Gran Turismo 6 general Physics Discussion(as well as video)

[Stephanos82]

As per my personal opinion I find that GT6 has what is in my opinion the most realistic FEELING physics of any racing sim I have tried. I have done kart racing, track days, and ride alongs at drift events and to me GT6 is at the very least right up there with RFactor and iracing. As for Forza, to me it stinks of automotive hyperbole; it is so exaggerated in every sense that I can't take it seriously.

--> Try Live For Speed - Thank me later!!

 

[Stephanos82]

And bytheway all you people praising iRacing, have you actually ever done track days in your life or are you just repeating what their adverts say.. Being a proud owner of a 1994 miata ( how the heck can i upload pics) and having lapped a spec miata I truly wonder what possessed you to say such things! I don't think highly of Gt5, but it's higher in my sim list than Iracing!

 

[Cosbuster]

And bytheway all you people praising iRacing, have you actually ever done track days in your life or are you just repeating what their adverts say.. Being a proud owner of a 1994 miata ( how the heck can i upload pics) and having lapped a spec miata I truly wonder what possessed you to say such things! I don't think highly of Gt5, but it's higher in my sim list than Iracing!

As subjective as preference is, there is still the fact that GT5's modeling of many elements crucial to simulation is rudimentary at best.

 

[Samus]

Ok here is the video I made, rough quality but you can see what I'm doing. I only lost control when I hit the grass at the start or when I finally pushed it too hard and too sharp an angle. Otherwise though this was all easy to catch and It doesn't seem right to me.

So does anyone else have any thoughts on this that doesn't involve a maniac driving on public roads?

 

[Johnnypenso]

So does anyone else have any thoughts on this that doesn't involve a maniac driving on public roads?

Apparently not...

 

[NissanSkylineN1]

I just rage quit for the 6th time. No grip, mad understeer, "sports cars" handle more like a 60's Cadillac.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I just rage quit for the 6th time. No grip, mad understeer, "sports cars" handle more like a 60's Cadillac.

You must have a different demo than me.

 

[NissanSkylineN1]

You must have a different demo than me.

Honestly, I'm actually considering re-downloading it.

 

[georgetigra]

Forza 4 is still better.

dont talk about forza...
forza is a arcade style game with good physics but far away from the real life racing - driving..
include the cheating A.I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=La4-BLdEIUo

 

[Exorcet]

Forza4 is a better sim than any GT ever made. If you want I can list the reasons why in the Forza vs GT thread, go post there.

 

[Lewis_Hamilton_]

Rage quit. No grip, mad understeer.

I think that there is too much grip.

So does anyone else have any thoughts on this that doesn't involve a maniac driving on public roads?

Looks pretty unrealistic to me, you can probably get away with a couple of left/right swerves, but I would assume a real car would lose full control after that.

Sometimes cars like to spin with little to no help at all, so a 90mph "Cone slalom" shouldn't seem possible to me.

 

[georgetigra]

Forza4 is a better sim than any GT ever made. If you want I can list the reasons why in the Forza vs GT thread, go post there.

take a look the post above you.

 

[Wolfe]

So does anyone else have any thoughts on this that doesn't involve a maniac driving on public roads?

I can totally see it. Thanks for testing the demo the way I would, I haven't had a shot at it yet.

FYI, this is a problem that Forza Motorsport 4 has also. Angular momentum is seemingly negated by countersteer, giving the front end a "magic hand" that helps pull the car out of slides. If you were to attempt the same thing in a sim like Live for Speed, or real life, each slide would last for a longer time than the last, like a pendulum being swung up, until the tail end finally overtakes the front end and you end up in a spin that no amount of countersteer can save.

To me it comes across as a deliberate compromise, allowing T10/PD to give hardcore players ample power oversteer, while letting novices have a shot at completing a lap without ending up backwards. Conscious decision or not, it's not realistic. It makes things easier.

 

[Exorcet]

take a look the post above you.

There is nothing of interest in it. If you have a specific issue, post in the Forza vs GT thread.

 

[ZoidFile]

I just rage quit for the 6th time. No grip, mad understeer, "sports cars" handle more like a 60's Cadillac.

You must do something horribly wrong.

 

[another_jakhole]

To be fair, the Sports Hard tires are unrealistic for a road car like the 370z. Even the Comfot Mediums for the Prius leafy thingy. I would use CH tires on the Leaf and CM tires on the other Nissan (370z ) if this were GT5, which I won't have the chance to do until GT6 releases .

There is nothing of interest in it. If you have a specific issue, post in the Forza vs GT thread.

I laugh and I cry. But why would you have brought up FM in the way that you did in the first place? Please, we're all GREAT FANS of the GT series here, can't we all just get along?

 

[Exorcet]

There is nothing unrealistic about high grade tires on a road car. It's probably something you'll see at an autocross. The posted video is why I'm hoping the tire model is outdated because it's simply wrong.

 

[Stephanos82]

As subjective as preference is, there is still the fact that GT5's modeling of many elements crucial to simulation is rudimentary at best.

+1 about gt5 kind of primitive physics - but it DOES work, doesn't it!
Try exceeding grip in iRacing, i.e a slight oversteer with the Spec Miata. Chances are, the moment you counter steer for correction your car will immediately and violently spin off.. (If you actually turn to where the slide is the car straightens :/:/:/ (left turning the car oversteers and instead of correcting by turning your wheel to the right, you turn it even more to the left - car balances and u save a massive oversteer that would have resulted in a spin --> pls try it and tell me if it works! I remember doing the same thing in GPLegends!

 

[Tornado]

I just rage quit for the 6th time. No grip, mad understeer, "sports cars" handle more like a 60's Cadillac.

pictureof350z.jpg

 

[georgetigra]

There is nothing of interest in it. If you have a specific issue, post in the Forza vs GT thread.

you start talk about forza...
why talk about forza in a GT thread ?
it's flame post because here we talk about gt.
if you like forza its ok if you thing forza is better ok.
but here in this thread we don't care.

Admins really sorry for the off topic but...

 

[Bigbazz]

There is nothing of interest in it. If you have a specific issue, post in the Forza vs GT thread.

You come to the GT6 physics thread posting your opinion as fact with the clear intention of causing a reaction, and then tell them to go to another thread to reply?

 

[another_jakhole]

There is nothing unrealistic about high grade tires on a road car. It's probably something you'll see at an autocross. The posted video is why I'm hoping the tire model is outdated because it's simply wrong.

I honestly can't believe it. I was going to put "tires on a road car '(on the road)' ", BUT I figured no one would be silly enough to state what you have.

First of all, the races weren't races. They were easier to pass cars in than I could have done driving in Grand Theft Auto IV. Secondly, I was talking about from a nautral/normal and realistic standpoint. Who would put high grade tires on a road for (driving on the road) unless they were seriously driving carelessly in the middle of traffic in the middle of the night .

As for the unrealistic results of the video that Samus made, (which I didn't address in the way that you've tried to make it seem) I say, good on him. But it further accentuates that, either or, this is ALSO only the demo and that this really is only a game.

There's a fine line, especially nowadays, when talking about driving simulators. I've always reiterated and mentioned that Kaz/PD understand that GT can't be a full-on simulator. GT wouldn't have the market that it is has, for one. And the gameplay woudn't be as continuous in certain ways as it has been if it were a full-on simulator. Think back to GT1 where spin-outs weren't possible. Why was it such a highly regarded driving game/"simulator" even with the unforunate characteristic in a driving sim?

Add-on Edit -
Samus did make a good point, but it doesn't take anything away from what GT has always done. The physics in GT5 were great, but weren't there obvious inconsistencies in the driving model? With the GT6 demo, they've turned it up a notch, but did everyone really believe that every single action that was made would be as realistic as actions in real life physics would cause?

Am I speaking out of my ass? NO.

But since when have we thought the default tires on road cars (and race cars ) were really the default tires for that specific car model? Sports Hard tires on a GT 86/BRZ/FR-S? REALLY!?!?!??????

 

[Exorcet]

You come to the GT6 physics thread posting your opinion as fact with the clear intention of causing a reaction, and then tell them to go to another thread to reply?

I come into a thread bringing up a point to counter someone else's point and then ask someone else who comes into later to keep things on topic. Yes.

I honestly can't believe it. I was going to put "tires on a road car '(on the road', ", BUT I figured no one would be silly enough to state what you have.

Sports tires still aren't unrealistic.

First of all, the races weren't races. They were easier to pass cars in than I could have done driving in Grand Theft Auto IV.

They were races, the goal was to get to the end ahead of everyone else.

Secondly, I was talking about from a nautral/normal and realistic standpoint.

OK

Who would put high grade tires on a road for (driving on the road) unless they were seriously driving carelessly in the middle of traffic in the middle of the night .

Dodge, Porsche, Ferrari, Chevy, to name a few.

There's a fine line, especially nowadays, when talking about driving simulators. I've always reiterated and mentioned that Kaz/PD understand that GT can't be a full-on simulator. GT wouldn't have the market that it is has, for one. And the gameplay woudn'y be as continuous in certain ways as it has been if it were a full-on simulator. Think back to GT1 where spin-outs weren't possible. Why was it such a highly regarded driving game/"simulator" even with the unforunate characteristic in a driving sim?

And why wouldn't it have the market is has now? If it was a full sim, some cars would certainly be easier to drive. Those that wouldn't could be used with SRF as they are now, or other aids. People don't seem to mind, aids are everywhere online.

I don't know what you mean when you're referring to continuous gameplay.

GT1 was a completely different situation than GT5/6. Also it was probably more realistic for its time.

 

[Tornado]

it's flame post

It's not when brought in response to someone who says "Gran Turismo 6 demo has by far the best physics I have seen in any game," and the entire thread is about discussing how good it is.

but here in this thread we don't care.

You certainly seem to care quite a bit to latch onto a small piece of his post (not including the part where he partially explained) to try to refute it with something irrelevant.

You come to the GT6 physics thread posting your opinion as fact with the clear intention of causing a reaction, and then tell them to go to another thread to reply?

7/10 would laugh again.

As for the unrealistic results of the video that Samus made, (which I didn't address in the way that you've tried to make it seem) I say, good on him. But it further accentuates that, either or, this is ALSO only the demo and that this really is only a game.

There's a fine line, especially nowadays, when talking about driving simulators. I've always reiterated and mentioned that Kaz/PD understand that GT can't be a full-on simulator. GT wouldn't have the market that it is has, for one. And the gameplay woudn't be as continuous in certain ways as it has been if it were a full-on simulator. Think back to GT1 where spin-outs weren't possible. Why was it such a highly regarded driving game/"simulator" even with the unforunate characteristic in a driving sim?

I'm honestly not sure where you are going with this. It sounds like you're making the implication that arguments about the tire model can't be raised because GT isn't a full on sim, but surely that's not it. Can you explain/reword?

 

[mister dog]

I can totally see it. Thanks for testing the demo the way I would, I haven't had a shot at it yet.

FYI, this is a problem that Forza Motorsport 4 has also. Angular momentum is seemingly negated by countersteer, giving the front end a "magic hand" that helps pull the car out of slides. If you were to attempt the same thing in a sim like Live for Speed, or real life, each slide would last for a longer time than the last, like a pendulum being swung up, until the tail end finally overtakes the front end and you end up in a spin that no amount of countersteer can save.

To me it comes across as a deliberate compromise, allowing T10/PD to give hardcore players ample power oversteer, while letting novices have a shot at completing a lap without ending up backwards. Conscious decision or not, it's not realistic. It makes things easier.

I've noticed this too in FM4; the slides get interrupted so to speak and the car doesn't have the tendency to throw itself back violently if you countersteer to abrupt.

Altough Forza is the better game in many points, i realized now going back to GT with the demo here that GT's physics are still the better of the 2. I once had an accident with my real car like this, countered the oversteer to much and the car slapped to the other side and ended up in the wall...

GT6 physics simulate these movements very good i must say, i had the same thing happening to me a couple of times already in the demo, i'm definitly a fan of the new physics 👍

 

[another_jakhole]

My post has grown since when you started typing your posts, but no, Tornado, I wasn't trying to make anyone believe...that.

 

[Tired Tyres]

So does anyone else have any thoughts on this that doesn't involve a maniac driving on public roads?

I believe you were told yesterday that it is because your using a joypad and it has assistance because it is not a direct control device. (Degree for degree movement)

I tried that with my DFGT and spun just as I expected to. Have you repeated it with your wheel?

 

[Exorcet]

Add-on Edit -
Samus did make a good point, but it doesn't take anything away from what GT has always done. The physics in GT5 were great, but weren't there obvious inconsistencies in the driving model? With the GT6 demo, they've turned it up a notch, but did everyone really believe that every single action that was made would be as realistic as actions in real life physics would cause?

This isn't about being 100% accurate. It's about being accurate in relation to the hardware.

Static friction is stronger than dynamic friction. They look the same in Simon's video.

But since when have we thought the default tires on road cars (and race cars ) were really the default tires for that specific car model? Sports Hard tires on a GT 86/BRZ/FR-S? REALLY!?!?!??????

GT5P would have you believe that was case. Why wouldn't default tires be the stock tires (or as close as possible) anyway?

Whatever, point is I was replying to your line about sports tires being unrealistic. No matter what tires are on the car, the physics should be able to work it out. If the 370Z became 100% realistic with CS or whatever tires on, there would be an issue with the physics.

I believe you were told yesterday that it is because your using a joypad and it has assistance because it is not a direct control device.

I tried that with my DFGT and spun just as I expected to. Have you repeated it with your wheel?

What's in the video does not at all look like a controls issue.

 

[TorqueHappenS08]

Guys,keep it on topic, there are plenty of other threads to debate about in, this is strictly GT6 physics discussion.

 

[Samus]

I believe you were told yesterday that it is because your using a joypad and it has assistance because it is not a direct control device. (Degree for degree movement)

I tried that with my DFGT and spun just as I expected to. Have you repeated it with your wheel?

No because it's a faff setting my wheel up, I may do it before the end of the demo. I'm aware it's a controller thing but that doesn't mean it's not an issue.