Global Warming/Climate Change Discussion Thread

[FoolKiller]

Maybe I should repost this article where the National Hurricane Center scientists say that hurricanes are on a cycle and we can expect more and bigger hurricanes. They also say that if global warming has any part it is minimal.

“All signs that I’ve seen show that it’s related to natural variability,” said Eric Blake, a meteorologist at the National Hurricane Center (NHC). “There could be some impact of global warming, but its role is probably a secondary or tertiary role.”



And I will admit that average (keyword) temperatures have been slowly rising over the years, but they have not increased or decreased the rate of growth with the increases and decreases in fossil fuel consumption. If our fossil fuel consumption is the major force behind global warming then why doesn't it plot out as a curve instead of the steadily increasing line that we see? How do you know that it is not just a natural occurence?

I have spent way to much time doing research and data analysis to say that just because a couple of things happen at the same time they are related. I stubbed my toe while my cat was taking a dump. Damn cat! He made me stub my toe! We must stop cat crap now!

 

[Young_Warrior]

All the countries that have something to lose by reducing global warming levels all ay it doesnt exist. Nice coincidence.
And BTW who exactly do you think bankrolles these scientists.

 

[Danoff]

Over a ridiculously small time frame compared to millions of species that are no longer around except in our petrol tanks etc , yas we have been extra Succesfull but what you claim to be ingenuity and scientific diligence is literaly funded by oil , before oil we were crap and 95% of scientific discoveries & world knowledge just did'nt exist . It is a case of back to the Piracy days because the one really powerfull compact source of our godlike power will simply not be around in 40 years time. That's nothing to the planet but it's a stress heap load of adjustments to us if we wih to make them anywhere near intime.

You put entirely too much weight in oil. You seem to think it's this miracle substance that we just can't live without. It's a rather bizzar obsession. Is it just that you like the idea of civilization grinding to a halt? What is the reason that you choose to think this way? I mean, I think it's quite clear if you look humanity as a whole, that we can overcome an oil deficiency quite easily.

All the countries that have something to lose by reducing global warming levels all ay it doesnt exist. Nice coincidence.
And BTW who exactly do you think bankrolles these scientists.

Lots of american scientists are spewing this global warming-due-to-us crap. Almost every american television station is spewing it even more.

Do you have ANY idea how research gets done?

You've shut your brain to any possibility other than what you want to be true. You want pollution to be ruining our climate because you know you can point the finger at the US if it is true. You want very badly to demonize industry and technology - and this gives you a convenient way.

Famine, who does not live in America, has put up the strongest opposition to the global warming-caused-by-us hoax. Yet you choose to ignore this. Why?

 

[FoolKiller]

All the countries that have something to lose by reducing global warming levels all ay it doesnt exist. Nice coincidence.
And BTW who exactly do you think bankrolles these scientists.

Well, I did say that there is a warming trend, but that no one can prove that it is a direct result of fossil fuel emissions. And if ALL the countries that have something to lose by reducing fossil fuel consumption (Not global warming, that's just the desired result. No one has anything to lose by reducing global warming.) say it doesn't exist then how do you explain the countries that have signed on to Kyoto and the G8 summit?

The scientists at the National Hurricane Center are funded by the Commerce Department because they are a branch of of NOAA and NOAA is part of the Department of Commerce. NOAA is highly respected and recognized as one of teh top organizations in the field of meteorology.

And the difference between National Hurricane Center scientists is that they release all their data and it can be replicated by other scientists, something that is often lacking in the scientists funded by environmentalist groups.

Find me a scientist who's funding doesn't leave questions. And while you are at it answer my questions from above.

 

[VT]

Over a ridiculously small time frame compared to millions of species that are no longer around except in our petrol tanks etc , yas we have been extra Succesfull but what you claim to be ingenuity and scientific diligence is literaly funded by oil , before oil we were crap and 95% of scientific discoveries & world knowledge just did'nt exist . It is a case of back to the Piracy days because the one really powerfull compact source of our godlike power will simply not be around in 40 years time. That's nothing to the planet but it's a stress heap load of adjustments to us if we wih to make them anywhere near intime.

Have you never heard of wind energy? Solar energy? Geothermal energy? How about hydroelectric power?

Alternative resources are expanding greatly and have been doing so over the past 5-10 years. They now total approxiamately 20% of U.S. power production. All this over a fairly short timeframe. None of those energy sources use any substantial amount of oil.

Your extremist views are nowhere close to what is really happening in the world.

95% of our knowledge wouldn't exist, eh?

Did you ever think to realize that most all of mathematics was discovered pre 1900 with the only significant change in teh 20th century being the Chaos Theory and calculators?

Alot of physics was also discovered before oil was in abundant usage.

Take a looksee at what all was discovered in Physics prior to the first usage of oil in automobiles (circa 1886).
Take a step back a think about if your posts make any sense next time.

 

[Danoff]

That's nothing to the planet but it's a stress heap load of adjustments to us if we wih to make them anywhere near intime.

I for one am looking forward to it. I hope gas prices go up some more. I want to see oil become really unaffordable. I want us to have to adjust to the lack of oil because I see some really exciting techonology coming up. The higher priced oil becomes, the more resources the market pours into alternatives.

It's beautiful. I say we drain and burn oil as fast as possible so that there's none left quickly and we move on.

 

[ZAGGIN]

hmmm... ive just got back after a long break from this forum and i am greatful for everyones input into this discussion.

ive been watching the unfolidng horror that has been left in the wake of hurricane katrina, and i, like you have been humbled by the awsome destructive power of nature. once again we have been shown that we are not the masters of this beautiful planet. my deepest sympatihes and thoughts are with those still caught up in this incredible natural disaster.

at the start of this thread, i stressed the importance of oil, but no one, not one person agreed with me at the time, well watch what enfolds over the next few months.
hurricane katrina managed to take out a large proportion of the usas oil refining capability, and it is starting to having an effect.
george bush has already address the nation asking for americans to conserve energy, and use less fuel. this very statement alone is a signal to how serious the situation is, as we all know how staunchly george bush defends the american economy, and its love affair of the automobile. there have been reports of angry scenes at petrol pumps as americans vent their anger at the rising cost of fuel.

american has no reserves of petrol, though it does have a large strategic reserve of oil, but that is next to useless without a refinery. europe does keep large reserves of petrol, but that is for europe. its up for debate whether europe will allow our strategic reserves to be depleted knowing that the worlds oil refining capacity has been severly damaged. either way, fuel in america will cost a lot more (it will have to be shipped to the usa), and if the eu decides to allow the usa to take some of our reserves, then it will cost a lot more in europe too. is oil still so unimportant?

i knew, with out a working example, i could never convince anyone (american or otherwise) that our dependance on oil would have to be changed. the gulf coast disaster has provided such an example. expect the price of petrol to rise, and rise sharply. goods in shops will start to cost more too. the price of crude oil is all ready at a record high, and it can only be expected to get higher and higher. this is going to be a global economic disaster, that will take decades to recover from. every nation on earth will feel the effects of this hurricane, trust me.

if you want a taster of what the world would be like with oil running out, just keep watching. im not going to sit here say i told you so, the fat lady hasnt sung yet; but believe me, she is on the stage, with mike in hand waiting...

 

[Danoff]

at the start of this thread, i stressed the importance of oil, but no one, not one person agreed with me at the time, well watch what enfolds over the next few months.
hurricane katrina managed to take out a large proportion of the usas oil refining capability, and it is starting to having an effect.

The production from our gulf coast has been essentially shut down (for now). The gulf coast accounts for a quarter of the oil the US produces, which accounts for a little over 10% of what we use nationwide. So it's not like we're talking about anything earth shattering here.

george bush has already address the nation asking for americans to conserve energy, and use less fuel. this very statement alone is a signal to how serious the situation is, as we all know how staunchly george bush defends the american economy, and its love affair of the automobile. there have been reports of angry scenes at petrol pumps as americans vent their anger at the rising cost of fuel.

Angry scenes? I haven't seen any. I think a few have been reported but it's not like this is a wide spread issue. Yes we don't like paying a lot for something we didn't pay much for a year or two ago - but that doesn't mean that world is ending.

And Bush recommends stuff like the conservation of energy all the time. Presidents recommend stuff like that constantly in times like this. I wouldn't put too much stock in it as an indication of the severity of the situation.

american has no reserves of petrol, though it does have a large strategic reserve of oil, but that is next to useless without a refinery. europe does keep large reserves of petrol, but that is for europe. its up for debate whether europe will allow our strategic reserves to be depleted knowing that the worlds oil refining capacity has been severly damaged.

The world's oil refining capacity has been severly damaged??? When?

either way, fuel in america will cost a lot more (it will have to be shipped to the usa), and if the eu decides to allow the usa to take some of our reserves, then it will cost a lot more in europe too. is oil still so unimportant?

10% of the fuel in america will have to be shipped to the USA temporarily IF we maintain the same consumption, which we will not if prices increase - we won't be importing 100% as you imply here.

i knew, with out a working example, i could never convince anyone (american or otherwise) that our dependance on oil would have to be changed. the gulf coast disaster has provided such an example.

Has it? I'm not seeing it. I'm seeing a temporary decrease in the US refining capability, but I don't see that having unbelievable effects on the price of oil. They were going up as it was, so I expect them to continue to rise. I would be surprised if they crossed the $4 mark soon. I, for one, hope it does. I'd rather the price went up then us getting it from Europe. I'd rather people had to pay a lot for their oil over here than that we find ways around letting the prices hit us. At the same time though, they need emergency gas over there in the gulf right away - but that's just emergency supplies. They need lots of things.

expect the price of petrol to rise, and rise sharply. goods in shops will start to cost more too. the price of crude oil is all ready at a record high, and it can only be expected to get higher and higher. this is going to be a global economic disaster, that will take decades to recover from. every nation on earth will feel the effects of this hurricane, trust me.

The US having to build or rebuild refineries is not a "global economic disaster". I do not think even most of the nations on earth will feel the effects of this hurricane.

if you want a taster of what the world would be like with oil running out, just keep watching. im not going to sit here say i told you so, the fat lady hasnt sung yet; but believe me, she is on the stage, with mike in hand waiting...

So what is it with you Europeans and your obsession with oil? It's practically all I hear about from you guys.

 

[the_undrtaker89]

Who gives a **** about global warming? Seriously, you guys could open a thread up about how it's so bad, but no one is going to do a god damn thing about it.


The way I see it is, right now we are living the best lives in human history, and we're entering the self destruction of man kind.

I don't know how much fossil fuel remains, but as soon as we reach 15-20% we have to switch to another source. We should start creating fuel cells from the remaining oil, and save the rest for plastics and such. This is the way we can save a little of our fossil fuels.

Or find a way to take bones and speed up the process of turning it into oil.

 

[Famine]

Let us not forget, the Young Earth proponents (see "Evolution vs Creation" thread) would have you believe that the planet has only existed for 6,000 years. We could therefore knock up some more coal and oil in no time.

 

[Joey D]

6,000 years? I thought it was scienticficly proven that it was billions of years old. Hell the dinosaur fossils carbon dating shows 65 million years.

 

[Famine]

Doesn't stop them in the slightest.

 

[Danoff]

Who gives a **** about global warming? Seriously, you guys could open a thread up about how it's so bad, but no one is going to do a god damn thing about it.


The way I see it is, right now we are living the best lives in human history, and we're entering the self destruction of man kind.

I don't know how much fossil fuel remains, but as soon as we reach 15-20% we have to switch to another source. We should start creating fuel cells from the remaining oil, and save the rest for plastics and such. This is the way we can save a little of our fossil fuels.

Or find a way to take bones and speed up the process of turning it into oil.

Self destruction? I'm not seeing it. We'll find another way to make plastics and fuel cells or whatever it is we need.

 

[Joey D]

Well now I'm just horrifically confused...oh well the worlds going to hell anyways. A little warmth can't be all that bad. It will be nice and cozy.

 

[the_undrtaker89]

Self destruction? I'm not seeing it. We'll find another way to make plastics and fuel cells or whatever it is we need.

With what? We use oil for everything. And I don't know if you understand what a giant leap it'll be. We use plastics a lot and we need it. The population is going up too. its, its, its the apocalypse!!!!!


The horror......the horror.

 

[PS]

Well now I'm just horrifically confused...oh well the worlds going to hell anyways. A little warmth can't be all that bad. It will be nice and cozy.

*cough Hurricanes cough*

 

[Danoff]

*cough Hurricanes cough*

*cough bbbhhhhoooossssshhhhhttttt cough*

With what? We use oil for everything. And I don't know if you understand what a giant leap it'll be. We use plastics a lot and we need it. The population is going up too. its, its, its the apocalypse!!!!!


The horror......the horror.

Yup. Too bad humanity collectively forgot how to use its brain to solve problems.

 

[Grand Prix]

I hope we can can find a combustible alternative to petrol. I'll miss the sound of Ferrari V12s.

 

[the_undrtaker89]

*cough bbbhhhhoooossssshhhhhttttt cough*



Yup. Too bad humanity collectively forgot how to use its brain to solve problems.

What I'm trying to say is that there is no and never has been resource as powerful as petroleum is. Transportation effiency is going to heavily fall.

 

[PS]

*cough bbbhhhhoooossssshhhhhttttt cough*

Right. And what vocabulary of strange noises did that one come from?

 

[Max_DC]

Ok I just flew over a dozen posts after my last one on page 1...
Fact is that there are several opinions out there concerning the connection of global warming and burning fossil fuels etc.

It is a little strange however to see how fast the increase of temperature is in the last 100 years compared to earlier times.

BUT what you all seem to leave out is Global dimming . Ever heard anything about that ?
To sum it up : it helps to slow down the process of global warming - all the dirt and dust in teh atmosphere - if we wouldn't have that influence, the global warming effect would be twice as massive or even more.

Next point : Global warming is one thing, but the other point is the horrible influence on health. That is fact - no matter what our GTP experts say - my father is a doctor and knows a lot about this.

 

[Famine]

You mean how global life expectancies are twice what they were 100 years ago?

 

[ZAGGIN]

10% of the fuel in america will have to be shipped to the USA temporarily IF we maintain the same consumption, which we will not if prices increase - we won't be importing 100% as you imply here.

maintain the same consumption? NEVER! america is famous for its gas guzzling boxing monstrosities. crappy gas milage is the norm for cars in the usa. how on earth are you going to convince all those SUV drivers to conserve fuel when they need to fill the damn things up every five minutes?

 

[Famine]

That's what "maintain the same consumption" means. Staying as they are now. They don't need to convince all those SUV drivers to do anything out of the ordinary at all.

 

[Max_DC]

You mean how global life expectancies are twice what they were 100 years ago?

So what ? Medicine has developed over the past 100 years and working conditions got better.
That has nothing to do with the negative influence of dirt and dust : the smallest particles are the problem : They cause cancer, heart attacks, ateriosclerotis etc etc

= it could be even better than today. Of course this is only one aspect, but not the least important one.

 

[DeLoreanBrown]

Have you never heard of wind energy? Solar energy? Geothermal energy? How about hydroelectric power?

Alternative resources are expanding greatly and have been doing so over the past 5-10 years. They now total approxiamately 20% of U.S. power production. All this over a fairly short timeframe. None of those energy sources use any substantial amount of oil.

>>>>>>>>

Take a looksee at what all was discovered in Physics prior to the first usage of oil in automobiles (circa 1886).
Take a step back a think about if your posts make any sense next time.

That Physics page ; 70% of those discoveries in the last 120 years , only 30% in the 1400 years before that again, see any connection ? any accelerator (2500%) present ? , maybe ive taken leave of my senses but you should take a step back before you post links that refute your own claims.
​

Renewable energy , to take the first part of your post , suchas hydro power have been around for centuries but they are not the alternative you assume they are , for a start every single 'alternative' you mention is region specific ; you go to the power the power does not come to you ( not even winds , which need sometimes unfortunate locales ) this means thay are in a different energy mode from fossil fuel and they engender difficulties not supported by the WorldEconomy , the Market, which is my point . Go and sell wind power to the public , they've been trying to make a market success of such ventures in 'green democratic' Germany for a couple of decades with disappointing and flat results .
​

You also fail to mention the prime example of market influences and alternative energy , which is probably in your 20% and not in your 80% fossils-like-co2-coal today , NUCLEAR ENERGY .
​

It's asurefire winner is'nt it ? Small quantites of earthcrust elements , recyclability , no greenhouse gases . Then why , worldwide , has nuclear energy declined ? why are we decommissioning faster than we are building such powerplants ( which are not amenable to small transportation) ? Cost , marketplace and marketing . They got bad press in the latter quarter of the twentieth and governmental policy followed suit , plus they are far more expensive to build and maintain.
​

The market calls the shots on energy pricing ( ala enron ) and every nut and bolt falls in line , so don't jump the gun until you realize that we can't just wishfully dream or believe an alternative society and it will suddenly come about because were so freaking brainy and all , you're not in reality which is ruled by a very jumpy panic-prone marketplace completely and totally addicted to the heroin of cheap coal and cheap oil without which about 2/3 of the goods you own would not be possible and also without which the modern communication wonderworld would never have been called in to being .
​

Having faith in our resourcefullness is good ,but being wary of transitions and harsh choices that never in our history have we had to deal with and certainly not of a cutoff magnitude is also necessary if one is giong to keep your blissed out brain in scope . Are you from NO? Think what happens to people when transport , power and foodstuffs suddenly fail ( MOST food today is only possible because of oilbased fertilizers) It is no Frickin' picnic upahead so go back to yo mommy and lock yourself in your washroom until airthin's Rosy.

BTW this thread has seen slightly , mm , heated discussion.
​

 

[Famine]

So what ? Medicine has developed over the past 100 years and working conditions got better.
That has nothing to do with the negative influence of dirt and dust : the smallest particles are the problem : They cause cancer, heart attacks, ateriosclerotis etc etc

= it could be even better than today. Of course this is only one aspect, but not the least important one.

No, it couldn't.

The maximum lifespan of a human being is currently estimated as 150 years. Even if you steer completely clear of any diseases, your telomeres see to that. The fact that the average lifespan of a human being in the developed world is more than half of this is pretty impressive.

Dirt and dust are vital to us too. If you live in a sterile environment, the first time you encounter dirt and dust, you'll get ill. VERY ill. My nephew lives in a house with no carpets. When he goes to see his granddad, he can't stay for more than 24 hours because the dust in the carpets and the pet hair causes extremely aggressive asthma. If he were constantly exposed to dust and pet hair, he wouldn't suffer as much, if at all.

Immune systems are very much "use it or lose it". If we aren't constantly fighting low grade disease, our reaction (or lack thereof) to immunological tests would be catastrophic.


Nevertheless, we are living longer now than at any point in our history. You say that this is because of medical interventions improving and despite pollution. I say that it is because of both and that even if just low-grade pollution caused a serious negative effect on health would it not be directly contributory to an improvement in medical intervention?

Don't get me wrong - LA-style smogs can't be good for anyone (except people who sell air purifiers), but the sort of air pollution you'd find in even a small European city isn't going to wipe years (or even seconds) off everyone's life.

 

[Max_DC]

No, it couldn't.

The maximum lifespan of a human being is currently estimated as 150 years. Even if you steer completely clear of any diseases, your telomeres see to that. The fact that the average lifespan of a human being in the developed world is more than half of this is pretty impressive.

Dirt and dust are vital to us too. If you live in a sterile environment, the first time you encounter dirt and dust, you'll get ill. VERY ill. My nephew lives in a house with no carpets. When he goes to see his granddad, he can't stay for more than 24 hours because the dust in the carpets and the pet hair causes extremely aggressive asthma. If he were constantly exposed to dust and pet hair, he wouldn't suffer as much, if at all.

Immune systems are very much "use it or lose it". If we aren't constantly fighting low grade disease, our reaction (or lack thereof) to immunological tests would be catastrophic.


Nevertheless, we are living longer now than at any point in our history. You say that this is because of medical interventions improving and despite pollution. I say that it is because of both and that even if just low-grade pollution caused a serious negative effect on health would it not be directly contributory to an improvement in medical intervention?

Don't get me wrong - LA-style smogs can't be good for anyone (except people who sell air purifiers), but the sort of air pollution you'd find in even a small European city isn't going to wipe years (or even seconds) off everyone's life.

And here we come to the point : You know a lot, everybody here knows that. And although I don't remember it exactly, I know that you work with genetics and have therefor a very good knowledge of biology and other sciences like chemistry and biochemestry etc.

BUT you are no doctor. You didn't study medicine : I've met many very good professors on my university, who know a lot about their topics, e.g. chemistry.

Their view on things is influenced by years of studying their stuff and they are focused on it. And that's why they often loose or never had the view for medical issues - well at least how much somebody without a medical education can.
I don't know you and I don't want to attack you or your brain but don't take your high knowledge in one or several scientific areas for granted in other scientific areas.

Why? What you said is not the whole reality.

First paragraph - ok.
Second paragraph : there it begins : a natural amount of bakteria ? Of course we need that. Is the problem of your nephew connected to the way he lives ? Perhaps to a certain degree, perhaps completly. Perhaps his doctor knows, perhaps not.

I don't talk about a virus or bakteria ( which I din't make clear perhaps ), I talk about small dust - asbest, dust from diesel cars/trucks etc. That goes into your brain, into your lungs, into your blood system : It causes heart attacks and many MANY deseases. That is the medical knowledge of today, how grave the problem really is ? Nobody knows, but it was underestimated ! Why are there days with more heart attacks than usual ? They said because of the climate of that day. Well, there might be an influence, but the heart attacks on those days are the result from dust of cars etc - pollution : Smog. If you are downtown on a day with a lot of pollution, the risk of getting a heart attacke etc increases by many % ( 100 ? 300 ? Can't tell you the exact number atm).

Next thing is your balck and white argumentation : 75 years, 80 years - it's not only about the pure length, but about the quality !

Your last sentence is just wrong ! We often have catastrophatic air pollution even in small cities without thousands cars or industry. The air is still blue, but it damages your health system.

 

[Famine]

And here we come to the point : You know a lot, everybody here knows that. And although I don't remember it exactly, I know that you work with genetics and have therefor a very good knowledge of biology and other sciences like chemistry and biochemestry etc.

BUT you are no doctor. You didn't study medicine : I've met many very good professors on my university, who know a lot about their topics, e.g. chemistry.

Their view on things is influenced by years of studying their stuff and they are focused on it. And that's why they often loose or never had the view for medical issues - well at least how much somebody without a medical education can.
I don't know you and I don't want to attack you or your brain but don't take your high knowledge in one or several scientific areas for granted in other scientific areas.

Fun fact - I applied to, and was conditionally accepted to, university on a medical degree.

On that topic, there's many qualified GPs I wouldn't trust to tell me what gender I am, even after I slapped them in the face with my tackle.

Whilst you're quick to condemn "scientists" talking about medicine, you don't seem to understand that medicine IS a science and single-centre studies (one doctor, or one practice) do not make for good science.

Why? What you said is not the whole reality.

First paragraph - ok.
Second paragraph : there it begins : a natural amount of bakteria ? Of course we need that. Is the problem of your nephew connected to the way he lives ? Perhaps to a certain degree, perhaps completly. Perhaps his doctor knows, perhaps not.

I don't talk about a virus or bakteria ( which I din't make clear perhaps ), I talk about small dust

As do I. Ask your dad what causes an asthma attack.

Dust is VITAL to us. What immunological function do you believe the stomach and the nostrils/tonsils serve - ask your dad this too.

Why are there days with more heart attacks than usual ? They said because of the climate of that day.

I've not heard anything as bizarre as this in a long time.

There's seven days a week. All things being equal, you'd expect the same number of heart attacks on any day of the week. But all things are not equal and I'd bet good money on there not being the same number of heart attacks on any two days of the week.

Dust causes heart attacks? My stars...

Your last sentence is just wrong ! We often have catastrophatic air pollution even in small cities without thousands cars or industry. The air is still blue, but it damages your health system.

Sheffield. Fourth largest city in England by area, fifth by population. It's a small city, by city standards, at around 600,000 people and 147 square miles. I would get down on my knees and snort the air in from ground level and not suffer any ill health at all. Check out our pollution levels.


Again, you level the blame at cars. Again I must point out that, due to emissions regulations, all cars manufactured after 1993 must, in the UK, pass emissions threshholds to be used on the road. These threshholds are LOWER than the surrounding air. Wave an exhaust monitor around in the air in central London and the air will fail.

On a similar note, if you scoop up soil from the ground - doesn't matter where - then walk into a nuclear power station and immediately turn round and walk out, you will be stopped. The soil is radioactive enough that the act of carrying it out of a nuclear power station means it must be disposed of as low grade nuclear waste, even though it came from outside anyway and wasn't exposed to anything inside the building.

 

[DeLoreanBrown]

On a similar note, if you scoop up soil from the ground - doesn't matter where - then walk into a nuclear power station and immediately turn round and walk out, you will be stopped. The soil is radioactive enough that the act of carrying it out of a nuclear power station means it must be disposed of as low grade nuclear waste, even though it came from outside anyway and wasn't exposed to anything inside the building.

Any piece of Granite or the face of a Luminous Watch will set a nuclear installations Geiger measures into Alarm mode . There is a sizable amount of background radioactivity in nature , but small amounts of hotstuff have historically caused us more debate than the fossil carbons that we cannot create with processes . The green debate has pushed our only really viable energy resource into the twilight zone.

​

You put entirely too much weight in oil. You seem to think it's this miracle substance that we just can't live without. It's a rather bizzar obsession. Is it just that you like the idea of civilization grinding to a halt? What is the reason that you choose to think this way? I mean, I think it's quite clear if you look humanity as a whole, that we can overcome an oil deficiency quite easily.

&

I for one am looking forward to it. I hope gas prices go up some more. I want to see oil become really unaffordable. I want us to have to adjust to the lack of oil because I see some really exciting techonology coming up. The higher priced oil becomes, the more resources the market pours into alternatives.

It's beautiful. I say we drain and burn oil as fast as possible so that there's none left quickly and we move on.

Yeah , it would be real nice if the highway ended in a precipice , that would teach us a lesson about how we should have made & sold cars as flying vehicles initialy . sure, the market has alternatives in it , but the world economy as a whole cannot afford abrupt transitions , the cost would be incalculable . It's not that i worship oil it's just that , if you compare it to it's alternative rival ; Hydrogen , you will begin to see that per weight calorific value , containability and ease of production have lulled us into thinking that energy in any form in the bounds of the solar cell called Earth is Cheap when it IS NOT , it has a hefty price tag ; Responsible Usage & Aggressive Foreplanning.​