Gran Turismo 7: Latest news and discussion thread

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FFB question for longtime Gran Turismo players...

GTS was my first game I ever got a wheel for. Well, that's a lie. My brother and I got a wheel for Ridge Racer way back in the day, but that doesn't count.

Anyways, what was the FFB progression from GT5 --> GT6 --> GTS? I want to try to gather a feel for what kind of FFB update we'll get with GT7... if any.

Second part to my query:
What all do people want from GT7 regarding FFB improvements? Yes I know... physics and FFB kinda go hand in hand. Better rumble strip feel? More realistic feel of the wheel going light when you understeer? (although I'm pretty sure PD coded in some FFB chatter when you understeer on purpose, to offer some nuance to people whom are either not old enough, not able, or have limited experience driving..... I for one don't mind it and appreciate the cue that I'm going a little too fast...but that's subjective of course)

As far as physics, I don't think PD should sacrifice the accessibility of GT by going full-sim and all... but I would appreciate a little more realism in the way how you can absolutely hammer kerbs and such. Getting a good time at Monza or NBGP basically requires that you jump the chicane kerbs. And a good time at Dragon Trail seaside requires that you hook the inside kerbs at a few corners so you can get "pulled" around; and of course there's the COD.


Funny story....

I had no clue you could look at replays of fast laps in the daily's for probably the first 4-5 months I played GTS. Even as my skill increased, I couldn't figure out how the top guys in even the "B's" were so much faster than me. I then discovered replays (after joining this forum of course) and saw that the fast guys were literally driving a different track than me :lol:. My point is that I had an absolute blast with this game, driving courses and cars how they should be driven IRL, before I was enlightened by some of the arcade aspects of this game.
 
Last edited:
Yard_Sale
FFB question for longtime Gran Turismo players...

GTS was my first game I ever got a wheel for. Well, that's a lie. My brother and I got a wheel for Ridge Racer way back in the day, but that doesn't count.

Anyways, what was the FFB progression from GT5 --> GT6 --> GTS? I want to try to gather a feel for what kind of FFB update we'll get with GT7... if any.

Second part to my query:
What all do people want from GT7 regarding FFB improvements? Yes I know... physics and FFB kinda go hand in hand. Better rumble strip feel? More realistic feel of the wheel going light when you understeer? (although I'm pretty sure PD coded in some FFB chatter when you understeer on purpose, to offer some nuance to people whom are even not old enough, not able, or have limited experience driving..... I for one don't mind it and appreciate the cue that I'm going a little too fast...but that's subjective of course)

As far as physics, I don't think PD should sacrifice the accessibility of GT by going full-sim and all... but I would appreciate a little more realism in the way how you can absolutely hammer kerbs and such. Getting a good time at Monza or NBGP basically requires that you jump the chicane kerbs. And a good time at Dragon Trail seaside requires that you hook the inside kerbs at a few corners so you can get "pulled" around; and of course there's the COD.


Funny story....

I had no clue you could look at replays of fast laps in the daily's for probably the first 4-5 months I played GTS. Even as my skill increased, I couldn't figure out how the top guys in even the "B's" were so much faster than me. I then discovered replays (after joining this forum of course) and saw that the fast guys were literally driving a different track than me :lol:. My point is that I had an absolute blast with this game, driving courses and cars how they should be driven IRL, before I was enlightened by some of the arcade aspects of this game.
Click to expand...
FFB development between titles has been minimal to be perfectly honest.

As far as improvements go, well I could just cheat and say they need to mirror RF2/AMS and be done with it, but to provide more detail:

  • Realistic build-up of steering weight based on lateral load, currently the progression just isn't accurate, and feels like the FFB version of audio rammed through a low quality compressor.
  • With the above the fake FFB chatter on understeer wouldn't be required, honestly it really wouldn't
  • FFB tied to the actual steering geometry changes, as either steering geo isn't currently modelled correctly or the two are not fully linked. The easiest way to experience this Paddock Hill at Brands Hatch, as you cross the crest the car is at an angle to it, so the left and right suspension are not experiencing the same changes, in every other sim (and more importantly reality) this causes the steering to pull to the right while unloading the wheel. It only occurs for a fraction of a second, but its both accurate and important communication, and it's missing in GT.
  • The above may also explain why the FFB in GT isn't as sensitive to camber changes as it should be, but that could also be down to some real world tracks being far smoother than they should be.
  • More set-up options are needed, from a straight physics feed to the FFB (as almost every other sim on the market offers) to canned effects for those who want them, driven via sliders and pre-sets to allow people to tune it the way they want it.

Currently the FFB in GT feels to disconnected from the physics engine that should be driving it. In most other titles you get (or at least get the option for) a direct raw feed from the physics engine, which you can then apply dampers to, add canned effects (for Seat of the Pants feel, etc.), and tune the mix yourself. GTS feels like audio that's been passed through heavy studio production, it's had harsh high and low pass filters added to it, its been compressed and the engineers behind the desk has removed anything they think isn't needed, and then finally added auto-tune to it when they think you need it (FFB chatter on understeer). The end result is middle of the road FFB (to mix puns in a bad way) that attempts to offend no-one, but ends up being too safe and bland for those who know what it should feel like.

Now I would have no issue with that being the 'default mix' if we had the option of bypassing all of it and putting our own mix together, but PD still really don't like giving people options, so all we get is tone and volume sliders (to use the audio analogy again).

Don't get me wrong, it's also possible to go to far the other way, see the original Project Cars for an example of that. Dialling in FFB on every car individually is not the answer either, but plenty of other titles on the market have got the balance right, so it's not like this isn't possible. Nor is this something that can only happen on PC, as AC got the balance right on console with far less resource than PD and with a few options and sliders provided FFB that's far more accurate and tuneable (in terms fo canned effects should you want/need them).
 
Yard_Sale
FFB question for longtime Gran Turismo players...

GTS was my first game I ever got a wheel for. Well, that's a lie. My brother and I got a wheel for Ridge Racer way back in the day, but that doesn't count.

Anyways, what was the FFB progression from GT5 --> GT6 --> GTS? I want to try to gather a feel for what kind of FFB update we'll get with GT7... if any.

Second part to my query:
What all do people want from GT7 regarding FFB improvements? Yes I know... physics and FFB kinda go hand in hand. Better rumble strip feel? More realistic feel of the wheel going light when you understeer? (although I'm pretty sure PD coded in some FFB chatter when you understeer on purpose, to offer some nuance to people whom are either not old enough, not able, or have limited experience driving..... I for one don't mind it and appreciate the cue that I'm going a little too fast...but that's subjective of course)

As far as physics, I don't think PD should sacrifice the accessibility of GT by going full-sim and all... but I would appreciate a little more realism in the way how you can absolutely hammer kerbs and such. Getting a good time at Monza or NBGP basically requires that you jump the chicane kerbs. And a good time at Dragon Trail seaside requires that you hook the inside kerbs at a few corners so you can get "pulled" around; and of course there's the COD.


Funny story....

I had no clue you could look at replays of fast laps in the daily's for probably the first 4-5 months I played GTS. Even as my skill increased, I couldn't figure out how the top guys in even the "B's" were so much faster than me. I then discovered replays (after joining this forum of course) and saw that the fast guys were literally driving a different track than me :lol:. My point is that I had an absolute blast with this game, driving courses and cars how they should be driven IRL, before I was enlightened by some of the arcade aspects of this game.
Click to expand...
It didn't even feature self-realignment torque (the effect of the springs that brings your wheel to the center), just to put you in perspective quickly about how poor the FFB is in GT. You also don't feel the road bumps, poor oversteer-understeer communication, etc etc poor everything FFB related.

And then we still don't even know whether we will be able to calibrate the wheel in-game, so it auto-adjust the degrees of rotation per car (which would be great for the old school GT mode many of us have been waiting for); no info on actual and very much needed FFB enhancements; no nothing about tyre model; no nothing about physics in general etc. Everything is about 4k-60FPS and so on, in other words, graphics and photorealism (and not even that, as this is still cross-platform gen).

Yamauchi - 2022.
 
Scaff
FFB development between titles has been minimal to be perfectly honest.

As far as improvements go, well I could just cheat and say they need to mirror RF2/AMS and be done with it, but to provide more detail:

  • Realistic build-up of steering weight based on lateral load, currently the progression just isn't accurate, and feels like the FFB version of audio rammed through a low quality compressor.
  • With the above the fake FFB chatter on understeer wouldn't be required, honestly it really wouldn't
  • FFB tied to the actual steering geometry changes, as either steering geo isn't currently modelled correctly or the two are not fully linked. The easiest way to experience this Paddock Hill at Brands Hatch, as you cross the crest the car is at an angle to it, so the left and right suspension are not experiencing the same changes, in every other sim (and more importantly reality) this causes the steering to pull to the right while unloading the wheel. It only occurs for a fraction of a second, but its both accurate and important communication, and it's missing in GT.
  • The above may also explain why the FFB in GT isn't as sensitive to camber changes as it should be, but that could also be down to some real world tracks being far smoother than they should be.
  • More set-up options are needed, from a straight physics feed to the FFB (as almost every other sim on the market offers) to canned effects for those who want them, driven via sliders and pre-sets to allow people to tune it the way they want it.

Currently the FFB in GT feels to disconnected from the physics engine that should be driving it. In most other titles you get (or at least get the option for) a direct raw feed from the physics engine, which you can then apply dampers to, add canned effects (for Seat of the Pants feel, etc.), and tune the mix yourself. GTS feels like audio that's been passed through heavy studio production, it's had harsh high and low pass filters added to it, its been compressed and the engineers behind the desk has removed anything they think isn't needed, and then finally added auto-tune to it when they think you need it (FFB chatter on understeer). The end result is middle of the road FFB (to mix puns in a bad way) that attempts to offend no-one, but ends up being too safe and bland for those who know what it should feel like.

Now I would have no issue with that being the 'default mix' if we had the option of bypassing all of it and putting our own mix together, but PD still really don't like giving people options, so all we get is tone and volume sliders (to use the audio analogy again).

Don't get me wrong, it's also possible to go to far the other way, see the original Project Cars for an example of that. Dialling in FFB on every car individually is not the answer either, but plenty of other titles on the market have got the balance right, so it's not like this isn't possible. Nor is this something that can only happen on PC, as AC got the balance right on console with far less resource than PD and with a few options and sliders provided FFB that's far more accurate and tuneable (in terms fo canned effects should you want/need them).
Click to expand...
What FFB settings in GT Sport do you find to be the best? And with what wheel is that?

I find 5/1 (5 max. torque and 1 ffb sens.) to be the best on my G29. I saw that Fanatec recommends 5/1 for their wheels, so I'll try the same with the GT DD Pro when I get it in March.

During this week's C race (full rain in Gr.3) I've got like 90-95% feeling of what's going on with the car and the grip, but the last 5-10% missing make it a brutal guesswork. Braking into corners, sliding, is no problem, but accelerating out of them the FFB is dead (heavy) until the slide has gone a bit too far - then it goes lighter. Also, when braking or accelerating in a straight line, the FFB is dead until the rear steps out, once again a bit too much.
Maybe it's just the weak G29 - I don't know.
 
Last edited:
HugoTwoWheels
What FFB settings in GT Sport do you find to be the best? And with what wheel is that?

I find 5/1 (5 max. torque and 1 ffb sens.) to be the best on my G29. I saw that Fanatec recommends 5/1 for their wheels, so I'll try the same with the GT DD Pro when I get it in March.

During this week's C race (full rain in Gr.3) I've got like 90-95% feeling of what's going on with the car and the grip, but the last 5-10% missing make it a brutal guesswork. Braking into corners, sliding, is no problem, but accelerating out of them the FFB is dead (heavy) until the slide has gone a bit too far - then it goes lighter. Also, when braking or accelerating in a straight line, the FFB is dead until the rear steps out, once again a bit too much.
Maybe it's just the weak G29 - I don't know.
Click to expand...
I have to be honest it's been a while since I looked at the exact settings I use for GTS, I will try and take a look tonight and let you know.
 
alex511
GT7 Cover in real Life, First time i See, seems for me a preorder-box.

When you look behind, theres PS5-box, too.
Click to expand...

This seems to be still a promotional box art, so wouldn't count it on that being final. That being said, I noticed the bonus items have a redeeming deadline of August.
 
tankuroded
This seems to be still a promotional box art, so wouldn't count it on that being final. That being said, I noticed the bonus items have a redeeming deadline of August.
Click to expand...
But as you can see the Box is given a prize on the sticker, That would be very unlikely for a only a promo Box. So i really thinks its any kind of preorder.
However, it looks great for me.
 
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tankuroded
This seems to be still a promotional box art, so wouldn't count it on that being final. That being said, I noticed the bonus items have a redeeming deadline of August.
Click to expand...
A time limit on redeeming the bonus items is concerning as I've preordered the Anniversary edition but not been able to get a PS5 yet. I don't know why it would be necessary except possibly to prevent mass reselling after release.
 
Jack_10_9_8_7
A time limit on redeeming the bonus items is concerning as I've preordered the Anniversary edition but not been able to get a PS5 yet. I don't know why it would be necessary except possibly to prevent mass reselling after release.
Click to expand...
You can redeem those codes directly on the PS website without owning a console or installing the game.


https://www.playstation.com/en-gb/support/store/redeem-ps-store-voucher-code/

  1. Go to PlayStation Store and click on your Avatar at the top of the screen.
  2. Select Redeem Codes from the drop-down menu.
  3. Carefully enter the code and select Redeem.
  4. The credit or content is now applied to your account.

I've got a few pre-order/bonus codes redeemed for games that have been sat in my backlog for over a year. They just forever sit as pending download until you do install the respective game.
 
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alex511
Google-Translation:
"Good morning everyone, last week I received great news from one of the World Tour drivers, I can't say his name as it would influence him, but he told me that last year the Gran Turismo team was scanning the great Road circuit Atlanta for Gran Turismo 7"

Click to expand...

It has a lot of elevation changes, right? Those are always the most interesting tracks.

It has a sort of corkscrew section. Nice.
p9cvzgrm6u521.jpg
 
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HugoTwoWheels
What FFB settings in GT Sport do you find to be the best? And with what wheel is that?

I find 5/1 (5 max. torque and 1 ffb sens.) to be the best on my G29. I saw that Fanatec recommends 5/1 for their wheels, so I'll try the same with the GT DD Pro when I get it in March.

During this week's C race (full rain in Gr.3) I've got like 90-95% feeling of what's going on with the car and the grip, but the last 5-10% missing make it a brutal guesswork. Braking into corners, sliding, is no problem, but accelerating out of them the FFB is dead (heavy) until the slide has gone a bit too far - then it goes lighter. Also, when braking or accelerating in a straight line, the FFB is dead until the rear steps out, once again a bit too much.
Maybe it's just the weak G29 - I don't know.
Click to expand...
Going from the Logitech G series wheel to the TM T300 was day and night for me. My G29 was pretty much just dead playing GT, at least with the T300 I can feel understeer, oversteer, tyre slip, downforce, etc it’s good in my opinion, but it really lacking in just road feel. If you are going straight you just don’t feel the road like you would in ACC, that game is just on another level with the road feel. Going down hill after the first turn at BrandsHatch is insane like you can literally feel the drop it’s insane. If GT7 can get 50% of the road sensation you get in ACC I will be extremely happy!
 
Scaff
It's a great track with good elevation changes, but that photo makes that section look much steeper than it is (which is due to the telephone used to take that shot).

Click to expand...

I'm trying to figure out what you are trying to say with your youtube video here, that a real life pictures is not accurate and that we should rather look at a game in VR to know the real elevation ? I'm so confused. I mean yeah you can definitely see that the pictures compress distance and exagerate things but showing as an exemple a game is kinda confusing for me as game usually dont pay respect to elevation change. It was actually what suprised me the most when I went to the Nurburgring.
 
RX-7_FD3S
I'm trying to figure out what you are trying to say with your youtube video here, that a real life pictures is not accurate and that we should rather look at a game in VR to know the real elevation ? I'm so confused. I mean yeah you can definitely see that the pictures compress distance and exagerate things but showing as an exemple a game is kinda confusing for me as game usually dont pay respect to elevation change. It was actually what suprised me the most when I went to the Nurburgring.
Click to expand...
The real life picture isn't accurate as the telephoto lens used has compressed that image massively.

VR footage is about as close to 'correct' as you will get, but its not as good as either going in reality or experiencing a track in VR yourself.

What the video footage does do however is a much better job of showing what the elevation changes are than the photo.
 
RX-7_FD3S
as game usually dont pay respect to elevation change
Click to expand...
They don't? What's up with all the talk about "road texture" when elevation changes aren't represented correctly? Who the hell cares about "texture" when elevation changes are made up? Representing elevation correctly seems to me as a something fundamental, while texture is nice to have for immersion.
 
HugoTwoWheels
They don't? What's up with all the talk about "road texture" when elevation changes aren't represented correctly? Who the hell cares about "texture" when elevation changes are made up? Representing elevation correctly seems to me as a something fundamental, while texture is nice to have for immersion.
Click to expand...
I believe what they are trying to say is that on a flat screen elevation changes don't come across as much as they do in reality, if you also have your FoV wrong (which is pretty much a given for most in GTS) that does then compound the problem.

Which is an accurate observation to make, however if you play in VR is does correct for a lot of that, mainly because of two factors. The first being that the FoV is correct in VR and the second being that you don't have an 'edge' to the viewing screen, so the immersion helps significantly as well. Certainly for all the tracks I've driven in reality, the elevation changes are much more accurately represented in terms of feel and scale in VR than they ever will be on a flat screen, even with the correct FoV.

VR gives you that rollercoster feeling, along with the wall of tarmac in front of you and/or drop to nowhere feeling that some tracks have when driven in reality.
 
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