Goodbye bumper and chase cam

[Quiet_Storm]

^^^I think it will also depend on how big your screen is that you'll be using to play GT5 on. The videos so far has been very low quality, like you said, so it will be hard to read the dial. I'm just picturing it on a 46" Samsung 1080P LCD screen and it's making me drool! I really do hope PD gives us an option to turn off the steering wheel and hand animation so it'll just show the dash and the gauges.

 

[Tenacious D]

In GT HD, I got along with bumpercam fairly well, but there were times it just didn't cut it, and I switched to chase cam. I really miss roof cam in that demo.

I may start off in roof cam with Prologue, since that affords the best overall view of the car and the opponents around you. If cockpit cam is wonderful, then I'll switch to that, but roof cam does give you an excellent view of the road, and helps me see my racing line almost perfectly.

 

[Quiet_Storm]

What I really hope for in GT5 will be the ability to turn off the HUD when I'm in cockpit view. I don't really need to see the map or the little blue dots of where my opponents are, but that's just me. I think the ability to turn off the HUD will also help a lot in the cockpit view since there will be less distraction and would also add to the realism. Just the opponent listing on the side somewhere telling you how far ahead the guy infront is or how far behind someone is. Also have a lap time pop up when you've completed a lap and a number telling you what lap you're on for a few seconds then disappear.

 

[MGR]

But I hope noone here thinks that in car view isnt the most realistic camera ofr a racing simulation! (Not talking about wheel on hands, no wheel etc. )

Depends on your seating position relative to the display. For the vast majority of GT gamers the display is probably located somewhere around the bumper or front axle. The in-car view artificially puts you in the back seat - so as to be able to fit some of the dash and interior on the display.

As for head movement there are a couple of VR headsets available (example: http://www.3dvisor.com) and I have seem a video somewhere of Live for Speed where the driver could look left and right by twisting their head.

Probably work quite well if developed properly but the current displays built into them aren't very high resolution (eg 800x600).

 

[MGR]

VR Headset

Here's a reasonable video from GTR2 using the Z800.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkvhQtDp8Gc

 

[Laorin]

I've been after the interior view for some time now in GT, and now it's finally here I'm prepared to give it a full crack of the whip. I really want to make the switch from bumper cam to interior view, however when ever I've tried this before on other racing games, I've always found myself switching back to bumper cam.

Why I do this is not clear, even to me. Maybe it's because the interior view slows the game down or because the developer never gets the position quite right. I remember playing Test Drive Unlimited and thinking that it didn't feel right, and half the screen was blocked by the cars A pillar.

Fingers crossed PD get the interior view right, and I can happily make that switch I've been trying to make all these years.

What, you haven't seen the interior driving videos?

 

[Danny]

Wow, not much love for chasecam.

It's the only view I reckon I'll ever use.

 

[Driving Park]

I voted 2 or more because yes I'd love the interior view, but sometimes I'd probably want the bumper view for more technical places. And call me crazy, but every once in a while I like to use the chase cam so I can see the taillights.

:-)

 

[Daz555]

The in-car views in every game I have played absolutely suck. I find them totally unrealistic and they unaturally restrict your view of the road ahead and the world around you.

The only views I like are the ones where no car parts can be seen - this is because this is how it 'feels' to drive a real car. You are not aware of your cars interior when you drive in real life, but this is impossible to avoid when the cockpit is taking up 70% of the screen space in front of you. We need to separate what looks realistic to what feels realistic. Take a game like Pro Evo - sure it looks realistic, but it is nothing like football to play. It is more of a simulation of how football looks on TV.

I suppose the only way to have any true realism would be via a VR headset.

As for views in driving games (generally):

Chasecam - Never.
Cockpit - Never.
Bumper - Yes, as long as it is not too low to the road.
Bonnet - Yes, but I only use this (GTR, GTR2, TOCA etc) if the bumper view is too low.

My personal choice for view would be to have the camera in the drivers helmet position but have the cockpit and car totally transparent - this would be the closest in 'feeling' to the real thing in my opinion.

 

[buickgnx88]

i prefer to use the chase cam because i enjoy looking at the vehicle that im driving and plus i can see whats going on all around me and how much the vehicle is drifting, rolling, and stuff like that.

 

[daisho13]

The in-car views in every game I have played absolutely suck. I find them totally unrealistic and they unaturally restrict your view of the road ahead and the world around you.

The only views I like are the ones where no car parts can be seen - this is because this is how it 'feels' to drive a real car. You are not aware of your cars interior when you drive in real life, but this is impossible to avoid when the cockpit is taking up 70% of the screen space in front of you. We need to separate what looks realistic to what feels realistic. Take a game like Pro Evo - sure it looks realistic, but it is nothing like football to play. It is more of a simulation of how football looks on TV.

I suppose the only way to have any true realism would be via a VR headset.

As for views in driving games (generally):

Chasecam - Never.
Cockpit - Never.
Bumper - Yes, as long as it is not too low to the road.
Bonnet - Yes, but I only use this (GTR, GTR2, TOCA etc) if the bumper view is too low.

My personal choice for view would be to have the camera in the drivers helmet position but have the cockpit and car totally transparent - this would be the closest in 'feeling' to the real thing in my opinion.

That pretty much sums up my thoughts on the matter, although Venari raised a great point about being able to aim for the apex. Subtle head movements we make sub consciously enable our very clever brains to patch together data to allow us to ignore all the pillars in our cars when we are driving IRL.

 

[rovens]

Whilst i would love to use the in car view, i find them restrictive in that we cant move around and normally have poor vision to the sides. I'll use it when im driving by myself but for racing i'll probably use the bumper cam, same as GT4.

 

[ERacer]

The in-car views in every game I have played absolutely suck. I find them totally unrealistic and they unaturally restrict your view of the road ahead and the world around you.

The only views I like are the ones where no car parts can be seen - this is because this is how it 'feels' to drive a real car. You are not aware of your cars interior when you drive in real life, but this is impossible to avoid when the cockpit is taking up 70% of the screen space in front of you. We need to separate what looks realistic to what feels realistic. Take a game like Pro Evo - sure it looks realistic, but it is nothing like football to play. It is more of a simulation of how football looks on TV.

I suppose the only way to have any true realism would be via a VR headset.

As for views in driving games (generally):

Chasecam - Never.
Cockpit - Never.
Bumper - Yes, as long as it is not too low to the road.
Bonnet - Yes, but I only use this (GTR, GTR2, TOCA etc) if the bumper view is too low.

My personal choice for view would be to have the camera in the drivers helmet position but have the cockpit and car totally transparent - this would be the closest in 'feeling' to the real thing in my opinion.

Excellent 👍 Could not have said it any better! Camera should be in the eye-level position (or helmet position) with minimal on-screen distraction. Until the wheel-makers figure out how to incorporate instrumentation such as the fuel, oil, speedo & tachy meters on a wheel platform, I find these to be invaluable on the screen.

ERacer

 

[FoolKiller]

In the past I have been a 100% bumper cam guy. I tried the roof cam and just couldn't get into it. I preferred the bumper cam.

I have F1:CE and use the cockpit view exclusively there and on the DiRT demo have been exclusively using the cockpit view. It took me a bit to get used to it, but once I did I was fine. I think a lot of people might quickly give up on the cockpit view as it will require some adjustments. I imagine these will be the same people that complained that the DFP sucked because it lowered their lap times. My intentions are to become cockpit exclusive, but I said I don't know because until I have the game in my system I can't say for sure.

 

[Daz555]

I think a lot of people might quickly give up on the cockpit view as it will require some adjustments. I imagine these will be the same people that complained that the DFP sucked because it lowered their lap.

Not me. I love DFP, but I hate cockpit view.

 

[Tenacious D]

The only views I like are the ones where no car parts can be seen - this is because this is how it 'feels' to drive a real car. You are not aware of your cars interior when you drive in real life

Huh... this part totally slipped by me for some reason.

This must be your experience, but for me it's the opposite. I drive a Supra and to me, it's like sitting in the cockpit of an F-14 Tomcat. I'm completely aware that I'm enveloped in a substantial amount of aluminum and steel. My main grouch about cockpit view is that in most games, it's some nasty letterboxed view that as one member here put it "is like driving from the back seat." This is why I'm drawn to roofcam. It connects me with the car and gives me a great view of the road while providing me with an awesome substitute for peripheral vision.

The cockpit view in Prologue does look outstanding, but I won't know how good it is till I grab the wheel myself.

 

[ERacer]

I think what Daz555 inteded to mean is that you are not focused on the interior of your car when you drive in real life. Sure, I'm "aware" of the interior but I'm looking beyond that and focusing on the action ahead of me. I can only imagine if I were racing in real-life my focus would definitely be on the road, way ahead of me, and I would only glance at my gauges. But I certainly would not want them interfearing with my field of vision.

ERacer

 

[Tenacious D]

That's a different thing, but I definitely need to see my hood to judge where the footprint of my car is. That's the main problem I have with bumpercam, is that I'm never quite sure where my tires are landing, and I'm chewing too much grass. My hat's off to those who master it.

 

[ERacer]

That's a different thing, but I definitely need to see my hood to judge where the footprint of my car is. That's the main problem I have with bumpercam, is that I'm never quite sure where my tires are landing, and I'm chewing too much grass. My hat's off to those who master it.

Yep - I agree with you there - the footprint can be hard to judge. I race with the bumpercam view only and it does take some time to get used to, especially if you are racing several different cars.

I race in the GTPLMS long-race series and one of our tracks is New York. I kept misjudging the space between my front tires and the various barriers along the track. I then switched to the hood view which gave me a better perspective. However, I don't particularly like that view as it seems I'm sitting on top of the roof of my car.

Hope we do get a helmet view in GT5 with the option to remove the interior, but keep the important instruments visible at the bottom of the screen 👍

ERacer

 

[Novaz_nz]

When viewing the Ferrari at Suzuka video, there seems to be too much of the interior in view. It feels very claustrophobic just looking at it. If driving a real F430 felt that way, people wouldn't buy them!

When I am out driving a real car, it doesn't feel like I'm peeping through a letterbox. For example the windscreen slopes back to a point which is above my head, and out of view. I can't see a good portion of the roof unless I look up.

In the GT video I feel like I am sitting way back in the car, like somewhere in the back seat.

 

[1800SSS]

My only concern is when you are drifting, will the view shift to the side correctly?

 

[solinent]

I've used in-car in GTR, and it is 100x more fun. I will also use it in GT5, because I'm a graphics whore and because I love immersing myself. Even though I'll see two wheels, it makes no difference to me as the wheel is a controller. The wheel controls the on-screen wheel. The interior view is the only way for me, and I think it's the most realistic (limited view, viewed through glass, proper driving cockpit perspective)

Obviously the one problem is that you don't get a 360 degree panoramic view, but you can use the d-pad on the wheel to see at 8 different angles!

My only concern is when you are drifting, will the view shift to the side correctly?

I don't know if they even know what a look-to-apex feature is -- they seem like they don't pay very much attention to other games (well Yamauchi doesn't, maybe some other devs there do though, hopefully). It does make the experience more unique though.

 

[ranhammerR34]

*has been a chase cam guy for years.. but then after playing rFactor, uses the hood cam on that game* I hope they keep the chase cam because it will take me a while to get used to the cockpit! --- Randy

 

[GT40 MKII]

i'd personally use the chase view cause i drive better with it that way and i can keep a closer eye on the car and my competition without taking my eyes off the road. i can also judge my distances a heck of a lot better in chase cam than in the interior. ill be pissed if pd pulls out the chase cam

 

[isamu]

Do you play GT with a FF wheel? If so take note of where the steering wheel is located.
That's right, it's in your hands. Not 6 feet in front of you on the TV screen.

While it's all nice and pretty to display the dash and working gauges etc it is not the most realistic camera position reletive to you actual seating position in your cockpit/living room. The cockpit view effectivly plonks you in the back seat to fit all the detail of the dash and wheel onto your already limited TV screen.

I can't stand the 'head movement replication' used in some games. Yes, when racing in real life your head does move around due to g-forces etc - but your body also 'feels' these g-forces so your brain compensates for these movements and forces - and therefore you don't actually notice them. Trying to replicate these movements in a game doesn't make it more realistic - just irritating.

I just want to go on record and say this is the greatest post I have EVER read on gtplanet.net. To say that MGR hit the nail on the head is a massive understatement.

I could never understand why anyone who uses a steering wheel as their controller(ie 90% of the people here) would want to drive their games with a stupid interior cockpit view. That view is silly and extremely diminishes your FOV on the road. The reason the majority of games have a bumper cam view is because it's simply the best view there is to drive to. Sitting in your racing seat/chair with a Driving Force/Pro/G25/whatever and seeing nothing but the road itself is *THE* most immersive and realistic experience you can attain whilst driving....PERIOD! Why anyone would want to look at their own steering wheel, as well as the one on the screen, is beyond me.

 

[barryl85]

I like chase cam as i like to see my car! buti set my best times on the bumper cam and it also feels like your going faster!! Other reasons for changing view is to hear the car! roof cam was good for letting you hear the engine! (not that the cars sound good in GT but some have blow off valves and it makes it woth while)!

 

[buickgnx88]

I would have to say the most realistic view for using a steering wheel controller is having a hood cam that sits right by the cowl (so you see the whole hood) because thats what you see alot while driving a real car.

 

[RedBaron]

It has to be fully customizable in viewpoint position and angle of view. That would be the solution where all will be satisfied. I would like to try all those positions, only with hood or further in the interior, preffering wide angle and decide what to use. Now in GT4 I use the roof camera, but neither roof camera nor bumper cam are in realistic height, only driver's viewpoint is.

 

[barryl85]

I think its cool that you get a cockpit view but it doesnt make a game feel any more realistic (have to admit though even though all you could see was pure a-pillar in TDU i used to drive about in cockpit view) - but i'm actually looking forward to the new GT5 cockpit view and maybe it will!!

 

[amar212]

Incar should be ONLY available POW in-game. You should be able to alter your seating position, but there should be a great "goodbye" to all other cams for driving.

Point: all would have to learn to drive both left-right cars, all tracks should be mastered form begging (it is very different feel to drive from left-right position, then from centered - try TOCA or PGR for example), and there would be no advantage for drivers who ted to drive even from the obscure roof-cam.

As to above, I hope there will be an option to lock the cam in multiplayer modes, as seen in PGR - so that nobody can gain any advantage from usage of different POW. Or to say it in different words: to have us all in the same bullholle.