Gran Turismo 7 Physics

Do you want more detailed and realistic physics on the next GT


  • Total voters
    203
  • Poll closed .
Yeah, most of us have same opinion. Im on Logitech G29 and feel like im just playing with controller attached to wheel.

FFB needs to be a lot better and feel what is car doing. If AC/ACC/PC2 and every other sim game can do it even on ****** G29 then its just Polyphony lazy work..
I'm on a G29 and have yet to understand where the lack of feedback is. I have been running my settings at 5/5. I feel the track edge curbing and bumps, albeit not as dramatic as GTSport, but what I feel very much of is the shift and transfers in weight of the car. I've found it to be communicative from my experience so far.
 
which rx8 has 180hp dyno? series 1? cause mazda always tweak their car to make more hp every revision. first gen FD started from 250 the the power builds up to 276hp on the last series.
It was 10-11 years ago... I am not an expert of japanese car versions. Could It Be the first version?
 
I'm on a G29 and have yet to understand where the lack of feedback is. I have been running my settings at 5/5. I feel the track edge curbing and bumps, albeit not as dramatic as GTSport, but what I feel very much of is the shift and transfers in weight of the car. I've found it to be communicative from my experience so far.
I was comparing it to games like ACC/AC/Project Cars 2 on PS5. When comparing with those games GT7 lacks so much in ffb department. I know those are sim games but there is no reason why ffb wouldn't be same in GT7 as those games.
 
I'm not shooting the messenger here but that doesn't make much sense. The snappiness (among other things) is a result of the physics and is compounded by a general lack of feedback.

Fixing it (or attempting) like you say would be putting the cart before the horse.
I thought it was obvious what Tidgeny is saying. They don't want to do BoP now before they fix the physics and then potentially have to do it again afterwards with the new physics.
 
I thought it was obvious what Tidgeny is saying. They don't want to do BoP now before they fix the physics and then potentially have to do it again afterwards with the new physics.
Yeah, I got that.
What I understand from Tidgney is that they will fix weird oversteer without changing the physics and then work on BoP.
That's what I was replying to.
 
Yeah, I got that.

That's what I was replying to.
You said
They didn't want to touch the physics because of the BoP, even though the BoP is a long way from being fair for the lion's share of cars?
But that's not what he said. They DO want to touch the physics, and because of that, they're not going to change BoP yet. They'll fix the physics first, then look at changing BoP.
 
But that's not what he said. They DO want to touch the physics, and because of that, they're not going to change BoP yet. They'll fix the physics first, then look at changing BoP.
Like I said, I got that. What I wrote was based on what venancio said. The snap oversteer, among other things, needs a physics patch. He said they was going to fix it without changing the physics.

Look at my BoP point under that context.
 
Like I said, I got that. What I wrote was based on what venancio said. The snap oversteer, among other things, needs a physics patch. He said they was going to fix it without changing the physics.

Look at my BoP point under that context.
I'm lost at this point to be honest! But yeah, they gonna tweak the physics. Or at least he says that was their plan a week ago.
 
It was 10-11 years ago... I am not an expert of japanese car versions. Could It Be the first version?

No you are correct. He I wrong.

The rx7 had a turbo and 250bhp/276 bhp.

The rx8 had no turbo and was overrated from the factory at either 228bhp or 189bhp and neither really hit those figures on a dyno.
 
In AC, you can only do it with a clutch dump. The example I gave was pure throttle application and steering angle. You can't do this in AC. Across the board, AC is flawed in their understeer aspect and cars that are a bit difficult to handle irl handle like a dream in the game since it's understeer centric.

Do I need to post another video of me doing it? you absolutely can do that in AC.

I really don't know. Not many people irl are placing their cars in that position.

Don't need to put your car in that position irl to know you aren't going to hold a slide like that in 5th and 6th gear in a stock 86 or Rx-8.

People were calling me silly for saying a GT86 shouldn't be able to break traction on its own power in 2nd, or even 3rd. That's not the case. I think it goes back to the issue of ppl using AC as a benchmark.

Where did this happen? also not using AC as the benchmark, using real life as the benchmark, AC is a lot closer to that then GT7 and you just constantly bring up stuff in AC that is false.

For example?

You can tune out a lot of the understeer, oversteer and make it more recoverable but how you drive the cars and how the react is still not realistic, you can not fix the issues with the physics and FFB by doing that.
 
I'm on a G29 and have yet to understand where the lack of feedback is. I have been running my settings at 5/5. I feel the track edge curbing and bumps, albeit not as dramatic as GTSport, but what I feel very much of is the shift and transfers in weight of the car. I've found it to be communicative from my experience so far.
You must be playing a different game than me then, at higher speeds almost all curbs are 100% dead on my T300 as well on a friends G29 with almost every possible combination of FFB settings.

I was surprised when I could feel every curb and bump with the Dualsense controller, it must be an issue with the FFB delivery while it is just coded as vibration for the controller.
 
You must be playing a different game than me then, at higher speeds almost all curbs are 100% dead on my T300 as well on a friends G29 with almost every possible combination of FFB settings.

I was surprised when I could feel every curb and bump with the Dualsense controller, it must be an issue with the FFB delivery while it is just coded as vibration for the controller.
DD pro and some curbs have no FFB at all. They make a noise like they should be giving me some. There’s other FFB issues I hope get fixed like oversteer warning.
 
You must be playing a different game than me then, at higher speeds almost all curbs are 100% dead on my T300 as well on a friends G29 with almost every possible combination of FFB settings.

I was surprised when I could feel every curb and bump with the Dualsense controller, it must be an issue with the FFB delivery while it is just coded as vibration for the controller.
I have t300 and I can feel everything even better than GTS make sure your firmware is updated to v.34 I believe at first I didn’t have the updated version when the ACC PS5 version came out and it killed my wheel… make sure your led is on orange I believe if you have PS5
 
I have t300 and I can feel everything even better than GTS make sure your firmware is updated to v.34 I believe at first I didn’t have the updated version when the ACC PS5 version came out and it killed my wheel… make sure your led is on orange I believe if you have PS5
PS5 mode is red.
 
I have t300 and I can feel everything even better than GTS make sure your firmware is updated to v.34 I believe at first I didn’t have the updated version when the ACC PS5 version came out and it killed my wheel… make sure your led is on orange I believe if you have PS5
It is updated and the light is red. The issues are the exact same as on the G29 and as someone else mentioned, he has the same on a DD pro wheel, so I doubt it is a problem with the wheel.

Both also work perfectly fine on other PC sims as well.
 
It is updated and the light is red. The issues are the exact same as on the G29 and as someone else mentioned, he has the same on a DD pro wheel, so I doubt it is a problem with the wheel.

Both also work perfectly fine on other PC sims as well.
Same issue with my T300, the FFB is really bad. ( in my opinion).
 
I remember when I tested some basic physics, Nordschleife turn 1, stock BMW 3.0 CSL on sport softs, off throttle, 3rd gear, push throttle and rear steps out.
I lauged out loud.

Why is this a problem?
Car has 180hp, is in 3rd gear, on a race track (VERY grippy surface), using the grippiest road legal tires - yet the rear STILL steps out!

This just shouldn't be possible, I owned a 6 cyllinder BMW and I know how difficult it was to get the rear to step out (I had to flick it on street surface in 2nd gear).


GT7 physics is really broken. GT5 had too much grip and FF cars weren't represented well, however, GT7 just ruined all cars.
 
It is updated and the light is red. The issues are the exact same as on the G29 and as someone else mentioned, he has the same on a DD pro wheel, so I doubt it is a problem with the wheel.

Both also work perfectly fine on other PC sims as well.
Yea I’m sorry man I don’t know… I have GTt300rs which came with the clutch pedal.. other than the dead feeling you get when driving straight(it’s better than GTS but not where ACC/AC is) My feedback feels good. Even when the car comes down from the curb I can feel it. The sensation is pretty cool.. My Torque is 3 and my sensitivity is at 1
 
It was 10-11 years ago... I am not an expert of japanese car versions. Could It Be the first version?
After a quick google search the JDM rx8 series 1 and series 2 came with 2 different engine and 2 different transmission, automatic always came with the low power one and the manual 5 speed came with low power, manual 6 speed came with high power. RX8 spirit R came with high power engine only in both manual and automatic. I think GT7 240 hp is about right since they measure engine power not wheel power.
 
Since there has been confirmation from Tidg about progress being made by PD regarding issues and how they have sequenced alterations, let's visit the FFB.

In IRL, tires deform when loaded...and no one really knows the quasi/complex/perplexing nature of rubber as Scaff eluded to earlier. But, I do know they flex when driven spiritedly, and when they do, the forces travel back -- hopefully in a communicative way -- through the steering column and other bits if you are paying attention. So just to be clear, this is typically the level of deformation a road tire has to endure. It's a sever range, and the forces exerted are not linear...the are parabolic...Pls skip ahead if you've seen this.



So if traction/adhesion levels vary dramatically, why is the FFB is GT7 (and most sims) feel one dimensional and need of a severe rethink. As someone stated prior, there is a weird 'rubber band effect' happening and it isn't bad, but it also isn't dynamic either. Before you jump to criticize, I understand the limitations of calculus -- especially on a console. I still enjoy the somewhat communicative nature of my belt-driven TGT...We are just having a bit of a laugh as we enjoy our digital tinker toys.

So here's my exhibit A. An Alfa on the most famous track that we hope will never perish. If you look closely and ascertain how this person is able to sustain being on the limit, you will likely conclude that the FEEDBACK he is getting from multiple senses are informing his judgements. To deconstruct this a bit further -- the wheel goes heavier as he approaches the limit on entry. The chassis flexes as the front left/right bears most of the load and he can feel the G forces in his body as the weight transfers to the front axle. The tires also sing in unison to confirm. Once the limit is crossed due to driver error, things go light and rotation happens in a subtle slip, giving way to a slide that feels like air going out of a balloon. This is just a simple assessment on corner entry...same principles apply on mid and exit, with LSD playing a crucial role. Watch this vid for the 'wiggles,' this for me is what is missing, this little dance, on and off, then back on again, over and over as tires degrade...



In my view, the addictive drama -- brought by the amalgamation of these sensory inputs that drivers feed off of to find pace -- is currently missing in sims. To be fair, I know this is a tall order...but the snap/physics/modeling in GT7 are not the only issues. The FFB that is transmitted is equally important, and arguable for the enthusiasts -- the most important...no matter what the physics.

To PD,...to you who have pursued this for a few decades now, find your North Star and get on it. Current misgivings are just shameful...you are leaving the door wide open for a pass...and competition is coming, don't you doubt that!
 
"limitations of calculus, especially on console"

Care to elaborate on that?

Afaik Ps4 is basically a linux machine optimized to run games. I bet it calculations alots. XD

There are games like RbR and LFS that spank GT7 so hard regarding physics and ffb its rediculous. Those games are soon maybe two decades old. Or more like 15 years. Either way, they embarass GT7 by so much that my opinion is that GT7 is not playable in its current state.

If a rally game from 2006 can beat "the real driving simulator" from 2022 in both ffb feel and physics, what the hell have PD been doing? Time to drop that slogan... How on earth can they not improve on 16year old tech and concepts.... I mean even DR2 tarmac physics feel better than GT7, and thats saying alot.
 
So what I read here again and again, or understand from what is to be read, is: "MiMiMi... the FFB in the game does not rip off my finders or break my wrists while playing due to its strong FFB, I don't feel anything ... That's why the game is so bad and unplayable for me!"

Well if that's how you see it.. then don't play it.. How about that?

For my part, I find here and there the feedback maybe 10-15% too weak and some information "seems" not to be available, or is so extremely thin that it's really hardly noticeable. But even with my T248 I can't find a single point where I would say that it's so bad or weak that I wouldn't want to play the game anymore.

Just yesterday evening I decided to quickly do sector 5 in LeMans again to be able to create a video that shows how I drive there.
And what can I say.. even there I noticed very weakly, but noticeably, that the snap is announced again and again, so I was always able to drive the curves very cleanly, exactly on the limit of what is possible and, if necessary, close the line slightly open to avoid the snap.
(I don't want to discuss the snap itself here, because it's unusual, but when I think about it, it makes sense and is logical)
So for me at least the FFB is given and definitely not a point where I would devalue the game in any way. However, I think some people have very strange expectations of how the FFB should be and how it is in other games... That can also be true for the other games... here it is how it is and why can't you just accept design decisions and try to get involved?
 
I will just add, this is the only driving game I have ever played where I am shaking my head and saying outlays, 'why!?' So many times when a car just snaps or always spins and ends up facing 180 degrees away from forwards ( no matter how many times it has spun around).

It is a game of frustration and it is bewildering tome why the cars snap the way they do.

I am holding my wheel one way and the car is literally deciding to plough the other and it is just odd to me that the game does this.
 
*Citaton needed. also we were not discussing about what driving style is inefficient were we? we were talking about GT7 over the limit tyre physics and how unrealisticly easy it is to lose traction on RWD production cars in GT7.
I don't know. I've seen plenty of videos online of people losing it in the most unexpected ways.

The cars seem pretty dynamic to me on how they react.
Also, he's holding some decent slides in 4th with a stock FRS. But all at high speeds. Also, even at these high speeds, the car wants to oversteer into the corner. These are inherent traits that people have gripes with GT.
Do I need to post another video of me doing it? you absolutely can do that in AC.
Where was the first video? I'd like to see a video of you simply turning the wheel and giving it full throttle to get the car sideways. I sure couldn't do it as others in this thread with other cars.
Don't need to put your car in that position irl to know you aren't going to hold a slide like that in 5th and 6th gear in a stock 86 or Rx-8.
Don't know. Here's a stock AP1 holding a slide in 4th gear. It all has to do with the speed you carry. These have as much torque as a FRS.

Where did this happen? also not using AC as the benchmark, using real life as the benchmark, AC is a lot closer to that then GT7 and you just constantly bring up stuff in AC that is false.
I highly disagree. Understeer is a big inherent issue with AC that throws off the accuracy of stock cars in the game.
You can tune out a lot of the understeer, oversteer and make it more recoverable but how you drive the cars and how the react is still not realistic, you can not fix the issues with the physics and FFB by doing that.
Are you talking about the car on throttle being unstable?
 
I don't know. I've seen plenty of videos online of people losing it in the most unexpected ways.

The cars seem pretty dynamic to me on how they react.
Also, he's holding some decent slides in 4th with a stock FRS. But all at high speeds. Also, even at these high speeds, the car wants to oversteer into the corner. These are inherent traits that people have gripes with GT.

Where was the first video? I'd like to see a video of you simply turning the wheel and giving it full throttle to get the car sideways. I sure couldn't do it as others in this thread with other cars.

Don't know. Here's a stock AP1 holding a slide in 4th gear. It all has to do with the speed you carry. These have as much torque as a FRS.


I highly disagree. Understeer is a big inherent issue with AC that throws off the accuracy of stock cars in the game.

Are you talking about the car on throttle being unstable?


Lift off oversteer! Not power oversteer
You can do that even with the engine turned off into a corner.


Show us a video when someone do a 5th gear power oversteer at 4500rpm in a 86 or Rx-8 please! 150hp cant do that. It is impossible.

On a controller you cant even turn off the countersteer assist fully.
Pd definitely know the rwd grip on throttle is so Broken.
 
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Wow you must be an insider if you know what PD knows, thinks and does......
He is going off of the youtube video Tidgney dropped the other day and was posted in this thread....supposedly Tidgney has an inside line to the studio. Jump to around 1min 30sec. He states that the BoP is going to be looked into, but before PD makes any adjustments to the BoP, they are aware and are at work on the snap/oversteer/physics first, and then will adjust the BoP thereafter.
 

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