Gran Turismo 7 Physics
- Thread starter Shingo_civic
- 6,343 comments
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- 475
- Germany
That's incorrect, there absolutely is dirty air in GT7 just like it was in GT Sport.
Road cars Ferrari still oversteer, strong, but just more correctly than before
PirovacBoy
Premium
- 1,488
- Cologne/Germany
- PirovacBoy
GR3 MR Cars are still trash under BoP Conditions.
Although the Update increased the overall Grip on all sorts of Cars, it actually did nothing to cure the borderline Low Speed/ HairPin Corner Oversteer.
Absolutely uncompetitive.
They are slow, twitchy in low Speeds, and tire Wear even amplifies this idiotic Behavior.
Snap Oversteer might have been drastically reduced especially in MR Cars but in General in all Cars, but overall this Update brought the Game closer back to GTS Driving Physics imo.
Which probably is a good thing for many.
I personally don’t appreciate it, but it is what it is 🤷🏻♂️
To me this Update in Comparison to the Pre 1.13 Update is a Downgrade that did nothing to make Cars behave better but that’s just my personal Opinion.
And I don’t see PD rolling back as they cater to satisfy a wide Audience.
But we‘ll see what Future brings, I won’t give up on GT7 yet…
Edit: I forgot to mention that an open Differential Setting by keeping BoP applied would have solved most if not all of the Problems with MR Cars.
I‘m quite sure PD will adjust the BoP over time, but the main Problem with MR Cars won’t be solved by relying on that alone.
Allow an Open Differential, that’s the Point.
Although the Update increased the overall Grip on all sorts of Cars, it actually did nothing to cure the borderline Low Speed/ HairPin Corner Oversteer.
Absolutely uncompetitive.
They are slow, twitchy in low Speeds, and tire Wear even amplifies this idiotic Behavior.
Snap Oversteer might have been drastically reduced especially in MR Cars but in General in all Cars, but overall this Update brought the Game closer back to GTS Driving Physics imo.
Which probably is a good thing for many.
I personally don’t appreciate it, but it is what it is 🤷🏻♂️
To me this Update in Comparison to the Pre 1.13 Update is a Downgrade that did nothing to make Cars behave better but that’s just my personal Opinion.
And I don’t see PD rolling back as they cater to satisfy a wide Audience.
But we‘ll see what Future brings, I won’t give up on GT7 yet…
Edit: I forgot to mention that an open Differential Setting by keeping BoP applied would have solved most if not all of the Problems with MR Cars.
I‘m quite sure PD will adjust the BoP over time, but the main Problem with MR Cars won’t be solved by relying on that alone.
Allow an Open Differential, that’s the Point.
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Keef
Premium
- 25,140
- Dayton, OH
- GTP_KeefRacer
- GTP Keef
The physics are all over the place now with unexpected results lol. I don't know what they did in 1.13. Previously, all rwd cars oversteered on power and mid-engined cars oversteered just sitting still. Now it's a totally mixed bag and I have no idea what to expect. Also I'm still going through various circuit experiences and finding some cars which I own and drive fine are extremely difficult to drive for some reason. For example, I've been having good luck with the Ford GT Gr3 but the Daytona circuit experience was an absolute bear going into the bus stop.
- 10
- United States
GT is the best of all these titles mentioned on this site. Every other game out there either looks terrible, feels terrible, or plays terrible. GT has always been the best combination of everything that can be desired in a racing title. GT invented physics.
That said, the rain has ruined the games for me. It may even be realistic, but with track conditions like that 75% of races would be canceled. That and the removal of cones as a braking guide. I feel like that is a realistic track feature and it is what I have used for a long while. Now my only choices are to start over like I’ve never played the game before or overlay a huge, unrealistic red graphic on the track like a supernoob. I absolutely despise these two things. Holla if ya hear me!
That said, the rain has ruined the games for me. It may even be realistic, but with track conditions like that 75% of races would be canceled. That and the removal of cones as a braking guide. I feel like that is a realistic track feature and it is what I have used for a long while. Now my only choices are to start over like I’ve never played the game before or overlay a huge, unrealistic red graphic on the track like a supernoob. I absolutely despise these two things. Holla if ya hear me!
- 3,821
- London, Ontario
- voodoovaj
Sure, maybe, you could be right, but you are talking about the real world, and this is not the real world that we are discussing.
All this discussion about tires "in my league" doesn't seem rational to me. I'm saying that given Michelin is a prominent licence in the game, as prominent as any car manufacturer, it stand to reason that the developers used Michelin tires as a reference. So, since there is a Pilot A/S, Pilot Super Sport, and Pilot Cup 2R as Michelin's Sport tire, I imagine those were the tires used as reference for the SH, SM, and SS.
Looking at all possible tire data across all brands is just too much. Also, the Pilot all season tires are standard equipment on many sports cars, like the c8, so again, it stands to reason that would be the reference for an SH tire.
CH would be Michelin Defender or the Energy Save A/S, because those are the harder compound in the passenger car range.
IMHO trying to compare the real world to this game is misguided. If the cars feel real, and the times seem reasonable, that's about as far as the tracks times can go. There's too many factors, and unknowns, to use real world times as an accurate measure.
Let's not forget that time is a massive factor as well when it comes to tire tech. I know that with motorcycles, a modern soft street tire is as grippy (if not more so) than a racing tire from 30 years ago. I wouldn't be surprised to see similar leaps in cars. So, again, the lap time as a measure might be the wrong metric to measure against (especially if you are comparing older cars)
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- 5,677
- Edison NJ
- jdmking13
- Lucid killer 58
How long have you been playing GT for? PD have been using these tire selection forever.. it’s no different because Michelin are partners… I also never said my league was the defining factor when it came to tire choice… I was giving you an example how we treat the tires in GT… if you think the default system is the correct tire choices that’s cool your opinion.. but I do it different and obviously it’s never going to be perfect it’s a game.
In my league regular street tires start at Comfort Hard all the way to Sports Hard… once you get to Sports medium and Softs they are considers semislicks/dedicated track tires..
I will use Michelin brand for example.. For track rating
SS- Michelin Pilot Sport cup2 R
SM- Michelin Pilot Sport cup2
SH- Michelin Pilot Sport cup 2(240)
CS- Michelin Pilot Sport 4S
CS- Michelin Pilot Sport 4
CS- Michilen Pilot Sport 3
CS- Michelin Pilot Super sport
CM- Michelin Pilot Exalto PE2
CM- Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3+
CH- Michelin Primacy HP
Again I’m not saying my league standards are the best or what people should follow I was just giving an example… You want to follow PD stock tire choices that fine but again if I could give you an example the Stock NSX-R 92 comes with SH stock(1.06 gs)… the Oem tires were Bridgestone Stone RE010.. a stock NSX-R can do around 93gs on skidpad… I have the NSX-R on Comfort mediums stock(92.0Gs).. and Comfort hards for hard track days for league play…
The Re010 is old tire tech.. don’t get me wrong when setting up cars tires choices in stock form I take skidpad numbers in consideration also, but the Re010 are old tire tech… the 370z have Re050A which PD also gives the Z SH tires stock form… my thing is how? Re050A are better than the re010 how do they have the same tire choice from stock? The 370z can do around 98.0 on a skidpad stock.. that’s why it gets CS in stock form in my league and CM for hard track days… vs PD SH
Again you want to go by PD stock settings no problem, but just because they partners with Michelin does not make the stock tire choices right in my opinion. Enjoy your Sunday!
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PirovacBoy
Premium
- 1,488
- Cologne/Germany
- PirovacBoy
The biggest Problem with GR3 MRCars when it comes down to handling and Car Behavior is the utterly unbalanced BoP which when applied completely destroys the MR Cars Handling.
Try ANY MR GR3 Car without BoP.
As soon as the Weight is low enough the Cars behave wonderful.
A joy to drive.
You can keep Power low to keep them balanced to the RWD Cars of course, otherwise due to their superior Rotation they would destroy them, but DON‘T add weight to them.
That’s the Crux.
I deeply hope that PD finally addresses this Issue.
They must have the Data that almost no one uses the MR Cars for GTWS for example.
What a pity as these Cars have so much Character compared to the RWD Cars.
No Top Split Drivers choose them, despite many would do so, but what’s the point in trying to compete in an utterly uncompetitive Car?!
Despite their Abilities they absolute Nerf themselves and put them in a disadvantageous Position which simply can’t be compensated, no matter what their Skills might be.
The Cars are just a Crutch 🙄
Try ANY MR GR3 Car without BoP.
As soon as the Weight is low enough the Cars behave wonderful.
A joy to drive.
You can keep Power low to keep them balanced to the RWD Cars of course, otherwise due to their superior Rotation they would destroy them, but DON‘T add weight to them.
That’s the Crux.
I deeply hope that PD finally addresses this Issue.
They must have the Data that almost no one uses the MR Cars for GTWS for example.
What a pity as these Cars have so much Character compared to the RWD Cars.
No Top Split Drivers choose them, despite many would do so, but what’s the point in trying to compete in an utterly uncompetitive Car?!
Despite their Abilities they absolute Nerf themselves and put them in a disadvantageous Position which simply can’t be compensated, no matter what their Skills might be.
The Cars are just a Crutch 🙄
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- 487
- Canada
- Mc_Yavel
FerrariF40
(Banned)
- 404
- Australia
They had years to develop and finetune the physcis. Now we have a mess.
Also GT Sport FFB felt better.
Also GT Sport FFB felt better.
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- 16,480
- Melbourne
- ScottPuss20
- CheetahsMeow
- 1,538
- NRW - GT
I absolutely agree with you, but it's not just these vehicles that the update hasn't done well.... try the Jaguar Gr3. (in the CE Seaside) I found the car to be really good before, although it often had a tendency to understeer, but with a little more gas it was ok....NOW the car has a lot more understeer..Drivable.. yes, but it doesn't feel good.
Very ugly.. the Gr4. RCZ.. sooo much understeer is disgusting.
I'm currently starting on a 2nd account, that means all coffee missions AND licenses ectr. Also with the licenses it is noticeable that some vehicles have a lot more understeer, which can make some tests a more difficult task for one or the other driver.
Yes the BoP settings for differential AND brake balance should be loosened AND would fix a lot of "problems".
But what I also notice now... The FFB has become much flatter and this has made it more difficult to "feel" some vehicles.
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- 3,821
- London, Ontario
- voodoovaj
Maybe my point got lost in all this. I'm just saying that since the game is using a single, simplified tire model with modifiers for characteristics, it's misguided to try and compare lap times. In essence, the real world is using tires, and the game is using something that loosely approximates a tire. In the real world, a tire is far more complex than the game could (or maybe should) ever properly convey.
The game doesn't even deal with variation in tire profile, or wheel weights when it comes to lap time. If it did, you'd see the same car's lap vary based on wheel choice and diameter. And the game builds characteristics into the cars based on how they behaved in their day, many times on bias ply tires, which might not be the case on a modern tire.
That's all I am trying to say, that the game has what they call "a tire" that loosely resembles what we know of in the real world as a tire, so lap time comparisons should be taken with a grain of salt.
Like in this vid where they put F1 tires on an MR2. RS tires shouldn't work at all on many of the game's street cars
->
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- 2,799
- Porto
- Burnout_PT
OK. So some more testing and re running previous events and this is what I concluded.
The latest update did not actually RUIN IT OMG 🙄
Also, the latest update dir not FIX IT
At most it's been disguised.
But now I know we're dealing with 2 issues.
1 - tyre grip model
Still unrealistic but we can drive around that and accept the grip level will always be lower that expected, so I don't care.
2 - weight transfer
Snap oversteer and continuous tank slappers (just watch the replays, it's ridiculous)
There's no fix for that in the update, improvement maybe, but you still get castrated when you're having the most fun right on the edge... suddenly it looks like the suspension bottoms out, and you're floating into a spin. Trying to catch it, floating with a bit of oppo.
Then either you spin or catch it and get rewarded with a tank slapper 100% the other direction and away you go again. Stock, modded, tuned, it will always happen, you just delay it, push the limit a bit further... The inherent problem is always there.
And NO it does not happen like that IRL, and NO i don't care it's "just a game.
I's supposed to be THE GAME, I will not stop complaining or lower my expectations just because it's "good enough" for most.
PS: yes, cars that you managed to control nicely in the previous model will now feel planted or understeery because of the changes made. Re-tuned them to ride the edge, and you'll be back to the previous balance.
The latest update did not actually RUIN IT OMG 🙄
Also, the latest update dir not FIX IT
At most it's been disguised.
But now I know we're dealing with 2 issues.
1 - tyre grip model
Still unrealistic but we can drive around that and accept the grip level will always be lower that expected, so I don't care.
2 - weight transfer
Snap oversteer and continuous tank slappers (just watch the replays, it's ridiculous)
There's no fix for that in the update, improvement maybe, but you still get castrated when you're having the most fun right on the edge... suddenly it looks like the suspension bottoms out, and you're floating into a spin. Trying to catch it, floating with a bit of oppo.
Then either you spin or catch it and get rewarded with a tank slapper 100% the other direction and away you go again. Stock, modded, tuned, it will always happen, you just delay it, push the limit a bit further... The inherent problem is always there.
And NO it does not happen like that IRL, and NO i don't care it's "just a game.
I's supposed to be THE GAME, I will not stop complaining or lower my expectations just because it's "good enough" for most.
PS: yes, cars that you managed to control nicely in the previous model will now feel planted or understeery because of the changes made. Re-tuned them to ride the edge, and you'll be back to the previous balance.
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- 3,821
- London, Ontario
- voodoovaj
I think this is another issue. Many people are making comments based on zero track time, or worse, they are assuming (insert game here) is the most realistic and therefore anything that differs is wrong.
Definitely, the cars that are super loose are a mistake in implementation. it's no different than the (nearly undriveable) F40 from Gt5 or the (nearly undriveable) Lambo Gr3 at the beginning of GTS. Now, there's the nearly undriveable 3.0 CSL.
None of these cars would have achieved their admiration if they were undriveable. A little loose? maybe, but undriveable? Those BMW twins are better, but still not good or realistic at all. I could live with losing the rear like that if I unload the suspension or something, but should these cars really be horrible beasts? Shouldn't the settings be able to tune it out?
I agree that it isn't fixed properly...but I guess we are supposed to be happy with mere ownership
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- 1,538
- NRW - GT
Since I'm also an outed fan of BMW models, I immediately bought a 3.0 CSL when it became available (more precisely, I even bought several, because what's better than 1 CSL?..Right 2 or 3) and I can tell you only agree, the 3.0 in particular is really bad in handling, whether before or after the patch, unfortunately my other favorite, the KPGC10, is also one of them. Not quite as bad as the 3.0, but it also has serious problems on the rear axle AND it also has a huge problem with the brakes.I think this is another issue. Many people are making comments based on zero track time, or worse, they are assuming (insert game here) is the most realistic and therefor anything that differs is wrong.
Definitely, the cars that are super loose are a mistake in implementation. its not different that the (nearly undriveable) F40 from Gt5 or the (nearly undriveable) Lambo Gr3 at the beginning of GTS. Now, there's the nearly undriveable 3.0 CSL.
None of these cars would have achieved their admiration if they were undriveable. A little loose? maybe, but undriveable? Those BMW twins are better, but still not good or realistic at all. I could live with losing the rear like that if I unload the suspension or something, but should these cars really be horrible beasts? Shouldn't the settings be able to tune it out?
I agree that it isn't fixed properly...but I guess we are supposed to be happy with mere ownership
- 181
What’s your reference point on this?
I only notice this when you are on racing slicks on production cars. On the sports or comfort tires, cars are easy to catch and the rears are progressive with loss of grip. Even when on racing slicks you can tune the suspension and dampers to prevent sudden loss of rear end and I think it handles it fairly realistically.
What they do need to work on is progressive slip on the GT3 cars. It’s not bad, but it needs a little bit more. Cars need to feel a bit more floaty.
Well, you can have an advanced tire model that doesn’t calculate things properly, or you can have an approximate that gets it 90% correct. Lap times on tire models for what they are are decent. Tire performance matches what JDMKING13 said. It’s based on the Michelin tires and the lap time difference between each are just about on par with their real life product. Their lap time representations are also fairly decent.
- 2,799
- Porto
- Burnout_PT
- 163
- AB, (Slowpony17)
- SubArcticK
Is there ever a car handling situation in GT7 in which ASM on makes more sense than TSC1? Just curious, because in GTSport and GT7 I have never used ASM, but have used TSC. If TSC is just related to rear wheel traction control, what kind of things is ASM on doing??? is it primarily a road car assist?? I have tried reading up on it but the descriptions on what ASM actually does seem vague>
- 1,538
- NRW - GT
These are 2 completely different functions/assistants. While TCS can only work when you are putting power to the drive axle or axles and your tires are losing traction. ASM tries to optimize the stability of the vehicle in every situation, it monitors the vehicle's movement and specifically brakes individual "corners" of the vehicle in order to reduce or avoid a rotation of the vehicle on its own axis. This can help to avoid breaking out of the rear axle, for example when oversteering a snap. Then there is the countersteering assistant, which is intended to intercept the vehicle's swerving solely through targeted steering interventions without affecting performance. TCS is actually the best compromise, at least at level 1, as it "only" affects the drive axle, but basically lets your vehicle "slip". Some vehicles can work well if you only use the countersteering assistant. Some work well using only TCS... and very few may work well or better with ASM or a combination of these wizards.
PirovacBoy
Premium
- 1,488
- Cologne/Germany
- PirovacBoy
So, it has become pretty quite here over the past few Days.
No more bitching and ranting, I like that.
Seems like People are slowly adapting to the the latest Driving Physics, or already have.
Obviously, for PD they have made the right decision.
I must say, I’ve pretty much accepted the Game as it is right now.
I mean it’s not like I have a choice, right.
One more thing I’d like to add, and maybe I contradict myself but I must say that contradictory to my previous posts regarding the newly adjusted FFB for the CSL DD, I must admit that it feels pretty awesome after some time.
Once I got used to the new driving Model I must say that to me the FFB in GT7 is probably the best I’ve ever experienced in any other Console Racing Game.
Just yesterday a very kind Being yes i mean you Mr. @fmq75 solved a huge Issue I had with my DD Wheel.
Since then, it turned out that I can now finally enjoy the FFB in its full Glory.
What a dramatic Game Changer.
Thank you Mr. @fmq75 .
You Legend 💪🏻
And thank you Mr. SchnickSchnack aka @NikNakTobasco for saving me 100€, best Man 👊
No more bitching and ranting, I like that.
Seems like People are slowly adapting to the the latest Driving Physics, or already have.
Obviously, for PD they have made the right decision.
I must say, I’ve pretty much accepted the Game as it is right now.
I mean it’s not like I have a choice, right.
One more thing I’d like to add, and maybe I contradict myself but I must say that contradictory to my previous posts regarding the newly adjusted FFB for the CSL DD, I must admit that it feels pretty awesome after some time.
Once I got used to the new driving Model I must say that to me the FFB in GT7 is probably the best I’ve ever experienced in any other Console Racing Game.
Just yesterday a very kind Being yes i mean you Mr. @fmq75 solved a huge Issue I had with my DD Wheel.
Since then, it turned out that I can now finally enjoy the FFB in its full Glory.
What a dramatic Game Changer.
Thank you Mr. @fmq75 .
You Legend 💪🏻
And thank you Mr. SchnickSchnack aka @NikNakTobasco for saving me 100€, best Man 👊
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- 209
- Germany
@PirovacBoy no problem,glad i could help 👍
To be fair,it was not my own idea.I found it in the fanatec subreddit.
To be fair,it was not my own idea.I found it in the fanatec subreddit.
- 287
- New Zealand
- Novice_Senior
Pretty sure you were right tbh. Dirty air affects handling on high-downforce cars as it's turbulent air, so less downforce. Slipstream is the car in front blocking the headwind so your car doesn't have to fight through the wall of air, but obviously that air behind the leading car is also dirty. Dirty air shouldn't really be a problem in GT3 or slower though.
I'm also pretty sure GT7 does mimic dirty air, but you'll need a fast high-downforce car to test.
- 1,565
- United Kingdom
- 209
- Germany
You can stop the clonk if you put some scotch tape on your shaft
- 1,565
- United Kingdom
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