God and his so called fairy tales

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Originally posted by Timmotheus
When the soveriegnty of the hujman race is at stake, a select few will not be able to halt the masses from doing what they believe is "right."
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Don't you mean doing what is necessary? Does not everything revolve around our survival? Is it conceivable that any member of any species would promote it's own destruction? Life lives of it's own accord. The same life that lives in a dog or in an amoeba lives in us. Life decides, indifferent to our wishes, through it's manifestations, of which we are one, and a powerful one at that. But there are forces more powerful than us, things for which our power (technology) is useless. Factor in the likelihood that our power will most certainly be our undoing, if we ever have one at all, and you have a nasty predicament that for many, requires religion to sort out.
 
Originally posted by Timmotheus
You didn't capitalize "him!" I call blasphemy! Time for an excommunication!

I didn't predict what the church was going to do in the future, I made an educated guess based on their past responses to similar situations, e.g. Galileo.
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Galileo was a more evolved species?

I get what you mean though. Who's to say what a few zealots might do?
There are some in every group or orgianzation that are extremist and don't necessarily reflect the group as a whole.
 
Originally posted by milefile
I think they are comparable. THe fact that they are more simple, as you pointed out, doesn't mace them as different as it may seem. The complex range of human emotion is, I think, a result of knowing right from wrong. We feel good when things are right, we feel bad when things are wrong. That's the complexity. For a dog it's simply a matter of base instinct and need, although some would argue dogs do know right from wrong.
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That's an interesting concept. So is it our emotional complexity that allows us to know right from wrong, or is it knowing right from wrong that has nurtured our complex emotions? How much of a dogs emotions are based on conditioning? How much of our human emotions are based on conditioning?

Example: Can it be possible to teach a child that pain and suffering is good/acceptable/feels good, and that love and compassion is bad/not acceptable/feels bad?

Surely we can teach a child that the color "red" is actually called "tree" and "dogs" are called "cows", but that is simply language association. What I am posing above is actually changing and altering the emotional definitions of a human. Possible? Why or why not?
 
Originally posted by Pako
That's an interesting concept. So is it our emotional complexity that allows us to know right from wrong, or is it knowing right from wrong that has nurtured our complex emotions? How much of a dogs emotions are based on conditioning? How much of our human emotions are based on conditioning?

Example: Can it be possible to teach a child that pain and suffering is good/acceptable/feels good, and that love and compassion is bad/not acceptable/feels bad?

Surely we can teach a child that the color "red" is actually called "tree" and "dogs" are called "cows", but that is simply language association. What I am posing above is actually changing and altering the emotional definitions of a human. Possible? Why or why not?
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Sure I guess it's possible because the brain develops through experience. There are some twisted people in the world who enjoy/need pain, most of whom have been victimized by long term abuse. You should've been a sadistic shrink. You could do all kinds of experiements and find out definitively. So far, science has been ethical enough to not try your ideas out.

I don't think it's possible or even useful to put either knowing right from wrong or emotions before the other. They work together and are part of the same thing.
 
Originally posted by milefile
Sure I guess it's possible because the brain develops through experience. There are some twisted people in the world who enjoy/need pain, most of whom have been victimized by long term abuse. You should've been a sadistic shrink. You could do all kinds of experiements and find out definitively. So far, science has been ethical enough to not try your ideas out.

I don't think it's possible or even useful to put either knowing right from wrong or emotions before the other. They work together and are part of the same thing.
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I guess my point being is that human emotions are not a learned mechanism, but rather just a part of our species programming. From birth, our emotions are our emotions. Take a young child that experiences something traumatic (parents get divorced). At such a young age, sadness, guilt, fear are probably all the emotions that the child feels but doesn't know how to identify them because he/she has never experienced it before. As a result of being confused about what the emotions mean, anger generally manifests itself as a result of not being able to identify with the other emotions.
 
Originally posted by Red Eye Racer
I've said it before and I'll say it again:

All living things are the same; came from the same source,... tree's, monkey's, humans, fish, bacteria, ect.... anything with DNA.

The problem with religion is that it forces the distruction of new ideas. Anything outside it's own spectrum (human comprehension) must be destroyed. Not litterally, but theologically erased from anything that doesnt coincide with the beliefs of the entity (god).

IF a god exists,... I feel 100% deep down that it doesnt see us any different than the cockaroach in your apartment. We are not special, we are not devine. We are mearly a grain of sand on the beach that is our universe.

It's the arogance of the religion that is holding man back from evolutionary dominance. I think it's comprehendable to live forever (can be discussed in further detail if need be), but the way religion effects our current system, I'll be suprised if we cure cancer this century. We already have the ability to cure things such as birth defects and diabetes,... but the f'n bible thumpers have a concience when it comes to removing UNFERTALIZED eggs from a woman,....

end rant........ to be continued
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At the risk of saying something that has already been said, I didn't read to the end. I'm also sorry that this has to be a gazillion pages back. Be patient.
As far as God not seeing humans as "special". I will tell you that I'm fairly sure that we are the only creatures on this planet with the capacity to truly worship.
As far as removing unfertilized eggs...I was listening to to WKJC, the Christian station here in Kansas City. They are trying to find people to "adopt" frozen embryos. That is conscience. Nothing like providing a home and family for an unborn child. How heinous. What are we Christians thinking? (heavy sarcasm).
 
Originally posted by milefile
I don't see how civilization is "defined" by society. Can you elablorate of that?

As far as another species being "superior" goes... I don't know that "superior" is a good word. Does it mean in every concievable way? Does it mean in brain power? Does it mean in evolutionary success?
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Civilization is in effect defined by the current society because any sentient society will se itself as the archetypical civilization. The Greeks thought so, the Romans thought so, and the Aztecs thought so. It's a typical pattern of human thought to consider onself, or at least the communty that one belongs to, as the forefront of society, that can never be truly surpassed. There may be a few things here or there that one would change, but, as a whole, humans consider their current society to be the peak of civilization.

As for superior, I left it open ended on purpose. That way, the adressee was forced to agree. Every human with even a miniscule amount of self esteem believes that they are superior to a canine in some way shape or form.

Don't you mean doing what is necessary? Does not everything revolve around our survival? Is it conceivable that any member of any species would promote it's own destruction? Life lives of it's own accord. The same life that lives in a dog or in an amoeba lives in us. Life decides, indifferent to our wishes, through it's manifestations, of which we are one, and a powerful one at that. But there are forces more powerful than us, things for which our power (technology) is useless. Factor in the likelihood that our power will most certainly be our undoing, if we ever have one at all, and you have a nasty predicament that for many, requires religion to sort out.
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Sovereignty is not directly related to destruction. Even if the human race is not the most powerful on the planet, they can still procreate. By that logic, the destruction of the other race is not "necessary," just "right."
 
Originally posted by Timmotheus


Sovereignty is not directly related to destruction. Even if the human race is not the most powerful on the planet, they can still procreate. By that logic, the destruction of the other race is not "necessary," just "right."
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I thought you were talking about the subjugation of the entire human race by a hypothetically superior species. How would "sovereignty" factor into that, if at all?
 
Originally posted by Gil
At the risk of saying something that has already been said, I didn't read to the end. I'm also sorry that this has to be a gazillion pages back. Be patient.
As far as God not seeing humans as "special". I will tell you that I'm fairly sure that we are the only creatures on this planet with the capacity to truly worship.
As far as removing unfertilized eggs...I was listening to to WKJC, the Christian station here in Kansas City. They are trying to find people to "adopt" frozen embryos. That is conscience. Nothing like providing a home and family for an unborn child. How heinous. What are we Christians thinking? (heavy sarcasm).
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Glad you brought that up. I was working towards that, slowly. :)

By means of scientific deduction though, just because something has the ability to do something, doesn't mean that it will do it...., or does it.

If humans have the capcity to worship God, then there must be a God to worship? If a fish has the capacity to swim them fish must swim? I don't know....show me an example in nature where this is NOT the case.

Monkeys have the ability to operate a rocket into space, but you don't see monkeys driving cars.
 
I believe there is a god up there. I used to pray when I was a kid and parts of my teenage life. Then, my relation with it kinda got dissipated. I've tried talking with him (praying), but sometimes I feel weird. I think he is not listening to me.
 
Wow, i cant belive theres a thread about this. well after some thinking, here it goes, i warn you its gonna be long, and i havent bothered to look at all the posts so if im saying something already posted or if i offend some ppl, dont take personal, and jus deal with it.

Being forced into catholicism through the act of baptism, in which i had no say what so ever, we never do, i find my self caught between three walls, one being, all orginized religions, two being scientific fact, and three my personal belief in karma (yea i believe in it, and you do me wrong, youll be done wrong, if if karma takes its sweet time, ill do it myself, im very impatient)

ONE:
all orginized religions to me are like political parties, they each think they are better than the other and compete for their cause, and have some sort internal agenda. (crusades, jihad, and what ever jews/hebrews do, im not that enlightend in that area.)

TWO: good ol science, cant prove the facts wrong, but you can distort them. the whole dinasour thing, come on, like ppl cared about digging for bones when they were busy spreading idealogy and conqoring nations. i would much rather take over nations that dig for bones, plus they wouldt have the technology to know what the big bones were. thats how mythologies probably got started, by accendently finding larger bones and not knowing where they came from.

THREE
karma works people, at least it has for me. but then again my life is full of ironies and coincidences that are too good to be true, but they are.

utimately i beleive there is a hiegher being that may be incontrol of things, or have some sort of influence, but you have to think about all the other things, the zodiac stuff (you know some of that stuff has happened to everyone when the readt thie horoscope), voodoo, time(i beleive this has happened before die too all my many countless accounts of deja vu) and free will.
i think everyone shouldnt worry about where we go when we die, if we really die at all.

if anyone wants to get in depth with me, fell free to email me or im me on AIM.

ps-what is the most riches organization in the world?
 
Okay, that means you were likely baptized as a baby.
I have issues with that. I believe that when a person is baptized for the remission of sins (Romans 6:4, Acts 2:38) A person has to be old enough and "enlightened" enough to know right from wrong, and be of an age when they can commit themselves to God.
Any younger than that are "innocents".
As for the other stuff you mentioned. I'm just too tired to address Karma, Voodoo, Astrolgy, and Witchcraft.
Except to say that I have many problems with them being "facts of life".
 
I have a really good, scientific phylosophy on DejaVu. If anyone would care to hear it, I will try to explain it to the best of my gramatical ability.
 
Originally posted by sn00pie
Here's a good site on Déjà Vu.
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that site confused me, so lets heat that theory of deja vu man.

heres my take, time is not liniar, and our consieceness is active in all times, so we might drift in and out of time frames like in dreams or sleep and then we retain some of it when we awake.
 
Ok, here's my take on DejaVu.

First we have to look at what makes up our conscience. Our environment stimulates our senses, our senses then cause chemical reactions in certain parts of our brain. Our Brain then, in simplistic terms, has three parts that makes up the NOW, SHORT TERM MEMORY, and LONG TERM MEMORY. Now when we experience something, trillions of stimulus is being processed in our brain along chemical Highways, this all happens so fast, that we experience no latency of reality. So lets get back conscience, and memories. For memories to develop, you have to:

1.) Experience it (consciences)
2.) It then becomes and entry into your short term memory where you can quickly recall the situation.
3.) Based on how many times you recall it in your short term memory, it can soon be logged as a long term memory.

So with that back ground information, in simplistic terms again, it is my theory and opinion that DejaVu is no more than just those chemicals reaching your short term memory before it hits your conciseness. As a result, when it finally does reach your consciousness, you also immediately recall the short-term memory, but you know it hasn't happened before in your reality because it isn't in your long term memory yet. So, the result of reality reaching your short term memory before your conscienceless, will result in DejaVu.

So that's my little theory and opinion. Your wires just get crossed. :)
 
Originally posted by Pako
Ok, here's my take on DejaVu.

First we have to look at what makes up our conscience. Our environment stimulates our senses, our senses then cause chemical reactions in certain parts of our brain. Our Brain then, in simplistic terms, has three parts that makes up the NOW, SHORT TERM MEMORY, and LONG TERM MEMORY. Now when we experience something, trillions of stimulus is being processed in our brain along chemical Highways, this all happens so fast, that we experience no latency of reality. So lets get back conscience, and memories. For memories to develop, you have to:

1.) Experience it (consciences)
2.) It then becomes and entry into your short term memory where you can quickly recall the situation.
3.) Based on how many times you recall it in your short term memory, it can soon be logged as a long term memory.

So with that back ground information, in simplistic terms again, it is my theory and opinion that DejaVu is no more than just those chemicals reaching your short term memory before it hits your conciseness. As a result, when it finally does reach your consciousness, you also immediately recall the short-term memory, but you know it hasn't happened before in your reality because it isn't in your long term memory yet. So, the result of reality reaching your short term memory before your conscienceless, will result in DejaVu.

So that's my little theory and opinion. Your wires just get crossed. :)
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hmmmm, interesting, puts into a whole new perspective.
 
holy crap the last time i was at gtplanet this post was still at 1 page. im so out of date i cant even make an argument on anything youve said. all i can say is i think god is like a security blanket. for those with a mind that can handle stress and everything bad that happens in the world can take this. they can handle the fact that there is no one to help them and theyre baisically on thier own. then there are the religious people. if they had ever been prooven wrong about the existance of god they would probably deny it as bs and go on believing. after all, ignorance is bliss. but if they do loose thier faith i dont think they could handle it. because they need god. they need the thought that thier is someone out thier that in the end will always be there for them. that even in life he doesnt help them, he will still reward them in the afterlife givin theyve liven a pure life. though i think that there are quite a lot of "religious" people in hell if there is one. if people didnt have god this world would be a lot worse place to be in. im not sure if there is a god. i actually hope thier is one. but i think religion is a good thing. i think its a real good thing. i think more people should follow it and follow it to the truth unlike these hypocrites. if more people were afraid of hell then this would be a better place. im trying to change my self. i used to be a real big athiest. but my gf's family is pretty religious. shes not too religious but she believes in god and she goes to church. and her family is pretty religious. they dont think she should be with someone that isnt religious. and they dont know im not. so im trying to change myself since ill probably be with her the rest of my life. but anyways. this is my argument. its probably been said already.
 
i agree and so does she. but i dont want her family to hate me. they like me now and its good. but i dont need any problems in her family. im not necissarily trying to change. just trying to get to where i can keep my opinion to myself.
 
Originally posted by SS69
this has probably already been a subject on this board and if it has and no one wants to respond then just delete it. i was just wondering what everyones opinion on god was. personally im not sure. i used to believe. when i was younger. but then i didnt beleive. because i saw so many facts prooving it wrong and hardly any prooving it right. now im just not sure. im accepting the fact that there may be some sort of god up there. but i dont think that current religions tell it right. besides i hate organized religion anyways. its caused more problems than its worth. i know this isnt the best source to be quoting, but chris rock in Dogma said it best when he said that religion should be an idea and not a belief. because ideas can be changed, but people have fought years trying to change beliefs and have gotten no where.
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I am beginning to think it is a whole fake. I am conflicted though. I know there must be a god there, but on the other side, I think religion are way messing it up.
 
Originally posted by gtavcfan
I was raised as a christian I never really cared about the religion and lost faith in god. So now I turn Satanist and I'm lovin' it. Don't plan on changing. www.churchofsatan.com
:bowdown: Satan
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I'll pray for you...., not because I pitty you or think that I am better than you in some way, but because I am to have compassion for all people.

Why would you want to worship a fallen angel? You might say to give you strength, power, ect...? I would think that the God that created the angel that you worship would be more powerful than your fallen angel.

Any thoughts?
 
Originally posted by Pako
Any thoughts?
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I think he's about 14, has just discovered heavy metal of the most outdated and simplistic kind, and he's looking to stir up some attention for himself.

There are some thoughts.
 
I was browsing and realized I have posted before. From a mid-believer to almost a non-existant one. Yes, I have changed that much. I believe in nothing.
 
I don't believe in nothing. I think there is plenty in which to believe. I just don't believe in anything supernatural.
 
I would believe in things that people dont believe. It is not that I want to do things which are exactly opposite from what normal people do, but I am more concerned on the spiritual and physical aspect.

Humanity is just on another one of its evolutionary stages. What i believe is that later on, humanity will be able to control and have more knowledge about their spirits.
 

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