gold license only online racing

[lunarwolf]

are you in favour of having an exclusive online lobby for players that have all gold licenses?

personally I wouldn't mind seeing a VIP lobby where you need to gold all licences before you can enter and race. ofc you would have regular lobbies where no such restrictions apply. the point isn't to punish, it's just to have more balanced races

I think this would help for better racing amongst those who take the game more seriously, since the license requirement will weed out bad or not committed drivers. as well you are more likely to have clean races with drivers that are at least capable of golding the licences which are attainable even for an average driver like myself, but can show commitment to the game. I know in GT5 there was a "race for real" option on lobbies, but some guys just don't read that type of info

my 2 cents

 

[eran0004]

(But then I suppose those lobbies would be perfect for replicating that Top Gear race in that Spanish ghost town)

 

[lunarwolf]

you are right the first few days lobby would be empty since players would need to get licences, but there are plenty of players that gold very quickly, so you would start seeing races available after a week or 2

anyway I doubt Sony have implemented such a feature, and if it would be something players would be open to, maybe Sony could include in a patch when many would have got all 60 gold licences

 

[ShiftingGears]

I don't think it would be effective, because the license tests don't accurately assess skills required for online racing. Whether a player is fast enough or not also has no bearing on whether they choose to drive dirty.

 

[Furinkazen]

No. Bad or slow drivers only get better by competing with better faster ones.

 

[Samus]

This has been brought up many times, having all gold on the license has no bearing on their actual racing talent and etiquette.

 

[eran0004]

Let's say that 10% of all players obtains a gold license. Out of these 10%, 50% are interested in using the gold lobbies (the others can't be bothered with it, for reasons I'm getting to soon). That's 5% of the total player base. Out of these, half of them are interested in road cars, 1/3rd is interested in racecars and the remaining 1/6th are interested in rallying.

Out of the road car players, half of them wants to do races in the 500-600 pp range. 1/3rd wants to do racing above 600 pp and 1/6th wants to do races below 500.

Out of the 500-600 pp group, half of them wants to use racing tyres, 1/3rd wants to use sports tyres and 1/6th wants to use comfort tyres.

Out of the racing tyres group, half of them wants to use ABS and traction control. 1/3rd wants to use ABS but no traction control and 1/6th wants to use no aids at all.

Out of the ABS + TC group, half of them wants to race on Nürburgring, 1/3rd of Mount Panorama (GT6, remember ) and 1/6th on Silverstone.

Out of the Nürburgring group, half of them wants one lap only, 1/3rd wants 2 laps and 1/6th wants even more.

Out of the one lap group, half wants to race during daylight, 1/3rd during night and 1/6th wants to race in the rain.

Etc, etc.

The end result is that although these lobbies will be full of gold licence players, they're rarely going to find a race that will suit their preferences. That's why the other half of the gold players chose to remain in the public lobbies, because that's where 90% of all players are and that's where you'll have the biggest chance of finding a room that will suit your taste.

For those who wants quality racing, the best option is - as always - to organize a race in advance, on these forums, or through the new community features.

 

[Johnnypenso]

This has been brought up many times, having all gold on the license has no bearing on their actual racing talent and etiquette.

This, and in fact, one could make the case for the opposite. The really super talented players are interested in racing for the most part, not boring license tests.

Now on the other hand, if you had a standardized test like the SLS AMG Nurb run and used that as a qualifying factor in entering the lobby by determining your "Online License" skill level, you would at least have some idea of the speed a driver is capable of, if not their skill at driving with others.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Let's say that 10% of all players obtains a gold license. Out of these 10%, 50% are interested in using the gold lobbies (the others can't be bothered with it, for reasons I'm getting to soon). That's 5% of the total player base. Out of these, half of them are interested in road cars, 1/3rd is interested in racecars and the remaining 1/6th are interested in rallying.

Out of the road car players, half of them wants to do races in the 500-600 pp range. 1/3rd wants to do racing above 600 pp and 1/6th wants to do races below 500.

Out of the 500-600 pp group, half of them wants to use racing tyres, 1/3rd wants to use sports tyres and 1/6th wants to use comfort tyres.

Out of the racing tyres group, half of them wants to use ABS and traction control. 1/3rd wants to use ABS but no traction control and 1/6th wants to use no aids at all.

Out of the ABS + TC group, half of them wants to race on Nürburgring, 1/3rd of Mount Panorama (GT6, remember ) and 1/6th on Silverstone.

Out of the Nürburgring group, half of them wants one lap only, 1/3rd wants 2 laps and 1/6th wants even more.

Out of the one lap group, half wants to race during daylight, 1/3rd during night and 1/6th wants to race in the rain.

Etc, etc.

The end result is that although these lobbies will be full of gold licence players, they're rarely going to find a race that will suit their preferences. That's why the other half of the gold players chose to remain in the public lobbies, because that's where 90% of all players are and that's where you'll have the biggest chance of finding a room that will suit your taste.

For those who wants quality racing, the best option is - as always - to organize a race in advance, on these forums, or through the new community features.

I disagree with your math and here's why. If PD did this, they won't, but if they did, most likely there would be a "Gold License" filter in finding lobbies so you don't have to wade through all the usual variety to find the gold lobbies. Even at today's level of participation and your 5% figure which is pure speculation, we'd still have 5,000 people per day in gold lobbies. At this point, regular hosts will develop that produce quality racing and their lobbies will be full and more and more good hosts will develop as time goes by. People don't want to sit in empty lobbies, so they will naturally begin to congregate in the lobbies that are full, relationships will develop, Clubs and Leagues will form...etc. It's all a completely natural process and given the fact that the average person with 40 golds is probably a more dedicated enthusiast, it'll likely make for better racing and more courteous gameplay.

 

[eran0004]

This has been brought up many times, having all gold on the license has no bearing on their actual racing talent and etiquette.

Especially the etiquette part. There's no correlation between skill and sportsmanship. My guess is that a gold only lobby would have about the same rate of success on that area as a lobby that randomly blocks 90% of all players trying to join.

I disagree with your math and here's why. If PD did this, they won't, but if they did, most likely there would be a "Gold License" filter in finding lobbies so you don't have to wade through all the usual variety to find the gold lobbies. Even at today's level of participation and your 5% figure which is pure speculation, we'd still have 5,000 people per day in gold lobbies. At this point, regular hosts will develop that produce quality racing and their lobbies will be full and more and more good hosts will develop as time goes by. People don't want to sit in empty lobbies, so they will naturally begin to congregate in the lobbies that are full, relationships will develop, Clubs and Leagues will form...etc. It's all a completely natural process and given the fact that the average person with 40 golds is probably a more dedicated enthusiast, it'll likely make for better racing and more courteous gameplay.

Wading through is not an issue, I'm simply assuming that it would be separate from the normal lobbies.

The end result remains the same, there will be more variation in the regular lobbies than in the gold lobbies and a bigger chance to find a race of your liking.

The only difference is that in the gold lobbies - if you happen to find a race that you'll be fine with - you will have a harder time actually winning. Racing etiquette will most likely be the same as in any other room. It's not the slower drivers that punts you off the road (for most of the race they will be well behind you), it's the ones who are about as fast as you are.

 

[Brainhulk]

make people do error free qualifying laps while having to pass 12 npc cars without touching them before each race

 

[Highlandor]

Racing AI gives you no racecraft skills at all - you will only get these by racing other people and learning from there/them.

We have many "fast" guys come to our series - "fast" doesn't mean racecraft, it just means fast.

If anything, the "fast" guys cause more problems, they are so used to winning, their ego's can't handle being told to slow down, give space to others and back off.

Seen this hundreds of times, both on GT5 and iRacing.

Also, "clean racing" is subjective and can vary alot - some people consider clean racing as zero contact, others see clean racing as being ok to make contact.

 

[lunarwolf]

well I have had cleaner races with AI then online in my experience. AI isn't perfect, far from it, but it is still better than a lot of humans that race online

 

[Highlandor]

well I have had cleaner races with AI then online in my experience. AI isn't perfect, far from it, but it is still better than a lot of humans that race online

You're not going to the right place to race GT5 online then..

There's a huge amount of series/websites that do ZERO contact racing..

 

[lunarwolf]

you're right it's my fault

 

[Highlandor]

you're right it's my fault

Yep

 

[Conquerer]

I think it's hard enough sometimes to find a room you want to play in already. Guaranteed a special lobby like this would nearly always be empty. No one else on my friends list has 60 golds; not that I actually play with any of them anyway.

The best way to do something like the OP is asking is to have matchmaking that groups players based on their recent results, but that as well is nowhere near perfect. I don't think there's a way to group players by their etiquette unfortunately... Unless there are records of penalties taken but even then it's hard to properly police that... Can't say how many times I've been rammed and come out with a penalty.

 

[tezster]

I like the general idea, but tweaked and expanded. Institute an online feedback system, where you can rate the quality of someone's driving. When setting up an online race/lobby, you can then add a filter to exclude/include people with a certain rating. "Bad" drivers can setup their own restriction-free races where people are free to play destruction derby.

 

[508920]

I think it's a good idea to exclude cheaters in online races, but I don't think this is the answer.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

I say no to the poll mostly because of the way it is worded. I would not want a lobby that requires all gold as I would not be able to race in it without taking the time to do all of those events first and if GT6 is anything like GT5 there was little point in doing them at all.

That said I would not be opposed to an option that allows us to require a specific type of license for entry. Must have IB or must have S license for example.

Personally I can get gold on all of the tests but I really don't want to take the time to do it and there have always been one or two tests that are a bit tricky to get gold on.

On GT4 there was at least one in the dirt that I struggled a bit with the prize for gold was not worth the effort it took to get the gold when a bronze would do.

 

[Jump_Ace]

Yes. However, getting gold licenses have become way way easier in the past few iterations and I don't think it would have any lasting effects.

Filtering by XP would have been one way, but IIRC they aren't implementing that in GT6. I'm glad because then I won't be kicked for being level 40 anymore.

Anyway, I don't see any sure-fire way to filter drivers without having some sort of online public reputation badge.
If I worked for PD, I would implement something like a Bronze/Silver/Gold level badge you earn by:

Number of wins (5% of reputation) - This can be a monthly and/or yearly standard to achieve. For example, win at least 10 races a month, or 100 races a year for the 'Gold' driver badge. This may also help give some incentive to keep racing online.

Number of online races (10%) - Perhaps, race in at least 25 races a month or 250 races a year for the 'Gold' badge.

How many driver aids you use(15%) - The fewer the better, if you use more than one aid, in say, over 10% of your races, then you get knocked down to the 'Silver' badge.

How often you go off-track without contact from another car (30%) - Just a set number of off-tracks knocks you down to 'Silver' or 'Bronze' badges.

How many penalties you get and accidents you cause (40%) - More severe and frequent penalties knock you down to 'Silver' or 'Bronze' badges.

Then just filter by B/S/G 👍 Of course it just might be easier said than done.


Jerome

 

[05XR8]

All you need to do is qualfy in the 108th percentile each race when joining a room. How about that?

 

[sk8er913]

If anything, the "fast" guys cause more problems, they are so used to winning, their ego's can't handle being told to slow down, give space to others and back off.

I notice this when I go online, I am fast, but i can't pass at all, so It takes me a long time, because the AI are so much narrower... but I am getting better.

 

[KM964]

I think they should do something like what Rockstar has done with GTA Online...have a "good sport" and "bad sport" system. If you are a good sport online, you will be put with other good sports, and you will get periodic rewards (credits). Ramming people, for example, will give you a bad sport rating, and if you get too many bad sport points, you will be put with bad sports for a set period of time. If you are a bad sport in GTAO, you have to wear a dunce hat for the duration of you being stuck with bad sports...something like a large decal would work for GT6.

Yes, I'll admit, Rockstar's system is flawed in a few ways, but if Polyphony were to adopt it and add the appopriate tweaks, it would be great in my opinion.

 

[Shlagem]

Even though i voted yes, i would take jermom's suggestion. IRacing does something similar and yes it is flawed but it would be a lot better than nothing.

Thinking.... what if PD decides to implement a statistics feature that counts your missbehavior one feature would be great if they can introduce to recomended car races a tickbox that the room host can use and it would calculate your average compared to your competitors ?!

But again winning or being fast is not a good way to judge your sportsmanship.
Enaugh said.

 

[Jump_Ace]

If anything, the "fast" guys cause more problems, they are so used to winning, their ego's can't handle being told to slow down, give space to others and back off.

Like anything, you can't make a blanket statement like that. There are always exceptions to the rule. In my experience, fast guys tend to be clean and patient. Not all of them mind you, oh no. But generally if you are fast it's because you know how to control the car, adapt to changes in the race quickly and more often than not just being close behind people is enough pressure for them to crack.


Jerome

 

[tinram]

Yes.

 

[Tornado]

If there was actually some correlation between the licence test completion and driver skill (nevermind etiquette), perhaps. So the tests themselves would need to be almost nothing like those of GT1-GT5.

 

[Highlandor]

Like anything, you can't make a blanket statement like that. There are always exceptions to the rule. In my experience, fast guys tend to be clean and patient. Not all of them mind you, oh no. But generally if you are fast it's because you know how to control the car, adapt to changes in the race quickly and more often than not just being close behind people is enough pressure for them to crack.
Jerome

Sorry, but my 3 years experience of hosting and running my own series leaves me with a different opinion.

Fast guys have a level of expectation (to be fast, or winning, or near the front), when they find they are being told to not do this and back off, it creates a "..does not compute..." scenario and alot of them can't handle it.

There are those that can and do adapt, but so many fast guys who have come to my series have simply not been able to put their ego's aside and back off/down and show patience.

I said the fast guys cause more problems - which is correct, the slower guys tend to be less competitive, therefore they dont mind being told that their car specs, car(s) or driving style/attitude is wrong and needs changing.

In % terms, its definately the fast guys who have a harder time to accept the above than the slower guys. It's not 100%, there are many good fast guys who come along and, in time, adapt and prove to be excellent racers, both in speed and contact/incidents.

But there is definately a stereotype of those who are fast in open lobbys, A spec, TTs/hot lapping who cannot adapt to no contact (and especially equalized performance) racing.

 

[Johnnypenso]

But there is definately a stereotype of those who are fast in open lobbys, A spec, TTs/hot lapping who cannot adapt to no contact (and especially equalized performance) racing.

My experience in Open Lobbies is the exact opposite. It's almost always carnage at the back and middle of the grid which is why I try to avoid rooms without qualifying on. Reverse grid in large shuffle lobbies are almost always terrible. The closer to the front you get, the more skilled, more courteous a driver tends to be, especially if you quickly establish you aren't going to be divebombing them or doing anything stupid.

If you aren't fast, generally it's because you don't have good car control, so you tend to be more erratic and unpredictable on the track. Even if you intend to race clean, sometimes you just can't, you panic in the pack or just don't have the fine control you need for close racing.

If you are fast, and the room doesn't have SRF, you usually have good car control, so being clean or dirty is a choice, and in my experience most truly fast drivers, in open lobbies and race series, tend to be very clean.