- 1,167
- United States
- Grand_Slammin
Gran Turismo 7 Physics
- Thread starter Shingo_civic
- 6,343 comments
- 520,830 views
- 529
- Oregon
- ILLEAGLE_34
- 2,332
- Germany
I think it would still work without the weight restrictions, it is the power that is being abused on the broken setups.
- 260
- Białystok/PL//Kiel/DE
- andryush
Even if it is so, you can simply boost your car's handling with this exploit.
FerrariF40
(Banned)
- 404
- Australia
Why do they not improve FFB? Lazy PD
- 212
- Belgium
FerrariF40
(Banned)
- 404
- Australia
In the past most MR cars were undriveable for me.
Even real sims like ACC are mich easier to drive with these cars.
Even real sims like ACC are mich easier to drive with these cars.
- 212
- Belgium
Even the F40?
Last edited:
- 2,332
- Germany
It was very good in GTS, but in GT7 I was close to avoiding all MR cars with just a very few exceptions.Even the F40?
- 212
- Belgium
FerrariF40
(Banned)
- 404
- Australia
The rear steps out way to easy and quickly, especially when braking, downshifting and turning in.
Last edited:
- 212
- Belgium
RR cars in GT7 step out too quickly imo. In reality you have more time to correct RR cars.
Imo MR cars in GT7 are handling much like RR cars in real life. With an even too slow (!) inertia around the PG. So I am happy with them in GT7 (at least I was before 1.20 ... will find out what changed when my son has finished playing tonight
).
Imo MR cars in GT7 are handling much like RR cars in real life. With an even too slow (!) inertia around the PG. So I am happy with them in GT7 (at least I was before 1.20 ... will find out what changed when my son has finished playing tonight
).
Last edited:
LeGeNd-1
Premium
- 7,264
- Australia
- GTP_LeGeNd-1
Just tested a variety of cars in the license tests, missions and circuit experiences (quick & easy way to sample a wide variety of combos in absolutely constant conditions between updates). The infamous 370Z @ Tsukuba is so easy now, I smashed my previous best by 0.5 sec. Most other tests with RWD cars I improved by a few tenths as well. Gr.3 high speed understeer is even worse, but you gain so much time on traction out of lower corners, it more than makes up for it. Overall driving is just a lot easier now, as long as you don't mind the chronic high speed understeer.
Honestly I really don't know why they keep making these "suspension geometry" changes which worses the understeer, and doesn't target the actual problem (tyre model). 2 wrongs really doesn't make a right but Akihiko Tan doesn't seem to get what makes good intuitive physics.
At launch, the main problems with GT7 were:
1) Lack of rear tyre grip.
2) Weight transfer too pronounced (especially MR/RR).
3) Suspension too "bouncy" (obvious with all the jump landing issues at dirt tracks). But for FF/4WD cars this makes them more lively and not overdamped as in previous games.
4) Downforce too OP (e.g. Super Formula can take many corners flat out that it can't IRL).
5) Brakes - not a problem. In fact one of the things they got right. Braking from high speeds is a delicate affair, and you really have to be mindful of the car's balance state to maximise retardation on all 4 wheels. Also the rate of deceleration decreases as your speed lowers, just as real life.
Now, almost 6 months and numerous updates later, we have:
1) Rear tyre grip is better, but the ratio of longitudinal to lateral grip is still off. Also wet driving is still like driving on ice.
2) Weight transfer has been toned down by "suspension geometry" changes. Good thing is, MR/RR cars don't try to kill you every time you lift off throttle or brake. Bad thing is, any car with downforce now has huge terminal understeer at high speeds. You can tune this out offline, but online with fixed setup the cars are just like a truck in high speed corners.
3) Suspension is pretty much back to GT Sport now. Overdamped and road cars all feel lifeless
Good thing is rally jumps are fixed, but let's face it rally is <1% of this game.
4) OP downforce still not fixed.
5) The V1.13 update (end of April) made the brakes stronger and a lot more stable. Even with all the issues, I usually still use the same brake markers in GTS/early GT7 vs AC/ACC. But since then I find I need to delay by 10-20m. You just mash the brakes, no need to modulate, no subtlety at all and the car will make the corner as if it drops anchor into the tarmac.
Driving in GT7 is like trying to drive 3 different games at once. You just have no idea what the car is going to do next. And just as you get used to it, the next update changes everything again. Oh, and don't get me started on the FFB, which is still dead and lifeless (even compared to GTS, which is not the greatest FFB in the first place).
If they just fire the physics guy and use his salary to license Kunos or Reiza's physics engine, everything would be solved. But Kaz won't do that, because working at PD has no consequences. You can keep making the same mistakes for 25 years and still keep your job
N.B. I haven't caught up with this thread since page 109, so apologies if I missed some nuggets of wisdom here and there.
Honestly I really don't know why they keep making these "suspension geometry" changes which worses the understeer, and doesn't target the actual problem (tyre model). 2 wrongs really doesn't make a right but Akihiko Tan doesn't seem to get what makes good intuitive physics.
At launch, the main problems with GT7 were:
1) Lack of rear tyre grip.
2) Weight transfer too pronounced (especially MR/RR).
3) Suspension too "bouncy" (obvious with all the jump landing issues at dirt tracks). But for FF/4WD cars this makes them more lively and not overdamped as in previous games.
4) Downforce too OP (e.g. Super Formula can take many corners flat out that it can't IRL).
5) Brakes - not a problem. In fact one of the things they got right. Braking from high speeds is a delicate affair, and you really have to be mindful of the car's balance state to maximise retardation on all 4 wheels. Also the rate of deceleration decreases as your speed lowers, just as real life.
Now, almost 6 months and numerous updates later, we have:
1) Rear tyre grip is better, but the ratio of longitudinal to lateral grip is still off. Also wet driving is still like driving on ice.
2) Weight transfer has been toned down by "suspension geometry" changes. Good thing is, MR/RR cars don't try to kill you every time you lift off throttle or brake. Bad thing is, any car with downforce now has huge terminal understeer at high speeds. You can tune this out offline, but online with fixed setup the cars are just like a truck in high speed corners.
3) Suspension is pretty much back to GT Sport now. Overdamped and road cars all feel lifeless
Good thing is rally jumps are fixed, but let's face it rally is <1% of this game.4) OP downforce still not fixed.
5) The V1.13 update (end of April) made the brakes stronger and a lot more stable. Even with all the issues, I usually still use the same brake markers in GTS/early GT7 vs AC/ACC. But since then I find I need to delay by 10-20m. You just mash the brakes, no need to modulate, no subtlety at all and the car will make the corner as if it drops anchor into the tarmac.
Driving in GT7 is like trying to drive 3 different games at once. You just have no idea what the car is going to do next. And just as you get used to it, the next update changes everything again. Oh, and don't get me started on the FFB, which is still dead and lifeless (even compared to GTS, which is not the greatest FFB in the first place).
If they just fire the physics guy and use his salary to license Kunos or Reiza's physics engine, everything would be solved. But Kaz won't do that, because working at PD has no consequences. You can keep making the same mistakes for 25 years and still keep your job
N.B. I haven't caught up with this thread since page 109, so apologies if I missed some nuggets of wisdom here and there.
Last edited:
- 444
- Sweden
Just came back to see if I've missed out on something since I stopped playing GT7. Thanks for the summary!Just tested a variety of cars in the license tests, missions and circuit experiences (quick & easy way to sample a wide variety of combos in absolutely constant conditions between updates). The infamous 370Z @ Tsukuba is so easy now, I smashed my previous best by 0.5 sec. Most other tests with RWD cars I improved by a few tenths as well. Gr.3 high speed understeer is even worse, but you gain so much time on traction out of lower corners, it more than makes up for it. Overall driving is just a lot easier now, as long as you don't mind the chronic high speed understeer.
Honestly I really don't know why they keep making these "suspension geometry" changes which worses the understeer, and doesn't target the actual problem (tyre model). 2 wrongs really doesn't make a right but Akihiko Tan doesn't seem to get what makes good intuitive physics.
At launch, the main problems with GT7 were:
1) Lack of rear tyre grip.
2) Weight transfer too pronounced (especially MR/RR).
3) Suspension too "bouncy" (obvious with all the jump landing issues at dirt tracks). But for FF/4WD cars this makes them more lively and not overdamped as in previous games.
4) Downforce too OP (e.g. Super Formula can take many corners flat out that it can't IRL).
5) Brakes - not a problem. In fact one of the things they got right. Braking from high speeds is a delicate affair, and you really have to be mindful of the car's balance state to maximise retardation on all 4 wheels. Also the rate of deceleration decreases as your speed lowers, just as real life.
Now, almost 6 months and numerous updates later, we have:
1) Rear tyre grip is better, but the ratio of longitudinal to lateral grip is still off. Also wet driving is still like driving on ice.
2) Weight transfer has been toned down by "suspension geometry" changes. Good thing is, MR/RR cars don't try to kill you every time you lift off throttle or brake. Bad thing is, any car with downforce now has huge terminal understeer at high speeds. You can tune this out offline, but online with fixed setup the cars are just like a truck in high speed corners.
3) Suspension is pretty much back to GT Sport now. Overdamped and road cars all feel lifeless
4) OP downforce still not fixed.
5) The V1.13 update (end of April) made the brakes stronger and a lot more stable. Even with all the issues, I usually still use the same brake markers in GTS/early GT7 vs AC/ACC. But since then I find I need to delay by 10-20m. You just mash the brakes, no need to modulate, no subtlety at all and the car will make the corner as if it drops anchor into the tarmac.
Driving in GT7 is like trying to drive 3 different games at once. You just have no idea what the car is going to do next. And just as you get used to it, the next update changes everything again. Oh, and don't get me started on the FFB, which is still dead and lifeless (even compared to GTS, which is not the greatest FFB in the first place).
If they just fire the physics guy and use his salary to license Kunos or Reiza's physics engine, everything would be solved. But Kaz won't do that, because working at PD has no consequences. You can keep making the same mistakes for 25 years and still keep your job
N.B. I haven't caught up with this thread since page 109, so apologies if I missed some nuggets of wisdom here and there.
- 2,332
- Germany
I see it as a black and white matter:
Either have all cars have the same performance and only be visually different, or have cars with different performance (as currently is, then there will always be a car that is better on a track, with the next car propably being better on a different one).
- 274
- United States
Well I love the new handling.
Wheel user and the cars seems to responds to more subtle input better, and there is actually slip angle in both under and oversteer before its totally lets go. Weight transfer is slowed down. As some who race/ track cars IRL it feels really good. Cars no longer snap with no warning and no longer exciting which is honestly how you would tune race cars.
MR and RR Gr4 and Gr3 car will be much more competitve now.
Controller users, those who use large quick movements and those using assist are going to hate this handling. It will just understeer on them.
but wheel users, especially those with real life tracking experince will adapt really quickly. You can play with high powered RWD cars on street tires at the limit better.
Also Dirt and rally cross feels amazing.
Wheel user and the cars seems to responds to more subtle input better, and there is actually slip angle in both under and oversteer before its totally lets go. Weight transfer is slowed down. As some who race/ track cars IRL it feels really good. Cars no longer snap with no warning and no longer exciting which is honestly how you would tune race cars.
MR and RR Gr4 and Gr3 car will be much more competitve now.
Controller users, those who use large quick movements and those using assist are going to hate this handling. It will just understeer on them.
but wheel users, especially those with real life tracking experince will adapt really quickly. You can play with high powered RWD cars on street tires at the limit better.
Also Dirt and rally cross feels amazing.
- 212
- Belgium
Just tried 1.20 and with my G29 I feel little or no difference 
FF cars are unchanged imo. The steering wheels still feels dead, whatever the front wheels loose traction or not.
Handling of MR and RR cars certainly did not become worse and I find it as challenging and enjoyable as before. I have a feeling that the brake bias on MR cars improved, but it could be a change to the tyre lock characteristics too. Where you hear the tyres locking, watching the replays there is no smoke in situations where it would have occurred before 1.20. Smoke still occurs sometimes, but only in "all-out" locking of a full axis, not when just one wheel locks up.
Difficult to describe, anyone noticed the same?
FF cars are unchanged imo. The steering wheels still feels dead, whatever the front wheels loose traction or not.
Handling of MR and RR cars certainly did not become worse and I find it as challenging and enjoyable as before. I have a feeling that the brake bias on MR cars improved, but it could be a change to the tyre lock characteristics too. Where you hear the tyres locking, watching the replays there is no smoke in situations where it would have occurred before 1.20. Smoke still occurs sometimes, but only in "all-out" locking of a full axis, not when just one wheel locks up.
Difficult to describe, anyone noticed the same?
Last edited:
- 274
- United States
I am Fanatec DD pro.Just tried 1.20 and with my G29 I feel little or no difference
FF cars are unchanged imo. The steering wheels still feels dead, whatever the front wheels loose traction or not.
Handling of MR and RR cars certainly did not become worse and I find it as challenging and enjoyable as before. I have a feeling that the brake bias on MR cars improved, but it could be a change to the tyre lock characteristics too. Where you hear the tyres locking, watching the replays there is no smoke in situations where it would have occurred before 1.20. Smoke still occurs sometimes, but only in "all-out" locking of a full axis, not when just one wheel locks up.
Difficult to describe, anyone noticed the same?
What ingame setting do you use?
- 356
- Pennsylvania
- Umber1911
- Fire Yoshi
I'm a controller user with D-Pad Steering (Hate the position of the left analog stick on PS controllers, but I've gotten quite used to D-Pad steering over the years since GT3 and have essentially mastered it) and have mostly negative feelings towards the new physics.
Steering feels way too heavy and understeery at highspeeds (It feels like your steering wheel grows larger in size the faster you go), and is a little too sensitive at lower speeds.
I raced the Gr.3 NSX Race Care using 1.20 stock settings by creating a new Setting Sheet (Minus the power reduction to get it to 700PP, of course) at Sarthe WTC 700, then raced it again at Spa WTC 800 with same exact settings.
It was extremely jarring with how much different the car felt between the two events. It felt like the game was toying with my senses by completely changing the physics between races.
Sadly, I cannot seem to find a good 'middle ground' when adjusting the controller sensitivity, so I guess I'll have to endure this hell until the next physics update
The only thing I like about the changes are that MR and RR racecars don't snap oversteer quite as much when you disengage the throttle like they used to. Lifting the front end helped, but never truly cured it for some cars.
If they could somehow find a sweet spot between 1.20 and 1.19 physics, then this could be good for controller users.
- 697
- Northants
Not tried many cars, but some I'm familiar with and test the physics updates with. Honestly it just feels like there's a huge limiter on steering angle at any speed, I couldn't believe how much understeer there is off throttle in some cars now - even with the diff wide open. However off road events don't suffer from it and the cars are super responsive as they were before.
The Evo II Audi R8 GT3 still feels like it has shopping trolley wheels at the rear, the amount of snap oversteer is comical at times and doesn't really seem to change with drastic setup adjustments. It didn't really feel any different to any of the other updates from my quick run with it which is disappointing.
One improvement seemed to be that the 4WD cars don't lock up the inside rear all the time now, before I was having issues with some cars even on -5 brake bias.
The Evo II Audi R8 GT3 still feels like it has shopping trolley wheels at the rear, the amount of snap oversteer is comical at times and doesn't really seem to change with drastic setup adjustments. It didn't really feel any different to any of the other updates from my quick run with it which is disappointing.
One improvement seemed to be that the 4WD cars don't lock up the inside rear all the time now, before I was having issues with some cars even on -5 brake bias.
- 212
- Belgium
- 13,892
- Adelaide
- Neomone
It baffles me that there can be a generic "suspension geometry" change made to the overall physics system at all.
Surely each car has it's own specific suspension geometry, and surely the physical consequences of applying forces to that geometry are pretty rigidly described by basic high school level physics? This isn't tyre physics where there's all sorts of unknown quantities and room for feel and variance - it's literally basic mechanical physics.
If they're messing around shoving fudge factors that apply to all cars into what is fundamentally a basic system of levers, pivots, springs and dampers then no wonder the physics is all over the place. This is the one part of the physics system I would have expected to be fully and comprehensively defined, so that all the more complex elements like tyres and aero have a solid base to work from.
- 862
- United States
The cars now feel heavier and sluggish compared to before the update, this is noticeable in cars like both F1 GTR variations that used to feel very light and drove pretty well that now feel like they have 500-1k lb of ballast added to the middle of the cars. I use a DS5 so maybe the new physics are better for wheel users but I am not a fan of the new change; though I will probably eventually get used to it after awhile.
Last edited:
- 2,430
- The failed experiment entitled “California”.
Depends on how in depth PD decided to go into their physics engine. There's A LOT that goes into the handling of any moving vehicle, beyond basic level physics. Size of levers, flex characteristics of chassis, flex characteristics of levers, damping size of absorbers that handle the levers, fluid dynamics, fluid viscosity, shim stacks, rotating mass calculations, pilot inputs.... I could go on for years with this stuff; and all these calculations are unique to each vehicle. While I agree with your general principal, it can get extremely complicated the further you dive into this stuff. The only question is.... how in depth did PD go with their base physics engine?
That's anyone's guess..
Last edited:
Similar threads
