[Gran Turismo 5 @ E3 2010] (SEE POST 1!: New Vids, Pics, Interviews!)

  • Thread starter SrRd RacinG
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Can you make it like doors and bumper falling off when damaged?Or life-like tuning when I can attach spoiler to exact right location?Or it has different shaders at different materials to reflect the light correctly?Maybe dashboard is working?Or physics of this car is life-like?Or it sounds like real?
(i mean these a bunch of different stuff, and we all know it)

In the gaming industry there are 4 categories of artists

3dartist
Rig artist
Animator
programmer

1- 3d artist makes only the models
2- Rig artist prepares the model for animation by aplying joints to every piece that will be animated
3- The animator apply animation on the rigged model
4- Programmer makes all the physics (Driving-Damage-collusion)
 
^^^ Ok!
I don't want to miff you.I mean just that GT5 cars are made specially for game.Not for static slideshows and because of this it takes so much time.especially for what PD want to do.
 
But was there not a vid that showed two rally cars racing on a premium track at night? I think it was on Tuscany (if its spelled correctly).
Was that track marked as Premium? My theory is that all tracks can have both Standard and Premium mode. Once a track is in Premium mode, only Premium cars can race. When that same track is in Standard mode all car types (so both Premium and Standard) can race at the same time, but without the features unique to Premium cars.
 
Was that track marked as Premium? My theory is that all tracks can have both Standard and Premium mode. Once a track is in Premium mode, only Premium cars can race. When that same track is in Standard mode all car types (so both Premium and Standard) can race at the same time, but without the features unique to Premium cars.

I second that, premium type damage will be enabled for races featuring only premium cars. Logical. When you're racing in a "mixed" grid, damage is the same for all cars, Standard type. I fail to see any problem on it, seems reasonable to me.
 
Sorry typo, my model has 332k poly.

also it depends on the car.

but for a game engine, the less poly to make it look real the more difficult it takes to make...

My Bugatti Type 35 looks pretty much identical to the real Type 35.

im sure PD's 3d artist are way better than me...

here is my mesh, look at the top left corner were it says Tris(thats polycounts) without the wheels

1ruv74.jpg

Not to knock on you, but well done, you can model a fairly simple car in one day, with a dashboard that consists of a plank of wood and some dials. No wonder you finished it in one day.
While the design of the Bugatti is in no way boring - it is relatively simple - the dashboard probably took you about 15 minutes to create because its a box, and the dials aren't hard to create either. There are no wires, no smooth flowing lines inset with hard corners and fascias. not to mention the inside of doors on modern cars are fairly complex. Also, i am sure you have not gone to the extent of modelling the stitching on the seats or the steering wheel. that is the level of detail the premium cars have.

furthermore, as someone who also has experience with 3d modelling, I don't know what level of subdivision you have going on here. it is pretty easy to inflate tri numbers by cranking up the subdivs on even super low poly models. Further more, we don't know whether the 500k polygon figure is in terms of tri's or quad's so the credibility of your point is called further into question.

While i am sure the PD artists are exceptionally talented, they not only have to model but then have to rig the cars. Now while I'm sure they have tools for this to make it more streamlines but that fact that you can model a car in one day is in no way a reflection of how quickly a car can be churned out. The creation of a premium car involves more than just modelling. The car you modelled is useless to use in a game in its current form. It has not been rigged, the sounds for the car have not been recorded, its characteristics have not been assigned, the cars handling then needs to be balanced to ensure that it is true to life.

I cannot believe that you think you can strut in here with some average looking model that you made in one day and even begin to think that is all that is involved in the production pipeline of a premium car, or even intimate that just because you can do it in one day, PD should be able to also. Now you aren't stupid and know what goes into making a premium car. So why would you even bother to make such a naive and ignorant suggestion?
 

That's really awesome. but in 1 day ? :crazy: Do you live in Groenland ? :)
Really amazing.

I work 3D too but only for maping and i dont work scripting. I cant make a car, but i can make circuit but not in one day. in 4 months fully détailled sure.
 
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Was that track marked as Premium? My theory is that all tracks can have both Standard and Premium mode. Once a track is in Premium mode, only Premium cars can race. When that same track is in Standard mode all car types (so both Premium and Standard) can race at the same time, but without the features unique to Premium cars.

Ok I see what your getting at. Makes sense.
I guess will have to see how the setup the whole standard/premium system.
 
Hi, nice to meet you all. I've played GT5 Prologue for a while now, and I love it (Even though I drive like I'm playing Out Run). If it had been announced that GT5 was to be exactly the same as GT5:P, but with a few more tracks and cars, I'd still buy it. Just think, it'll be on shop shelves beside "Need for Spade" and "Medal Of Honour 7" or whatever. It'll cost the same as those other titles. Honestly, even if you don't preorder GT5, when you walk into a shop to buy a game, and see it beside its competitors, which will you pick up?

I think it's going to be the little things that immerse me. Like in one of the E3 clips, I saw that car plough through a line of cones, and they flew everywhere. (Brought me right back to my days playing Chase HQ). Or the clouds of dust billowing rather than appearing and dissipating. To me, those things have more impact than a skidmark that nobody's going to notice until they see it from above in a replay.

Of course, the only truly important missing feature is furry dice. How many GTP regulars who own a real Enzo don't have furry dice hanging in the windscreen? Nobody, I bet. ;)
 
Not to knock on you, but well done, you can model a fairly simple car in one day, with a dashboard that consists of a plank of wood and some dials. No wonder you finished it in one day.
While the design of the Bugatti is in no way boring - it is relatively simple - the dashboard probably took you about 15 minutes to create because its a box, and the dials aren't hard to create either. There are no wires, no smooth flowing lines inset with hard corners and fascias. not to mention the inside of doors on modern cars are fairly complex. Also, i am sure you have not gone to the extent of modelling the stitching on the seats or the steering wheel. that is the level of detail the premium cars have.

furthermore, as someone who also has experience with 3d modelling, I don't know what level of subdivision you have going on here. it is pretty easy to inflate tri numbers by cranking up the subdivs on even super low poly models. Further more, we don't know whether the 500k polygon figure is in terms of tri's or quad's so the credibility of your point is called further into question.

While i am sure the PD artists are exceptionally talented, they not only have to model but then have to rig the cars. Now while I'm sure they have tools for this to make it more streamlines but that fact that you can model a car in one day is in no way a reflection of how quickly a car can be churned out. The creation of a premium car involves more than just modelling. The car you modelled is useless to use in a game in its current form. It has not been rigged, the sounds for the car have not been recorded, its characteristics have not been assigned, the cars handling then needs to be balanced to ensure that it is true to life.

I cannot believe that you think you can strut in here with some average looking model that you made in one day and even begin to think that is all that is involved in the production pipeline of a premium car, or even intimate that just because you can do it in one day, PD should be able to also. Now you aren't stupid and know what goes into making a premium car. So why would you even bother to make such a naive and ignorant suggestion?


First of, see the 3 links i posted,
and a 3d artist dose not also make the Rig, animation and other stuff, that job is for the Rigger, animator and Programmer... Looking at the gameplay videos, they have their AI, collusion, driving physics script improved and ready to be used,

PD's 3d artist will only need to rebuild the cars from GT4 (they don't need to make these cars look like the premium modes).

i also work with low poly, normal and diffuse maps all my work is ready to be rigged and animated....
 
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Sorry I can't find them anymore! 💡
They were on news page in different categories i.e. NASCAR, DAY/NIGHT TRANSITION, MUSCLE CARS, PHOTO TRAVEL, TRACKS, and GT5 vs REAL.6 zipped archives, 8.3MP each = 112MB.I have them on my HDD.

Well you have them, and we all want them. Could you upload them in a .zip pack?

I'd recommend mediafire.com, quick uploading and downloading, and no captcha.

Please. If you do, you are awesome.
 
Sorry typo, my model has 332k poly.

also it depends on the car.

but for a game engine, the less poly to make it look real the more difficult it takes to make...

My Bugatti Type 35 looks pretty much identical to the real Type 35.

im sure PD's 3d artist are way better than me...

here is my mesh, look at the top left corner were it says Tris(thats polycounts) without the wheels

1ruv74.jpg

What did you base the model on? A picture? A toy car? What was your source?
 
Sorry I can't find them anymore! 💡
They were on news page in different categories i.e. NASCAR, DAY/NIGHT TRANSITION, MUSCLE CARS, PHOTO TRAVEL, TRACKS, and GT5 vs REAL.6 zipped archives, 8.3MP each = 112MB.I have them on my HDD.

I think I found them alucard0712 (thanks for sharing)

http://www.gran-turismo.com/jp/products/gt5/gallery/d9388.html
http://www.gran-turismo.com/jp/products/gt5/gallery/d9389.html
http://www.gran-turismo.com/jp/products/gt5/gallery/d9390.html
http://www.gran-turismo.com/jp/products/gt5/gallery/d9391.html
http://www.gran-turismo.com/jp/products/gt5/gallery/d9392.html
 

Is this what you mean? If so then this is just more links to your render. I want to know what you based it on, not the finished work. Also there is an rx7 in that same collection, how long did that take and how many polys?
 
Is this what you mean? If so then this is just more links to your render. I want to know what you based it on, not the finished work. Also there is an rx7 in that same collection, how long did that take and how many polys?

Yes these are my links.... No that rx7 is not made by me, its in my favorites.

anyways, im not bashing PD, i just want the upscaled GT4 cars to be rebuild, at least half of them 400 cars with decent interiors and cockpit view just like some cars from Prologue. :)
 
Well, I officially got 🤬 off reading some of the comments in here. I should probably walk away, but "someone" is wrong. ;)
Anyway,

Numbers
(totally ripped from Wikipedia):

Game...Cars............Tracks
GT........178..............11
GT2......650...............27
GT3......180+.............34
GT4......722...............51
GTPSP...830..............72
GT5......200+ / 800+...20 / 70

So, how many of you would rather the game had only the 200+ premium cars? What about circuits (we still don't know what premium means here; my guess is it's linked to the "track editor" - or layout editor, as I've come to believe.)

The point is, PD have avoided the problem GT3 had in seriously downscaling the choice of cars from GT2 (which in some ways still has not been recovered) by including them "for free" as a "standard" port...


Customisation?

Now, we don't have the foggiest idea what was required to port these assets (models, textures, physics data, upgrades, sounds, etc.) from GT4 engine spec. to the (all-new) GT5 engine. Given the engines are different, especially with respect to the way the suspension is handled, and that we know the standard cars will have dents, scratches, dirt etc., it's possible some light re-touching of the models and "rigging" was performed. During this time, it may have been possible to re-jig the models into their component parts, with the appropriate naming conventions of the new engine etc., thus allowing for "customization", at least at a basic level (depending on how customisation will actually work - I hope they don't "brute-force" it and have separate models of the same wing for each car...)

Now, all this means that it is a simple case of dropping in new meshes with the correct names and voilá! Premiumified standard cars, with little extra faffing required, except telling the game to ignore the on-disc meshes for this car.
Naturally, this would best be covered by DLC.


DownLoadable Content

Assuming a full price for GT6 of $60 (where the rest of the cars would assumedly be up to scratch, plus some more), the remaining cars could be premiumified for a total of much less than 8 cents each. Round that up to 10 cents (100 cars for ten bucks - not bad!) That way, you only get (= pay for) what you care about. Clearly, this has much bigger value if the standard cars cannot be customised. Similarly for the tracks, assuming there is an issue with standard vs. premium.

Then, of course, there's the Collector's Edition (see Amar's winds...), assuming that any DLC to this effect (i.e. Premiumifying) would actually be free for owners thereof.

My justification of the price comes from the fact that GT3 only had the new cars; we had to wait until GT4 to get most of the old (GT2) cars back, plus some others. GT5 + DLC could avoid this issue, for those that actually care so much to the point of repeatedly complaining on a message board. :dopey:


New Platform -> New Engine

It might sound obvious, but a game is not its assets. GT5 would play just the same if the car models were replaced with ones of mushrooms, or old biddies. (Alright, the experience would be different, but functionally, it's the same.)

It's clearly taken a lot of effort to include some new features, as provided by the engine and its ancillaries. I.e. visual effects, online functionality, photomode improvements, physics, damage, "customization", Face-tracking, Native 3D etc. etc. etc.
PD have not just been sat around modeling cars, getting bored and simply importing the rest. This game (that is, not just its assets) has taken a lot of effort and money to produce; hence complaining that the ported models have wasted their time is at best naïve, idiotic at worst.


Summary

Yes, it's quite possible to feel "betrayed" by this "sudden" revelation of just what the standard cars are. However, we've known about the existence of standard vs. premium since before TGS last year.
However, it is just a game (hey, I'm as hardcore as they get - I still play 10-year old PC sims; oh and I don't really rate the cockpit view for driving feel in GT5:P :crazy: ;))

Oh and vacuum cleaners? If I keep reading that, I'll probably have to throw together a demonstration of what a car would sound like with a vacuum cleaner for an engine. :lol:

One last thing, the static pictures of the standard cars do not do them justice. They really do look that much better in motion, since the textures mask some of the underlying mesh detail, that has clearly been improved over the base GT4 - albeit by some basic smoothing algorithm - the headlights are a key area where this is very apparent.


Done.
 
Thanks for those zip files!
BTW indeed, the standard cars look way much better in motion!
I'm happy! And I really didn't expect the day-night transition to be so perfect
 
Thanks for those zip files!
BTW indeed, the standard cars look way much better in motion!
I'm happy! And I really didn't expect the day-night transition to be so perfect

Ditto! Now we just need some of the standard cars :lol:

And, ditto for the day / night cycle. Yet another "pointless" feature that is superbly executed! :dopey:
 
Thanks for those zip files!
BTW indeed, the standard cars look way much better in motion!
I'm happy! And I really didn't expect the day-night transition to be so perfect

I am happy too, I am much more than that to be honest.

I really cannot understand why so many people here are complaining about this and that. I really have no words for that, I know it's a forum with pros/conts opinion but guys.... we are going to own one of the best video-games (is it still a game?) ever created!

EDIT: Just to avoid misunderstanding.
My comment on people complaints have nothing to to with recent posts... It was just a general thought on the posts I saw on the forum.
 
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I know why PD do what they do its the one up man ship, if PD can put in features that make you say 'wow' people will be more impressed by the 'wow' features than say 1000 cars with interiors. PD is all about pushing the boundaries and that is what they have done.

They do it so if you did the pros and cons between GT5 and other racing games GT5 would win as it has lots of features.
 
Great post Griffith500 👍 I still believe standards will have interior view, thats just my opinion. If they don't who cares we still have the best looking 200 cars in any game. I am also grateful we also get to race those 800 standard cars. I read how Kaz said for them to do every car like the premiums it would of took a very long time. He also stated how the 200 premium cars was a huge accomplishment.
 
Great post Griffith500 👍 I still believe standards will have interior view, thats just my opinion. If they don't who cares we still have the best looking 200 cars in any game. I am also grateful we also get to race those 800 standard cars. I read how Kaz said for them to do every car like the premiums it would of took a very long time. He also stated how the 200 premium cars was a huge accomplishment.

Not after watching that video of standard cars, those things look like Bleemcast GT2 cars. Yes I had it! GT5 was built for the premium cars, those standards were added as homage, padding, boredom, cover up the fact that they bit off more than they could chew. Only way to rectify this is with DLC, those ugly standard cars just won't cut it on these HD definition backgrounds. I'm still reeling after watching that horrible standard car video...I wonder how bad the backlash will be. Imagine if they showed that at E3, man they would get laughed off the stage and Kaz would probably have hung himself. lol
 
Not after watching that video of standard cars, those things look like Bleemcast GT2 cars. Yes I had it! GT5 was built for the premium cars, those standards were added as homage, padding, boredom, cover up the fact that they bit off more than they could chew. Only way to rectify this is with DLC, those ugly standard cars just won't cut it on these HD definition backgrounds. I'm still reeling after watching that horrible standard car video...I wonder how bad the backlash will be. Imagine if they showed that at E3, man they would get laughed off the stage and Kaz would probably have hung himself. lol

Thats cool bro i respect your opinion, however those standard cars dont look bad at all in my opinion, definatly not on the level with the premium cars but the way some people are making makes it seem they are crap. Also with 4 months they can prob polish it up even more. Im ready for Nov2 👍
 
Model wise I don't think they look too bad, but there is something weird with the lighting on them, they are no where near as reflective as the premium cars, they almost look like plastercine?!
 
Not after watching that video of standard cars, those things look like Bleemcast GT2 cars. Yes I had it! GT5 was built for the premium cars, those standards were added as homage, padding, boredom, cover up the fact that they bit off more than they could chew. Only way to rectify this is with DLC, those ugly standard cars just won't cut it on these HD definition backgrounds. I'm still reeling after watching that horrible standard car video...I wonder how bad the backlash will be. Imagine if they showed that at E3, man they would get laughed off the stage and Kaz would probably have hung himself. lol

Don't take this part personally, but would you rather the game came as advertised, only minus the standard cars? There's no changing what's happened, so it's probably best to get over it!

Homage, fine; Padding, probably; boredom, eh? cover-up ... ??
Kazu himself admitted that the premiums are probably better suited to the next generation of consoles - is it still a cover-up, then? Stop with your sensationalism, please - you're sounding like a ten-a-penny journalist now :rolleyes:

Oh, and 🤬 the backlash! :lol:
I doubt he would have been laughed off the stage - I saw some FAIL moments (at least in my mind) that still got an inanely enthusiastic applause... Different strokes, and all that.



___________________
EDIT:
How did I miss that pic of the main menu? Looks good! Especially like the idea of "practice" as a separate mode, almost; and it looks as though the tuning is all under one roof, together with wheels, wings (assuming these two return from GT4), oil change and car wash!
 
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Not after watching that video of standard cars, those things look like Bleemcast GT2 cars. Yes I had it! GT5 was built for the premium cars, those standards were added as homage, padding, boredom, cover up the fact that they bit off more than they could chew. Only way to rectify this is with DLC, those ugly standard cars just won't cut it on these HD definition backgrounds. I'm still reeling after watching that horrible standard car video...I wonder how bad the backlash will be. Imagine if they showed that at E3, man they would get laughed off the stage and Kaz would probably have hung himself. lol

bleemcast-gt2-review4.jpg


mr7b4n.png


Exaggerating abit there? Don't know about you, but the standard models are far from GT2 quality. BTW, dreamcast sucks :P
 
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