Global Warming/Climate Change Discussion Thread

[Barra333]

How unsettled has the climate actually been?

I think when they say unsettled, they are referring to extreme weather events. Flooding, extreme heat/cold, more intense hurricanes.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I think when they say unsettled, they are referring to extreme weather events. Flooding, extreme heat/cold, more intense hurricanes.

Who is they? I only quoted one person. So is there more flooding, extreme heat/cold, more intense hurricanes than historical averages?

 

[Barra333]

Who is they? I only quoted one person. So is there more flooding, extreme heat/cold, more intense hurricanes than historical averages?

The general 'they'. People. I don't have data to say there are more of these events happening, I was just clarifying what I think the intention of the term 'unsettled' means in climate discussions.

 

[Rallywagon]

They change with climate change, and they influence climate change. A net increase in global temperatures will either result in more or fewer clouds. Clouds also affect climate change by either trapping heat or reflecting sunlight back into space. They could combat or compound.

I'll have to look into this some more I suppose. I understand the basic mechanics of cloud "production" and their overall effect. I just wonder about the overall effects clouds contribute to any global warming trends. That they are more of symptom rather than a cause.

How unsettled has the climate actually been?

Well, I suppose that depends on how long of a timeline you want to look at. It's run the range of near 100% ice coverage to none at all. There is evidence to support that our own species nearly died off, population down to as little as 2000 some 12000 years ago. This due to astroid strikes that hit the northern ice cap. Then there is the dark ages. A sudden drop of tempature then causing famine and severe shortages of grain.
There have been 5 mass extinction events that we are aware of. All on set by unsettled weather effected by cataclysmic events. But even looking in-between those events, there are consistent jumps up and down of 10° every 100k years. The Holocene, it has got to be said, has been the most consistent in global tempatures by far.

 

[Danoff]

I'll have to look into this some more I suppose. I understand the basic mechanics of cloud "production" and their overall effect. I just wonder about the overall effects clouds contribute to any global warming trends. That they are more of symptom rather than a cause.

They provide feedback. So when someone tries to extrapolate out to 2100 (like in your plot above) their extrapolations are junk if they don't understand how effects like... taking clouds as a single example... respond and feed back into the system.

The Holocene, it has got to be said, has been the most consistent in global tempatures by far.

Kinda hard to tell from that plot, which stretches 20 thousand years out to be about 20% of the duration plotted on the right side, and 100 million years represents a tiny fraction on the left side.

Pliocene looks like it spans less or at least similar temperature fluctuation in a much longer time period (3 million years). Actually the two before it are tight as well.

 

[Imari]

Rick Perry, our new head of the Department of Energy has changed his mind about closing the Department, and thinks human activities contribute at least in part to global climate change. That was quick!

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/19/us/politics/confirmation-hearings-cabinet-donald-trump.html

I should be surprised at how easily some people will change their minds when offered power, but I suspect that it describes a large amount of politicians.

 

[xyloscissor]

Can we get a little more simple in the science? What happens when a volcano erupts? How about a super one?

I like the political part of the argument, especially now that Trump is squashing or trying to, some of the alarmists. Always a scare, how can a mammal who has been on this earth no longer than a split second in time compared to the life of the earth do all so much?

I'd be much more worried about splitting the atom and that doesn't even scare me.

Here is something fun.


I thought it was very funny when NASA years ago took there c02 maps off of their website when it was pointed out the highest levels of c02 were over some of the most plush green growing areas in the world.

 

[Imari]

Always a scare, how can a mammal who has been on this earth no longer than a split second in time compared to the life of the earth do all so much?

How can one asteroid wipe out the dinosaurs?

There's an awful lot of humans, and we've developed some pretty efficient ways of doing things. We've found some great ways of skipping over the "natural" cycles of matter and energy in order to turn them to our benefit. Most people seem happy to accept that push come to shove, if there were something really wrong with the climate that was going to kill off the human race we could probably have a decent go at stopping it. That's why people are asking for action instead of going around with signs saying "THE END OF THE WORLD IS NIGH".

Given that, is it so hard to believe the opposite? That we could make the climate worse? Difficult, maybe. Plausible, totally.

 

[xyloscissor]

Given that, is it so hard to believe the opposite? That we could make the climate worse? Difficult, maybe. Plausible, totally.

There is this idea that humans are somehow not a part of nature, I will never understand that. I agree that we can make things harder on ourselves but only that and nothing more.

The way I see it is the sky is falling people can only be happy when humans no longer exist, I'm sorry to say that I disagree with that a great deal. I didn't ask to be born but yet I am here, I will never apologize to the earth for that. And no, I don't care to hear all the stuff about my future generations. I am conservative by nature so I only use what I need and nothing more.

 

[mustafur]

We might be part of nature but we are the only living creatures on this planet to think outside instinct, the fact we already invented things that can explode the planet is proof enough of how dangerious we are.

Individualism has it's limits unfortunately.

 

[xyloscissor]

We might be part of nature but we are the only living creatures on this planet to think outside instinct, the fact we already invented things that can explode the planet is proof enough of how dangerious we are.

Individualism has it's limits unfortunately.

That might be a thought for the God thread.

 

[mustafur]

That might be a thought for the God thread.

Nah, too many Facts.

 

[xyloscissor]

Nah, too many Facts.

So do we have a right to life or not? No strings attached, do we belong here.

 

[mustafur]

So do we have a right to life or not? No strings attached, do we belong here.

We as in the individual don't determine our rights, rights are something created and policed by someone.

Otherwise it's just occupation of a life.

 

[xyloscissor]

We as in the individual don't determine our rights, rights are something created and policed by someone.

Otherwise it's just occupation of a life.

So wrong you are.

 

[mustafur]

So wrong you are.

Well prove me otherwise.

 

[xyloscissor]

Well prove me otherwise.

I was born and I am alive, that is more than enough. Something you will never consider.

 

[mustafur]

I was born and I am alive, that is more than enough. Something you will never consider.

Natural Rights are a name that shouldn't be confused with legal rights. Reason being they are not based on the right to do things rather then the ability and occupation of things.

You can say I have the Right to be born and life, but if there is nothing to stop the killing of the pregnant mother and the Murderer you are just occupying under your ability.

 

[xyloscissor]

Natural Rights are a name that shouldn't be confused with legal rights. Reason being they are not based on the right to do things rather then the ability and occupation of things.

You can boast all your legalities all you want. I don't care for any of them, at all. I have my right to life and I don't care about what you might say I do as wrong, I've already told you I have no wish to take away another man's rights and that is enough.

I know you are a socialist and I don't exactly disrespect that, I will live my life and I'm quite happy in my little mind that I will not destroy the earth in the process. How dare I cut down trees to build a house or heat my home? How dare I shoot a deer to feed my kids? How dare I actually exist?

That is the very question.

 

[mustafur]

You can boast all your legalities all you want. I don't care for any of them, at all. I have my right to life and I don't care about what you might say I do as wrong, I've already told you I have no wish to take away another man's rights and that is enough.

I know you are a socialist and I don't exactly disrespect that, I will live my life and I'm quite happy in my little mind that I will not destroy the earth in the process. How dare I cut down trees to build a house or heat my home? How dare I shoot a deer to feed my kids? How dare I actually exist?

That is the very question.

Incorrect, I believe if anything I was of the right of your last account in the political quiz(Yes I know who you are and it's not hard to figure that out).

 

[xyloscissor]

Incorrect, I believe if anything I was of the right of your last account in the political quiz(Yes I know who you are and it's not hard to figure that out).

I don't know what your are talking about but that is fine, if you are not socialist then accept my apology.

What you are speaking of here is socialist don't you agree? How else can you say I should not pursue my sole right to happiness and life? I'm not seeing a way out for you on this and it is not even relevant how conservative I might be.

You are seriously suggesting that humans do not belong on the earth, think about it for a moment.

 

[mustafur]

What you are speaking of here is socialist don't you agree? How else can you say I should not pursue my sole right to happiness and life? I'm not seeing a way out for you on this and it is not even relevant how conservative I might be.

How is what i'm saying Socialist, not everything is an economic policy. Think about it for a second before writing off what I'm saying, I'm not implying on what you should do, just saying in reality this is how human interaction works when it comes to rights, and the definition of rights and right to do, compared to Natural rights which falls under Occupation and ability.

You are seriously suggesting that humans do not belong on the earth, think about it for a moment.

I believe(really? more like understand) in the Scientific theory(not mistaken for a normal theory just so we understand) of Evolution, belong is not exactly accurate, adapted would be better for if we find another planet for which we can live on, who is to say we don't belong there as well?

 

[xyloscissor]

All I can say at this point is, I will live my life the way I want to. I will not directly hurt another man without cause. I do not care one ounce what laws might dictate other than what I perceive to be correct. I don't owe anyone on this earth anything more that my respect, and my respect is sincere.

I don't care a bit if the earth is warming up, I can still ski in all the places I love and the snow is great.

 

[mustafur]

All I can say at this point is, I will live my life the way I want to. I will not directly hurt another man without cause. I do not care one ounce what laws might dictate other than what I perceive to be correct. I don't owe anyone on this earth anything more that my respect, and my respect is sincere.

I don't care a bit if the earth is warming up, I can still ski in all the places I love and the snow is great.

Spot the person not living in reality.

And again your ignorance to not even read responses makes your reply repetitive and lacking context in response especially when already answered.

 

[Danoff]

Natural Rights are a name that shouldn't be confused with legal rights. Reason being they are not based on the right to do things rather then the ability and occupation of things.

You can say I have the Right to be born and life, but if there is nothing to stop the killing of the pregnant mother and the Murderer you are just occupying under your ability.

It's really not for this thread (really more for the human rights thread), but rights exist whether or not they are enforced. Ironically, a lack of enforcement of rights is the only thing that gives rights any meaning. If all rights were necessarily obeyed all the time by all people (ie: it was not possible for someone to choose to violate them), they'd cease to hold any meaning. It'd just be reality.

 

[mustafur]

It's really not for this thread (really more for the human rights thread), but rights exist whether or not they are enforced. Ironically, a lack of enforcement of rights is the only thing that gives rights any meaning. If all rights were necessarily obeyed all the time by all people (ie: it was not possible for someone to choose to violate them), they'd cease to hold any meaning. It'd just be reality.

That's why I don't like the name of Natural rights because it's confusing, I agree with what it's saying but it's easier and less confusing just labelling them as ability's as that is really what it comes down to, as free thinkers being Human and all.

Everything I have said though is based on the situations we face today so I reworded those to fit it.

Now ill promise to stay on topic.

 

[xyloscissor]

That's why I don't like the name of Natural rights because it's confusing, I agree with what it's saying but it's easier and less confusing just labelling them as ability's as that is really what it comes down to, as free thinkers being Human and all.

Everything I have said though is based on the situations we face today so I reworded those to fit it.

Now ill promise to stay on topic.

I don't believe that my actions can affect the climate or earth in a negative way because if that was the fact I would not have been born. I know we will not agree and I don't mind that or mean to put you down, it is what I think and you are right...

My mind will not be changed

 

[mustafur]

I don't believe that my actions can affect the climate or earth in a negative way because if that was the fact I would not have been born. I know we will not agree and I don't mind that or mean to put you down, it is what I think and you are right...

My mind will not be changed

I know what your saying, but we still have to keep in mind we are the special animals that are the only ones on this earth that can actually end it, you would say well thats natural because we are from it, I will say fair enough but I still want it to exist.

 

[xyloscissor]

Me too 👍

 

[Imari]

There is this idea that humans are somehow not a part of nature, I will never understand that. I agree that we can make things harder on ourselves but only that and nothing more.

Sure. Good job I never said anything about humans not being part of nature then.

The way I see it is the sky is falling people can only be happy when humans no longer exist, I'm sorry to say that I disagree with that a great deal. I didn't ask to be born but yet I am here, I will never apologize to the earth for that. And no, I don't care to hear all the stuff about my future generations. I am conservative by nature so I only use what I need and nothing more.

The sky is falling people are idiots. Clearly, the sky is not falling. However, one can recognise that potentially humans as a whole are having a negative effect on a system we don't really understand.

You may be conservative and frugal with your use of resources, but there are 6,999,999,999 other people out there. There are also businesses, which often find it prudent to put short term profits above long term goals. No matter how many trees you may personally hug, there's always value in talking about how the human race as a whole approaches these things.

I don't believe that my actions can affect the climate or earth in a negative way because if that was the fact I would not have been born.

What?

You're going to have to spell that one out for me, I don't see how that makes any logical sense at all.