Gran Turismo 7 Physics

Do you want more detailed and realistic physics on the next GT


  • Total voters
    203
  • Poll closed .
The latest update has definitely improved things, especially when it comes to rear grip at low speeds. I drove the Ford GT GTE and I found it to be more stable through the Bus Stop and Les Combes on Spa. The balance was better overall, but that's not to say that the car is on rails because I still managed to spin out a few times. You'll still get punished if you aren't careful. I also drove the Audi R8 GT3 on Nurburgring GP and it was shockingly similar to the Ferrari 488 I raced at the same track on ACC on Tuesday. Even though the braking distances and the lateral grip in GT7 is higher, a similar technique is required to drive it fast. You can't steer too quickly or trail brake because you'll upset the balance of the car. However there is more understeer which dulls the feeling of the front end compared to ACC. One of the biggest surprises from my testing last night was the traction control. It actually helps you go faster now.
 
Last edited:
The latest update has definitely improved things, especially when it comes to rear grip at low speeds. I drove the Ford GT GTE and I found it to be more stable through the Bus Stop and Les Combes on Spa. The balance was better overall, but that's not to say that the car is on rails because I still managed to spin out a few times. You'll still get punished if you aren't careful. I also drove the Audi R8 GT3 on Nurburgring GP and it was shockingly similar to the Ferrari 488 I raced at the same track on ACC on Tuesday. Even though the braking distances and the lateral grip in GT7 is higher, a similar technique is required to drive it fast. You can't steer too quickly or trail brake because you'll upset the balance of the car. However there is more understeer which dulls the feeling of the front end compared to ACC. One of the biggest surprises from my testing last night was the traction control. It actually helps you go faster now.

Interesting to hear! Are you a wheel user (I assume so, as you mention ACC...)?

We're you able to test tcs on a a range of vehicles, drive trains etc and noted it benefitted all/most of them. I noted someone earlier mentioned tcs isn't as intrusive any more... doesn't kill acceleration like pre 1.20. I won't be able to play gt7 for a couple of days so can't test myself right now.
 
The last few days I’ve been trying to get the gold lap at Maggiore, but I couldn’t beat a 1:58:7 (and I couldn’t even do that consistently; it was more like 1:59 average). Today, after the update, I did it on my second try with a 1:58.2. I almost never get a better time during my first few laps of the evening, but the car just turned in easier and gripped better.
 
Last edited:
B80
Interesting to hear! Are you a wheel user (I assume so, as you mention ACC...)?

We're you able to test tcs on a a range of vehicles, drive trains etc and noted it benefitted all/most of them. I noted someone earlier mentioned tcs isn't as intrusive any more... doesn't kill acceleration like pre 1.20. I won't be able to play gt7 for a couple of days so can't test myself right now.
I'm on a controller. I haven't tested traction control on other cars.
 
There's A LOT that goes into the handling of any moving vehicle, beyond basic level physics.
Right, but that's the stuff that you wouldn't label as "suspension geometry". I'm not saying that vehicle simulation isn't an art form with lots of room for a skilled practitioner to make a difference, but suspension geometry specifically is pretty black and white.

Hell, geometry itself is primary school stuff, and it being suspension geometry only makes it slightly harder because the equations to efficiently deal with time-dependent springs and dampers are more high school level.
I could go on for years with this stuff; and all these calculations are unique to each vehicle.
Right, and so per vehicle tweaks are understandable and expected. "We have updated the suspension data for the Honda NSX to provide a more accurate representation of the driving characteristics by removing excessive oversteer" is a reasonable patch note. I expect and welcome per car tweaks as they gain more information, or as their testing reveals unexpected behaviour.

"Physics Simulation Model - adjusted the suspension geometry" is weird, both because it explains nearly nothing and because it's hard to understand what change one would reasonably apply to the suspension geometry of a physics model as a whole. It's so broad that it suggests that this relatively simple part of the physics model is still up for wholesale modification, which is a bit of a red flag.

Maybe it's a bad translation. Maybe they're actually just doing individual car changes and they grouped them all up for this one patch note. Maybe there's additional information that we don't have that makes it make sense. Because the idea that suspension geometry is still a work in process in the 7th iteration of the game in 2022 seems whack.

I'm not surprised if PS1 and PS2 games have to make simplifications to complex geometry in order to run cleanly. But I expect a PS4/5 game to be able to run a mildly complex spring and damper system at full rate without simplifications, at least for the player car.

Cars can be hideously complex if you really want to dive into the weeds and squeeze out every last decimal point of accuracy, but for the sort of accuracy required for a game like Gran Turismo it doesn't seem like it should need to be. You can look at the numbers that go into defining a car in the data files for something like Assetto Corsa*, it's way less than you might think and that game arguably drives at least as well as GT7.

*Google "suspension.ini assetto corsa" if you're curious, you'll probably get some tutorials that will walk you through it. It's pretty cool. Likewise tyres.ini, engine.ini, aero.ini and car.ini.
 
I'm on a controller. I haven't tested traction control on other cars.
Well, I'm on controller and on TCS 1 and ABS default
I used R34 on tsukuba 2 days ago and I did 57.4 (700pp, 705hp on Sport Soft). Now, I can barely managed to get 1 mins (the update even gave me increased PP by 0.34). The car became sooooo understeer (especially on the middle of the cornering), the setup still same as 2 days ago (controller sensitivity on 3, car tuning is still same)

Any solutions?
 
Well, I'm on controller and on TCS 1 and ABS default
I used R34 on tsukuba 2 days ago and I did 57.4 (700pp, 705hp on Sport Soft). Now, I can barely managed to get 1 mins (the update even gave me increased PP by 0.34). The car became sooooo understeer (especially on the middle of the cornering), the setup still same as 2 days ago (controller sensitivity on 3, car tuning is still same)

Any solutions?
I don't know if this will fix your issue but could you try bumping the sensitivity to 10 ? Mine is always on 10 before and after the update and I feel like there's slightly less understeer than before. I will test again tonight though.
 
Well, I'm on controller and on TCS 1 and ABS default
I used R34 on tsukuba 2 days ago and I did 57.4 (700pp, 705hp on Sport Soft). Now, I can barely managed to get 1 mins (the update even gave me increased PP by 0.34). The car became sooooo understeer (especially on the middle of the cornering), the setup still same as 2 days ago (controller sensitivity on 3, car tuning is still same)

Any solutions?
I think my steering sensitivity is set at 5 so change it to that.
 
Tried to bump it to 7 and 9, it became too oversteer. Maybe I need to try 5? Or maybe tried to change the setup on LSD? I'm still confused on how LSD (also the suspension, where to if I wanted it softer or stiffer) setups on GT7
 
Last edited:
Tried to bump it to 7 and 9, it became too oversteer. Maybe I need to try 5? Or maybe tried to change the setup on LSD? I'm still confused on how LSD (also the suspension, where to if I wanted it softer or stiffer) setups on GT7
Maybe try 5 with untouched LSD settings then work it out from there ?
 
Last edited:
Let's see if it work or not?

Any guide on new update LSD settings? On patch notes, they tweak the LSD so it became more effective
Oh I'm sorry, I'm super blind when it comes to LSD settings lol I couldn't exactly figure them out.
 
Before the update I could no stop 1h Trial Mountian.
After the update I dont have any tyre do drive with 5 minutes remaining while also being slower around 1-1.5s per lap.
Feeling like I am a bad driver now.

But only tried with one car, maybe it is an outliner on this setup.
 
Right, but that's the stuff that you wouldn't label as "suspension geometry". I'm not saying that vehicle simulation isn't an art form with lots of room for a skilled practitioner to make a difference, but suspension geometry specifically is pretty black and white.

Hell, geometry itself is primary school stuff, and it being suspension geometry only makes it slightly harder because the equations to efficiently deal with time-dependent springs and dampers are more high school level.

Right, and so per vehicle tweaks are understandable and expected. "We have updated the suspension data for the Honda NSX to provide a more accurate representation of the driving characteristics by removing excessive oversteer" is a reasonable patch note. I expect and welcome per car tweaks as they gain more information, or as their testing reveals unexpected behaviour.

"Physics Simulation Model - adjusted the suspension geometry" is weird, both because it explains nearly nothing and because it's hard to understand what change one would reasonably apply to the suspension geometry of a physics model as a whole. It's so broad that it suggests that this relatively simple part of the physics model is still up for wholesale modification, which is a bit of a red flag.

Maybe it's a bad translation. Maybe they're actually just doing individual car changes and they grouped them all up for this one patch note. Maybe there's additional information that we don't have that makes it make sense. Because the idea that suspension geometry is still a work in process in the 7th iteration of the game in 2022 seems whack.

I'm not surprised if PS1 and PS2 games have to make simplifications to complex geometry in order to run cleanly. But I expect a PS4/5 game to be able to run a mildly complex spring and damper system at full rate without simplifications, at least for the player car.

Cars can be hideously complex if you really want to dive into the weeds and squeeze out every last decimal point of accuracy, but for the sort of accuracy required for a game like Gran Turismo it doesn't seem like it should need to be. You can look at the numbers that go into defining a car in the data files for something like Assetto Corsa*, it's way less than you might think and that game arguably drives at least as well as GT7.

*Google "suspension.ini assetto corsa" if you're curious, you'll probably get some tutorials that will walk you through it. It's pretty cool. Likewise tyres.ini, engine.ini, aero.ini and car.ini.

I agree with all of this.

I don’t see PD putting anymore work into a physics model than Kunos does with ACC. And to the layman, ACC is pretty complicated until you get into the weeds, like you correctly stated…. Which all high-dollar operations do. But that’s neither here or there.

Personally, I would love nothing more than to take full advantage of the “fully customizable computer” mod in GT7, and create my own fuel/ignition maps. I would also love to know all the intricacies of each mod has in relationship to that individual car. But admittedly, that’s waaaaay further than I would expect any simulation to let us go.

Nonetheless, I always go back to Sony’s State of Play event and wonder just how far they went into all the calculations and how they affect the performance of the cars. At the very least, it’s fun to think about
 
Last edited:
The "suspension geometry" in GT7 is pretty general imo. I take as an exemple the old VW Beetle and bus, which have the rear swing axle suspension where the wheel angle is always 90° to the driving axle. Thus the rear camber is fully linked to the rear suspension height setting. In the game however you can change camber and rear height separately, in the same way as for all other cars.

GT7 manages to give the cars very realistic handling, but imo they do this using very general and very simplified parameters for all cars.
 
Last edited:
The "suspension geometry" in GT7 is pretty general imo. I take as an exemple the old VW Beetle and bus, which have the rear swing axle suspension where the wheel angle is always 90° to the driving axle. Thus the rear camber is fully linked to the rear suspension height setting. In the game however you can change camber and rear height separately, in the same way as for all other cars.

GT7 manages to give the cars very realistic handling, but imo they do this using very general and very simplified parameters for all cars.
The old Toyota Corollas are solid rear axle and you cannot adjust the rear camber. Last I checked...
 
Last edited:
its not impossible, you can shim a solid rear axle to about 1-2 Degrees of camber, you can even get kits as conversions
Or another method(cambered axle) is to cut a slice out the housings and reweld them like this ae86:

So impossible right?
Initially, it was about adding shims, in your own words. Not about full custom. In any case, this design will not allow the camber to change while driving, as I said about the GT7.
 
If they just fire the physics guy and use his salary to license Kunos or Reiza's physics engine, everything would be solved. But Kaz won't do that, because working at PD has no consequences. You can keep making the same mistakes for 25 years and still keep your job :rolleyes:

N.B. I haven't caught up with this thread since page 109, so apologies if I missed some nuggets of wisdom here and there.
It's not that straight forward, PD are owned and controlled by Sony, there are hundreds if not thousands of people who are involved in the decision making process of what goes and what stays.

Mistakes happen in any profession, and being that PD are driven by high commercial pressure to meet deadlines, it wouldn't surprise me if developers are overworked, sleep deprived and shamed if you don't work beyond your contracted hours - that's the culture in various Japanese and Western organisations.

The sorry state of GT7 is merely a manifestation of all the above.
 
Last edited:
That's weird. My Nismo swapped Delta felt better now compared to before update.
Can you share some controller setups? I'm on controller, and now the steering became lazier and harder (understeering so bad)
I'm suspecting the diff update and suspension (still wondering how the suspension setups slider work, where is stiffer and softer etc)
I'm losing 3s on same track, same car, same settings after the update
 
Last edited:
Can you share some controller setups? I'm on controller, and now the steering became lazier and harder
I'm losing 3s on same track, same car, same settings after the update
I only set the sensitivity to 10. It's been that way since 1.13 patch. I drive a bit more careful now though since it's a lot easier to take damage than before but personally I like this change so far.
 
Back