Gran Turismo 6 general Physics Discussion(as well as video)
- Thread starter TorqueHappenS08
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- 1,711
- GTPlanet
- Cosbuster
I'd say that all in all, it's easier. What changed is that it's more unpredictable, much like a real car. In GT5 for example you knew that no matter how you enter a corner with a specific car, you'd always get a specific reaction, but once in a while, certain cars would just flip out for no particular reason. The change from "this is boring" to "oh ****" was too sudden and with barely any feedback.
Now, cars appear a little more wild (with grip levels being much more gradual) and I got the impression from the demo that the type of corner you're into affects the dynamics of the car much more than in the past where you'd have nearly the same reaction just about everywhere.
Driving in GT5 is a little lifeless and dull, you can grab a car you've never driven before and push it to its limits within the first two corners. I think I like the new direction much more.
It's way easier to drive.
- 298
16cars online = 16 playstations doing the physics, its easy. Thats why in GT5 we have 16 player online but on single player fewer cars at once, as 1 playstation has to do all the Physics.
- 7,830
- U S A
- Tetsumura
- Nigel Fox
On this, I'm not too sure it's that simple. There has been a lot of discussion in the past about "online physics" and how it differs from the single player experience, as the PS3 seems to be juggling on the fly the feedback from up to 15 other PS3s and their respective GT5s. After an update or two, this seemed to change slightly but still seems to be an issue. I'm assuming that Gaikai's cloud server system will help with this when it goes online this fall. And in Arcade Mode, you get 16 cars on track every race with 15 bots which are a lot more lively and competitive than the A-Spec event versions.
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
- 11,660
- GTP_Orido
It's "hard core" mode that SCEA GT6 Producer Taku Imasaki mentioned in an interview regarding the tire heat build up and cool down.
- 814
- Goes_To_11 GTP_GoesTo11
Has anyone noticed any differences in physics with different temperatures? Autumn ring is 8C and Suzuka is 26C but I didn't notice a difference. I'm not really the one to ask though.
LFS is an interesting example. At least to me, it feels like one of the best sims out there (maybe 3rd to rFactor2 and AC) but apparently when they tried to implement a real car, their tire model fell apart. Their development of the new tire model makes PD look like speed demons. I suspect that iRacings delays in releasing the lotus are due to issues with their tire model.
LFS is an interesting example. At least to me, it feels like one of the best sims out there (maybe 3rd to rFactor2 and AC) but apparently when they tried to implement a real car, their tire model fell apart. Their development of the new tire model makes PD look like speed demons. I suspect that iRacings delays in releasing the lotus are due to issues with their tire model.
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
That would be fantastic. I'm assuming they would slow down the cooling process as tires don't lose accumulated heat in 1 or 2 seconds in real life...lol.
I think it's going to take some same car/track comparisons to really see the difference. I'm guessing it's some subtle manipulation of the grip multiplier, but it could involve the above mentioned hardcore mode and incorporate tire wear and temperature into the equation, which would be epic for series racing.
On the accident of the BMW M5, and sorry for offtopic again, but to be fair here the truth is one of the tyres blew off and the car went straight into a tree. The car was heavier as it had more passengers than usual, so the friction of the tyres in the drifting slide was way more powerful, so it didn't resist. I read the passenger report and this was what he said, that the accident happened because of the tyre. I guess that's just twisted fortune.
Generally my opinion is that Gran Turismo 6 demo has by far the best physics I have seen in any game, it not only looks convincing, but it plays just as good.
- 2,012
It's still not comparable with proper pc sims, to the point it is a different genre. That's the harsh reality and I haven't played iracing in a long while.
My opinion would differ a bit if all players actually experienced the 'sim mode' of the GT series, which would be removing SRF altogether and having one tire type available (no ability to put S tires on a subaru 360) that resembles the grip levels of the actual car (in GT5
there's even a warning that says stock models come with grippier tires).I don't agree, the feel of Gran Turismo is better, maybe some mechanics are off a bit compared to PC sims, but "generally" the physics of Gran Turismo is the most advanced and neutral that I have seen. I like how the car behaves at high speeds, unlike other games I can feel the car's weight better and it feels serious/realistic because of that.
- 7,621
- Exorcet
- OE Exorcet
Forza 4 is still better. At least with the demo's current build. However the suspension model was fairly good. I kind of want an explanation of what's going on with the tires.
My opinion would differ a bit if all players actually experienced the 'sim mode' of the GT series, which would be removing SRF altogether and having one tire type available (no ability to put S tires on a subaru 360) that resembles the grip levels of the actual car (in GT5
A sim mode is a good idea, but your version of it is still silly and not really fitting of the name.
- 2,012
A developer can't really properly simulate how a car drives if it isn't with the stock tires. I "stole" this idea from pc sims btw.
Plus, pretty much all this forum's regulars agree on that SRF ruins the game.
As for the tire model on the demo (not the specific type), I didn't like it too.
- 7,621
- Exorcet
- OE Exorcet
That's not true. Now stock tires are need to properly simulate the car in stock form, but tires are also one of the first things to change when road cars go to the track in many cases.
With race cars, multiple compounds are the standard.
If those sims have only one tire because they only had the time to model one, it's fine. If they felt that a car can or should only have one tire, that doesn't really make sense.
Sims should emulate real life, not other sims. You certainly can change tires in real life. As a result, I'd expect a simulator to allow you to do the same if the devs had the resources to code this in.
It can be turned off. It has no effect on the game, except where PD forces it on for whatever reason, which is their only real mistake with it. SRF should always be optional.
- 2,012
It's a practical issue in developing more than theorizing.
SRF isn't realistic at all: it truly is an invention by PD that doesn't exist in real life. Not only ruins the game's realism but also you are encouraged to use it, as it's always faster that way.
edit: Plus I just remembered how weird grip levels are in GT5: If you fit S tires on a subaru 360 the grip amount that comes from the tires will be substantially lower than if you do that on a x2010. Then there's the fact most GT5 cars come stock with better tires than what PD itself thinks they should have, S tires that ae impossible to catch if they lose grip (which there isn't much progression to begin with, if not at all), how online racing is ruined by everyone using S tires and so on.
SRF isn't realistic at all: it truly is an invention by PD that doesn't exist in real life. Not only ruins the game's realism but also you are encouraged to use it, as it's always faster that way.
edit: Plus I just remembered how weird grip levels are in GT5: If you fit S tires on a subaru 360 the grip amount that comes from the tires will be substantially lower than if you do that on a x2010. Then there's the fact most GT5 cars come stock with better tires than what PD itself thinks they should have, S tires that ae impossible to catch if they lose grip (which there isn't much progression to begin with, if not at all), how online racing is ruined by everyone using S tires and so on.
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- 6,985
- United States
One thing I am wondering is if PD did the different type of tire like they did on GT5. For example, if you have sports hard tires on a car, you will either get Sport Hard Type V (inline grip) or Type C (horizontal grip) or a combination of both by default. I hope they didn't take that route in GT6.
- 7,621
- Exorcet
- OE Exorcet
It's not realistic, right. However being able to turn it off negates that. It doesn't make the game any less realistic at all. There is also zero encouragement for me to use it, because it's less realistic.
That makes perfect sense. The X1 has 200000000000000 tons of downforce. Also, the grip level thing is a flaw with tire models.
- 2,012
For you there's zero encouragement to use it, but other people do and will since it's no fun handicapping yourself for not using an aid. SRF and S tires are truly the difference between having a fun race with other people at the front and being in last place, and we all know it from experience.
And that is exactly why you can disable it in online lobbies. The SRF argument is a weak crutch to lean on, and the 360 vs X1 argument is completely invalid. Grip differences with the same tire on different cars can come down to any one of a hundred factors such as weight, weight distribution, suspension, drivetrain, horsepower, torque, and many other factors. As per my personal opinion I find that GT6 has what is in my opinion the most realistic FEELING physics of any racing sim I have tried. I have done kart racing, track days, and ride alongs at drift events and to me GT6 is at the very least right up there with RFactor and iracing. As for Forza, to me it stinks of automotive hyperbole; it is so exaggerated in every sense that I can't take it seriously.
- 11,660
- GTP_Orido
Hopefully the release version will be a lot better.
- 2,428
- England
- Lewis_Hamilton_
Perhaps from your experience it might be, the majority of rooms that I've come across in all of my GT5 time have been SRF enabled (and often boost too), which saddens me.
The ironic part is that most nights, I will join one room in particular that has SRF enabled, but this is mostly because of the people that I have got to know, the relaxed atmosphere and the banter. I would rather the SRF not be there though, it puts you at a huge disadvantage not to use it especially when you're against someone that knows how to exploit it to it's maximum.
The many times that I've opened up no aid rooms and not seen a soul is disheartening to say the least, this is supposed to be a simulator and from what I see, most of the casual crowd treat it as an arcade game.
- 7,830
- U S A
- Tetsumura
- Nigel Fox
As someone who has praised Forza 4 myself, I will have to offer up one note of contention with it. I have a lot of trouble "kinecting" with the cars. I have been racing in it increasingly over the past month - in fact I haven't touched GT5 that whole time, so I have gotten slightly more comfy with it. But I'm still almost as random and reckless as I was the first day I re-tried it. My typical lap times can vary by seconds. No other racer but Enthusia has given me so much trouble.
This is a huge reason I'm hesitant to buy it and a Leashbox this fall, because I have a feeling that the only real difference is going to be with the Livery Editor in HD, which will be awesome sauce I'm sure. And a big reason I'm anxious to get my hands on GT6, because it's going to be refreshing to race a Gran Turismo that's essentially a PC sim in quality, as obviously I agree with phil_2001. Cars that I will feel in complete control of, in contrast to Forza, as good as it is.
Which... I have to admit, I miss a lot, so I think I'll fire that Leet up and give it another spin.
- 7,621
- Exorcet
- OE Exorcet
Just tick the box filtering out SRF rooms. You get a list full of non SRF rooms, sometimes even enough to fill the lobby list limit.
The real problem with GT online is that there isn't enough filtering, so generic poorly hosted rooms with RS tires are everywhere. Finding other rooms is needlessly difficult. Thankfully this isn't an issue with SRF, but why on Earth did PD limit filtering to that one option?
It's because besides SRF, there is no way for people to locate your room.
Well the inconsistency in laptimes is not down to an inconsistency in physics. It could just be a result of the greater variety of vehicle behavior in Forza, but to be playing for a long time and still have the issues is odd.
- 2,428
- England
- Lewis_Hamilton_
The problem is the time of day that I log in, as I am a night worker. The servers are quiet as they are, let alone when I select that option
I completely agree that we need more lobby searching options though, the filters are rather poor. I still can't figure out how they missed inserting a shuffle race filter, or haven't patched one in!
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