Gran Turismo 6 general Physics Discussion(as well as video)

[carracerptp]

Anybody else very excited for that new Hardcore mode that was announced?

Was this actually ever "announced". I have only seen it mentioned in a way it sounded more like, turn SRF off.

Also, if we had a "hardcore" mode wouldn't GT Academy be the perfect place for it?

 

[TokoTurismo]

Was this actually ever "announced". I have only seen it mentioned in a way it sounded more like, turn SRF off.

Also, if we had a "hardcore" mode wouldn't GT Academy be the perfect place for it?

It was posted in GTP somewhere, but don't know where though. I'm pretty sure it was RoadRunner who found it and posted it. The Taku guy talked about it.

 

[Wardez]

It was posted in GTP somewhere, but don't know where though. I'm pretty sure it was RoadRunner who found it and posted it. The Taku guy talked about it.

http://simhqmotorsports.com/wp/feature-e3-2013-recap-part-i-gran-turismo-6/

While waiting for one of his turns at the GT6 cockpit sleds, Chunx noticed the tire temperature and wear graphic overlay for GT6 would heat up when cars were sliding through hard corners, but cool off to normal in only a few seconds. It was reminiscent of how critical injuries in games like Call of Duty recover in only a few seconds − certainly not realistic from a simulation perspective. Taku addressed that, saying that tire wear in GT6′s “Hard Core” mode will allow the player to adjust wear rates and how they respond to abuse.

 

[TokoTurismo]

http://simhqmotorsports.com/wp/feature-e3-2013-recap-part-i-gran-turismo-6/

Ahh there it is. Thanks Wardez. 👍

 

[carracerptp]

I think it may have just been a word tossed out. “Hard Core” sounds more like NFS than GT6.

 

[Samus]

The fact it's in quotes suggests it's not actually a whole mode but just that there will be some settings you can adjust to make more things realistic.

That same bug was in GT Academy demo the year GT5 released, so it's probably a result of legacy code

It's not legacy code, it's just a small error in how the track has been modelled, a little gap has likely been left in. Just needs a little fix.

 

[CoolColJ]

Re the hardcore mode, I'm sure it's in the GTA demo, at least when your using the the Tuned 370z and GT-R. The races with the Leaf and 370z feels completely different even with all the aids off... more grippy and stable, somehow, even though the 370z has the same tyres as the tuned version

With the first two cases, you can see the tyres cool down a lot slower, if your doing drifts and burnouts etc. After a few laps the tyres will stay a red'ish colour, and not evenly amongst the 4 tyres.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Yes, I tried this, did long burnout ( circles ) with the GTR, the tires stays red for almost a lap, and the grip severely diminished, harder to push and when it gets yellow, it will still go red easily when pushed too hard.

There's a chance it might not be the full "hard core" though

 

[JerseyDriverSS]

It's mentioned in my sig, every post will count then I haven't done anything wrong again right .. like making statements that sounds like being elitists or looking down on ABS user ... or someone's just don't like the way I play and why is it a problem when no ABS is written and when anyone said they use ABS 1 is not

I know you haven't done anything wrong i just find it hilarious that you mention no abs at least once or twice in all your posts (we get it you drive without it). Hell i'd drive without abs also if the braking physics were actually half decent.

 

[Zer0]

Haven't watched the particular video, but not at all. In GT5 there are missing turns (yep), no bumps and the layout itself isn't exactly the same.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=7106772#post7106772
and
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=8096691#post8096691

I don't know who has spread that urban legend about Laguna seca in GT5 being comparable to the worst renditions of Nurburgring, when its layout is almost the same as the best examples of that track in other games. I have read many times that statment but only between the Forza circles.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Re the hardcore mode, I'm sure it's in the GTA demo, at least when your using the the Tuned 370z and GT-R. The races with the Leaf and 370z feels completely different even with all the aids off... more grippy and stable, somehow, even though the 370z has the same tyres as the tuned version

With the first two cases, you can see the tyres cool down a lot slower, if your doing drifts and burnouts etc. After a few laps the tyres will stay a red'ish colour, and not evenly amongst the 4 tyres.

I noticed the tires going what looks like yellow on the left side of the car but didn't trust my colourblind eyes. I didn't keep an eye on it for going red though other than when I spun. If heat retention and overheating the tires becomes something we can scale, that'll be a dramatic improvement to the game. Having to back off the pace to keep your tires at optimal temps or drive smoother to avoid overheating will add a real challenge - if - IF - it's modeled well

I know you haven't done anything wrong i just find it hilarious that you mention no abs at least once or twice in all your posts (we get it you drive without it). Hell i'd drive without abs also if the braking physics were actually half decent.

I'm thinking Rido ought to change his PSN name for GT6 to GTP_MrNoABS.
You gotta hand it to him for his enthusiasm:tup:👍

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

GT4 has so much understeer built into the engine that you can't even do donuts with high powered RWD cars; but that's okay, because you can match laptimes, so it's the most realistic sim on the market.

I remember this being a massive complaint especially from those who would get bored and want to drift on free runs. It was funny trying to push a viper on trial mountain and snap it into a drift only to either have it straighten back up or have too much turn in and spin around.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

I noticed the tires going what looks like yellow on the left side of the car but didn't trust my colourblind eyes. I didn't keep an eye on it for going red though other than when I spun. If heat retention and overheating the tires becomes something we can scale, that'll be a dramatic improvement to the game. Having to back off the pace to keep your tires at optimal temps or drive smoother to avoid overheating will add a real challenge - if - IF - it's modeled well

Hi, JP, you can try do long burnout in circles with the GTR, say 2 or 3 minutes, then do a hotlap straight away, I think you will have to be gentle with the overheating tires ( mainly rear ) for the next few laps.

I'm thinking Rido ought to change his PSN name for GT6 to GTP_MrNoABS.
You gotta hand it to him for his enthusiasm:tup:👍

MrnoABS - I might make another account with that name, if it's not taken yet Right now, the only one in my friend list that has the same mindset in the GT Academy is Morgoth_666, he's doing all of the TT with no ABS + wheel - Now I got some homework to do, he's faster by a few tenths

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

To an extent, yes. You can still practice on a circuit in the last couple of GT games for experience. Can you say the same for FM4's Green Hell? Just an example. Oh yeah, even though it's more of a simulator than GT5 physics-wise (from what I've heard)?

And more FM comparison that doesn't belong just to try and make a non-point. Reminds me of how you did this during GT5's early months. It wasn't to an extent, the car had very little turn in and brakes usually had to be applied earlier than you'd expect just to get some steer in. If you tried to ever drift the cars, the physic engine that would allow a realistic replication isn't their, it is very strict.

Ever heard of evolution? Wasn't GT2 one of the most realistic looking games during those times? Do most road/race cars from half a century ago pose any competition to cars nowadays?

Since you like to compare things I will take a page out of your book. There were plenty of games during GT2's time that were praised for graphics, you put GT on some pedestal as if it were a pioneer or a rare breed in the field of graphics. Road cars from 30-40 years ago can and some do pose competition to current cars, however it does depend on what you're posing as competition.

The reason for chastising those comments made by reviewers who are like the ones you're referring to is pathetic.

It's pathetic why? Because they exposed a flaw in their journalistic ways that is very sloppy and not doing the job they are paid to do...which is journalism for games. It his a double standard to say that GT5 is superlative in nature as if some paragon, then going on and saying GT6 is amazing too. It's almost as if they didn't even play the games and their boss said write up a review and then move on. Not sure how you can't see the hypocrisy from the GT5 review to the GT6. It's a car game, it isn't like they are reinventing the wheel, it either drives like a real car the first time or it needs more work to some degree.

 

[Imari]

With the first two cases, you can see the tyres cool down a lot slower, if your doing drifts and burnouts etc. After a few laps the tyres will stay a red'ish colour, and not evenly amongst the 4 tyres.

Yes, I tried this, did long burnout ( circles ) with the GTR, the tires stays red for almost a lap, and the grip severely diminished, harder to push and when it gets yellow, it will still go red easily when pushed too hard.

There's a chance it might not be the full "hard core" though

The way the heat system seems to work is that what you see on the screen is a "surface" temperature. Presumably that's why it heats and cools so quickly.

As the experiments you guys have performed show (and I've done it too), there IS another heat sink behind the surfaces. When that heat sink gets hot enough, it slows down the cooling of the surface.

This is frankly a pretty massive step up from the nearly non-existant heat system in GT5. If you push hard enough around Silverstone, you can get the tyres up to a level where it certainly feels like you have less grip. It takes half a dozen laps, but it does happen. If you back off, it will eventually come back.

Without telemetry and/or more cars to test I'm not sure how much more it's possible to read into the system. But it's one of the changes I'm most impressed by. It appears to be a decent heat management system.

Now, hopefully in the final game they have inside/middle/outside display temperatures as well, and it will be up with the current state of play.

 

[Tornado]

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=7106772#post7106772
and
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=8096691#post8096691

I don't know who has spread that urban legend about Laguna seca in GT5 being comparable to the worst renditions of Nurburgring, when its layout is almost the same as the best examples of that track in other games. I have read many times that statment but only between the Forza circles.

I like how people still try to use that video as definitive proof of how good Laguna is in GT5 when it does nothing to actually prove it. How about several of those track landmarks (most notably every bridge on the track) being in completely different places? The runoffs on the main straight being nothing alike? The Rahal straight using the old layout that is at least 10 years out of date?


Or any of the other problems with the layout brought up in that thread you just linked to. But this is off topic for this thread in the first place.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I like how people still try to use that video as definitive proof of how good Laguna is in GT5 when it does nothing to actually prove it. How about several of those track landmarks (most notably every bridge on the track) being in completely different places? The runoffs on the main straight being nothing alike? The Rahal straight using the old layout that is at least 10 years out of date?

Exactly, it's as if PD don't believe in updating their tracks due to the extra work, but that is insulting to us players. With most of us being hard core race fans like Kaz you'd think that avid track updates that make is comparable to today and not 5-10 years ago (Monaco mock) would be seen. I rather PD just say something in like with *Laguna Seca (circa)" like Fuji.

 

[Samus]

Wishful thinking but with a track like Laguna Seca I'm hoping it's not updated because it's still basically the PS2 version and they have instead been working on a new, PS3 quality version from scratch rather than continued touching up of the old assets.

I mean obviously it's a fictional circuit but they clearly did that with High Speed Ring.

 

[Johnnypenso]

The way the heat system seems to work is that what you see on the screen is a "surface" temperature. Presumably that's why it heats and cools so quickly.

As the experiments you guys have performed show (and I've done it too), there IS another heat sink behind the surfaces. When that heat sink gets hot enough, it slows down the cooling of the surface.

This is frankly a pretty massive step up from the nearly non-existant heat system in GT5. If you push hard enough around Silverstone, you can get the tyres up to a level where it certainly feels like you have less grip. It takes half a dozen laps, but it does happen. If you back off, it will eventually come back.

Without telemetry and/or more cars to test I'm not sure how much more it's possible to read into the system. But it's one of the changes I'm most impressed by. It appears to be a decent heat management system.

Now, hopefully in the final game they have inside/middle/outside display temperatures as well, and it will be up with the current state of play.

Hoping this is true and after seeing a sneak peak in the Demo, it darn well better make it into the game. It would really push it over the top if we can scale it, so RD's/hosts can change the severity of heat buildup/dissipation to suit the length of their races, or of course, turn it off completely.

Exactly, it's as if PD don't believe in updating their tracks due to the extra work, but that is insulting to us players. With most of us being hard core race fans like Kaz you'd think that avid track updates that make is comparable to today and not 5-10 years ago (Monaco mock) would be seen. I rather PD just say something in like with *Laguna Seca (circa)" like Fuji.

If they get around to updating any tracks, I'd sure like to see the older version left in the game, but my gut tells me Kaz will see the old version as a sort of pimple on the game and leave it out.

 

[Jawehawk]

Nevermind. Brain fart.

 

[Brend]

Hi, JP, you can try do long burnout in circles with the GTR, say 2 or 3 minutes, then do a hotlap straight away, I think you will have to be gentle with the overheating tires ( mainly rear ) for the next few laps.



MrnoABS - I might make another account with that name, if it's not taken yet Right now, the only one in my friend list that has the same mindset in the GT Academy is Morgoth_666, he's doing all of the TT with no ABS + wheel - Now I got some homework to do, he's faster by a few tenths

I wonder if there's an opposite to you who insists on saying 'ABS ON' in everyone of his/her posts!

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

I wonder if there's an opposite to you who insists on saying 'ABS ON' in everyone of his/her posts!

Actually most of GTPer's here will write ABS 1 when they stated their way of driving in GT5 or on their posted tunes It goes both ways. I am really just a part of tiny minority.

 

[Samus]

Actually most of GTPer's here will write ABS 1 when they stated their way of driving in GT5 or on their posted tunes It goes both ways. I am really just a part of tiny minority.

Yeah, when asked. The tongue in cheek point we're making is how often you seem to bring it up even when not prompted.

 

[JerseyDriverSS]

Yeah, when asked. The tongue in cheek point we're making is how often you seem to bring it up even when not prompted.

lol.. 👍

As far as physics go. In my opinion they have a long way to go to be anything close to being realistic. Yes they are a step in the right direction, but upgrading something bad to mediocre just doesn't cut it to me. Will i still buy and play the game sure i will because what else is there to get (I will get forza 5 also). Having just bought a gaming PC i will say that nothing on a console comes close to iracing or rfactor2 for that matter. It may be expensive but you get an authentic race experience with very good physics and track quality, Although some may not like it because its not pick up and play its the closest your gonna get with a fake wheel and pedals compared to the real thing.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Free speech How many posts within my last 100 that mentioned no ABS ? I'm curious, or is it because my sig ?

 

[Samus]

Free speech How many posts within my last 100 that mentioned no ABS ? I'm curious, or is it because my sig ?

I don't know and we're only playfully teasing you on it, don't worry about it. You carry on referring to it, we'll keep drinking.

PS I have sigs turned off so I've no idea what yours says.

 

[Cote Dazur]

I am really just a part of tiny minority.

I hope it is not too tiny, as I am part of it to.

You might be just more vocal about it, I was too when I found out how great it was, as I thought more GTers should know about it.👍

But now I think that if someone is not doing it it is by choice, not ignorance, so no point even talking about it.

Looking forward to try GT6 without ABS and proper brake balance.

 

[JerseyDriverSS]

Free speech How many posts within my last 100 that mentioned no ABS ? I'm curious, or is it because my sig ?

Nm. I was wrong and i don't feel like counting.

 

[arora]

If not using abs is brought up as some sort of bragging right it's a bit silly as harder doesn't equate to more realistic. I drive 2 vehicles in real life without abs and neither one behaves as ridiculous as the cars in gt5. If not using abs is brought up to point out the abs in gt5 is much more then simply pulsing the brakes then I'm glade it's kept in the spot light. It is a hindering aid that prevents proper trail braking technique and is also responsible for the need to coast into and around apexes.

I used to frequently use very high abs levels in the game because I was too lazy to get the hang of no abs with my dfgt floppy pedal, and it seemed to me 10 was the closest thing to 0 in terms of eradicating the training wheel aspect of the aid.

It would be nice if both; no abs was not so difficult, and with it on it only effected braking in gt6. We will see but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

I don't know and we're only playfully teasing you on it, don't worry about it. You carry on referring to it, we'll keep drinking.

PS I have sigs turned off so I've no idea what yours says.

I'll stop, but I can't guarantee for how long.

I hope it is not too tiny, as I am part of it to.

You might be just more vocal about it, I was too when I found out how great it was, as I thought more GTers should know about it.👍

But now I think that if someone is not doing it it is by choice, not ignorance, so no point even talking about it.

Looking forward to try GT6 without ABS and proper brake balance.

I have been enjoying the demo with it off, have to do all the braking in straight line for the most part, and left foot braking with the L2 deep into corner apex, the braking physics is greatly improved, the tires felt more like rubber with brake modulation, try it on the GTR TT Also ABS 1 still give that added stability, but it might be due to the 5/5 BB with it off.

Almost forgot, with it off, you can actually rotate the car even when you thought you had overshoot the braking point and going wide - some wheel lock ups + rear step out might ensues

at least 10 in the last 10 pages of this thread alone.

Sorry, Jersey, I didn't even realized that.

Okay, let's get back on topic

I like how the brakes now when the tires overloaded and one of them locks, the car will skid/pull to either sides, a quick reflexes to let go of the brakes and maintain control will likely save it. Do it wrong, the car usually will spin out of control, awesome improvement over GT5.

If not using abs is brought up as some sort of bragging right it's a bit silly as harder doesn't equate to more realistic. I drive 2 vehicles in real life without abs and neither one behaves as ridiculous as the cars in gt5. If not using abs is brought up to point out the abs in gt5 is much more then simply pulsing the brakes then I'm glade it's kept in the spot light. It is a hindering aid that prevents proper trail braking technique and is also responsible for the need to coast into and around apexes.

I used to frequently use very high abs levels in the game because I was too lazy to get the hang of no abs with my dfgt floppy pedal, and it seemed to me 10 was the closest thing to 0 in terms of eradicating the training wheel aspect of the aid.

It would be nice if both; no abs was not so difficult, and with it on it only effected braking in gt6. We will see but I'm not holding my breath.

In GT6, compared to GT5, driving without it now brings more consequences when making mistakes/blunder, it's more violent, but the feeling is great when trail braking deep into the apex, even with the stick I can feel the front tires loaded and fighting for grip while the rear goes lighter as the brake balance locked at 5/5