Gran Turismo 6 general Physics Discussion(as well as video)

[Ridox2JZGTE]

I disagree totally in this regard.

The grip levels in GT5, in general terms, have never been the issue. The issue is how the grip transitions into slip that has always been the issue.

I've never understood why people go on about how tyres in GT have too much grip for the grade they are, I suspect its mainly from those members who have not driven on track to a great degree.

A peak of 0.9 - 1.0 for a road tyre on a track surface (which in itself will have more grip than a public road because it uses a finer grade of stone in the tarmac surface and is often well rubbered) is not odd at all. Peaks of 1.3 to 1.4 for dedicated track tyres (semi legal and non road) would sit around the right area and 1.5 - 3 is more than possible for full slicks (drag slicks and qualifying tyres from the days of Group C were even more insane - but often only lasted a lap).

One of the issues raised by a lot of professional drivers in regard to sim is that tyres don't have enough grip (this was true of FM4 and many GT players complained that had too much grip).

So grip levels have never been an issue for me in GT, its always been the way in which the grip breaks away (which has never in the past been progressive enough), the lack of speed loss from tyre scrub and the snap oversteer (again a factor in the lack of progression).

In all of these areas GT6 (from what we see in the demo) has moved things on a lot and certainly in the right direction.

I guess I got used to going down one or 2 grade when driving in GT5 I just prefer it that way, I don't know how to say it, it just feels weird when there's too much grip driving a street car on a street legal tire ( GT5). TBH, I almost never looked at G meter when driving, I just drive with some different grade tire to try to find which one felt best and closest to something realistic when driven on the limit and most of them happen to be on comfort tire ( resembling to street legal tires in real life ).
On most of my no ABS videos with comfort medium, even on stock Zonda R / Mclaren F1 at 600+PP, I actually feel it grips fine. I also absolutely love stock Maserati Gran Turismo S on comfort medium, I have a video of a lap at Motegi Full, it grips like it should or I think it should .
The comfort tire reference I made based on strictly cars driven on stock form, I go up 1 tire grade when necessary ( if tuned ).

For higher grade ones : I always fitted sports medium/soft on racing cars which for me, equates to racing tires hard to medium. Racing hard on GT5 = soft slick, Racing Medium = Super soft/qualify slick. That's just me , I never touch racing soft.

For GT6, I will have to rediscover them again, some great times await. My only wish is that in GT6, we will have skid pad to test car tires in game to see which one is similar to real life street tires.

 

[Cosbuster]

I am testing the 370Z academy version (not the tuned one) and I find the bodyroll and transfer weight unrealistic..From the outside camera or replay camera ,during some slaloms,accelerations and brakings I find that the 370 has the bodyroll of a Suzuki Liana....Is it just me ? really test it

Edit: I know it's been answer but I just had to.

 

[diegorborges]

...

In all of these areas GT6 (from what we see in the demo) has moved things on a lot and certainly in the right direction.

Nice to see that you got good impressions for it, as from what I read from most of your posts, you seem to know a lot about car behavior, etc.

👍

Can't wait to try the demo!

 

[r4ven]

Suspension is much better than GT5 in my opinion. The game also is much more dynamic!

 

[smskeeter23]

I was refering to tyre scrub from oversteer and should have made that cleaner (as that was always the main issue in GT5).

*snip*

Generally speaking onset understeer is not going to scrub off huge speeds (less generally than oversteer in a RWD car) as long as its corrected with a mild lift or reduction of steering angle (neither of which did anything in GT5). Even if its not 100% correct in this build (and I doubt it ever will be on any sim) its a massive step in the right direction in comparison to the almost unrecoverable understeer in GT5, which cause almost zero speed loss but simple made steering impossible.

THANK YOU! I've tried pointing this out quite a bit in the past. Once you get understeer you're going to slide off track or into the wall you're approaching. Oversteer and you better be a drifter because otherwise you're going around.

Throttle lifting never seemed to do the trick unless you got off it all the way and even then many times you'd need at least a touch of brake input to slow down.

REALLY glad to see it looks like these things have been addressed

 

[oxidonis2008]

Hi all,

After trying Academy 2013 (powered by GT 6) i must say that the gameplay feels somewhat unrealistic, plastic, and visually the same as GT5. Didn't notice not a single difference, visually, but the gameplay is soooo dull. I don't know, thats how it feels to me.

Then i started GT 5 and wow, after 2 hours of playing Academy 2013 GT, GT 5 feels like heaven.....

Well see what will final release of GT 6 deliver..... But for PS3, not much i think so...

 

[dsgerbc]

So grip levels have never been an issue for me in GT, its always been the way in which the grip breaks away (which has never in the past been progressive enough), the lack of speed loss from tyre scrub and the snap oversteer (again a factor in the lack of progression).

Generally speaking onset understeer is not going to scrub off huge speeds (less generally than oversteer in a RWD car) as long as its corrected with a mild lift or reduction of steering angle (neither of which did anything in GT5).

Awesome. These are two of my major gripes with GT5. Very little speed loss from getting loose on the exit and the inability to correct the understeer by lifting/reducing brake pressure and unwinding the steering a bit. Looking forward to trying the new physics tonight.

Also, people excited/disappointed - can you please mention if you're using a pad or a wheel? Thanks.

 

[Ills1999]

What a remarkable difference! When you pitch it sideways, you can actually scrub speed. Body roll is much more realistic. Feels much nicer and familiar.

 

[Samus]

Well the physics are certainly improved but clearly there is still a big issue when the fastest laps in the TT are sliding around every corner.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Also, people excited/disappointed - can you please mention if you're using a pad or a wheel? Thanks.

I'm loving it. DFGT.

 

[Scaff]

Well the physics are certainly improved but clearly there is still a big issue when the fastest laps in the TT are sliding around every corner.

Its not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but it is a major step in the right direction, it's also still the first day so I'm reserving judgment on what issues with siding around corners remain until we get closer to the end of the GTA.

 

[Spagetti69]

I'm enjoying it. It's the first time my wheel has been set up in ages.

Biggest improvements needed from my perspective is Force feedback, Frame rate and AI.

 

[emula]

 

[hondadude]

that gif left right tire lifted from ground

 

[masterrawad]

Wow. The suspension is very fluid! I don't have the demo yet (EST time zone), has anyone tried toying around with the physics (sliding into the dirt, man-handling the AI's cars) or would it result in a disqualification?

 

[phil_2001]

I have to say the physics look more amazing than they feel. That replay gif shows who's the realistic physics king once again. It just shopws it clearly.
I played the demo, and I loved it to bits. Gran Turismo is winning with its gameplay, cars handling is challenging when you push it, because it is realistic you wanna play more. No other game is as good, period. The physics gave me a fresh feeling.


What I didn't like is the graphics at 1080p, looks spiky. My smaller 720p TV is showing a smoother image, overall looks more believable and photorealistic.

And BTW at 720p the game doesn't lag at all, 1080p does. I use the bumper cam.

 

[townnet]

Sorry for out of topic, can we get GTR N24 in this demo?

 

[G.T.Ace]

Driving with a pad here.
The thing that impressed me the most, was the new suspension model.
Curbs and bumps can make funky things with the cars, especially noticable on the old start/finish straight at Silverstone. A simple bump in the road can ruin your whole lap now.

What disappointed me, is that they haven't really fixed the braking, nor the torque steer.
I just drove with ABS off and it has the same issues as GT5, which means the standard brake balance is completely off and just a fantasy value, at the same time, ABS on is completely unrealistic too.

The car I found the most fun to drive so far is the Leaf, it corners like a champ.

Overall it's a big improvement, but I'm not really blown away, the tire model is an improvement but doesn't feel like entirely redone and I'm afraid that LMPs will still behave completely wrong in the full game.

 

[Wardez]

Someone was asking about why guys in the top of the leaderboard so far are all gunning it into corners, drifting and getting fast times, when in real life it wouldn't be effective.

I explained it as it being due to something that's not only lacking in GT's tire model, but most every tire model in any game or sim. Just one of those things that seems to be the last frontier in simulating cars properly that allows people to drive cars unrealistically past the rubber's limits.

I think it comes down to the tire model and how it doesn't effectively overheat the tires and more importantly sheds the heat off too quickly.

So you have guys entering corners in a four-wheel drift and resettling the car right away (which is possible in real life) but then heading straight into the next corner like nothing happened before (which isn't possible in real life). So, in the pursuit of speed, this type of driving is a great way of keeping momentum up in order to get through the turns faster in the slower section complexes. That's why you'll see guys doing this into corners where there's another corner directly after, but you won't see them doing it (and treating the car much more realistically) through corners (like the Abbey and Vale) where there's a straight, or long way, to the following corner.

That's all I can think of, could be wrong.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

I don't remember having an open-face (+ balaclava) helmet in GT5 (aside from the rally driver setup) so that's pretty cool. I kept hoping for a 'classic' racing suit & helmet and they never gave us one, perhaps they will for GT6.

 

[Samus]

One thing they need to fix at Silverstone are the big red sausage kerbs. They're tall and chunky in real life to deter you from driving over them and if you do your car will jump/lose control. In GT6 you can ride over them like they're flat.

 

[rainbow]

Is everyone racing with all of the assists including ABS off or do you put ABS on 1? What is the best 'sim' experience? Please respond. Thank you.

 

[freshseth83]

One thing they need to fix at Silverstone are the big red sausage kerbs. They're tall and chunky in real life to deter you from driving over them and if you do your car will jump/lose control. In GT6 you can ride over them like they're flat.

What curbs? They're not all the same height.

 

[RX-7_FD3S]

Is everyone racing with all of the assists including ABS off or do you put ABS on 1? What is the best 'sim' experience? Please respond. Thank you.

It all depends on what "sim" experience you're looking for. Definitely turn TCS (it's not realistic at all) and other stuff like that off. ABS to 1 is fine to me since you can't turn it off on most recent car and the 3 included in the demo definitely have ABS.

The best would be to ask a GT Academy participant that tried the real car and can tell us what was disable and what was not.

As for myself I like the new physics so far but I dont know really about the graphic quality. I was expecting much better improvement. Well I guess it's still a ps3 game.

 

[Samus]

What curbs? They're not all the same height.

The big red sausage kerbs, like I said.

 

[rainbow]

It all depends on what "sim" experience you're looking for. Definitely turn TCS (it's not realistic at all) and other stuff like that off. ABS to 1 is fine to me since you can't turn it off on most recent car and the 3 included in the demo definitely have ABS.

The best would be to ask a GT Academy participant that tried the real car and can tell us what was disable and what was not.

As for myself I like the new physics so far but I dont know really about the graphic quality. I was expecting much better improvement. Well I guess it's still a ps3 game.

I have everything else turned off so was wondering about ABS. My question was answered in the main demo thread. Thanks for your response anyway.

 

[Cosbuster]

I quite liked the physics. They're not completely fresh but a good refinement of what we had. The suspension model is great, it feels natural and you get good information on where the weight is at any given time. It's also great for watching replays.

What impressed me the most was driving the leaf, it seems like understeer in FF cars got a decent overhaul. In GT5 the handling of FF cars felt dead and on rails, no excitement or uncertainty whatsoever. Now I feel that it's closer to the real thing, I even got oversteer without actively trying which I can't recall ever happening in previous games.

 

[CodeRedR51]

The suspension model is great, it feels natural and you get good information on where the weight is at any given time. It's also great for watching replays.

Watching the cars go over the bumps at Stowe get's me all warm and fuzzy.

 

[paskowitz]

Well the physics are certainly improved but clearly there is still a big issue when the fastest laps in the TT are sliding around every corner.

As I had feared.

 

[machschnel]

So how do the new physics go against those of Forza 4?