Gran Turismo 7: Latest news and discussion thread

[FPV MIC]

That has nothing to do with it. You can omit my last sentence and my suggestion still stands within the context of Gran Turismo.

It kinda does when you say

ACC already asks you to do laps around Monza to get a gauge of where you're at.

Have you done those laps recently? I did them yesterday for the first time using a controller and there's no way that teaches you anything at all. If anything it's just going to totally overwhelm a little kid who probably won't even know which way the first turn goes let alone where to brake for it. It amounts to; Here's a track, now go and crash into everything! And what's that thing flicking all over the place (for those that don't know, it's the terrible steering wheel animation in ACC).

The other part of your suggestion is somewhat sound but as I mentioned in an earlier post, just don't lock content behind them and then it doesn't matter if you do them at all.

Definitely. There are players that play Gran Turismo and ACC. I’m one of them. Applies to all audiences.

^See above ^. It only applies to people who know where they're going and where to brake already, not total newbs.

______
I feel as though people are looking at this from a far to informed level and need to take a step back and think about this from a first timers viewpoint, or even a teachers viewpoint. It's much easier to teach a kid the basics of accelerate and brake if that's all they have to do with no other distractions. Once they master the accelerate/brake bit you then teach them the next basic technique of picking a braking marker to better their result.

 

[ImaRobot]

Have you done those laps recently? I did them yesterday for the first time using a controller and there's no way that teaches you anything at all. If anything it's just going to totally overwhelm a little kid who probably won't even know which way the first turn goes let alone where to brake for it. It amounts to; Here's a track, now go and crash into everything! And what's that thing flicking all over the place (for those that don't know, it's the terrible steering wheel animation in ACC).

The other part of your suggestion is somewhat sound but as I mentioned in an earlier post, just don't lock content behind them and then it doesn't matter if you do them at all.

I don't think anyone was saying to copy exactly what they're doing, but more so use it as a reference point and offered ways that can be improved from there. It was said that absolutely no one has some sort of algorithm that can gauge what you do on track, that's why it was brought up when talking about what improvements can be made to GT. The gauging by doing laps was meant for those more experience(The reason being the discussion going on, and how some people just wish to have an option to just skip it) so that way when you finish that and do great, you essentially don't have to worry about doing the license test, and in the event that you're not doing good, it offers you way to improve on what you did bad at afterwards and lead you to either tutorials or videos if you want to partake. Some people said to do it live during the race, but I'm not fully on-board with that idea.

 

[FPV MIC]

I don't think anyone was saying to copy exactly what they're doing, but more so use it as a reference point and offered ways that can be improved from there. It was said that absolutely no one has some sort of algorithm that can gauge what you do on track, that's why it was brought up when talking about what improvements can be made to GT.

Perhaps in the higher level licences yes, but newbs still have to learn to get there somehow. Some of the GT games also have lap challenges higher up. Hence this part...

I feel as though people are looking at this from a far to informed level and need to take a step back and think about this from a first timers viewpoint, or even a teachers viewpoint. It's much easier to teach a kid the basics of accelerate and brake if that's all they have to do with no other distractions. Once they master the accelerate/brake bit you then teach them the next basic technique of picking a braking marker to better their result.

Edit: I also did note that ''The other part of your suggestion is somewhat sound''

 

[ImaRobot]

Perhaps in the higher level licences yes, but newbs still have to learn to get there somehow. Some of the GT games also have lap challenges higher up. Hence this part...

I read all of your post.

No one has mentioned anything about removing anything, so not sure what that has to do with it. People are asking for options.

 

[05XR8]

It kinda does when you say

Have you done those laps recently? I did them yesterday for the first time using a controller and there's no way that teaches you anything at all. If anything it's just going to totally overwhelm a little kid who probably won't even know which way the first turn goes let alone where to brake for it. It amounts to; Here's a track, now go and crash into everything! And what's that thing flicking all over the place (for those that don't know, it's the terrible steering wheel animation in ACC).

The other part of your suggestion is somewhat sound but as I mentioned in an earlier post, just don't lock content behind them and then it doesn't matter if you do them at all.


^See above ^. It only applies to people who know where they're going and where to brake already, not total newbs.

______
I feel as though people are looking at this from a far to informed level and need to take a step back and think about this from a first timers viewpoint, or even a teachers viewpoint. It's much easier to teach a kid the basics of accelerate and brake if that's all they have to do with no other distractions. Once they master the accelerate/brake bit you then teach them the next basic technique of picking a braking marker to better their result.

Like what Imarobot just mentioned. Similar to the Clio at Brands Hatch video I posted. It could help gauge where to rank a player: Beginner, Intermediate, Profeesional. Could nearly move Beginners to do the braking and sector tests, Intermediates to AI laden tests and move Professional players straight to One Lap TTs. As an example.

 

[FPV MIC]

I read all of your post.

No one has mentioned anything about removing anything, so not sure what that has to do with it. People are asking for options.

I've seen a hell of a lot of complaining about the simplicity of accelerate/brake in this thread though with ''we all know how to do that'', and perhaps the ACC test shouldn't have been brought up if he didn't want it critiqued/compared.

Like what Imarobot just mentioned. Similar to the Clio at Brands Hatch video I posted. It could help gauge where to rank a player: Beginner, Intermediate, Profeesional. Could nearly move Beginners to do the braking and sector tests, Intermediates to AI laden tests and move Professional players straight to One Lap TTs. As an example.

Or don't make them compulsory at all .

 

[ImaRobot]

I've seen a hell of a lot of complaining about the simplicity of accelerate/brake in this thread though with ''we all know how to do that''

Yes, hence the opinions on the option to be able to.. skip them in some way for those that are well versed? Hence the idea's being put forth of doing a race in the game to gauge your skill level, and determine if you need them or not and offer help afterwards if so? Who said anything about removing these aspects like you're alluding to, that you're discussing with?

and perhaps the ACC test shouldn't have been brought up if he didn't want it critiqued/compared.

Who's said as much? I can't seem to find it. As far as I can see, it's multiple people discussing their viewpoints with no such mentions.

 

[FPV MIC]

Yes, hence the opinions on the option to be able to.. skip them in some way for those that are well versed? Hence the idea's being put forth of doing a race in the game to gauge your skill level, and determine if you need them or not and offer help afterwards if so? Who said anything about removing these aspects like you're alluding to, that you're discussing with?

On multiple occasions I've said ''Don't lock content behind them'' and ''don't make them compulsory''. Not sure where I said people are advocating for complete removal. Edit: I merely put forward my opinion of how those most basic tests can be useful to the very young and total newbies.

Who's said as much? I can't seem to find it. As far as I can see, it's multiple people discussing their viewpoints with no such mentions.

They could just ask you to do a few laps around a track. If you can do it cleanly, under a certain amount of time, you get the first string of license tests automatically golded (gilded?).

ACC already asks you to do laps around Monza to get a gauge of where you're at.

 

[ImaRobot]

On multiple occasions I've said ''Don't lock content behind them'' and ''don't make them compulsory''. Not sure where I said people are advocating for complete removal.

You misunderstand. I'm talking about how you said the newbies are still going to need help:

but newbs still have to learn to get there somehow.

yet no one is saying to remove anything. People are asking for improvements and options, so if that aspect isn't asked to be removed, what exactly are they still going to need help with if the features are still available?

I merely put forward my opinion of how those most basic tests can be useful to the very young and total newbies.

Yes, I understand, which doesn't make sense in the conversation if no one is asking to remove them outright anyways.

No idea what you're trying to portray with the second quote though, it doesn't have much to do with what the question is about how people don't want something criticized.

 

[FPV MIC]

You misunderstand. I'm talking about how you said the newbies are still going to need help:

yet no one is saying to remove anything. People are asking for improvements and options, so if that aspect isn't asked to be removed, what exactly are they still going to need help with if the features are still available?


Yes, I understand, which doesn't make sense in the conversation if no one is asking to remove them outright anyways.

This whole conversation is how many pages long and you haven't seen one person say the early tests are useless? It can all simply be learnt on track?

No idea what you're trying to portray with the second quote though, it doesn't have much to do with what the question is about how people don't want something criticized.

It's not that they want it criticized, it's that it deserves to be criticized if it's going to be held up as an example. Oh I see now, you've edited that bit out while I was replying to that previous post.

 

[ImaRobot]

This whole conversation is how many pages long and you haven't seen one person say the early tests are useless?

Yes, I've seen people that are experienced in track racing games say they are useless to them. Hence asking for improvements to the system, or at the very least, options.

It's not that they want it criticized, it's that it deserves to be criticized if it's going to be held up as an example. Oh I see now, you've edited that bit out while I was replying to that previous post.

Huh?

Yes, anything has the right to be criticized, but I'm not sure why you're saying it as if someone said they don't ACC compared and criticized? Because not a single person said anything of the sort or implied that.

and perhaps the ACC test shouldn't have been brought up if he didn't want it critiqued/compared.

 

[Nielsen]

I'm not asking you to do anything. I'm saying if you're done with the discussion than just remove yourself from it. That's certainly one way to have people stop talking about it. You don't want to keep talking about it because it's redundant, so just stop?

I can figure out for myself when to post or not.

I haven’t told anyone to stop discussing it. I’ve shared my opinion on why I think the criticism is unwarranted, largely down to the reasons stated for almost three weeks now. Again, my opinion. Don’t confuse it with anything else.

Yes, very much like it was obvious that you already liked them before posting that tidbit.

The “tidbid” exemplified one reason why I like the license tests. Additional info emphasis.

A lot of people have, you just keep denying it because you seem to think PD is incapable or too incompetent to get what I suggested sorted.

That’s not why. I don’t think your idea is better or more suitable for GT.

So it's not a bad idea, like you keep suggesting it is then.

How so? Because you think it’s a great idea?

It's that you think they're aren't able to accomplish it.

I don’t think they are, but not why I don’t agree with your solution.

I think they're perfectly capable to get it going if they wanted to.

Ok.

That they suck at it isn't reason enough to discard these ideas.

I’ll repeat, not why I disagreed with your idea. I only pointed out it’s an unrealistic expectation, so it likely wouldn’t materialize no matter how great you think it is.

If you can't believe they can make a better system then how can you believe the system they already made is A-OK?

Because the current system accomplishes what it intends to do.

Anyway, I can see where this is going. Once again you’re in the mood where you’ll rather discuss psychology than video games. Then eventually I get too tired play along, giving you an incentive to imply I’m a coward for leaving mid-conversation. Right?

 

[ImaRobot]

I can figure out for myself when to post or not.

I haven’t told anyone to stop discussing it. I’ve shared my opinion on why I think the criticism is unwarranted, largely down to the reasons stated for almost three weeks now. Again, my opinion. Don’t confuse it with anything else.

I'm sure you can, you're a big boy. Doesn't change much though because I was never telling you what to do. Just offering a simple solution for it to stop if you're that fed up with it, like you've been portraying. I'm not confused about that at all, its just you use terrible wording when talking about it and how it came across.

The “tidbid” exemplified one reason why I like the license tests. Additional info emphasis.

Yes, and that much was obvious already, like you mention.

That’s not why. I don’t think your idea is better or more suitable for GT.

You said yourself you don't think they can accomplish it. That's because you don't believe they have the capability - if not, there would have been no need to mention what they're capable of and what you think of their expertise on certain aspects over others.

How so? Because you think it’s a great idea?

I think it's an idea. Whether it's a better or not we wont know until its tested. You also don't know it's a bad idea, you just don't like it. That's fine.

ll repeat, not why I disagreed your idea. I only pointed it out it’s an unrealistic expectation, so it likely wouldn’t materialize no matter how great you think it is.

Yet you failed to even say what seems unrealistic about it. I mean, you mentioned it being impossible and no game does that, yet there is one. So the basis exists, and if it exists, it can be improved upon too.

Because the current system accomplishes what it intends to do.

Cool. Now lets improve it and try to make it better. If not, give an option, like people are asking for.

Anyway, I can see where this is going. Once again you’re in the mood where you’ll rather discuss psychology than video games. Then eventually I get too tired play along, giving you an incentive to imply I’m a coward for leaving mid-conversation. Right?

I'd appreciate it that you don't put out lies about me. I've not once said you were a coward about anything and never implied such. I'm literally discussing the game with you - the vast majority of every part of our posts have been about the game. We're talking about license tests, so if you'd like to play a victim, go for it.

 

[FPV MIC]

Huh?

I missed your ninja edit in post #6,544

 

[ImaRobot]

I missed your ninja edit in post #6,544

I didn't remove anything. I only added on, so I don't understand what you mentioned.

 

[SDSPOWER01]

Is it really hard to discuss about the game without insulting or choosing to go into defensive form just because you feel like your "losing" an argument?

My God it's pretty plain simple: Some people prefer the license test to evolve and not stay how it was 20+ years ago (whether it will be an option for them to be bypassed or so that it doesnt become boring or feel like a chore for them) a simple suggestion/option and nothing that will ruin the experience for others.
While some other people prefer it to stay how it was because the formula worked for them for 20+ years and its basically the Nostalgia boosting factor of the game.

In my case: I prefer it to stay how it was because I am in the majority of "it worked for me so its fine". I admit that

But there is absolutely no need to go into discussion that starts on a level of personal attacks just because the other party suggested a change or do not agree with an opinion of another.
I mean come on you cannot come into a community and expect like minded people all around you.

 

[happycorey]

How about those trees

 

[Samus]

Is it really hard to discuss about the game without insulting or choosing to go into defensive form just because you feel like your "losing" an argument?

My God it's pretty plain simple: Some people prefer the license test to evolve and not stay how it was 20+ years ago (whether it will be an option for them to be bypassed or so that it doesnt become boring or feel like a chore for them) a simple suggestion/option and nothing that will ruin the experience for others.
While some other people prefer it to stay how it was because the formula worked for them for 20+ years and its basically the Nostalgia boosting factor of the game.

In my case: I prefer it to stay how it was because I am in the majority of "it worked for me so its fine". I admit that

But there is absolutely no need to go into discussion that starts on a level of personal attacks just because the other party suggested a change or do not agree with an opinion of another.
I mean come on you cannot come into a community and expect like minded people all around you.

Well that's the problem a lot of the time on this forum. Whenever anyone says they think something about GT is flawed, or they just suggest new ways to do things, they get shouted down by people who are adamant that no, everything is fine, you can't touch the GT formula. I'm not alone in suggesting wholesale changes or enhancements to various areas of the game, the career mode primarily, and people say "Nope, I want 10,000 credits to buy a car and enter the Sunday Cup. That's Gran Turismo, you can't change it".

It's weird really, I've never known any other game series where so many fans are determined for the game to remain exactly the same every single iteration. It's certainly not everyone, but there is a large amount of people. I even saw someone the other day suggesting they add the soundtracks from old games to GT7, so even that could be the same.

I know nostalgia is a powerful drug but it's hella powerful around Gran Turismo it seems.

 

[SDSPOWER01]

It's weird really, I've never known any other game series where so many fans are determined for the game to remain exactly the same every single iteration.

I kinda understand what you mean, and by far mostly in the Gran Turismo forum specifically you get alot of people that defend in such an absurd way.
I remember long time ago there was a particular member here who was so badly harrased that said member simply avoided coming into the GT forums specifically altogether.

I mean to each their own but dang keep it civil.

 

[05XR8]

How about those trees

Dunno. We'll be too busy accelerating and braking into a box.

 

[Nielsen]

I'm sure you can, you're a big boy. Doesn't change much though because I was never telling you what to do. Just offering a simple solution for it to stop if you're that fed up with it, like you've been portraying. I'm not confused about that at all, its just you use terrible wording when talking about it and how it came across.

The portrayal you saw is what you chose to see. Besides, you were telling me what NOT to do, when said it’s not for me to decide what people can criticize. That’s more or less the same as saying shut up, and I wasn’t even trying to dictate anything.

You said yourself you don't think they can accomplish it. That's because you don't believe they have the capability…

Indeed, but it wasn’t a counterargument. I don’t know why this is so hard to understand.

I think it's an idea. Whether it's a better or not we wont know until its tested. You also don't know it's a bad idea, you just don't like it. That's fine.

I don’t like the idea and I don’t think it would make the game better. Both things are fine, not to mention saying so is fine.

Yet you failed to even say what seems unrealistic about it. I mean, you mentioned it being impossible and no game does that, yet there is one. So the basis exists, and if it exists, it can be improved upon too.

I didn’t say it was impossible. Merely that it is unlikely to happen considering how PD hasn’t made drastic changes over the years to anything not related to graphics and physics.

Cool. Now lets improve it and try to make it better. If not, give an option, like people are asking for.

I never disagreed with that.

I'd appreciate it that you don't put out lies about me.

It was actually a question, but I’d also appreciate if you didn’t obfuscate my points with pettiness.

I've not once said you were a coward about anything and never implied such. I'm literally discussing the game with you - the vast majority of every part of our posts have been about the game. We're talking about license tests, so if you'd like to play a victim, go for it.

You took on the victim role from the get go. You’re hardly dicussing the game at this point, as always when you address my posts. You’re pointing out some behavioral flaws you choose to see in my posts using the topic at hand as context. Another quote train headed for derailment.

Well that's the problem a lot of the time on this forum. Whenever anyone says they think something about GT is flawed, or they just suggest new ways to do things, they get shouted down by people who are adamant that no, everything is fine, you can't touch the GT formula.

That’s simply not true. There’s almost consensus here that GT has multiple flaws in the game design department. Some people just don’t think the license tests are anywhere near being the worst example.

 

[Monkey Man]

How about those trees

Indeed, pixellated, cardboard-cutout, unrealistic textures... far more interesting than this.

 

[SnakeOfBacon]

GT7s trees are looking good so far, the big redwoods at New Trial Mountain are nice and definitely not flat, but I do still miss the GT3 backstraight design with light filtering through the canopy.

 

[Monkey Man]

... but I do still miss the GT3 backstraight design with light filtering through the canopy...

Same here bro'.

It was epic!

 

[Samus]

That’s simply not true. There’s almost consensus here that GT has multiple flaws in the game design department. Some people just don’t think the license tests are anywhere near being the worst example.

I know what I experience when posting here, thanks. I clearly said it wasn't everybody but I've been around here long enough to know that what I said is accurate, I wouldn't have said it otherwise. I've criticised the copy/paste game design multiple times, I'm shot down every time by multiple people saying it's fine and what they want. Just search my posts for Sunday Cup if you don't believe me, people never like the idea of getting rid of that, irrespective of what alternative I suggest. Then here you are, shooting down any suggestion of changing license tests.

What you think is a priority or how likely PD are to actually change anything is irrelevant. You clearly are strongly in the corner of keeping them as-is. Otherwise this discussion wouldn't have happened, you would have just said "I agree they should be improved, but I don't think it's a priority" and pages of discussion wouldn't have happened.

 

[ScottPuss20]

I feel as though people are looking at this from a far to informed level and need to take a step back and think about this from a first timers viewpoint, or even a teachers viewpoint. It's much easier to teach a kid the basics of accelerate and brake if that's all they have to do with no other distractions. Once they master the accelerate/brake bit you then teach them the next basic technique of picking a braking marker to better their result.

Yes! The key is to deliver each piece of information in a short, concise way! No beating around the bush or overwhelming the player by throwing them onto a track with a short tutorial.

 

[Silver Arrows]

Whenever anyone says they think something about GT is flawed, or they just suggest new ways to do things, they get shouted down by people who are adamant that no, everything is fine, you can't touch the GT formula.

This is the biggest issue in general. Forgetting that by this point, Gran Turismo has been, effectively, the same game since at minimum GT4, and probably earlier too, with only GTS being the differentiating example. Hell, if I may propose a somewhat controversial opinion: the best GT game has already been made, and it was made a decade ago. It also wasn't even a GT game: it was Forza Motorsport 4. If GT was going to look at concepts and ideas to swipe from, there would be a good place to start.

But like...there's pretty clear cut problems with GT in the series' totality at the moment, and specifically within its historically largest mode, that being its single player. Sure seems like Kaz is well aware of the competition, but has no desire to actually fix the problems that plague the series, especially in a gameplay sense, which is what half these criticisms boil down to, and why other games are mentioned as examples to at least look at, if not again to swipe ideas from. Yeah, sure, the game looks pretty, but if you're actually looking to play the game for you know, the racing element, it's not very fun. It hasn't really been fun since GT5.

But then you get the dishonest actors who think that GT being compared to any game (but especially that racing game from the Xbox brand like we're still in the pissing matches of 2005, or 2011) is a cardinal sin, or stick their fingers in their ears and try to point out sales or whatever. Yeah, GT sells well, but like, how many of those sales are from people who don't care for racing games, or are simply using GT as a graphical showcase, which seems to be what Polyphony are focusing on more often then the cacophonous chorus of gameplay problems that have plagued the series for a long while now.

Like, at what point does Polyphony wake up and change things wholesale, like they've needed to? At what point do the fans realize the changes that need to be made? Like you said, nostalgia is a powerful thing, but GT seems to have it incredibly bad. Almost as bad as NFS by this point, and that series is actively stifled by people who fall on two opposite camps and basically want their type of game to be made and repeated forever.

 

[ImaRobot]

The portrayal you saw is what you chose to see. Besides, you were telling me what NOT to do, when said it’s not for me to decide what people can criticize. That’s more or less the same as saying shut up, and I wasn’t even trying to dictate anything.

No I wasn’t. I was suggesting that if these seems like such a problem to talk about it as you’re making it out to be, then just remove yourself from the equation.

Indeed, but it wasn’t a counterargument. I don’t know why this is so hard to understand.

I never took it as a counter arguement. You said you haven’t seen someone come up with any solution and I said it’s because you keep denying everything outright because you didn’t think PD is capable to do the idea you didn’t even disagree with being bad. You initially labeled it as improbable because you doubted their capabilities in that area. I don’t doubt their abilities because like it’s been mentioned plenty of times, a small dev atleast got going what you denied initially. So I have faith that PD should at least be capable to get it going too.

It was actually a question, but I’d also appreciate if you didn’t obfuscate my points with pettiness.

I’ve never done such thing, it’s more likely your frustration with this continuing that’s causing you to feel such a way. It was a question that made absolutely no sense to use in a discussion when I’ve never been the one to actually say or imply that in the first place. That is not something to apply to me, and if you have problems with that notion, you should take it up with the person that actually said it to you instead of trying to make people the bad guy. It’s an outright lie to imply that, or completely dishonest at best.

You took on the victim role from the get go. You’re hardly dicussing the game at this point, as always when you address my posts. You’re pointing out some behavioral flaws you choose to see in my posts using the topic at hand as context. Another quote train headed for derailment.

Took the victim from the get go? That makes no sense because I’m not the one pretending someone is attacking me personally. You are. That’s why you tried to use that dishonest remark as a scapegoat to the conversation. I haven’t pointed out any behavioral flaws, in fact, you’re the one that’s making it less and less about the game at this point trying to push that point as hard as you can. I suggest you go back and re-read all the posts I’ve made to you thoroughly because the absolute vast majority of what I’ve been posting has actually been about the game and this license discussion, the more you posted the less you talked about the game and actually decided to talk about me as a person instead. The only time I’ve even mentioned something remotely close, was when I initially posted to you about how you’re not in a place to call it unnecessary. Thats it, and if you can’t see and understand that, than you’re lying to yourself and everyone else saying things like that. You’ve made it about “psychology”, you’re derailing this by doing the exact thing you’re trying to label other people doing.

 

[Imari]

I'm not asking you to do anything. I'm saying if you're done with the discussion than just remove yourself from it. That's certainly one way to have people stop talking about it. You don't want to keep talking about it because it's redundant, so just stop?

No no no, you've got it all wrong. You're not allowed to point out that people shouldn't take part in discussions they don't like, only he's allowed to point out that people shouldn't take part in discussions he doesn't like.

It all becomes very clear when you recognise the simple truth that the world revolves around a central point.

 

[HarVee]

GT7s trees are looking good so far, the big redwoods at New Trial Mountain are nice and definitely not flat, but I do still miss the GT3 backstraight design with light filtering through the canopy.

I'm honestly just happy that PD realized that paper is made from trees not the other way around. The 2D 'paper' trees in the PS3 era was one of my biggest annoyances graphic-wise. So naturally I was quite happy to see they made drastic improvements in this area with GT Sport.