Got £38,000?...Buy an Alfa 4C
- Thread starter Neal
- 380 comments
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- 1,367
- Wilmslow, Cheshire
- SVPSkins
it's an old time joke =) just go with it =)
- 27,219
- United Kingdom
Right sentiment, wrong explanation. Your hands move further to turn a big steering wheel than they do a smaller one - that's why people fit smaller wheels to give the impression of quicker responses.
However, small wheels come at the expense of leverage. This leverage is why classic cars often have large wheels - it helps mitigate the lack of power steering. That and gearing, as older vehicles tend to have a greater number of turns lock-to-lock.
The reason the Alfa can get away with a small-ish wheel is probably gearing-related, but mainly a benefit of the mid-engined layout and light kerb weight. With little weight over the front wheels, power steering isn't necessary. Ditto the Lotus Elise and even early Honda NSXs, neither of which have especially large steering wheels but benefit from low steering effort thanks to the light front end.
- 12,389
- Betelgeuse
- Beeblebrox_237
As HFS, the size of the wheel has no effect on the number of turns to lock. Bigger wheels merely give more leverage, which was necessary in older cars with no power steering. Many of them actually had quite slow racks, so you had to move your hands a huge distance to turn.
- 1,367
- Wilmslow, Cheshire
- SVPSkins
Nah hun, i drive a real car =)
- 1,367
- Wilmslow, Cheshire
- SVPSkins
i highly doubt that, since the new MX5's not available till summer. Think we will all have to wait till GT7 for the new cars, such as the hellcat, 4C and 2015 MX5. i really dont see PD adding any newer cars to GT6.
- 8,642
- London
- GTP_Stotty
Read a couple of roads tests of the 4C recently, and in one, the car fitted with the uprated suspension/wheels/rear ARB package got thoroughly panned... I can't remember the exact quote, but the summary was it was dangerously unstable at speed on typical British roads. Test of the stock car (smaller wheels, softer suspension, no ARB) was more complimentary.
All tests have called out the quality of the interior - 'like a cheap French hatchback'.
Still a pretty thing.
All tests have called out the quality of the interior - 'like a cheap French hatchback'.
Still a pretty thing.
- 12,389
- Betelgeuse
- Beeblebrox_237
Only an Alfa Romeo could get such awful reviews and still be so desirable.
- 9,232
- Valongo
- Hcclipper
I believe that CAR Magazine said that. Actually, they went as far as to say you would be better off with a "Confort spec" 4C, to avoid the sportier setting at all costs.
Welcome to Alfa logic, I guess...
- 8,642
- London
- GTP_Stotty
Yes, it was CAR magazines car of the year article 👍
They had a mini test of the stock version in the same issue - almost like reviews of 2 completely different cars when it came to how they drove.
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Interesting car, the 4C... You're effectively paying a £10-15k premium for the carbon tub. The rest of the car is upper 20's at best.
- 9,232
- Valongo
- Hcclipper
- 27,219
- United Kingdom
To be fair, £10-15k for the carbon doesn't seem such bad value. A basic Elise is already upper 20s and doesn't have nearly the power nor the technology of the Alfa. Give an Elise a carbon tub and it'd probably cost similar.
I go hot and cold on the 4C. For the purpose it's designed, I think it falls short, and it's obviously compromised as a daily driver. But I'm led to believe it's gone down much better in mainland Europe and in the States, where fun, twisty roads tend to be a bit smoother. I reckon the Spider could be interesting, if only because an open top does add an extra dimension to cars like that and helps you overlook things that might become a bit much when you're crammed into a coupe.
At the same time, I find some things really off-putting. The lights on UK cars are nasty, the steering wheel is hideous and I'm not totally sold on the design as a whole.
- 8,642
- London
- GTP_Stotty
Pretty much agree with all of that 👍
- 5,065
- Fort Worth
- That_sneaky_azN
I have to ask, what are the panel gaps everyone almost always talks about regarding the 4C in other car websites?
- 6,041
- Puget Sound
- Crash852
Yup, and I'm torn. On one hand, I love how it looks (especially with the original headlights that will come with the US cars) and I love the flair that it seems to have, but the awful reviews really dampen my enthusiasm to the point where I start questioning if a Cayman or even an Elise would be a better choice.
For a carbon chassis car, the 4C is a good value. I doubt they are making much money off each one sold. Not even considering the raw material costs (they're using prepreg, apparently!), let alone labor, for them to tool up for carbon just for this would make this car incredibly expensive, though I suppose they are lucky that they have access to Maserati's composite manufacturing facilities, which should help them keep costs down.
Actually come to think of it, I wonder if Ferrari, Maserati and now the 4C share some or all of the composite manufacturing facilities? As they all fall under the Fiat-Chrysler umbrella, and they are all low volume, I can't imagine each brand having their own set of contaminate controlled areas/clean rooms, layup machines, autoclaves, and post-cure composite manufacturing machines.
The 4C is supposed to be the middle between the Elise and a Cayman/Boxster, except, according to all the reviews that I've seen, it does neither particularly well. Shame really, as I think if the Alfa wasn't as compromised, then it wouldn't be relegated to being the car in that bunch that looks good but is otherwise just merely good enough. Between the 3 cars, the Porsche is probably the best car, but its looks do nothing for me, and they are so boringly common, at least around where I live.
- 27,219
- United Kingdom
I do wonder what the aftermarket can do for it. I know that shouldn't be necessary, but it does seem worth it to get the car to be how it should have been in the first place.
From what I've heard it takes very little to get, for example, an old 156 handling absolutely brilliantly - they were under-damped from the factory but with quality suspension they're transformed.
The 4C's carbon tub can't be too bad a basis for something that's both pliant and full of feedback. Maybe they should run one past Lotus...
- 8,642
- London
- GTP_Stotty
One of the quotes from the CAR review went something along the lines of... 'the 4C costs as much as the Caymen GTS, which is ridiculous'. Fairly clear that they didn't see the 4C offering value for money as an overall proposition.
Beyond the point that this is a £40k+++ car and shouldn't need fundamental fixes...
The key challenge with aftermarket improvements will be the cost - it's such a small volume car that pretty much everything would need to be custom made... I'd be very nervous about the amount of testing any aftermarket upgrades had given the number of cars out there... did they get the spring rates and travel right? did they get the bound/rebound rate ranges right?
Maybe just stick with the stock suspension and small wheels which doesn't get fantastic reviews, but does get decent ones
Beyond the point that this is a £40k+++ car and shouldn't need fundamental fixes...
The key challenge with aftermarket improvements will be the cost - it's such a small volume car that pretty much everything would need to be custom made... I'd be very nervous about the amount of testing any aftermarket upgrades had given the number of cars out there... did they get the spring rates and travel right? did they get the bound/rebound rate ranges right?
Maybe just stick with the stock suspension and small wheels which doesn't get fantastic reviews, but does get decent ones
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