Gran Turismo 7 Physics

Do you want more detailed and realistic physics on the next GT

  • Total voters
    203
  • Poll closed .
Arthur-A
I haven't played AC on a console, only on PC. With the CM, SOL and all the mods. Most recently it was at this place:
www.gripwerxracing.com

Simulation Racing Center | GripWerx Simulation Racing

www.gripwerxracing.com www.gripwerxracing.com
So it's on top notch equipment. The FFB is really good on the wheel. But overall I wasn't impressed with the AC physics. The tire grip level is unrealistically low. Playing GT7 on a controller I feel that it is much closer to IRL driving on a race track.
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Run! The forum is going to come for you lol
 
Beezer215
It sounds also like you're on console AC and not PC AC. There's a difference there and a bit more depth to the physics as well. Especially with CSP's extended physics. I had AC Ultimate Edition for my PS4 before too before going full on PC and I would say that console AC is a little more bare bones. We can now change new FFB profiles/settings on top of additional files that can be read in the data by AC's physics engine that compensate for past vague areas.
assetto-content-manager-ffb-settings-jpg.254638

CSP+FFB+Tweak.png

A recent video on the settings however I have a DD2 and my settings are not what this guy uses.
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I got around to this and tried to find a decent Evo X mod and failed. lol. There isn't a proper Streets of Willow mod either that I could find. Got the Sol Mod but it looks to be only for wet weather physics. Tested the GT86 on Eco tires and it is just like the PS4 version with extreme understeer. Physics in general feel similar. Compared the Huracan Evo to ACC's version and they are different from each other. I don't know, AC's physics feel very unnatural.
 
Firestone
I got around to this and tried to find a decent Evo X mod and failed. lol. There isn't a proper Streets of Willow mod either that I could find. Got the Sol Mod but it looks to be only for wet weather physics. Tested the GT86 on Eco tires and it is just like the PS4 version with extreme understeer. Physics in general feel similar. Compared the Huracan Evo to ACC's version and they are different from each other. I don't know, AC's physics feel very unnatural.
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Don't know what to tell you.
There's a good EVO out there. Not at my rig right now. So what were your pressures? Tire temps? Was the track rubbered in? Set to green, fast or optimal? What was ambient temp or track temp? You can put semislicks on the car if you want. Street tires on AC would be indicative of comfort hards in GT7 I would say. Put those on your car and see how it goes. If you like GT7 then have at it. For me, AC is marvelous, GT7, not so much. I'm sure if you used AC almost every single day and then went to GT7, you'd be like "what the hell is this" as well.

www.virtual-racing-cars.com

AC | California Raceway

DescriptionCalifornia Raceway is located in Willow Springs near Rosamond, California, about 80 mi (129 km) north of Los Angeles. It is the oldest permanent road course in the United States. Construction began in 1952, with the inaugural race held on November 23, 1953. The main track is a 2.5-mile (4
www.virtual-racing-cars.com www.virtual-racing-cars.com
 
Beezer215
Don't know what to tell you.
There's a good EVO out there. Not at my rig right now. So what were your pressures? Tire temps? Was the track rubbered in? Set to green, fast or optimal? What was ambient temp or track temp? You can put semislicks on the car if you want. Street tires on AC would be indicative of comfort hards in GT7 I would say. Put those on your car and see how it goes. If you like GT7 then have at it. For me, AC is marvelous, GT7, not so much. I'm sure if you used AC almost every single day and then went to GT7, you'd be like "what the hell is this" as well.

www.virtual-racing-cars.com

AC | California Raceway

DescriptionCalifornia Raceway is located in Willow Springs near Rosamond, California, about 80 mi (129 km) north of Los Angeles. It is the oldest permanent road course in the United States. Construction began in 1952, with the inaugural race held on November 23, 1953. The main track is a 2.5-mile (4
www.virtual-racing-cars.com www.virtual-racing-cars.com
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The video you posted is Big Willow. Unfortunately Streets of Willow mod seems to just be a Google Earth scan. Default car setting are always on optimal. Cold pressures 5psi below optimal. Track on fast and ~70°F. I looked at the street and eco tires. Stock FR-S came with a Prius tire option, so eco tires should break the rear easily, but the car scrubs like a fwd car on throttle. Street tires in AC perform similar to SH/SM in GT. They feel a little bit more realistic on the GT86, but I still find issue with the steering response. The snappy diva oversteer characteristics is just not there in AC. Instead traction break feels very slow and lethargic. GT captures this well.


I highly doubt a mod is going to recreate the Evo properly. GT7 properly simulates its S-AWC characteristics. I've already played a lot of AC, GT, going to to the track then back home to compare while the track experience is fresh. AC feels off and GT seems the closest.
 
I will say AC feels more authentic to real life driving. If the horrible snap oversteer in GT7 were gone, it would have been nice. But even than AC feel more realistic and believable. For now, GT7 have a better game for online gaming. I think kudos could be a real contender to gt 7, if they manage to do what the community wants. And gt community cares about roleplay, real traffic and freerun lobbies. Give them that and competitive matchmaking lobbies, with decent daily races. Smack, and PD need to do things properly again. I think they need people in the company that represents the community.
 
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AC's physics, on console,Is the most overrated thing by sim community and expeccialy on this forum.
Everytime i read comparision by users here,and i go to test them on the game (PS4),i never agree with what i read here.
Gt7 physics Is Better than AC console version.
 
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Td04
AC's physics, on console,Is the most overrated thing by sim community and expeccialy on this forum.
Everytime i read comparision by users here,and i go to test them on the game (PS4),i never agree with what i read here.
Gt7 physics Is Better than AC console version.
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Well AC on console came out 10 years ago. Ten years. So you would have to put that up with GT6 which would be in the time frame of when they both came out. Even AC on PC as updated as it is and modified by its community is still 10 years old and it holds up to this day just fine. It's aging no doubt in some areas, even Kunos themselves came out with a better physics model in ACC and again, can assume even better in AC2. These guys are good.
But if you're going to get into comparing physics models on Playstation, what do you really have? ACC and that's it and I find the complexity and detail of ACC to be way more compelling than what GT7 has come up with in their Gr. 3 cars. Plus what are you using? On a DD2 with Heusinkveld pedals, ACC wins hands down, of course I'm on PC and I have to use a drivehub for GT7 but I have a buddy with a DD Pro GT bundle and swear I like my feedback better than his anyways.
It is easily agreeable that GT7's physics are by far the best physics of any Gran Turismo game to date, without question. They won that battle hands down! 😄
 
Beezer215
Well AC on console came out 10 years ago. Ten years. So you would have to put that up with GT6 which would be in the time frame of when they both came out. Even AC on PC as updated as it is and modified by its community is still 10 years old and it holds up to this day just fine. It's aging no doubt in some areas, even Kunos themselves came out with a better physics model in ACC and again, can assume even better in AC2. These guys are good.
But if you're going to get into comparing physics models on Playstation, what do you really have? ACC and that's it and I find the complexity and detail of ACC to be way more compelling than what GT7 has come up with in their Gr. 3 cars. Plus what are you using? On a DD2 with Heusinkveld pedals, ACC wins hands down, of course I'm on PC and I have to use a drivehub for GT7 but I have a buddy with a DD Pro GT bundle and swear I like my feedback better than his anyways.
It is easily agreeable that GT7's physics are by far the best physics of any Gran Turismo game to date, without question. They won that battle hands down! 😄
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I use a t300 gt edition. And yes,i agree that on console acc Is far better than AC.
And It Is far better than GT7 if we talk about gt/gr Cars. Shame that i prefer drive stock/Road Cars and i prefer gt7 as a game all round, but that Is a personal taste.
 
Just trying 1.31. it seems like there is less grip? Braking is longer, apex speeds are lower, traction is less. Kerbs don't see much different but I haven't properly abused them yet. I'm guessing with less grip it will balance out to feeling about that same albeit less "launchy".

ATM in cars/tracks/tyres I know I'm 1-2s slower
 
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In my opinion suspension model Is been improved,and now,for example,RR cars likes GT3 RS behave Better, with a pronunced understeer on throttle.
Tyre model was improved even before this patch,now seems all round better but in my opinion there Is too much grip over the limit.
Power oversteer Is back on Gr Cars i tested,and this Is a good thing.
Drive on kerbs now sucks..It seems like they aren't there.
Ffb Is still bad.
 
I'm happy to say the PD have FINALLY fixed the 458 GT3! It's soo much easier to drive now. It doesn't have that stupid snap oversteer to constantly catch you out when you least expect it.
 
Did my usual testing with licences/missions/circuit experiences.

It feels like they increased tyre grip overall and went back to GT5/6/Sport style overdamped suspension. Also went back to omnipotent ABS where you can't lose control under braking no matter how hard or sideways the car is when you brake hard.

MR and RR cars feel a lot more stable (good). But all other cars, road cars and older cars now feels dead and lifeless like in older GTs. Cannot get lift off oversteer in FF cars no matter what you do. Rain physics and aquaplaning still sucks. Kerbs are even less punishing now and will encourage even more shortcutting over sausage kerbs. Downforce feels like its toned down a bit (good), haven't tested dirty air effect.

FFB road feeling is better, also the steering weight feels heavier with more downforce, but the overall feel is now very "rubbery" and the centering spring effect is too strong. It feels like they reduced the dynamic range of the FFB again. I'm using T-GT, FFB Torque 2 and Sens 1. Torque 2 is too strong for me now, but Torque 1 is too weak still.

So as usual, a few cars got better, others got worse. It's always going in circles with PD because they never aim for realism. They keep fudging numbers with a basically 25 year old physics engine and hope it covers everything from 60s F1 cars to the latest hybrid supercar with torque vectoring. It's never gonna feel right for 500+ cars.

I've said this multiple times in the thread but they should retire the physics guy and just use his salary to buy Kunos' physics engine. Saves them SO much headaches and constant physics/BOP revisions.
 
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Very pleasantly surprised with this update. I'm in the camp that finds the FFB has been enhanced for the better, and the experience generally more realistic.

More specifically, the oversteer characteristics have been MASSIVELY improved. It just so happens that I've spent a few days sliding around the circle at Willow Springs before the update hit, and was able to get a really good back to back impression of just how big of a change there is:

- Initiating power oversteer isn't much different in effort, but once intiated the speed of rotation and amount of rotation is much more reduced. You have much more time to countersteer into it, and the countersteering speed and amount is reduced.

- Once sliding, there's a much much much larger sweet spot where you can hold, modulate the slide, and increase the slide without looping inward.

- The rear tires don't so abruptly regain grip anymore. There's more opportunity to keep them sliding and more progressiveness to them. This means a lot less tendancy for huge snappy tankslappers.

- Countersteering has a much bigger effect. This is a big one! It used to be that beyond a certain point countersteering did almost nothing. The car would just loop in tighter and tighter or you would snap out of the slide. There was the flaw where if you were doing tight burnouts in a certain direction there was no way to reverse the direction through steering... the car kept spinning in the same direction regardless if you steered completely in or completely out! Now you can.

- Related to the above, you can now power oversteer out of turns on the gas using countersteering to catch the slide and smoothly straighten out, still on the gas, while preserving momentum and keeping the car smoothly transitioning out of oversteer. Whereas before you HAD to back out of the gas in a big way, then the rear tires catch abruptly, and the car snaps into place.

All said, this new oversteer behavior has made the driving experience massively more fun and IMO, much more true to my RL experience.
 
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Took the s2000 for a spin around on Tokyo, and I found it much easier to get the car under control after a slide or a bump from other cars. Using a controller.
 
I mirror these EXACT thoughts. I believe the weight transfer is much more realistic too, probably due to the suspension physics tweaks.

I feel as though the classic muscle cars have a chance to handle well now.

I tested out my LS swapped Firebird, with a few suspension tweaks, I took it to Nurburgring sprint... and loved it!

I guess its like a legitimate restomod with a modern suspension now, instead of feeling like driving a block of eccentric jello.
Iso Octane
Very pleasantly surprised with this update. I'm in the camp that finds the FFB has been enhanced for the better, and the experience generally more realistic.

More specifically, the oversteer characteristics have been MASSIVELY improved. It just so happens that I've spent a few days sliding around the circle at Willow Springs before the update hit, and was able to get a really good back to back impression of just how big of a change there is:

- Initiating power oversteer isn't much different in effort, but once intiated the speed of rotation and amount of rotation is much more reduced. You have much more time to countersteer into it, and the countersteering speed and amount is reduced.

- Once sliding, there's a much much much larger sweet spot where you can hold, modulate the slide, and increase the slide without looping inward.

- The rear tires don't so abruptly regain grip anymore. There's more opportunity to keep them sliding and more progressiveness to them. This means a lot less tendancy for huge snappy tankslappers.

- Countersteering has a much bigger effect. This is a big one! It used to be that beyond a certain point countersteering did almost nothing. The car would just loop in tighter and tighter or you would snap out of the slide. There was the flaw where if you were doing tight burnouts in a certain direction there was no way to reverse the direction through steering... the car kept spinning in the same direction regardless if you steered completely in or completely out! Now you can.

- Related to the above, you can now power oversteer out of turns on the gas using countersteering to catch the slide and smoothly straighten out, still on the gas, while preserving momentum and keeping the car smoothly transitioning out of oversteer. Whereas before you HAD to back out of the gas in a big way, then the rear tires catch abruptly, and the car snaps into place.

All said, this new oversteer behavior has made the driving experience massively more fun and IMO, much more true to my RL experience.
Click to expand...
 
Iso Octane
Very pleasantly surprised with this update. I'm in the camp that finds the FFB has been enhanced for the better, and the experience generally more realistic.

More specifically, the oversteer characteristics have been MASSIVELY improved. It just so happens that I've spent a few days sliding around the circle at Willow Springs before the update hit, and was able to get a really good back to back impression of just how big of a change there is:

- Initiating power oversteer isn't much different in effort, but once intiated the speed of rotation and amount of rotation is much more reduced. You have much more time to countersteer into it, and the countersteering speed and amount is reduced.

- Once sliding, there's a much much much larger sweet spot where you can hold, modulate the slide, and increase the slide without looping inward.

- The rear tires don't so abruptly regain grip anymore. There's more opportunity to keep them sliding and more progressiveness to them. This means a lot less tendancy for huge snappy tankslappers.

- Countersteering has a much bigger effect. This is a big one! It used to be that beyond a certain point countersteering did almost nothing. The car would just loop in tighter and tighter or you would snap out of the slide. There was the flaw where if you were doing tight burnouts in a certain direction there was no way to reverse the direction through steering... the car kept spinning in the same direction regardless if you steered completely in or completely out! Now you can.

- Related to the above, you can now power oversteer out of turns on the gas using countersteering to catch the slide and smoothly straighten out, still on the gas, while preserving momentum and keeping the car smoothly transitioning out of oversteer. Whereas before you HAD to back out of the gas in a big way, then the rear tires catch abruptly, and the car snaps into place.

All said, this new oversteer behavior has made the driving experience massively more fun and IMO, much more true to my RL experience.
Click to expand...
These are all the things I want to hear! I'll be playing a little later and I'm extra pumped for it now.

Finding and holding opposite lock, then being able to power out of countersteer until the tires regain traction is an example of those little realisms that speaks to a lot of strange differences between GT and real world physics. The game is so much harder than real life in this respect, and whenever I'm hooning around for fun in the game my hands are flying all over the wheel trying to keep up with the twitchy way cars snap into and out of grip. It's doable, but much harder than real life in most situations, which is super frustrating when the game gets so many other things right.

If what you say is true, then this update is amazing.
 
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LSFDRX
These are all the things I want to hear! I'll be playing a little later and I'm extra pumped for it now.

Finding and holding opposite lock, then being able to power out of countersteer until the tires regain traction is an example of those little realisms that speaks to a lot of strange differences between GT and real world physics. The game is so much harder than real life in this respect, and whenever I'm hooning around for fun in the game my hands are flying all over the wheel trying to keep up with the twitchy way cars snap into and out of grip. It's doable, but much harder than real life in most situations, which is super frustrating when the game gets so many other things right.

If what you say is true, then this update is amazing.
Click to expand...
What he Say Is true.
The only thing i don't agree Is about ffb,that in my opinion still sucks. I don't know If Is a problem with my wheel (t300 gt) or his firmware.
With my old g923 ffb was less annoying on this game,but was weaker and less qualitative on AC and ACC.
 
LeGeNd-1
I've said this multiple times in the thread but they should retire the physics guy and just use his salary to buy Kunos' physics engine. Saves them SO much headaches and constant physics/BOP revisions.
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Some people will complain no matter what about GT. The updates lean hard on the AC type of physics with more understeer. GT still feels better since the balance of the car can be shifted a lot better with steering input and throttle and can still induce oversteer when rebalancing the momentum. AC suffers from the cars not being snappy enough on throttle. Progression to the loss of traction is too slow and there is an absence of quick steering input to correct the cars. I messed around with a lot of mods. The GR86 feels great in AC, but drives better in GT. However, there is too much low quality content and vanilla car physics are meh.
 
Td04
What he Say Is true.
The only thing i don't agree Is about ffb,that in my opinion still sucks. I don't know If Is a problem with my wheel (t300 gt) or his firmware.
With my old g923 ffb was less annoying on this game,but was weaker and less qualitative on AC and ACC.
Click to expand...
I finally made time to play, and yes... what he says is true! I can't overstate how important this trait is, not only because it's the way cars perform in the real world, but for how much this means for GT7's tire model and physics as a whole.

As far as FFB goes, my T300RS feels amazing! There is a much wider range of feedback, huge differences in force load between tire compounds/construction, and a lot more road surface/curbing detail is present. Didn't even have to change my settings (max torque 4, sensitivity 6), though I still may play around with them to see if any changes make it better even though I'm happy with it.

Overall the update is amazing, and brings a lot of great changes to the physics model. 4WD cars pull themselves on throttle instead of being tail happy like RWD cars. RWD cars can be managed in oversteer now, with lots of communication in opposite-lock and ability to modulate angle with the throttle, which I can't rave about enough. Rear-engine cars are WAAAY less prone to their tail coming around, and much more understeer is present on throttle, which makes finding and exploiting their balance so much fun. FWD cars (at least various Integras I have built) have lost that strange and annoying RWD character too, where they would be loose in the rear on throttle (which is an insane trait, and so unlike reality), and are now planted in a straight line on throttle. There still is less lift-throttle oversteer than I feel is lost, but it's still a great improvement over 1.30.

I found no issues with traction/understeer with the SC430 or 911 GR3 cars. Tire temps are more important, and cold tires don't like to be pushed, but when they're warm there is tons of grip and so much satisfying load building through the wheel when really pushing a slick-tire into slow speed corners.

Tires seems to be separate carcasses between models. Comforts are very squishy compared to the stiffer and more responsive sports, then moving up to race brings more lateral stiffness and response, along with deep amounts of traction and feedback.

The balance between over/understeer is much more delicate, and braking and compound traction limits are very defined. You can no longer bury cars in the brakes and expect to have a bunch of turn in too. I think a lot of people are struggling with finding this new balance due to being used to the less-correct previous model, and pass it off as "cars understeer now" while in truth the new balance is much better, and cars can be controlled as they are in the real world.

In general, everything I'm noticing brings us closer to realism when it comes to GT7 physics. There are still many things that can be improved, but I don't see any shortcomings compared to 1.30, and definitely don't agree with those that think this is a step backwards.
 
Firestone
Some people will complain no matter what about GT. The updates lean hard on the AC type of physics with more understeer. GT still feels better since the balance of the car can be shifted a lot better with steering input and throttle and can still induce oversteer when rebalancing the momentum. AC suffers from the cars not being snappy enough on throttle. Progression to the loss of traction is too slow and there is an absence of quick steering input to correct the cars. I messed around with a lot of mods. The GR86 feels great in AC, but drives better in GT. However, there is too much low quality content and vanilla car physics are meh.
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I think this update improved overall a physics that was better than AC one even before this last patch.
The truth Is that there are a lot people with "elitist" attitude. They invested so much ego and money too,in something that have to be better than this "arcade game for masses" ,that now they can't admit that gt7's physics Is good.
 
LSFDRX
I finally made time to play, and yes...
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Was looking forward to hearing what you thought =) Glad you and others share the same experience on this, and then some. It really is a huge step foward in driving experience.

The observation about burying in the brakes and turning in is a very good one. I had actually learned to do this from the time trials (Z TT @ Maggiore turn 1) where you absolutely had to full brake and turn toward the apex at the same time. I've always felt it a bit off driving this way.
 
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LSFDRX
I finally made time to play, and yes... what he says is true! I can't overstate how important this trait is, not only because it's the way cars perform in the real world, but for how much this means for GT7's tire model and physics as a whole.

As far as FFB goes, my T300RS feels amazing! There is a much wider range of feedback, huge differences in force load between tire compounds/construction, and a lot more road surface/curbing detail is present. Didn't even have to change my settings (max torque 4, sensitivity 6), though I still may play around with them to see if any changes make it better even though I'm happy with it.

Overall the update is amazing, and brings a lot of great changes to the physics model. 4WD cars pull themselves on throttle instead of being tail happy like RWD cars. RWD cars can be managed in oversteer now, with lots of communication in opposite-lock and ability to modulate angle with the throttle, which I can't rave about enough. Rear-engine cars are WAAAY less prone to their tail coming around, and much more understeer is present on throttle, which makes finding and exploiting their balance so much fun. FWD cars (at least various Integras I have built) have lost that strange and annoying RWD character too, where they would be loose in the rear on throttle (which is an insane trait, and so unlike reality), and are now planted in a straight line on throttle. There still is less lift-throttle oversteer than I feel is lost, but it's still a great improvement over 1.30.

I found no issues with traction/understeer with the SC430 or 911 GR3 cars. Tire temps are more important, and cold tires don't like to be pushed, but when they're warm there is tons of grip and so much satisfying load building through the wheel when really pushing a slick-tire into slow speed corners.

Tires seems to be separate carcasses between models. Comforts are very squishy compared to the stiffer and more responsive sports, then moving up to race brings more lateral stiffness and response, along with deep amounts of traction and feedback.

The balance between over/understeer is much more delicate, and braking and compound traction limits are very defined. You can no longer bury cars in the brakes and expect to have a bunch of turn in too. I think a lot of people are struggling with finding this new balance due to being used to the less-correct previous model, and pass it off as "cars understeer now" while in truth the new balance is much better, and cars can be controlled as they are in the real world.

In general, everything I'm noticing brings us closer to realism when it comes to GT7 physics. There are still many things that can be improved, but I don't see any shortcomings compared to 1.30, and definitely don't agree with those that think this is a step backwards.
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Always good to find people with discernment. You explained it perfectly. People accostumed with great turn-in possibilities are frustrated/unwilling to adapt to the new realism in this part of the physics. Before this patch, GT had amazing brakes that let you turn as if you weren't smashing your foot down the brake pedal
 

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