God and his so called fairy tales
- Thread starter SS69
- 153 comments
- 4,132 views
- 12,825
Actually, atoms already existed pre-Big Bang. In 1927, the Belgian priest Georges Lemaître was the first to propose that the universe began with the explosion of an already existent primeval atom. His theory was based upon Aleksander Friedman's independent publishing of his theory of an ever-expanding universe in 1922.
Boom.
- 3,194
Here's some Hard Evidence for JPEC.
Black Sea Atrifacts Point to an Ancient Flood
New book on Noah's Flood
Of course,... one could turn it's back on science and all logic by saying this cant be "proven",... but you may as well be tellin us that 2+2 doesnt = 4. Thats how rediculous it sounds somtimes when science isnt given it's proper/due respect as a factual means of evidence gathering.
Black Sea Atrifacts Point to an Ancient Flood
New book on Noah's Flood
Of course,... one could turn it's back on science and all logic by saying this cant be "proven",... but you may as well be tellin us that 2+2 doesnt = 4. Thats how rediculous it sounds somtimes when science isnt given it's proper/due respect as a factual means of evidence gathering.
- 10,832
You should know better than this by now.
It is also worth mentioning that fossils don't form in clay. It's impossible. Furthermore, layers of rock at the same site will contain fossils from geologically distant eras. This is evidence that this locale is very old, much older than the document that you claim "proves God's existance", and much older than this document claims the Earth is.
Have you ever heard of Hamurabis Law? It was written approximately 1790 BCE. It is as old as the ten commandments, and embodies the same principles.
You have provided no proof at all. And you can't. I only invited you to try because I enjoy seeing people like you try so hard, adding a new spin on it when it occurs to them, making things up, and never once mentioning belief or faith. Arer you sure your a Christian? Why would you need all this "proof" anyway?
It is all indirect. Likewise, any evidence that there is no god is also all indirect.
No it doesn't. Period.
There are many layers to the earth. They are called strata and they represent geologic time. Why does the story of the flood include only modern animals? Why were there no dinosaurs? Why were there no saber toothed cats, giant sloths, etc? The fossil record of all of these creatures is probably the most damning evidence against your argument.
It is also worth mentioning that fossils don't form in clay. It's impossible. Furthermore, layers of rock at the same site will contain fossils from geologically distant eras. This is evidence that this locale is very old, much older than the document that you claim "proves God's existance", and much older than this document claims the Earth is.
Finding something hard to understand is no proof of any alternative explanation. Frankly, I do believe that life was engendered by physical processes in the universe. Call it coincidence, call it random, call it whatever you want. We are all made of stardust. I suggest you refer to sn00pie's link.
No it's not.
No part of the bible was written that long ago. That is eight thousand years. The bible says the Earth is not even that old.
Have you ever heard of Hamurabis Law? It was written approximately 1790 BCE. It is as old as the ten commandments, and embodies the same principles.
So? Obviously people will record what they see. Burroughs' Naked Lunch takes place in real places like Tangiers, but does that mean Mugwumps exist in Interzone? Harry Potter takes place in Britain. Does that mean there is a train station where you can go through the wall and end up at Hogwarts. Same argument.
Again, somnething that is hard to understand, or even not understood, is no proof of anything else.
You have provided no proof at all. And you can't. I only invited you to try because I enjoy seeing people like you try so hard, adding a new spin on it when it occurs to them, making things up, and never once mentioning belief or faith. Arer you sure your a Christian? Why would you need all this "proof" anyway?
Pako
Staff Emeritus
- 16,455
- NW Montana
- GTP-Pako
- GTP Pako
You know...watching the Discovery Channel last week, and according to the show it was actually Aliens that destroyed the city of Sodom and Gemora. They went on to explain other occurances in the Bible that were of Alien origin.
Ummm..., yeah right.
Just wanted to add yet another perspective.
Ummm..., yeah right.
Just wanted to add yet another perspective.
I think the majority of Christians are open to the idea that the earth may be much older. I think what it comes down to for me is that it isn't worth my time to do a lot of studying on this particular issue. I did spend time on this subject some time ago and in the end I decided for me it didn't matter how God did it or when He did it. Too many other things to worry about.
Pako
Staff Emeritus
- 16,455
- NW Montana
- GTP-Pako
- GTP Pako
Come to Northern Montana or parts of Canada. Look around, surround yourself with the majesty of nature. It is in that environment that you can see, feel, and even touch God in his design. That's some of my hard evidence anyways. Come to my town and I will show you everything that God has created. As I look around, how could any of the awe and majestic magnificance be just a random chance that just happened to come into existance on the back of unrealistic probability that's too large to even comprehend? 
I don't know where many of you live, but I can only imagine that living in a concrete jungle would have it's affects of you, being surrounded by man made creation.
So yeah, that works for me.
I don't know where many of you live, but I can only imagine that living in a concrete jungle would have it's affects of you, being surrounded by man made creation.So yeah, that works for me.
- 5,842
- Forgotten Wing
I don't really want to argue this, but if I must I must. The fact is that there isn't enough evidence to prove either theory about how things happened in the past. And until we have a machine that can let us go back in time and see how it happened, I will believe my way of things and you can believe your way of things. I won't force my beliefs on you, and I expect you will honor my beliefs as well. However I have just one rebuttal to your statement about how it was "only the short-necked ones" in the sediment. Almost every land animal known to man including mankind themselves was found in this layer. Now, the question becomes what formed this layer. Many people believe it was a huge asteroid impact millions of years ago, and others believe it was a worldwide flood (or the Pangaea theory). But, we know from fact that clay, which is what makes up this layer, is formed underwater. This layer of sediment has been recognised around the world (it's where most of our dinosaur fossils are found). It is my belief that this huge layer wasn't formed gradually, but that the flood toppled mountains, kicked up the dust and wore away at it instantly. The muddy-water then settled over the forty-day period mentioned in the bible and hardened into rock after the water receded into the oceans on the 40th day. For more info on this stuff look up "catastrophism". It's interesting reading, but I must now stop arguing my point because I am very hungry and there is very little food in the house...
- 10,832
I see the same majesty and am just as awestruck, but do not think "God". Your evidence of God is my reason for not needing one.Originally posted by Pako
Come to Northern Montana or parts of Canada. Look around, surround yourself with the majesty of nature. It is in that environment that you can see, feel, and even touch God in his design. That's some of my hard evidence anyways. Come to my town and I will show you everything that God has created. As I look around, how could any of the awe and majestic magnificance be just a random chance that just happened to come into existance on the back of unrealistic probability that's too large to even comprehend?
So yeah, that works for me.
Belief. Nothing more.
- 3,194
yep,.. there's educated guessing and plain 'ol pullin it outta the rectum. A fine line even I cross on occassion.
But this line - Almost every land animal known to man including mankind themselves was found in this layer - is just flat out rediculous.
Pako
Staff Emeritus
- 16,455
- NW Montana
- GTP-Pako
- GTP Pako
Just curious....where does human emotion fall into the evolution puzzle? If anything, it goes against evolution. So why would emotions, in humans, ever need to be developed? Why are we given the ability to appreciate beauity and magnificant nature? Where did the human conscience come from and what is it's purpose of survival? Lots of questions, I know. I'd still like my other question answered, if it doesn't then that's cool to.
- 3,194
Everything has emotion,... it's not like we're special.
All we have over animals is an enhanced ability to trouble-shoot and problem solve. That came with the invention of the hand-axe. Once we figured that out,... we had much better access to meat, marrow, protein, which in turn helped our brains grow.
If you think that's all we have over the animals then I got news for ya. Monkeys have the ability to troubleshoot and solve a problem. Even crows have that ability.
I don't really have a big problem with the whole evolution thing. What I think is amusing is when people who don't believe in God try to make some distinction between man and beast. Other than our minds are a little more developed there is hardly any difference. So I guess we are simply beast. No better than the monkeys in the trees flinging crap at each other or the crow droping wallnuts infront of cars to crack the shell.
Pako
Staff Emeritus
- 16,455
- NW Montana
- GTP-Pako
- GTP Pako
So were not that special, eh? When was the last time you saw a animal look up at the clouds in appreciation, or look at a sunset in awe, or look at the millions of stars in the sky and ponder the existance of infinite possibilities? I think we, as a race, are very different from the rest of the mamals or any other creature for that matter.
Ok, don't buy that. Reasoning? Let's look at the T-Rex. They had plenty of access to meats, bone marrow, and proteins., yet their brain size was guessed to be that of a pea.
- 10,832
Complex emotions are an inevitable side effect of consciousness, of knowing right from wrong. They have no purpose, per se, beyond what is done with them. People who do not believe in god still have powerful emotions and ecstatic experiences. The birth of my son was paralyzingly beautiful and all I could do was stand there and cry.
It's silly to try to explain to a believer how one can have a meaningful existence without god. In the previous paragraph I started to willingly turn myself into a curiosity for the sake of argument. I'm sure you still don't understand, and will never experience the world as I do. But it doesn't matter a bit. It takes nothing from you or me, and whether it would benefit either of us to truly know what the other feels and thinks is debateable. What matters is respect. Put simply, I am happy for you that you are inspired and awestruck by the Montana wilderness. I am happy for you because I think I know what that's like and know it is good. If you and I stood on the same mountain, and looked at the same sunrise, we could assume the other knows what we're feeling. We could choose to smile and walk on, cherishing the earth and it's majesty, allowing words to remain humble and in their place, or have a debate about whether or not it is beautiful because of God. It only serves to divide. It is sad how human consciousness, who's "purpose" is dubious to begin with, can sever us from any possibility of understanding it.
For me Truth is in the things, not beyond or above them, but right there in the things themselves.
- 12,825
The quality of debate is astonishing here... All creatures have the ability to troubleshoot and solve problems.
Hungry? Eat.
Itchy? Scratch.
Sleepy? Sleep.
Your misinterpretation of things is just laughable. Do you have any sense for biology whatsoever?I don't really have a big problem with the whole evolution thing. What I think is amusing is when people who don't believe in God try to make some distinction between man and beast. Other than our minds are a little more developed there is hardly any difference. So I guess we are simply beast. No better than the monkeys in the trees flinging crap at each other or the crow droping wallnuts infront of cars to crack the shell.
- 3,194
Originally posted by DGB454
If you think that's all we have over the animals then I got news for ya. Monkeys have the ability to troubleshoot and solve a problem. Even crows have that ability.
I don't really have a big problem with the whole evolution thing. What I think is amusing is when people who don't believe in God try to make some distinction between man and beast. Other than our minds are a little more developed there is hardly any difference. So I guess we are simply beast. No better than the monkeys in the trees flinging crap at each other or the crow droping wallnuts infront of cars to crack the shell.
I've said it before and I'll say it again:
All living things are the same; came from the same source,... tree's, monkey's, humans, fish, bacteria, ect.... anything with DNA.
The problem with religion is that it forces the distruction of new ideas. Anything outside it's own spectrum (human comprehension) must be destroyed. Not litterally, but theologically erased from anything that doesnt coincide with the beliefs of the entity (god).
IF a god exists,... I feel 100% deep down that it doesnt see us any different than the cockaroach in your apartment. We are not special, we are not devine. We are mearly a grain of sand on the beach that is our universe.
It's the arogance of the religion that is holding man back from evolutionary dominance. I think it's comprehendable to live forever (can be discussed in further detail if need be), but the way religion effects our current system, I'll be suprised if we cure cancer this century. We already have the ability to cure things such as birth defects and diabetes,... but the f'n bible thumpers have a concience when it comes to removing UNFERTALIZED eggs from a woman,....
end rant........ to be continued
- 12,825
You're surely refering to the type of people who spend their days making protest banners instead of taking their children to mandatory vaccination clinics. And I must say I share your annoyance towards them -- but to think these people are holding back scientists in their progress is mad.
- 3,194
That's just being anal on your part,....... IMO.
Besides,... T-Rex was a scavenger and a strict carnavore, I think omnivores are the best candidates for evolution. Its damn near a proven part of evolution that we didnt start hyper(for lack of a better word) evolving until we had a balanced diet of meat and potatoes.
And ya,... I still think we're not special. Wanna know why staring at the stars has nothing to do with it? Cause my cat gets the same feeling when he stares at the TV for an hour straight.
- 3,194
So that makes us better than the animals, on a spiritual level? Nah.
- 3,194
See,.. thats the arogance of religion,.. right there,.. thanx for making my point for me.
When the aliens come down and put us all into slavery,.. and your the new ape/dolphin,... dont come cryin to me.
Similar threads
