Gran Turismo 7 Physics

[Skython]

I sort of see this, but I think it's a slightly different matter. A good physics build is really tough, but this one looks good. The way cars bounce and carom in wrecks is much more lifelike in GT7. I think the real matter is a combo of a physics engine that's close to real life and could be better, but combined with values assigned to the cars and their setups which is a bit off. These two factors combined make for a driving experience which is a bit odd sometimes. For instance, I think the consensus among tuners is that the suspension still reads better in the PP system when it's lowered, but performs on track better when it's higher, which is obviously wrong. I refuse to raise my cars, it just isn't racey.

The Performance Points system is still janky. I still have the same jumps as before, but now they're at slightly different points. When they get their physics smoothed out, and their associated car data right, this should be an amazing racer.

Yep, it's starting to appear to be how they refine physics for specific cars becoming the problem. It's inconsistent at best, and I think they need to revisit the data of lots of cars individually.

 

[ScottPuss20]

Though I won't ignore what people are saying here, that the race cars have too much grip and a strange tendency to understeer. I wonder what it is in the physics that makes the race cars grip far too much. I tested my CLK LM on race hards and then sports softs, and even on sports tires it had almost unbreakable grip which I found interesting. It's like there are artificial markers imposed on race cars to have more grip beyond the normal things that would make them have more grip (like aero and altered suspension and the like).

This is completely false. I jumped on the throttle a bit too early coming out of the last corner at Fuji Speedway and the car shot right across the track. It is possible to break traction if you aren't paying attention.

 

[JDMKING13]

Just tried the Ferrari FXXK stock with no in-game assists and it will kick its tail out at even 10% throttle on corner exit. Definitely not feeling this magical grip on racing tires when I can just mash the throttle and go.

I think it has to do with more of the GT3 vs just Racing tires. I use racing tires on my Porsche GT3 cup car and you can loose traction in that easy… The GT3 do have a lot more grip vs before…

 

[extreme car]

Well, my belief is that a car never should be able to power oversteer out of corners. It's cool and fun but ineffective and dangerous. If the suspension works, the tyres are appropriate and it's dry and hot, it should stick when racing normally - that's the fastest way. But of course, pavement and tyres aren't perfect, and suspension can't compensate for every bump, so of course you can't be totally stupid unless the tyres are stupidly oversized, which is also slow.
Many cars, most powerful RWD road cars with electronics turned off, would be lethal though. My guess is that they can snap from understeer to gross oversteer easily. Hence all the Youtube clips of stupid crashes...

I disagree, you can use power oversteer to your advantage in rally especially when you car naturally understeers on hairpins. it's a high risk high reward manouvre that rally driver use in low grip condition.

F1 cars normally don't power oversteer out of corners, right? If they apply throttle too much but gradually, it should understeer. Sporty motorcycles behave the same way.

if you apply the throttle gradually then I agree it should understeer, but if you apply it like me in the Gr.2 cars in GT7 I think it should oversteer.

If a corner decreases in radius mid-corner IRL, do you apply throttle to turn more or let go of the throttle and maybe touch the front brakes a bit? The latter is the only safe and fast way on a motorcycle, and a well balanced car should behave the same. Going fast on a track isn't any different.

depends on what car I drive if the car naturally understeers on entry and if the car is RWD, I brake early and apply the throttle early to rotate the car then I balance my throttle mid corner so I don't drift the car and lose traction at corner exit. this is what I usualy do on Fuji Speedway last corner before the long straight.

I golded CE Suzuka before the patch. The first sector was painful. The rest was easy. My guess is that even the first sector would be relatively easy now (for someone dedicated and experienced).

this is great then, you should try it again to compare the car pre patch and post patch.

 

[Skython]

This is completely false. I jumped on the throttle a bit too early coming out of the last corner at Fuji Speedway and the car shot right across the track. It is possible to break traction if you aren't paying attention.

Interesting. I found you could break traction if you tried unreasonably hard, but it was still bounds of grip, far more than I expected for high performance road tires on a 90s Le Mans racer. I could drive regularly on sports tires with no more trouble than racing tires, though perhaps I didn't spend enough time really confirming the limits. I love how dramatically you start your post though.

 

[GTboyz]

This is completely false. I jumped on the throttle a bit too early coming out of the last corner at Fuji Speedway and the car shot right across the track. It is possible to break traction if you aren't paying attention.

I experienced some slip ups too while doing the CE at Fuji yesterday, jumping the throttle too early at some of the low speed corners, the car broke traction. But maybe I'm a terrible driver lol

 

[JDMKING13]

Watching some of the Iracing and ACC streamers.. they are flooring it out of turns in the gt3 machines looks similar to what I was doing with the lambo..granted they run TC.

 

[fmq75]

Guess i‘m in the minority here but the only proper test i‘ve done so far is now more difficult than before.Driving the A220 in Tokyo 12 laps.With sports medium now I need to be more careful on the wet track and also need to brake earlier.

 

[Johnnn]

Guess i‘m in the minority here but the only proper test i‘ve done so far is now more difficult than before.Driving the A220 in Tokyo 12 laps.With sports medium now I need to be more careful on the wet track and also need to brake earlier.

Wet feels a bit different than before, that could be it.

 

[Gabe777]

This is completely false. I jumped on the throttle a bit too early coming out of the last corner at Fuji Speedway and the car shot right across the track. It is possible to break traction if you aren't paying attention.

BUT .... I have noticed the BIGGEST change is that if you lose the rear you can regain control with a wheel.

.... I could NOT before the patch.

Happy bunny !

 

[xMAXIx79]

BUT .... I have noticed the BIGGEST change is that if you lose the rear you can regain control with a wheel.

.... I could NOT before the patch.

Happy bunny !

But that was different depending on the car even before the patch, there were cars that came out with the rear excellently and were then usually easy to catch... And there were cars that, before the patch, had already made the first 180 degrees turn have to steer before you even thought about it. The first cars, which were already very tame anyway, are now partly too tame, or so quiet that they run as if on rails. BUT there is a HUGE difference, at least in my testing, if it's a street car or a race car.

 

[F30clubman]

This stupid balance between insane on throttle grip, and ludicrous off throttle oversteer is just flat out wrong. The cars are never just content, they're always in some lame state of under or oversteer.

Can't it be fixed with the settings? I got the Ferrari 330 P4 pretty fine driveable with minor adjustments (and carefull driving in the corners).

In my experience MR cars tend to give off throttle oversteer, and for older cars this can be snap oversteer on which one needs to react swiftly.

If there are no challenges, what is the fun?

 

[B80]

Physics improved for me, but it's not like all suddenly feel like they're on rails, like some are alluding to.

I took the road m4 out on stock, then sports soft and you'd still lose the back easily enough. This is nurburgring gp circuit.

 

[CarreraGT]

BUT .... I have noticed the BIGGEST change is that if you lose the rear you can regain control with a wheel.

.... I could NOT before the patch.

Happy bunny !

Same with controller. It's still a challenge, but you can actually catch a slide now which is nice compared to pre-patch

 

[PirovacBoy]

Ok, I’ve been quite busy doing lots of testing all kinds of different Cars over the past few Days.
Cars, I was somewhat familiarized with.
From my Observation, I can definitely say that the biggest but most impacting change is the huge gain in Rear Wheel Grip.
I excessively enjoyed driving Powerful Muscle Cars tuned with huge Compressors driven on Sport Hard Tires for example.
These Cars are not recognizable anymore.
The Throttle Modulation and Chassis/Suspension Balancing has been dulled down so hard, that the Cars now just feel extremely lifeless and boring.
And this Numb Feeling is now being even more downgraded with a very uninformative FFB because of that improved Rear Wheel Grip I Think.
Same goes for the new Brake Adjustment.
The Effect is just too strong.
Way too strong and stabilizing.
The Throttle Response though feels very good, linear and progressive.

Whereas before 1.13 Update it was perfect balanced with these Cars, now it’s just not in Balance anymore.
I think I have a pretty good Perception and Understanding when it comes to reading the FFB in GT7.

To me it seems like the Forces turning left right are still communicated to a certain level and give you a good understanding of Chassis Movement in these directions similar to what it was before, but the front/rear Forces are completely vanished.
Before it was a perfectly outbalanced 360degree Force Circle, Front/Rear/Left/Right.

That’s not the Case anymore.
Braking hard into a Corner doesn’t Shift any Weight to the Front, at least it’s not communicated anymore.
Same goes for accelerating out of Corners or in a Straight line.
These previously quite informatively felt Forces have been taken out of the FFB.
I don’t know if it’s because of the adjustments to the FFB for the CSL DD Wheelbase, but it’s definitely lacking a Sensation I 100% could feel before the Update.
In any Case, I think PD definitely needs to readjust some Settings, to both the rear Wheel Grip same as for the FFB.
It’s not bad, by no means, I think they are very close to a good Middleway.

I don’t know if maybe an Autistic Employee just accidentally messed something up while recalculating the adjusted Alghoritm for RWD Cars, but he definitely didn’t deserve the Employee of the Month Bonus for this Nonsense.
The GT Baseline Physics are surprisingly good, the FFB is good, I mean the Game feels and drives good, but I honestly hope that they take a Second Look and readjust some things.
It was so good before the Update, not perfect, by no means.
Especially some MR Cars were completly off and not enjoyable, and the comically absurd Snap oversteer was a real pain.

Here is hoping for some upcoming updates.
They are not far off from the Sweet Spot in my opinion.

 

[Mr616]

Ok, I’ve been quite busy doing lots of testing all kinds of different Cars over the past few Days.
Cars, I was somewhat familiarized with.
From my Observation, I can definitely say that the biggest but most impacting change is the huge gain in Rear Wheel Grip.
I excessively enjoyed driving Powerful Muscle Cars tuned with huge Compressors driven on Sport Hard Tires for example.
These Cars are not recognizable anymore.
The Throttle Modulation and Chassis/Suspension Balancing has been dulled down so hard, that the Cars now just feel extremely lifeless and boring.
And this Numb Feeling is now being even more downgraded with a very uninformative FFB because of that improved Rear Wheel Grip I Think.
Same goes for the new Brake Adjustment.
The Effect is just too strong.
Way too strong and stabilizing.
The Throttle Response though feels very good, linear and progressive.

Whereas before 1.13 Update it was perfect balanced with these Cars, now it’s just not in Balance anymore.
I think I have a pretty good Perception and Understanding when it comes to reading the FFB in GT7.

To me it seems like the Forces turning left right are still communicated to a certain level and give you a good understanding of Chassis Movement in these directions similar to what it was before, but the front/rear Forces are completely vanished.
Before it was a perfectly outbalanced 360degree Force Circle, Front/Rear/Left/Right.

That’s not the Case anymore.
Braking hard into a Corner doesn’t Shift any Weight to the Front, at least it’s not communicated anymore.
Same goes for accelerating out of Corners or in a Straight line.
These previously quite informatively felt Forces have been taken out of the FFB.
I don’t know if it’s because of the adjustments to the FFB for the CSL DD Wheelbase, but it’s definitely lacking a Sensation I 100% could feel before the Update.
In any Case, I think PD definitely needs to readjust some Settings, to both the rear Wheel Grip same as for the FFB.
It’s not bad, by no means, I think they are very close to a good Middleway.

I don’t know if maybe an Autistic Employee just accidentally messed something up while recalculating the adjusted Alghoritm for RWD Cars, but he definitely didn’t deserve the Employee of the Month Bonus for this Nonsense.
The GT Baseline Physics are surprisingly good, the FFB is good, I mean the Game feels and drives good, but I honestly hope that they take a Second Look and readjust some things.
It was so good before the Update, not perfect, by no means.
Especially some MR Cars were completly off and not enjoyable, and the comically absurd Snap oversteer was a real pain.

Here is hoping for some upcoming updates.
They are not far off from the Sweet Spot in my opinion.

I've stayed off this holy hand grenade of a thread, but I think you've summed it up perfectly.

Throttle application is far better and more progressive. Some cars are feeling great on the new model (Carrera GT for one) yet others do feel a bit lifeless and glued down now or in other cases they are super pointy feeling but with tons of rear grip. I've been mostly building and tuning Porsches as I liked the tuning challenge pre patch. On power grip feels better but thet just feel to easy to drive like an absolute hooligan. You should still have to give them respect which I think is lacking a bit now.

I run all my road cars above 500pp on SH or SM. Never use soft or racing tyres. Completely ruin road cars. I only use RH or RM for the same reason. Anything under 500pp are on CM for the most part.

Hope you are keeping well mate. Long time no type or race

PS curbs can be eaten far to easily. Leclerc would not have spun in F1 with these grip levels lol.

 

[Firestone]

Watching some of the Iracing and ACC streamers.. they are flooring it out of turns in the gt3 machines looks similar to what I was doing with the lambo..granted they run TC.

Yup. In ACC, depending on your setup and Traction settings, you can basically floor the cars through corners and corner exits. Even with traction turned off, the cars have enough grip to get through certain corners full throttle.

 

[JDMKING13]

Yup. In ACC, depending on your setup and Traction settings, you can basically floor the cars through corners and corner exits. Even with traction turned off, the cars have enough grip to get through certain corners full throttle.

Yea I was I was kinda shocked lol… I actually like to watch the streamers play Iracing and ACC… but never really paid attention to the brake and throttle inputs. I watch a couple guys late last night and I mean they were flooring it out of the turns..

I played ACC again last night and the cars are really glued to the ground and I turned TCS off as you said… they still had more slip in the rear than GT7 though but you can control it very good. For me at least GT7 might have the higher grip but the chassis balance is harder and that what makes me spin sometimes… vs pre patch you would just spin out from bad throttle response… I think if the notch the grip levels maybe 1 notch down the GT3 cars will feel perfect!

 

[NikNakTobasco]

So. Much. Understeer. 🤮. Mid corner throttle input and control is completely gone now.

 

[nicefrog]

The cars almost have a auto power cut so that they wont continue a slide once it starts like grand theft auto v now.. It's so dumb and lifeless. Those few outspoken GT sport guys that can't drive without traction control and have a big voice on youtube need to shut up. I'm here buying a game to enjoy at home and how I've had that game taken off me, maybe for ever. I didn't agree to this.

 

[LSFDRX]

Can't it be fixed with the settings? I got the Ferrari 330 P4 pretty fine driveable with minor adjustments (and carefull driving in the corners).

In my experience MR cars tend to give off throttle oversteer, and for older cars this can be snap oversteer on which one needs to react swiftly.

If there are no challenges, what is the fun?

Yes it likely can be fixed in settings, although I haven't messed with any yet. This thought does nothing to help anyone in an online race though, because BOP will ensure that you won't be able to tune your car.

It is true that MR cars do come around on lift-throttle, which is something I enjoy about the layout. The ability to four-wheel drift is much higher in an MR car than others, as well as the ability to positively adjust mid corner attitude with throttle.

The "no challenge" line is an issue. With my stance, I like the cars before when they were more challenging to drive, because while you had to be very sensitive with throttle inputs and there was a much higher likelihood of losing it, at least you had the ability to use it to create oversteer at pretty much any moment. Now you just can't, and the new setup makes the cars "faster" which is, to me, less challenging.

I do not appreciate a "challenge" that involves making cars less malleable and seemingly more unrealistic.

 

[Tenacious D]

On power grip feels better but thet just feel to easy to drive like an absolute hooligan. You should still have to give them respect which I think is lacking a bit now.

That wasn't my experience at all. Taking the 911 GT3 RS '16 around the Ring on sports mediums with only ABS weak was a constant fight for me which I often lost. It was quite an epic struggle. Sports softs were much better, but I still nearly lost it several times. I was almost a minute slower than the real life record. Maybe being too used to GT Sport, and still too timid from my wreck and afraid of these high performance cars, has handicapped me and I'm not as good as I thought I was. But I have a feeling that you guys are just not pushing as hard as you can, because the 1.07 update was a bit treacherous for most of the cars.

I dunno, I had to get groceries last evening, and it wore me out so no playing with the Grs like I'd intended. I'll give some a try in race in a bit, since cars are different in time trials versus a race for whatever reasons.

 

[B80]

That wasn't my experience at all. Taking the 911 GT3 RS '16 around the Ring on sports mediums with only ABS weak was a constant fight for me which I often lost. It was quite an epic struggle. Sports softs were much better, but I still nearly lost it several times. I was almost a minute slower than the real life record. Maybe being too used to GT Sport, and still too timid from my wreck and afraid of these high performance cars, has handicapped me and I'm not as good as I thought I was. But I have a feeling that you guys are just not pushing as hard as you can, because the 1.07 update was a bit treacherous for most of the cars.

I dunno, I had to get groceries last evening, and it wore me out so no playing with the Grs like I'd intended. I'll give some a try in race in a bit, since cars are different in time trials versus a race for whatever reasons.

Really? Cars behave differently in different modes?

 

[szejok666]

After extensive testing my opinion is, that driving on CH and CM tires feels the same/almost the same as before the update, also lap times I can achieve are very similar. Tires from CS and up have more grip (that comes in line with post in Undocumented changes thread with Mitsubishi GTO chart - Lateral G comparison before/after patch), and lap times with them are faster and cars are more forgiving and overall better to drive. Unfortunately, now Gap between CM and CS tires is too vast - for instance Supra RZ lateral G at 60 mph with CM tires 0,89G; CS tires 0,99G. That's a whole 0.1G - and everyone who's interested in skidpad values know what I'm talking about. At the moment fitting correct tires to many cars especially from 90's period is impossible. Two HALO cars from 90's - R33 Skyline and Supra on CM are too slow, on CS are too fast. Kinda kills off realism in my opinion. I've always been impressed how in GT6 the've managed to recreate grip and lap times of most all of the cars in the game (majority when fitted with CM tires) almost perfectly, and now it's all messed up. To have something like that ready and working (I remember comparing whole laps of Nordschleife with youtube videos and couldn't believe what I've seen - braking points, handling speed was almost identical) 10 years ago and lose it is incomprehensible to me.

 

[OutlawQuadrnt]

Ultimately, this is just my opinion but with the old physics, the main issue was just how sudden and uncontrollable oversteer was at times. Otherwise, I was really looking forward every time I got a new car.

Post-update, after a few days, the driving experience is far too similar to GT Sport. My take on that is something I would probably say on Twitter instead of here.

 

[Td04]

Intersting video, cause It has telemetry.




And this second one show 458's insane lift off oversteer, that Is quite good simulated on gt7 in my opinion

I don't know how would be simulated correctly a race car,but i suppose they are made for give the more confidence as possible to the pilot. I think that the snappiness we had before isn't really correct. Even with TCS on, It was not rare see the rear try to kick out even at high speed,stopped by tcs,suddenly.
For sure TCS simulation sucks a lot on GT series.
Road cars are a lot better now,i think is objective. For race cars i trust of what real pilots saying... Anyways not all race cars lost their oversteer.

Anyways for people who looks at gt3 and GT4 cars, maybe is better to play Acc 😅

 

[JDMKING13]

After extensive testing my opinion is, that driving on CH and CM tires feels the same/almost the same as before the update, also lap times I can achieve are very similar. Tires from CS and up have more grip (that comes in line with post in Undocumented changes thread with Mitsubishi GTO chart - Lateral G comparison before/after patch), and lap times with them are faster and cars are more forgiving and overall better to drive. Unfortunately, now Gap between CM and CS tires is too vast - for instance Supra RZ lateral G at 60 mph with CM tires 0,89G; CS tires 0,99G. That's a whole 0.1G - and everyone who's interested in skidpad values know what I'm talking about. At the moment fitting correct tires to many cars especially from 90's period is impossible. Two HALO cars from 90's - R33 Skyline and Supra on CM are too slow, on CS are too fast. Kinda kills off realism in my opinion. I've always been impressed how in GT6 the've managed to recreate grip and lap times of most all of the cars in the game (majority when fitted with CM tires) almost perfectly, and now it's all messed up. To have something like that ready and working (I remember comparing whole laps of Nordschleife with youtube videos and couldn't believe what I've seen - braking points, handling speed was almost identical) 10 years ago and lose it is incomprehensible to me.

A lot of my 90”s cars get Comfort hard or mediums Supra gets CM (Bridgestone Potenzas RE020) early 2000 cars mainly get mediums with the modern super cars getting comfort softs.. I am actually lapping the Supra faster with the mediums than before. I’m around 2.5 seconds behind the guys at BM which is cool because I figure the fasted guys on the game are usually 2 seconds ahead of me.

With my tire system I use, the cars feel very similar but better than the update we had before… only cars I feel they need to just dial the grip back a tad bit would be GT3…

 

[Td04]

A lot of my 90”s cars get Comfort hard or mediums Supra gets CM (Bridgestone Potenzas RE020) early 2000 cars mainly get mediums with the modern super cars getting comfort softs.. I am actually lapping the Supra faster with the mediums than before. I’m around 2.5 seconds behind the guys at BM which is cool because I figure the fasted guys on the game are usually 2 seconds ahead of me.

With my tire system I use, the cars feel very similar but better than the update we had before… only cars I feel they need to just dial the grip back a tad bit would be GT3…

Is sport hard supposed to be some kind of semislick?

 

[nickg07]

Intersting video, cause It has telemetry.




And this second one show 458's insane lift off oversteer, that Is quite good simulated on gt7 in my opinion

I don't know how would be simulated correctly a race car,but i suppose they are made for give the more confidence as possible to the pilot. I think that the snappiness we had before isn't really correct. Even with TCS on, It was not rare see the rear try to kick out even at high speed,stopped by tcs,suddenly.
For sure TCS simulation sucks a lot on GT series.
Road cars are a lot better now,i think is objective. For race cars i trust of what real pilots saying... Anyways not all race cars lost their oversteer.

Anyways for people who looks at gt3 and GT4 cars, maybe is better to play Acc 😅

First video really shows how you can get your foot on 100% throttle about half a second to 1 second before the exit cub of s corner and use it to push you into that lime.

Also note he didn't install spin off despite putting a wheel onto the curb at 100% power...

Imagine that!

 

[HugoTwoWheels]

Not having cars that power oversteer is boring and limiting. By your measure, no cars should have any power beyond what the tires can handle, in which case the Carrera GT would have less than 200hp. This viewpoint would almost totally ruin the entire enthusiast automotive community. Cars without driving aids are not "lethal", neither is the power itself, they are only as dangerous as the person behind the wheel. My daily driver has 550hp, and I frequently turn everything off when driving spiritedly. This is also true for my old BMW M3, my friends and their cars, and most anyone I know that has a modicum of driving experience. It is the viewpoint of an inexperienced driver that traction control is needed in a high horsepower car. As far as the game is concerned, I've never turned TCS on.

I am also someone who rides a lot. Grew up in dirt, transitioned into sport bikes and track days, and now mostly ride my motard, but to me there are very few things the disciplines of cars and bikes share. On bikes, being beyond traction is usually very dangerous, whereas cars can do it all day without issue (see drift events). That said, with my last GSX-R 750 I used to spin the rear tire during accel or when cornering below the limit, whenever I felt like it. The bike had the power to do so, and I had the talent to not high side it, but this is a far cry from me sliding my RX7, and the likelihood for my RX to suddenly throw me out of it is almost zero whereas the bike could grip up at any time and decide it doesn't want me on it.

Trying to correlate your knowledge of motorcycles with cars isn't always going to fit.

You're obviously unusually skilled. Not sure your view is applicable on very many people, not even enthusiasts.