Give us better sounds - PLEASE !!
- Thread starter steamcat
- 4,667 comments
- 352,144 views
- 1,252
- Gottcha
I don't know if PD just has issues trying to figure out how to process in-game sounds, or what, but they OBVIOUSLY know what a car is supposed to sound like (pre-recorded audio for trailers), and that's what seems to bother me the most. The SLS in the new trailer sounds fantastic, but obviously is pre-recorded.
Hard to say if they will pull anything off for GT6, here's to hoping they figure out this "breakthrough".
Hard to say if they will pull anything off for GT6, here's to hoping they figure out this "breakthrough".
- 1,130
- Mexico City
- ppmike921
- MikeB0ssMan
Unfortunately, Fantastic =/= Realistic, This is the worst part of PD's dubbed trailers, they never use the correct sample for the car that is appearing on screen, sometimes, the sample doesn't even match what the car is doing. It's pretty laughable that PD can't even get their trailers right.
In the Bathurst trailer in particular, 3 completely different cars have the exact same sample...
- 1,274
- Denver,Miami,Vegas
- terryparker15
Im talking game play videos guys. I'm not talking overdubbed trailers. The Merc sounds beastly. I'll see if I can find a video to link.... Edit -- I stand correct. Since posting this I've learned (without confirmation) the Bathurst driving videos I've been admiring with the SLS GT3 car, are (according to a user in here) using the same sounds from a GT5 car so never mind.
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- 2,822
- Espoo
- GTP_Raitzi
They should get more pressure from press for faking sounds. Most of gaming media is clueless however. Garnett it is all on you buddy!
- 616
Yes, I think so too.
Some of the sounds are practically AMAZING, really... but it's frustrating to see that even on a trailer some of the sounds are in the wrong place.
Also, I was thinking about the accuracy of the sound in the replays, and the sound from various YouTube videos.
Some people say that it's not the same point of view, which is true most of the time, but it doesn't suppose that we are watching a replay too, filmed on camera, no matter what kind of camera, but a camera at the end, and the sound should be at least near to the "sample" we can get recording a video from that stuff?
I don't know, I had that thought for a while.
- 3,221
- Maldives
- zedextreme8177
Take a listen to that. While the sound itself isn't all that menacing just like most of GT's samples, I'd say they have pretty much nailed the shifting sounds, as not all the gearshifts are the same. It kinda makes the whole car sound more natural and realistic IMO. Food for thought?
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
It's pretty sad to see games like GTA that aren't primarily about cars. have any single element of the car portion of the game better than GT. Those shift sounds are much more realistic than anything in GT which basically has no shifting sound at all on most, if not all cars. GT should make GTA sound like an arcade game and it's the other way around
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- 8,722
Grand Theft Auto. It pretty much is all about the cars, at least it should be. It'd be nice if more of Rockstar remembered this.
By the way, what is a "shift sound"? The gear changes in GTA V really irritated me at first (they're not that varied), now I've learned to ignore them.
This is one of those "impression" / "experience" things rather than anything actually "realistic". I mean, it's fine for what it is (there are some nice sounding cars), but I would really hate it if this was what PD presented us with.
That said, GT5 already has a similarly silly wobble (assuming that's what "shifts" are supposed to sound like), just in the replays only. It's an effect, though, as an overlay to the physics. In GTA, the physics are not really the primary concern in quite the same way, so there may be more pushing and pulling between the two systems (audio and physics), or maybe the audio dominates the physics, much like the recent Burnout game (in fact I notice GTA V has the same issue with not being able to hold a constant rpm that Chippy explained, so it's probably using granularly sampled ramps and the physics is playing second fiddle - if my ears are right).
For a game like GT, it should all be done in the physics, like iRacing - but nobody else is doing that yet, for some reason.
By the way, what is a "shift sound"? The gear changes in GTA V really irritated me at first (they're not that varied), now I've learned to ignore them.
This is one of those "impression" / "experience" things rather than anything actually "realistic". I mean, it's fine for what it is (there are some nice sounding cars), but I would really hate it if this was what PD presented us with.
That said, GT5 already has a similarly silly wobble (assuming that's what "shifts" are supposed to sound like), just in the replays only. It's an effect, though, as an overlay to the physics. In GTA, the physics are not really the primary concern in quite the same way, so there may be more pushing and pulling between the two systems (audio and physics), or maybe the audio dominates the physics, much like the recent Burnout game (in fact I notice GTA V has the same issue with not being able to hold a constant rpm that Chippy explained, so it's probably using granularly sampled ramps and the physics is playing second fiddle - if my ears are right).
For a game like GT, it should all be done in the physics, like iRacing - but nobody else is doing that yet, for some reason.
- 301
- Washington
- Chippy569
- Chippy569
i haven't played GTA5 yet so I can't comment on its sounds, but I hear they're supposedly some of the best car sounds in a non-racing game. That's quite compelling, I think. Maybe I should start pulling up youtube videos.
Me personally, I agree with Griffith that the more things that can be done in physics that effect audio, the better. Things that exist superficially outside of physics that shouldn't (for example, visual-only body roll or audio events that aren't tied to anything in physics) might make the game look better in previews, or watching your friend play the game, but they don't improve the experience of playing the game. I had this problem with the most recent NFS:MW title - if I watched a friend playing it, I thought it looked and sounded awesome. But as soon as I took the controller, meehhhhhhhh.
Me personally, I agree with Griffith that the more things that can be done in physics that effect audio, the better. Things that exist superficially outside of physics that shouldn't (for example, visual-only body roll or audio events that aren't tied to anything in physics) might make the game look better in previews, or watching your friend play the game, but they don't improve the experience of playing the game. I had this problem with the most recent NFS:MW title - if I watched a friend playing it, I thought it looked and sounded awesome. But as soon as I took the controller, meehhhhhhhh.
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
It's a chicken or egg thing. At the moment we have neither the sounds nor the physics that creates the sounds. I think most of us would be happy with, "We are giving you the sounds now, the physics associated with those sounds will come later, by this date or this version of the game" Yes it would be great to have both, but I believe most GT'ers would be happy with the sounds first, and the knowledge that the physics are following. Breaking things into elemental parts and tackling them in a logical order required less resources in the short term, than deciding to rework the physics and sounds concurrently. Yes, I'd like it if they did that, but with PD it's baby steps.
- 2,012
In other news, PD is so ahead that they fooled us and now have the best representations of F1 engines.
http://jalopnik.com/which-of-the-new-f1-turbo-engines-sound-the-best-1447663971
http://jalopnik.com/which-of-the-new-f1-turbo-engines-sound-the-best-1447663971
- 8,722
With the example I gave, iRacing, the physics is the sound. It's not chicken and egg: the physics dictate the sounds for everything in the real world, and that's how it should be approached (although implementations will have to be compromised in favour of practicality) in games, too - just as it is for graphics.
Sound recorded from the isolated control booths, no doubt. They're all uneven firing, as expected, so they won't scream despite the single turbo (there will be a "screamy" component to it, that could be accentuated, though). But they will still be loud and impressive in person, and that uneven firing will give a real depth and grunt to the sounds, much like the revamped 5.2 V10 did over the original 5.0 in the Gallardo.
It seems Honda's Indy engines were a good starting point after all:
Notice how much duller the twin turbo Chevy sounds, since it lacks that "screamy" component present with the single turbo Honda.
Also, try to imagine 15 000 rpm versions of these 12 000 rpm sounds.
It's subtle changes like these that I want to see represented with tuning in games.
- 301
- Washington
- Chippy569
- Chippy569
It's subtle changes like these that I want to see represented with tuning in games.
I agree fullheartedly. Unfortunately, subtlety = authoring time, which = $$$, and of the entire population of people that would play, maybe 4 would actually notice, and 2 would actually care. Such is the nature of audio work.
- 8,722
That's true, but is also where procedural techniques might help out. I.e. automated tweaks based on changes made to the engine by the player. Granted, that's a lot of work as well to get going, but the variation it can potentially create is probably better value.
I think the major stumbling point is experience and expertise on that front, so there'll be a lot of experimenting before anything concrete would fall out of it. But I think it has to happen sometime, and the sooner studios get to tinkering in the background with it, the sooner their understanding will reach a point that they can create viable systems to put in "products".
These games are getting bigger and bigger, so there really is no time like the present!
Also, I think when people realise that these systems can do more than just "subtle", their merits will really start to shine. There's nothing stopping you from making some wacky exhaust config for these V6s to get something completely different, just the same as simply tweaking runner lengths to get more subtle changes in sound (and performance, which is easily done following a simple "interference" model) - or anything in between.
- 301
- Washington
- Chippy569
- Chippy569
I wish that were true, but it just doesn't work that way. Automated processes that work for one car fall apart on another. Believe me, we've tried! We worked really hard to attempt to modularize and streamline our process this time around but invariably it comes down to every car needing to be hand-tweaked. Adding variations also means increasing playtesting requirements, too, which is another step full of $$.
- 8,722
My experience says otherwise; such systems are possible for what I described. Nick Wiswell has alluded to work in that area, too - it's possible he doesn't know that, but I doubt it.
I wont downplay the testing aspect, but that's a necessity anyway when you produce anything new. This is fundamentally a creative space, but people are free to keep doing the same things if they so wish.
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
Even though my computer isn't quite up to speed I downloaded the free demo and it is indeed just as awesome sound wise as these clips would indicate. In spite of the crappy graphics due to my equipment I ran many laps around Hockenheim and enjoyed it nonetheless because of that sweet music from the engine and drivetrain!!
Dmarc_Atl
(Banned)
- 1,463
Not really.The way you compared the 2 was completely different from what he wrote, though I completely understood what you meant.I'll reiterate what I ( think I ) said in that thread.Games with cars have had cars with better sounds than GT games since day one imo.Its nothing new.In reply to zedextreme8177,compared to Midnight Club LA,R* have really improved their sounds.I think Midnight Club LA had the worst car sounds in a game.
- 10,956
- Canada
- 1,130
- Mexico City
- ppmike921
- MikeB0ssMan
no no no, absolutely not.do you realize that this is what makes gran turismo stand out from the rest?
Awful AI and crappy sounds also make GT stand out from the rest, should it stay that way then, hell no. I know the point is to drive "everyday" cars but in GT it gets to a point where is just ridiculous. If there's a car that I wouldn't want to drive in real life, why the hell would I want to do it in GT?
- 301
- Washington
- Chippy569
- Chippy569
That is the appeal of video game racing, though. I would never want to race a Reliant Robin in real life (although that does exist, apparently) but in the safety of my living room, I would absolutely adore chucking one around a go-kart track or something.
There is something to be said about the painfulness of slow cars on huuuuge tracks, but driving them on smaller tracks has a lot of appeal. I really hope that some video game will come out with an autocross-esque sized track to really get the most fun out of slower cars.
- 4,035
- Gothenburg
- Agremont
The difference is that one is subjective, the other two are not.
People like different cars and I for one love the fact that there's sub 100hp cars in GT.
- 2,980
- Greensboro/NC/U
- jarod336/GTP_torque
- Paperorplastic/ manherollen
Because it's just not all about you, tons of people like driving odd ball out of the ordinary cars.
Also you have a choice, ..that's all it is really, you choose to drive them or not.
- 117
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