous work on the environmental side - you really get a feel of where the car is and what's surrounding it.

 

[Felix]

Race Room (ie simbin) is actually a really interesting studio. All the sounds were done by one guy. I did a great interview with him and he gave a lot of great responses about how their system works and how he records and produces the sound. Really fascinating and I totally recommend reading it. I think they (he?) did tremendous work on the environmental side - you really get a feel of where the car is and what's surrounding it.

I have a few of these guys earlier games on my PC and they are some of the best racing games I have ever played.

I enjoyed the interview you did and made me realise there is another option on my PC for racing

 

[Imari]

The cost must be valid since you like to bring it up about GT6.

Cost is valid when discussing things like which game to buy. It's not when talking about one game as an example of features that are implemented well and could be transferred to GT.

The conversation wasn't even about one or the other, it was asking TenD whether he had experienced what this other game offered. Instead of responding to the question, he went for the cheap shot against a game he's never played.

What! I haven't played it

And this was the right response.


So Ten, now you can explain how Kaz saved the sports car industry in the '90s.

...Kazunori, a true visionary who was instrumental in saving the sports car market in the late 90s...

 

[machschnel]

So Ten, now you can explain how Kaz saved the sports car industry in the '90s.

This is going to be very interesting

 

[wowbaggerBR]

This is going to be very interesting

Yeah, I mean, where Ferrari, Porsche (who never was in the game), Corvettes, Paganis, Lamborghinis and so on would be if was not Kaz?

 

[Tenacious D]

I have a Car & Driver article about Gran Turismo which discussed this in part, but it's buried in a moving box right now. The online article is eluding me, so I'll present you with info snips from a couple of sources.

SPORTS-CAR MARKET DYING AS PRICES SOAR, TASTES CHANGE

Mazda RX-8

And car manufacturers have even seized on racing videogames as direct marketing tools.
Carmakers look to video games for new routes to market

If you disagree, that's fine, but this was discussed in car circles in the '90s and 2000s, because many of us were afraid that the market would be reduced to a handful of niche cars struggling to survive, if any. Even the Mustang was strongly rumored to be killed off by Ford in this time. To quote the first article,

'The (sports car) segment is dead,' said Chris Cedergren, vice president of AutoPacific, a consulting firm in Santa Ana, Calif.

 

[Imari]

I have a Car & Driver article about Gran Turismo which discussed this in part, but it's buried in a moving box right now. The online article is eluding me, so I'll present you with info snips from a couple of sources.

SPORTS-CAR MARKET DYING AS PRICES SOAR, TASTES CHANGE

Mazda RX-8

And car manufacturers have even seized on racing videogames as direct marketing tools.
Carmakers look to video games for new routes to market

If you disagree, that's fine, but this was discussed in car circles in the '90s and 2000s, because many of us were afraid that the market would be reduced to a handful of niche cars struggling to survive, if any. Even the Mustang was strongly rumored to be killed off by Ford in this time. To quote the first article,

Interesting.

Firstly, those articles describe a specifically a US phenomenon. Most people who aren't from the US assume (fairly rightly) that if you say "the sports car market was saved", that you mean the world sports car market.

Anyway, I assume you mean to say "the sports car market in the US was saved".

Secondly, I still think instrumental is a bit of a strong word there. It generally means that it wouldn't have happened without him. Would Japanese car makers have figured out that there was still a good market in the US for sports cars? Possibly. It's a big market to be stepping out of, especially when small, cheap sports cars like the Miata have always sold well.

To quote from your second article:

As popular interest in import tuning and performance cars resurged in the late-1990s, thanks in part to various popular cultural influences such as the Sony PlayStation video game Gran Turismo, Japanese automakers waded back into the performance and sports car market in the US.

Basically, part of the resurgence of performance cars can be attributed to cultural factors, and one of those was Gran Turismo. A part of a part. Instrumental? Not on that information, no.

 

[JTB10000]

What really needs to be done during the next interview with Kaz is he needs to be told that all of the GT fans were highly disappointed with the sounds in GT5 because of their inaccuracy, and see what happens from there.

 

[wowbaggerBR]

I have a Car & Driver article about Gran Turismo which discussed this in part, but it's buried in a moving box right now. The online article is eluding me, so I'll present you with info snips from a couple of sources.

SPORTS-CAR MARKET DYING AS PRICES SOAR, TASTES CHANGE

Mazda RX-8

And car manufacturers have even seized on racing videogames as direct marketing tools.
Carmakers look to video games for new routes to market

If you disagree, that's fine, but this was discussed in car circles in the '90s and 2000s, because many of us were afraid that the market would be reduced to a handful of niche cars struggling to survive, if any. Even the Mustang was strongly rumored to be killed off by Ford in this time. To quote the first article,

Riiiiight, ok then.

 

[Tenacious D]

Basically, part of the resurgence of performance cars can be attributed to cultural factors, and one of those was Gran Turismo. A part of a part. Instrumental? Not on that information, no.

Well, this is true that Europe and Asia, while flagging in sports car sales themselves, were still sporty markets where Skylines and Beemers would sell. But a huge car market like America was a problem for everyone, as I mentioned, for all makers including the domestics. Even the Mustang was being considered for the chopping block, and a number of models ceased to exist, such as our Camaro and the Supra. The Skyline was never even considered for our dying market.

I'm really only aware of two factors from that time period which could be have an impact. As you say, the Miata, and Gran Turismo, a game which featured a number of unfamiliar to unknown Japanese sports cars for the most part, since at that time Kazunori was just some video game maker for some toy console. And I'm unaware of anyone calling the Miata the savior of the sports car market.

Now I will have to say that you're showing some cheek, after making posts in which you'll throw things out like "Many racing teams use video games to set up their cars." And I'll go to the trouble and see if I can Google something up because I like collecting knowledge after all, but come up empty save for some scant mention of something called rFactor Pro, which I pointed out is a precision simulator comissioned by a racing team, possibly Red Bull, and not a video game. Much like iRacing, a "game" perhaps but which is entirely a platform used by online racers from pros to money flinging enthusiasts, but strictly a client for online groups to use in organizing racing leagues or keeping skills honed between real life racing seasons.

But it does seem like people can throw down anything negative about Gran Turismo and its makers without any justification, and anything positive has to have resource footnotes. So, I would love to hear from you guys in extensive detail how the U.S. sports car market managed to resurrect itself from near death.

And in the meantime, my enthusiast relative reminded me how much time I'm wasting on silly board politics, so from now on, anything the least bit definite from me will include in bold text, In my opinion. I assume I'm still permitted one around here, anyhow...

 

[Imari]

But it does seem like people can throw down anything negative about Gran Turismo and its makers without any justification, and anything positive has to have resource footnotes. So, I would love to hear from you guys in extensive detail how the U.S. sports car market managed to resurrect itself from near death.

And in the meantime, my enthusiast relative reminded me how much time I'm wasting on silly board politics, so from now on, anything the least bit definite from me will include in bold text, In my opinion. I assume I'm still permitted one around here, anyhow...

I have no need or interest in debating why and how the US car market resurrected itself. I've never even set foot on the continent. I'm purely talking about Kaz.

Look, Kaz has done great things, but attributing the rescuing of entire continents worth of car sales is a bridge too far. Has he not done enough great stuff that you need to exaggerate like this?

And don't ask me about whether you're allowed an opinion. But when you present stuff as facts (Kaz was instrumental in saving the sports car market) I don't think it's unreasonable for others to question where those facts come from. For their own education if nothing else. It's not like the rules are different for you or anything.

 

[Johnnypenso]

GT5 was a different kind of marketing tool utilized by car companies to promote their product and nothing more. Did it make some contribution? Yes, as did the world economy, increasing mobility of capital, increasing disposable income, ads in time magazine, billboards, television, Top Gear, factory tours and a hundred other methods of marketing. To say it revived the sports car industry is ridiculous hyperbole.

 

[wowbaggerBR]

But it does seem like people can throw down anything negative about Gran Turismo and its makers without any justification, and anything positive has to have resource footnotes. So, I would love to hear from you guys in extensive detail how the U.S. sports car market managed to resurrect itself from near death.

And in the meantime, my enthusiast relative reminded me how much time I'm wasting on silly board politics, so from now on, anything the least bit definite from me will include in bold text, In my opinion. I assume I'm still permitted one around here, anyhow...

Without justification?

Let's see. This thread is about sounds. Although you and other members don't give that much attention to details, like sounds, better models and inside view, others do. So, how can this rant be without justification? All of us play the game and hear the sounds of real cars to know the difference and the utter crap that GT sounds.

Like Imari pointed out, Kazunori did great things, he is the creator of a entire genre to home console and GT, as far as I concern, is one of the must have games of the last 20 years. But I want it better and I'm tired of half done job and PD surviving with the hype only.

I don't know that much about the US car market, but seems to me that saying that this market got so close to near death another extrapolation, just like went out saying that Kazunori is the Steve Jobs of sports car industry. Happens that SUVs took a lot of the consumers of american muscle cars/sports cars. The same thing happened in England when the first generation of hot hatchbacks came.

 

[Cosbuster]

I'm surprised the sounds haven't caused any friction with car manufactures, or at least none that we're aware of. I can't imagine them being too happy with how their cars are being portrayed in the sound department, assuming there is somebody who actually tries out the final product to see how their cars are looking.

I remember Lucas describing how a test driver from KTM tried out the Xbow and was quite pleased with the physics but no mention of his impressions of the sounds. You'd think he'd say something or maybe carry a weird expression

 

[MattZR1]

What sound was recycled for the sound of the X-bow?

 

[Griffith500]

I'm surprised the sounds haven't caused any friction with car manufactures, or at least none that we're aware of. I can't imagine them being too happy with how their cars are being portrayed in the sound department, assuming there is somebody who actually tries out the final product to see how their cars are looking.

I remember Lucas describing how a test driver from KTM tried out the Xbow and was quite pleased with the physics but no mention of his impressions of the sounds. You'd think he'd say something or maybe carry a weird expression

It is strange. But then, if anybody outside PD is privy to the new sound system, it'd be the car manufacturers. They've been working with at least Audi and Yamaha on that aspect since before GT5.

The reason the guy didn't say anything about the sounds might be because he wasn't "allowed", or because he knew first-hand they were placeholder material

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I have no need or interest in debating why and how the US car market resurrected itself. I've never even set foot on the continent. I'm purely talking about Kaz.

Look, Kaz has done great things, but attributing the rescuing of entire continents worth of car sales is a bridge too far. Has he not done enough great stuff that you need to exaggerate like this?

And don't ask me about whether you're allowed an opinion. But when you present stuff as facts (Kaz was instrumental in saving the sports car market) I don't think it's unreasonable for others to question where those facts come from. For their own education if nothing else. It's not like the rules are different for you or anything.

Fish stories my good friend, that is what Tenacious is good at, you should have seen the catfish he caught last week. He tells me it ate three children whole, lucky he caught it and cut them free.

 

[phil_75]

Even Tiff agrees https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpWrZEKeuSE&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

[TheStreetKing]

I know I going to get gripe for this but PD needs to go the route Turn10 did and get the cars on the dyno/real world open sound there is no excuse for PD not get it done

 

[Squach240]

?

And it's not even done by what you'd call a professional.

Sauber did have a point.

That's one car. More curious on how long it took the modder to produce that kind of work.

Now do a individually different sound file, 1,200 more times.

 

[Cosbuster]

Now do a individually different sound file, 1,200 more times.

I'm not sure you really have to do that. You can start by making a proper v8, v10, v12 etc. Once you have a dozen or so proper engines down, I would think you can eliminate a huge chunk of the work without having to individualy record and tweak all cars. Even if many cars aren't 100% accurate, I don't think it would matter that much if the samples are good and the engines match.

 

[theofilosz]

I'm not sure you really have to do that. You can start by making a proper v8, v10, v12 etc. Once you have a dozen or so proper engines down, I would think you can eliminate a huge chunk of the work without having to individualy record and tweak all cars. Even if many cars aren't 100% accurate, I don't think it would matter that much if the samples are good and the engines match.

Exactly, I've said this many times! If they did just a few generic engine samples 4inline,V6 , V8, V12 they could cover the majority of the cars in the game currently. After that they could do 1 car after another where it is critically needed or in new modellings, but even though this sounds so logical, it will not be the first time PD will defy logic.

 

[Grand Prix]

I'm not sure you really have to do that. You can start by making a proper v8, v10, v12 etc. Once you have a dozen or so proper engines down, I would think you can eliminate a huge chunk of the work without having to individualy record and tweak all cars. Even if many cars aren't 100% accurate, I don't think it would matter that much if the samples are good and the engines match.

Exactly, I've said this many times! If they did just a few generic engine samples 4inline,V6 , V8, V12 they could cover the majority of the cars in the game currently. After that they could do 1 car after another where it is critically needed or in new modellings, but even though this sounds so logical, it will not be the first time PD will defy logic.

Be careful what you wish for... PD would probably just give all V12s the same sample, but it would be the sample the 330 P4 currently has...

PD has done this already anyway, I remember in GT2 where the Plymouth GTX, Vector W8, and Toyota GT-One all had the exact same hornet's nest sound, when you fitted racing exhaust on the former two cars. There are also lots of instances in GT5 with cars sharing samples that they shouldn't be sharing.

 

[Ranman20]

This is the Mercedes sauber C9 in real life.


<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQVWvNIzVS">YouTube Link</a>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQVWvNIzVSc&feature=youtube_gdata_player

I don't get why PD can't just copy and pace on YouTube. In GT5 the sauber sounds horrible and handles horrible.

 

[Chippy569]

This is the Mercedes sauber C9 in real life.


<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQVWvNIzVS">YouTube Link</a>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQVWvNIzVSc&feature=youtube_gdata_player

I don't get why PD can't just copy and pace on YouTube. In GT5 the sauber sounds horrible and handles horrible.

Because you can't copy and paste a linear sound. What you've effectively said is "i don't get why PD can't just take a picture of the car and put it on the screen." It's a wee bit more complicated than just hitting "play" on a video.

Also, that sounds like a crappy gopro video; clipping and no high end fidelity and some weird aliasing. Neat clip otherwise though, the downshifts in particular sound beefy.

 

[Ranman20]

That's how group C cars sound while in the cockpit. And really go pro sounds !? Go pro HD capturing cameras came out in 2011. That video came out in 2009. And I guarantee if you look up a 1990s video of onboard of the sauber C9 you'll hear the same noise you hear on the video above.

 

[Chippy569]

That's how group C cars sound while in the cockpit. And really go pro sounds !? Go pro HD capturing cameras came out in 2011. That video came out in 2009. And I guarantee if you look up a 1990s video of onboard of the sauber C9 you'll hear the same noise you hear on the video above.

yeah, what i'm saying is it's a really low-fidelity recording. GT should set the bar higher.

Also, gopro non-HD cameras came out in 2007. I had three of them.

 

[RACECAR]

This is the Mercedes sauber C9 in real life.

Fixed. I imagine a video clip of this car from the same year would actually sound worse.

 

[DSUjoeDirte9]

Fixed. I imagine a video clip of this car from the same year would actually sound worse.

Wow the sauber sounds kinda.....awesome. GT5 makes it sound really high pitched and annoying. If this car has more of that deep sound and is premium is gt6, then it will easily make my top 5 for lmp/group c cars. Always liked the looks....didn't like the handling in gt4... and didn't like the sound/not premium in gt5.


^ i dont drive standards....period