Gran Turismo 7: Latest news and discussion thread

[Revengel]

My frustration with the "GT4 Was The Best Ever" trend that's going through this thread basically boils down to this:

It's fine to praise Gran Turismo 4 for what it did, but don't dare take into account what it didn't do.


For those who champion Gran Turismo 4, I have the following question:

Would you support that game if it were released - as is - today?


Or - and this is my guess - would you complain about the:

• Graphics
• Physics
• Lack of livery editor
• Lack of Online lobbies
• Lack of updates
• No custom races
• No 2K/4K/VR/HDR/60FPS
• Etc. . .

Gran Turismo 4 didn't have any way to add content, have true online competition, online multiplayer, livery editor and the like. PD could only put everything they had on the one disk you purchased and that was it. It was great for what it was, but Gran Turismo 7 is far better even if you only look at what a single player can do and experience.

• Number of races? Custom Races would like a word.
• Ways to drive cars? Missions & Licenses would like a word as well.
• Looking at your cars and taking pictures? Photomode is vastly improved and expanded.

By no means is the above a complete list.

The idea of the game being "over" once you finish menu book 39(?) makes the following statement: Rather than exploring all the single player options Gran Turismo 7 has to offer, you choose to complain that it does not pull you by the hand to explore other portions of the game.


It's a preference; there's nothing wrong with that.


However, to praise a game and ignore its shortcomings - no matter if it's Gran Turismo 7, Sport, 3 (A-spec) or whatever iteration it is - is a textbook case of nostalgia glasses in action.

Ok, I'll go back into my shed.

#GrumpyOldPlayer

 

[Nebuc72]

My frustration with the "GT4 Was The Best Ever" trend that's going through this thread basically boils down to this:

It's fine to praise Gran Turismo 4 for what it did, but don't dare take into account what it didn't do.


For those who champion Gran Turismo 4, I have the following question:

Would you support that game if it were released - as is - today?


Or - and this is my guess - would you complain about the:

• Graphics
• Physics
• Lack of livery editor
• Lack of Online lobbies
• Lack of updates
• No custom races
• No 2K/4K/VR/HDR/60FPS
• Etc. . .

Gran Turismo 4 didn't have any way to add content, have true online competition, online multiplayer, livery editor and the like. PD could only put everything they had on the one disk you purchased and that was it. It was great for what it was, but Gran Turismo 7 is far better even if you only look at what a single player can do and experience.

• Number of races? Custom Races would like a word.
• Ways to drive cars? Missions & Licenses would like a word as well.
• Looking at your cars and taking pictures? Photomode is vastly improved and expanded.

By no means is the above a complete list.

The idea of the game being "over" once you finish menu book 39(?) makes the following statement: Rather than exploring all the single player options Gran Turismo 7 has to offer, you choose to complain that it does not pull you by the hand to explore other portions of the game.


It's a preference; there's nothing wrong with that.


However, to praise a game and ignore its shortcomings - no matter if it's Gran Turismo 7, Sport, 3 (A-spec) or whatever iteration it is - is a textbook case of nostalgia glasses in action.

Ok, I'll go back into my shed.

#GrumpyOldPlayer

I don't think anyone is disagreeing that GT4 did some things worse than GT7? That is expected, it's a 20 year older game.

People talk about its better qualities because a 2022 game shouldn't have regressions over something that came out almost 20 years before. This is all a non point.

 

[i386]

Gran Turismo 4 didn't have any way to add content, have true online competition, online multiplayer, livery editor and the like.

Technically pd could have added updates and online features; The ps2 allows updates to be installed on the memory card (that's how freemcboot works) and sony sold the hard drive + network adapter.

 

[RandomCarGuy17]

My frustration with the "GT4 Was The Best Ever" trend that's going through this thread basically boils down to this:

It's fine to praise Gran Turismo 4 for what it did, but don't dare take into account what it didn't do.


For those who champion Gran Turismo 4, I have the following question:

Would you support that game if it were released - as is - today?


Or - and this is my guess - would you complain about the:

• Graphics
• Physics
• Lack of livery editor
• Lack of Online lobbies
• Lack of updates
• No custom races
• No 2K/4K/VR/HDR/60FPS
• Etc. .

No, I take into account the shortcomings of past GT titles, I would play Gran Turismo 4 as is today with a smile on my face as I still find the core game fun. If I have to trade those things to have a fun single-player experience again, so be it.

Gran Turismo 4 didn't have any way to add content, have true online competition, online multiplayer, livery editor and the like. PD could only put everything they had on the one disk you purchased and that was it. It was great for what it was, but Gran Turismo 7 is far better even if you only look at what a single player can do and experience.

• Number of races? Custom Races would like a word.
• Ways to drive cars? Missions & Licenses would like a word as well.

Don't make me tap the sign:

In regards to custom race mode, while making my own races can be fun. They don't make up for GT7's extremely short GT Cafe mode for me for a few reasons.

1. They don't pay well enough even after Spec 2.0, I would say 2-4x the current value would be enough.
2. You can only pick only cars in your garage, it should be like in Forza Horizon 5 where you can pick any car as an opponent without owning it.
3. No ability to change color/livery to opponent cars unless once again; you buy a bunch of clones and give them each a different livery. The fact you have to do that is insane when there's racing games before GT7 that allowed you that exact freedom, this is just a needless restriction.
4. The A.I. is too slow.

With that said, it shouldn't be a fill in for a career mode anyway, but rather a bonus mode. It's become a pet peeve of mine whenever companies think that because they made this mode, that means it's automatically okay to short-shaft somewhere else.

Seriously, this "just use custom race" excuse needs to stop.

Ways to drive cars? Missions & Licenses would like a word as well.

GT4 had those things too and if I'm honest, more licenses was one thing GT7 didn't need nor did I want it. I didn't even like GT4's slog of 16 tests per license.

Looking at your cars and taking pictures? Photomode is vastly improved and expanded.

It is, but pictures weren't my drive to wanting to play a racing game.

The idea of the game being "over" once you finish menu book 39(?) makes the following statement: Rather than exploring all the single player options Gran Turismo 7 has to offer, you choose to complain that it does not pull you by the hand to explore other portions of the game.

It's a preference; there's nothing wrong with that.

However, to praise a game and ignore its shortcomings - no matter if it's Gran Turismo 7, Sport, 3 (A-spec) or whatever iteration it is - is a textbook case of nostalgia glasses in action.

Ok, I'll go back into my shed.

and I'm going to end off with this. Most people making arguments against GT7 are aware of the shortcomings of past games. GT2 (my favorite game in the series) is nowhere near as realistic to drive nor as pretty as GT7 and has less features, but I still go back and play that several times more than GT7 because the core single player experience is more fun to play and re-play.

and as Nebuc72 said, the big problem is that with the improvements GT7 made; it shouldn't have the regressions in things that the older games had. Having online racing automatically doesn't mean they can slack on the single player experience, having custom race mode does NOT mean that either as I pointed out above.

 

[Raf997]

No, I take into account the shortcomings of past GT titles, I would play Gran Turismo 4 as is today with a smile on my face as I still find the core game fun. If I have to trade those things to have a fun single-player experience again, so be it.

Don't make me tap the sign:

Seriously, this "just use custom race" excuse needs to stop.

GT4 had those things too and if I'm honest, more licenses was one thing GT7 didn't need nor did I want it. I didn't even like GT4's slog of 16 tests per license.

It is, but pictures weren't my drive to wanting to play a racing game.

and I'm going to end off with this. Most people making arguments against GT7 are aware of the shortcomings of past games. GT2 (my favorite game in the series) is nowhere near as realistic to drive nor as pretty as GT7 and has less features, but I still go back and play that several times more than GT7 because the core single player experience is more fun to play and re-play.

and as Nebuc72 said, the big problem is that with the improvements GT7 made; it shouldn't have the regressions in things that the older games had. Having online racing automatically doesn't mean they can slack on the single player experience, having custom race mode does NOT mean that either as I pointed out above.

Yes, you have a point. However, we should try to understand PD because the amount of work to pull up all of these graphics, physics, sounds, cars, tracks and features was really huge. Keep in mind that every mere car or track takes 6-9 months to be made. And we are talking about a single car... Let alone all the rest.. No wonder they couldn't finish finish the game in time, plus (other than that) they needed time to optimize the game to work on the aging PS4.

Second of all, GT4 had many more events simply because the singleplayer mode was the solely focus of the game and cars, tracks and stuff have been taken much less time to make so they could have flesh out stuff much faster than what they are doing now.


Third of all, GT7 is still maturing and receiving constant free updates (almost) every month, which is nothing to be complained about and it is getting larger and larger every month and imagine where we could end up with another 1-3 big updates (starting from the one coming this month). It will never exceed the longevity of GT4, but it may match GT Sport and GT3 and come fairly close to GT5 which is not bad at all considering the overall quality/realism that the game bears. GT7 is objectively the better game, altough GT4 is much older ofc so the comparison would not be really fair.

 

[PSN offapple]

It might even be argued that the only game GT7 can be fairly compared to in terms of its content, is GT Sport, since Sport was when Polyphony decided to start from scratch again content-wise.

Similar logic is why we don't compare GT6's mammoth car list with Sport & 7, because since Polyphony started from scratch rather than having a back catalogue that was ported over from the previous game, the car count isn't a fair comparison.

Ever since Sport, the games have been in a rebuilding phase to get back to roughly where the older games were, but with overall higher quality. We've seen this through the gradual return of things such as cars, tracks, tuning & customisation, the Used Car Dealership, car maintenance, more lobby settings etc.

Gonna use the funny Forza phrase:
"Built from the ground up"

So comparing GT7's campaign with GT Sport's is the most fair we can get. Evidently with GT7 Polyphony wanted to try something a bit more experimental than the GT League was in GT Sport. Some might prefer it. Others might prefer a return to convention. And still others might feel there's a good way to mix both.

 

[Talon16]

Seriously, this "just use custom race" excuse needs to stop.

Agreed. The custom race option has its own set of flaws. If I am mistaken on any of this, as I don't do these very often, I'll eat crow.

-You can't tell the AI to use a specific set of tires. They run their OE tires and there's nothing you can do about it. Even if you use a garage Gr3 car which you put RS tires on, they still come into custom races with RH tires.

-You can't set up a race with say five McLaren F1s and three Porsche GT1s unless you own five McLaren F1s and three Porsche GT1s. Something that is ridiculous for most players if you want to use many cars as we're talking about 130,000,000 credits for this one race example.

-You can't mandate pit stops for the AI cars for new - or different - tires.

-You can't mandate the AI take on fuel. Sure, you can put a fuel multiplier on but I've seen the AI do insane amount of laps on a tank. Ie, one of the hour long mission races I had to pit three times for fuel and one of the AI didn't pit at all.

-AI still cheats and rubberbands like mad even if boost is set to off. Let me explain: as an example, Daytona RC for Manu I will set up custom races to mimic WS events to get an idea of tire wear and the like (one make, one car so the only AI competitor is the same car I have). After two laps I am 5+ seconds ahead of the AI car. Even on expert difficulty the AI is slow. After 5-6 laps my purple lap will get beat by something insane like TWO SECONDS. Next lap I will be purple through S1 by .500" then come the straights be red by .500" conveying I am faster through the turns but when we hit the oval the AI is getting much too high of a top end. And it goes both ways - if you're behind the car in front starts driving so slow. Super lame.

There are probably more I am not thinking of at the moment.

 

[RandomCarGuy17]

Yes, you have a point. However, we should try to understand PD because the amount of work to pull up all of these graphics, physics, sounds, cars, tracks and features was really huge. Keep in mind that every mere car or track takes 6-9 months to be made. And we are talking about a single car... Let alone all the rest.. No wonder they couldn't finish finish the game in time, plus (other than that) they needed time to optimize the game to work on the aging PS4.

Second of all, GT4 had many more events simply because the singleplayer mode was the solely focus of the game and cars, tracks and stuff have been taken much less time to make so they could have flesh out stuff much faster than what they are doing now.

I have taken all of those factors into account and it is indeed huge, I'm not doubting the scale of what PD's teams were doing here. However, they end up becoming a moot point when the core single-player experience becomes hollow.

In which isn't an excuse, I doubt the time and resources it takes is the same to make new events for GT7 as that it would to fully model 1 car. It really feels like they're sandbagging here. And Raf, you realize the same teams working on cars aren't the same teams working on GT Cafe mode right?

Third of all, GT7 is still maturing and receiving constant free updates (almost) every month, which is nothing to be complained about

Disagree to an extent, it's cool that we're still getting free content, but free content doesn't mean they're free from criticism.

which is nothing to be complained about and it is getting larger and larger every month and imagine where we could end up with another 1-3 big updates (starting from the one coming this month). It will never exceed the longevity of GT4, but it may match GT Sport and GT3 and come fairly close to GT5 which is not bad at all

and it feels like you ignored a point I made prior. The issue here is not only the length, but the fact they're taking 2+ years past launch date to do that. A full career mode of GT3's caliber at least should've been here at launch, not years after launch. Especially with a game that was being developed for 5 years.

You can excuse them for choosing to do that, but that's one thing I will NOT excuse them for. They made choices to plan the career this way and they're poor decisions.

 

[sswishbone]

My frustration with the "GT4 Was The Best Ever" trend that's going through this thread basically boils down to this:

It's fine to praise Gran Turismo 4 for what it did, but don't dare take into account what it didn't do.


For those who champion Gran Turismo 4, I have the following question:

Would you support that game if it were released - as is - today?


Or - and this is my guess - would you complain about the:

• Graphics
• Physics
• Lack of livery editor
• Lack of Online lobbies
• Lack of updates
• No custom races
• No 2K/4K/VR/HDR/60FPS
• Etc. . .

Gran Turismo 4 didn't have any way to add content, have true online competition, online multiplayer, livery editor and the like. PD could only put everything they had on the one disk you purchased and that was it. It was great for what it was, but Gran Turismo 7 is far better even if you only look at what a single player can do and experience.

• Number of races? Custom Races would like a word.
• Ways to drive cars? Missions & Licenses would like a word as well.
• Looking at your cars and taking pictures? Photomode is vastly improved and expanded.

By no means is the above a complete list.

The idea of the game being "over" once you finish menu book 39(?) makes the following statement: Rather than exploring all the single player options Gran Turismo 7 has to offer, you choose to complain that it does not pull you by the hand to explore other portions of the game.


It's a preference; there's nothing wrong with that.


However, to praise a game and ignore its shortcomings - no matter if it's Gran Turismo 7, Sport, 3 (A-spec) or whatever iteration it is - is a textbook case of nostalgia glasses in action.

Ok, I'll go back into my shed.

#GrumpyOldPlayer

I support it, go watch my let's play from last summer for proof

 

[GTP_reddevil]

Agreed. The custom race option has its own set of flaws. If I am mistaken on any of this, as I don't do these very often, I'll eat crow.

-You can't tell the AI to use a specific set of tires. They run their OE tires and there's nothing you can do about it. Even if you use a garage Gr3 car which you put RS tires on, they still come into custom races with RH tires.

-You can't set up a race with say five McLaren F1s and three Porsche GT1s unless you own five McLaren F1s and three Porsche GT1s. Something that is ridiculous for most players if you want to use many cars as we're talking about 130,000,000 credits for this one race example.

-You can't mandate pit stops for the AI cars for new - or different - tires.

-You can't mandate the AI take on fuel. Sure, you can put a fuel multiplier on but I've seen the AI do insane amount of laps on a tank. Ie, one of the hour long mission races I had to pit three times for fuel and one of the AI didn't pit at all.

-AI still cheats and rubberbands like mad even if boost is set to off. Let me explain: as an example, Daytona RC for Manu I will set up custom races to mimic WS events to get an idea of tire wear and the like. After two laps I am 5+ seconds ahead of the AI cars. Even on expert difficulty the AI is slow. After 5-6 laps my purple lap will get beat by something insane like TWO SECONDS. Next lap I will be purple through S1 by .500" then come the straights be red by .500" conveying I am faster through the turns but when we hit the oval the AI is getting much too high of a top end. And it goes both ways - if you're behind the car in front starts driving so slow. Super lame.

There are probably more I am not thinking of at the moment.

You can’t even adjust driver aids on AI opponent cars - some cars have ASM on and others don’t.

 

[Raf997]

I have taken all of those factors into account and it is indeed huge, I'm not doubting the scale of what PD's teams were doing here. However, they end up becoming a moot point when the core single-player experience becomes hollow.

In which isn't an excuse, I doubt the time it takes same same time and resources to make new events for GT7 that it would to fully model 1 car. It really feels like they're sandbagging here. And Raf, you realize the same teams working on cars aren't the same teams working on GT Cafe mode right?


Disagree to an extent, it's cool that we're still getting free content, but free content doesn't mean they're free from criticism.

and it feels like you ignored a point I made prior. The issue here is not only the length, but the fact they're taking 2+ years past launch date to do that. A full career mode of GT3's caliber at least should've been here at launch, not years after launch. Especially with a game that was being developed for 5 years.

You can excuse them for choosing to do that, but that's one thing I will NOT excuse them for. They made choices to plan the career this way and they're poor decisions.

Ok, I get what you meant and I mostly agree with your point.

 

[Revengel]

No, I take into account the shortcomings of past GT titles, I would play Gran Turismo 4 as is today with a smile on my face as I still find the core game fun. If I have to trade those things to have a fun single-player experience again, so be it.

Later in your response, you say you play Gran Turismo 2 more often than Gran Turismo 7. Is that true for Gran Turismo 4? And what kind of TV/monitor are you playing these on?

Or - in case I misunderstood you - is it that you would prefer Gran Turismo 2 or 4 if they were released for PS4/5?

I no longer have a CRT in my house, but that's me.

Don't make me tap the sign:

Seriously, this "just use custom race" excuse needs to stop.

It does as much as this "I want the developer to make every single thing for me" has to stop.

Some people prefer to have the flexibility to have a race at Spa where they start first, last, 7th or whatever based on what they want to do. Others would rather have all these things done to the players specifications in advance by the developer either instead of or in addition to the ability to customize a race. You seem to fall in this second category.

GT4 had those things too and if I'm honest, more licenses was one thing GT7 didn't need nor did I want it. I didn't even like GT4's slog of 16 tests per license.

Fair enough. While I've always loved the license part of the game, I am not the Lorax and do not speak for the trees.

It is, but pictures weren't my drive to wanting to play a racing game.

Same as the last response.


A key thing that often gets missed in these threads/discussions/spirited debates is each game is not made for one person or even a group of one person. It's made for thousands of different tastes. That's why you see so many complaints when a game provides an update that not everyone likes/loves/wants.

Should the track editor return while that should in theory address the lack of tracks people complain about, it won't by a wide margin.

and I'm going to end off with this. Most people making arguments against GT7 are aware of the shortcomings of past games. GT2 (my favorite game in the series) is nowhere near as realistic to drive nor as pretty as GT7 and has less features, but I still go back and play that several times more than GT7 because the core single player experience is more fun to play and re-play.

As noted above. And it's a preference; nobody should take umbrage with what you want to go back and re-play.

Most of my single-player experience actually isn't racing . . . it's just driving in a random car in V.R. No A.I. to dodge. No players to run me off the course. Just the experience of driving the car.

Honorable mention: liveries.

and as Nebuc72 said, the big problem is that with the improvements GT7 made; it shouldn't have the regressions in things that the older games had. Having online racing automatically doesn't mean they can slack on the single player experience, having custom race mode does NOT mean that either as I pointed out above.

No matter how many races or what the format, a pre-made race will disappoint a chunk of users. By providing tools to create custom events, PD (and other developers) try to strike the balance between leading the player through the game and allowing the player the freedom to play as they wish.

Granted that's just my opinion. I may be wrong.

 

[ruestchiva]

Someone with inside information on what the hell is coming this week? I have a very strong feeling that the Autozam AZ-1 is coming. Also, the NB Miata. But I would definitely bet on the AZ-1.

 

[Raf997]

Someone with inside information on what the hell is coming this week? I have a very strong feeling that the Autozam AZ-1 is coming. Also, the NB Miata. But I would definitely bet on the AZ-1.

I think the track is gonna be Gilles Villenueve

 

[Revengel]

Someone with inside information on what the hell is coming this week? I have a very strong feeling that the Autozam AZ-1 is coming. Also, the NB Miata. But I would definitely bet on the AZ-1.

Please let that be true. I would drive the hamfat out of that car even if it can only go at walking speed. 🙃

 

[wowbaggerBR]

My frustration with the "GT4 Was The Best Ever" trend that's going through this thread basically boils down to this:

It's fine to praise Gran Turismo 4 for what it did, but don't dare take into account what it didn't do.


For those who champion Gran Turismo 4, I have the following question:

Would you support that game if it were released - as is - today?


Or - and this is my guess - would you complain about the:

• Graphics
• Physics
• Lack of livery editor
• Lack of Online lobbies
• Lack of updates
• No custom races
• No 2K/4K/VR/HDR/60FPS
• Etc. . .

Gran Turismo 4 didn't have any way to add content, have true online competition, online multiplayer, livery editor and the like. PD could only put everything they had on the one disk you purchased and that was it. It was great for what it was, but Gran Turismo 7 is far better even if you only look at what a single player can do and experience.

• Number of races? Custom Races would like a word.
• Ways to drive cars? Missions & Licenses would like a word as well.
• Looking at your cars and taking pictures? Photomode is vastly improved and expanded.

By no means is the above a complete list.

The idea of the game being "over" once you finish menu book 39(?) makes the following statement: Rather than exploring all the single player options Gran Turismo 7 has to offer, you choose to complain that it does not pull you by the hand to explore other portions of the game.


It's a preference; there's nothing wrong with that.


However, to praise a game and ignore its shortcomings - no matter if it's Gran Turismo 7, Sport, 3 (A-spec) or whatever iteration it is - is a textbook case of nostalgia glasses in action.

Ok, I'll go back into my shed.

#GrumpyOldPlayer

what.

What sort of argument is this? "Oh, praising the Porsche 917K is dumb! Would you really like if it was released that way now?". "So you think the first iPhone was revolutionary, but would you think that way if it was launched today?". Check mate, GT4 apologists!

Games are a product of their time, of course people are aware that past titles had its faults: sounds are really bad, for instance, in GT4. But the thing is: I have NEVER felt the need to sort some PS3 to play GT5 or GT6, GT Sport was done for me after a few weeks, I just would go back to it to design liveries, not to play it as a racing game, a similar issue I have now with GT7 and its catastrophically grindy economy and barebones carreer structure.

Bad sounds or not, I am at my 4th PS2 just to play one game: GT4. I have NEVER stopped playing it despite its faults because the sheer scope and greatness of its massive amount of content never lost any appeal to me. I actually have a pretty powerful smartphone capable of running the modded game. So I guess I'll just keep playing this for the next 20 years.

Nobody is advocating Poliphony to simply go back and make a new game out of GT4, in fact one of the biggest issues with Poliphony is precisely its lethargy to adapt. People are just pointing out that, this developer, once, had the balls to go all out and come up with something that, 20 damn years later, still is regarded by many as the greatest racing game ever and not only by the GT community. The point here is: why is that the same developer and producer got so lost and confused at times with game design to the extent that no title released after GT4 could match it.

You said everything is a matter of preference. Fair enough, but when so many different players, from different backgrounds and levels of experience, some introduced to the series with GT7, are complaining about the same thing, well, maybe you should take their point of view more seriously.

• Number of races? Custom Races would like a word.
• Ways to drive cars? Missions & Licenses would like a word as well.
• Looking at your cars and taking pictures? Photomode is vastly improved and expanded.

By no means is the above a complete list.

And with all of that, still, have less content than GT4.

• GT4 had the arcade mode and, to me, feels the same, so I don't know what are you getting at here
• GT4 had those as well and I might add, as always, in greater numbers. And there's no point in praising GT7 for these, since they are once and done
• GT4 had proper endurance races
• GT4 have a photo mode. Yes, it isn't as impressive as GT7's, but then again: who cares? We are discussing lack of content in the single player mode. Taking pictures is a feature, not a core structure within the game
• I mean, if we are throwing random stuff that doesn't have much to do with the single player campaign mode, GT4 had the B-Spec mode

And, as @RandomCarGuy17 said, let's stop pretending that the custom race feature is in any way a replacement of single player breath and scope of content. It isn't.

 

[RandomCarGuy17]

Later in your response, you say you play Gran Turismo 2 more often than Gran Turismo 7. Is that true for Gran Turismo 4? And what kind of TV/monitor are you playing these on?

I used GT2 more often as it's my favorite in the series, but I would also say the same for GT4. I probably have played GT1-4 each more times and I have played GT7 at this point and I use a 1080p HP monitor to play them on or my 4k LG TV. I don't need a CRT to enjoy older games.

It does as much as this "I want the developer to make every single thing for me" has to stop.

It really doesn't, because this isn't that kind of argument.

Some people prefer to have the flexibility to have a race at Spa where they start first, last, 7th or whatever based on what they want to do. Others would rather have all these things done to the players specifications in advance by the developer either instead of or in addition to the ability to customize a race. You seem to fall in this second category.

and yet neither option in the game is fully fleshed out as it should be. For reasons I and others have already said, but you continue to ignore and treat it like everything is fine.

A key thing that often gets missed in these threads/discussions/spirited debates is each game is not made for one person or even a group of one person. It's made for thousands of different tastes. That's why you see so many complaints when a game provides an update that not everyone likes/loves/wants.

Should the track editor return while that should in theory address the lack of tracks people complain about, it won't by a wide margin.

I can see your point here and in the previous point that you think different tastes that PD has to adhere to and that is why GT7 is the way it is. But unfortunately, there is WAY more problems with PD than that. The issues are down to bad decisions that they continue to make and didn't have to make, but they did anyway.

The things I and others were complaining about were things the team working on those parts of the game could have implemented at launch. It's not unreasonable to expect a fun career mode that makes full use of the content they have made and even a complete custom race experience.

As noted above. And it's a preference; nobody should take umbrage with what you want to go back and re-play.

Most of my single-player experience actually isn't racing . . . it's just driving in a random car in V.R. No A.I. to dodge. No players to run me off the course. Just the experience of driving the car.

and it's cool that's your preference with the game, that doesn't excuse the problems the game has and they are problems. and yes, I can say my preference is a game with a fun single-player experience and outweighed by the people that just want to race against others online. However, the job of PD is to adhere to each audience that they are targeting and they did not do that.

No matter how many races or what the format, a pre-made race will disappoint a chunk of users. By providing tools to create custom events, PD (and other developers) try to strike the balance between leading the player through the game and allowing the player the freedom to play as they wish.

Granted that's just my opinion. I may be wrong.

Once again, I see your point here, but unfortunately it doesn't work the best as an argument.

While there will indeed always be disappointed players even if GT7 was basically like any of the early GT's career mode structure with a more reasonable economy, a better custom race mode; plus all of the other things GT7 has now. The amount of unhappy players however would be significantly less than now with the current mindset they had with this game in.

 

[Revengel]

what.

What sort of argument is this? "Oh, praising the Porsche 917K is dumb! Would you really like if it was released that way now?". "So you think the first iPhone was revolutionary, but would you think that way if it was launched today?". Check mate, GT4 apologists!

Took the words right out of my mouth . . . even if it was sarcasm.

The 914K was awesome when it came out, but it still has shortcomings. To suggest it's superior to cars like the LMP Hybrids dashing around LeMans is straight stupidity. Hopefully you are not in that category.

To say the 914K (or iPhone) was awesome for when it was released but doesn't hold up to modern standards would be fair, however that is not what's going on.

GT4 was great for what it was, but it does not hold up to modern standards. Be fair and admit it was only perfect in a persons memory.

Bad sounds or not, I am at my 4th PS2 just to play one game: GT4. I have NEVER stopped playing it despite its faults because the sheer scope and greatness of its massive amount of content never lost any appeal to me. I actually have a pretty powerful smartphone capable of running the modded game. So I guess I'll just keep playing this for the next 20 years.

No argument against that at all.

Nobody is advocating Poliphony to simply go back and make a new game out of GT4, in fact one of the biggest issues with Poliphony is precisely its lethargy to adapt. People are just pointing out that, this developer, once, had the balls to go all out and come up with something that, 20 damn years later, still is regarded by many as the greatest racing game ever and not only by the GT community.

Leaked sales figures state otherwise; there's an article on GT Planet covering that fact.

The point here is: why is that the same developer and producer got so lost at confused at times with game design to the extent that no title released after GT4 could match it.

You said everything is a matter of preference. Fair enough, but when so many different players, from different backgrounds and levels of experience, some introduced to the series with GT7, are complaining about the same thing, well, maybe you should take their point of view more seriously.

And with all of that, still, have less content than GT4.

• GT4 had the arcade mode and, to me, feels the same, so I don't know what are you getting at here

I remember and loved arcade mode since Gran Turismo. The two are not even close to the same thing, but you feel they are. It's all about preferences, I guess.

• GT4 had those as well and I might add, as always, in greater numbers
• GT4 have a photo mode. Yes, it isn't as impressive as GT7's, but then again: who cares? We are discussing lack of content in the single player mode. Taking pictures is a feature, not a core structure within the game

For you. There's a whole cottage industry in the Gran Turismo community focused around photo mode and liveries.

Remember, this game is no more made for just you than it is for just me.

• I mean, if we are throwing random stuff that doesn't have much to do with the single player campaign mode, GT4 had the B-Spec mode

It's all single player mode, so it's relevant.

I mean I could just bring in online multiplayer mode and your objective argument disintegrates. So many races with other players means no two races are the same. Combine that with the rotating weekly races and you have more options than GT4 by a wide margin. Feel free to add the GTWS seasons and the debate - which was over as soon as online showed up - is even more completed. Toss in online multiplayer and it's beating the grease spot where the dead horse once was.

And, as @RandomCarGuy17 said, let's stop pretending that the custom race feature is in any way a replacement of single player breath and scope of content. It isn't.

As soon as your side drops the "the developer should make everything for us" debate, I think this is a valid stance to take. But I don't expect you or your side to drop that argument . . . so neither should I or my side ignore the ability to make what we want to a significant degree.

 

[PSN offapple]

This is gonna keep on going and going isn't it...

I was looking through the forums and found this:

GT4 General Discussion and Questions

This is a general discussion thread for all Gran Turismo 4 anticipants. I want customized second hand car lots. Something like Eddy's Exotics or Bargains by Barry.

www.gtplanet.net

The last post was over a year ago, but still.

Side note, I also found an ancient manuscript (2008) from Famine regarding emulation at the time. The stance on that by GTP may have changed or remained the same since then, but it's a neat bit of history.

Emulation - Piracy by another name

Please be aware that discussing emulation - including specific emulation software, how to obtain it and access to game images for it - is directly akin to discussing game piracy. GTPlanet's Acceptable Use Policy says: *You will not use the forums to violate any laws nor to discuss illegal...

www.gtplanet.net

 

[Revengel]

I used GT2 more often as it's my favorite in the series, but I would also say the same for GT4. I probably have played GT1-4 each more times and I have played GT7 at this point and I use a 1080p HP monitor to play them on or my 4k LG TV. I don't need a CRT to enjoy older games.

Fair enough.

It really doesn't, because this isn't that kind of argument.

and yet neither option in the game is fully fleshed out as it should be. For reasons I and others have already said, but you continue to ignore and treat it like everything is fine.

While I don't think Gran Turismo 7 is anywhere near perfect, there are two things I do that I don't see others demonstrating:

1. I very much appreciate what I have in Gran Turismo 7. VR, scapes, free updates, the ability to customize a race if one I want to do doesn't exist, free updates, car collecting, etc.
2. The game is not meant for just one taste. There is and always will be something players will and won't care for.

Just because I don't complain about this aspect or that issue with the game doesn't mean I ignore any shortcomings. Related, what I find a shortcoming and what you find a shortcoming may well be different things.

Is that at least one point on which we can agree?

I can see your point here and in the previous point that you think different tastes that PD has to adhere to and that is why GT7 is the way it is. But unfortunately, there is WAY more problems with PD than that. The issues are down to bad decisions that they continue to make and didn't have to make, but they did anyway.

Some decisions I may agree were bad, but others likely not so much. I have yet to meet the perfect game.

The things I and others were complaining about were things the team working on those parts of the game could have implemented at launch. It's not unreasonable to expect a fun career mode that makes full use of the content they have made and even a complete custom race experience.

Some of this is going to be limited in terms of what they can do.
E.G. an A.I. slider for custom races. We have one (beginner/intermediate/professional) but some players want more control.
E.G. 2 is Sophy - the best A.I. in sim racing. It's limited to PS5 and only a handful of short events.

To flesh things out "fully" is dependent on two things:

First: an agreement what "fully fleshed out" means in this case. Opinions will vary greatly on that.
Second: the resources available to implement said fully fleshed out system.

and it's cool that's your preference with the game, that doesn't excuse the problems the game has and they are problems. and yes, I can say my preference is a game with a fun single-player experience and outweighed by the people that just want to race against others online. However, the job of PD is to adhere to each audience that they are targeting and they did not do that.

There are some technical issues that I would agree are problems, but there are choices in game directions that aren't problems . . . they are simply preferences a number of players do and don't like.

There are folks who only play this game for online multiplayer. There are technical problems with that side - those are problems - but as you are not an online player . . . they don't impact you. Your stated preference would be to concentrate on single player. The fact GT7 single player is not built like GT Sport (remember that issue?) or GT4 is not a problem it is a decision a number of players - you included - don't like.

PD targeted the E-sports/online racing crowd (building off GT Sport) with the sport mode, the art crowd with the livery section, single players (a very vocal crowd at the start of GT Sport) with cafe, missions, licenses and custom races, and shutterbugs with the photo mode. Then they sprinkled other bits around for car collecting buffs (who knew Haggerty would be here?) and other aspects of car culture to create the game we have and - some of us - enjoy.

Once again, I see your point here, but unfortunately it doesn't work the best as an argument.

While there will indeed always be disappointed players even if GT7 was basically like any of the early GT's career mode structure with a more reasonable economy, a better custom race mode; plus all of the other things GT7 has now. The amount of unhappy players however would be significantly less than now with the current mindset they had with this game in.

I somewhat agree with your position here . . . but I don't think it would be significantly less. There are tons of folks who are only in this game for the online aspect. There will always be people upset with an economy-based game, no matter how easy credits are to come by. However, you'll still get complaints if you remove the credit requirements and either replace them with something else (Forza - you gotta drive the car a certain amount before you upgrade anything) or replace it with nothing. With every car unlocked from the start, many would have nothing to work for. Game is fun for a month or two and that's it.

No matter what any game does or tries to do, some will like it and some won't.

Hopefully we found some middle ground.

 

[RandomCarGuy17]

As soon as your side drops the "the developer should make everything for us" debate, I think this is a valid stance to take. But I don't expect you or your side to drop that argument . . . so neither should I or my side ignore the ability to make what we want to a significant degree.

There's nothing to drop, because that's not what my or his argument is at all. It's that "the developer should give EACH PART of the game equal care" and they clearly don't. This has been an ongoing problem since GT5 I would argue.

 

[wagnerFAM98]

I'm really curious to see how the update is going to be revealed. Even the folks who know what's coming may be excited to see this as well, because they might know the content, but I'm almost sure they don't know how PD's going to deliver it for us on Saturday.

 

[LammersXJR]

I'm really curious to see how the update is going to be revealed. Even the folks who know what's coming may be excited to see this as well, because they might know the content, but I'm almost sure they don't know how PD's going to deliver it for us on Saturday.

Does anyone actually know what's coming?

There's solid indications regarding cars for those in the know. But given we've technically missed a month who knows what's in the works. Could still be another 4 weeks before the July update is released.

Regarding a track, release dates seem even harder to call unless there's a specific event imminent.

 

[PlanetJanet]

If Custom Race actually worked properly and had a few more features, I genuinely and truly wouldn't bother with anything else. I would infinitely prefer this to a career mode made by PD. I'm not trying to convince anyone else that I'm right, it's just how I feel. I'm sure I am not alone.

 

[sswishbone]

And that's fine, however, it should never be on the players to fix poor game design via a custom mode

 

[PlanetJanet]

And that's fine, however, it should never be on the players to fix poor game design via a custom mode

Meh. I genuinely don't care about this at all. If PD give me the tools to make the game I want, I'm all for it.

 

[sswishbone]

Meh. I genuinely don't care about this at all. If PD give me the tools to make the game I want, I'm all for it.

So long as they give you a pay packet.

 

[Raf997]

It might even be argued that the only game GT7 can be fairly compared to in terms of its content, is GT Sport, since Sport was when Polyphony decided to start from scratch again content-wise.

Similar logic is why we don't compare GT6's mammoth car list with Sport & 7, because since Polyphony started from scratch rather than having a back catalogue that was ported over from the previous game, the car count isn't a fair comparison.

Ever since Sport, the games have been in a rebuilding phase to get back to roughly where the older games were, but with overall higher quality. We've seen this through the gradual return of things such as cars, tracks, tuning & customisation, the Used Car Dealership, car maintenance, more lobby settings etc.

Gonna use the funny Forza phrase:
"Built from the ground up"

So comparing GT7's campaign with GT Sport's is the most fair we can get. Evidently with GT7 Polyphony wanted to try something a bit more experimental than the GT League was in GT Sport. Some might prefer it. Others might prefer a return to convention. And still others might feel there's a good way to mix both.

GT1, GT2 and GT6 have less content than GT7

 

[PlanetJanet]

So long as they give you a pay packet.

Pay me to enjoy their game? It doesn't usually work that way but I won't say no...

I know that you feel strongly about this because you've mentioned it before but I can't really engage with it because I do not share or understand your concern. I don't know if it's a principle thing but for me it's just a nothing so I don't really know what to say. 🤷‍♂️

 

[PSN offapple]

Pay me to enjoy their game? It doesn't usually work that way but I won't say no...

I know that you feel strongly about this because you've mentioned it before but I can't really engage with it because I do not share or understand your concern. I don't know if it's a principle thing but for me it's just a nothing so I don't really know what to say. 🤷‍♂️

I suppose it could be likened to a game that relies on community created mods rather than official developer content.
Best relevant example of that I can think of is the original Assetto Corsa, which supposedly no one plays vanilla unless on console where mods aren't possible.

You guys remember "Play, Create, Share" back in the PS3 days? As a veteran of kart racer ModNation I can tell you the community-made content has seen people still playing to this day, and even creating a private online server years after the official ones went down. It even has a Discord server these days.

That's one great example of having players making their own content.