Gran Turismo 7 Physics

[chengman]

I had very similar things happening in Subaru BRZ & Toyota 86GT (stock) on Nordschleife. The front basically lifted completely off the road after a bump mid-corner, of course resulting in the car violently pointing towards the outside barrier. I was on SS tyres, so it felt like the whole grip on the front axle was just suddenly lost (well, obviously, since they didn't touch the ground anymore). In any case, I do think that the suspension should have been able to stay in touch with the tarmac, and anything that happened was a result of the fact that it, for some reason, in these new physics couldn't cope with the bumps.

I also had somewhat similar events in other cars when going over curbs. Sometimes all hell breaks loose.

I'm sure it's happened to many other people on other cars as well, but they just never noticed because of how difficult it is to figure out the new physics model. I originally thought it was because I switched directions too quick so it was understeer, then I remembered this is 1.50 physics so I decided to look at the replay.

 

[Nebuc72]

There's definitely something wrong with a lot of the Evos. I think whatever bandaid approach they took to fixing the 1.49 glitch basically results in a part of the suspension 'hard resetting' when it hits a certain value, and whatever the Evos suspension geometry is like lets you hit that cap really really easily, causing them to bounce everywhere.
From my little investigation into it it looks like a cap on max expansion, so going into hard corners causes the opposite front wheel to reset and rebound the car all over the place. The evo 6 is particularly bad for it - it's exactly what is happening in the Clubman Cup Plus event at Watkins Glen and actually it's happening to the blue 500 Mondial too if you watch it, as that car also rebounds and spins out randomly.

I hope they are aware of it, knowing its a bandaid, and fix it properly in future patches, but I think it needs to be documented properly too which I haven't properly got around to yet. It happens with a stock Evo 6 but if you put RS on it with no suspension changes (just to exaggerate the suspension movement) you can really see how its resetting under expansion.

 

[TumeK5]

There's definitely something wrong with a lot of the Evos.

Good thing I'm not a fan of the Evos!

 

[kiseca]

There's definitely something wrong with a lot of the Evos. I think whatever bandaid approach they took to fixing the 1.49 glitch basically results in a part of the suspension 'hard resetting' when it hits a certain value, and whatever the Evos suspension geometry is like lets you hit that cap really really easily, causing them to bounce everywhere.
From my little investigation into it it looks like a cap on max expansion, so going into hard corners causes the opposite front wheel to reset and rebound the car all over the place. The evo 6 is particularly bad for it - it's exactly what is happening in the Clubman Cup Plus event at Watkins Glen and actually it's happening to the blue 500 Mondial too if you watch it, as that car also rebounds and spins out randomly.

I hope they are aware of it, knowing its a bandaid, and fix it properly in future patches, but I think it needs to be documented properly too which I haven't properly got around to yet. It happens with a stock Evo 6 but if you put RS on it with no suspension changes (just to exaggerate the suspension movement) you can really see how its resetting under expansion.

I was wondering if the common denominator was 4WD but then you mentioned the Mondial. When driving, my GT-R just felt really mushy and imprecise, but when watching the replays the wheels are bouncing around all over the place like the dampers are completely shot.

 

[Draggon]

I'm sure it's happened to many other people on other cars as well, but they just never noticed because of how difficult it is to figure out the new physics model. I originally thought it was because I switched directions too quick so it was understeer, then I remembered this is 1.50 physics so I decided to look at the replay.

It's happening with the Greening Maverick too, on SS tires with no other changes. The car is pretty much out of control on Road Atlanta. I didn't bother to try it with different tires or on another course.

 

[Galvston]

Ive lost my zmile, seems the physics will be patched into oblivion, as they are somewhat broken. We wait!

 

[suomi1]

It's happening with the Greening Maverick too, on SS tires with no other changes. The car is pretty much out of control on Road Atlanta. I didn't bother to try it with different tires or on another course.

The Nissan Z Performance '23 is also kind of twitchy to drive now. Driving it doesn't feel natural at all imo.

 

[chengman]

It's happening with the Greening Maverick too, on SS tires with no other changes. The car is pretty much out of control on Road Atlanta. I didn't bother to try it with different tires or on another course.

It seems the only cars that benefitted from the new physics are the GR3/4 cars. Anything else that's broken isn't important

 

[mynameis66]

It seems the only cars that benefitted from the new physics are the GR3/4 cars. Anything else that's broken isn't important

I dont know if ive misunderstood this comment but I wouldnt class non Gr3/4 cars being broken as not important.Not everyone wants to stick to gr3 or gr4 cars.

 

[chengman]

I dont know if ive misunderstood this comment but I wouldnt class non Gr3/4 cars being broken as not important.Not everyone wants to stick to gr3 or gr4 cars.

Nah you understood me perfectly. GR3/4 cars are the only cars we can drive in the game without having to worry about problems with the physics model. Anything else is entirely unexpected and if there is a problem, you can guarantee it won't be fixed for another month at minimum. As a result the race cars are the only way to play the game without suddenly flying off track because your car decided to fly into space.

 

[mynameis66]

@chengman I agree, hopefully when or if they deem it a problem they sort it with the next update.I dont see anything in the updated issues on the website yet. 👍

 

[Td04]

I don't agree at all that all road cars are broken.
All the ones i driven pre and post patch are way better now.

 

[Bojador]

Nah you understood me perfectly. GR3/4 cars are the only cars we can drive in the game without having to worry about problems with the physics model. Anything else is entirely unexpected and if there is a problem, you can guarantee it won't be fixed for another month at minimum. As a result the race cars are the only way to play the game without suddenly flying off track because your car decided to fly into space.

Gr2 cars seem fine to me as well. Also tried the Porsche gt3 rs and didn't notice anything weird. Same goes for the new impreza and ferrari.

 

[kiseca]

I don't think it's between race cars and road cars but between cars with hard suspension and cars with soft suspension. But then, if it's suspension movement and bumping over kerbs that is triggering problems, why are the dirt stages working out so well? 🤔

Something is stil funky with the wheel or suspension behaviour and I am hoping that 1.50 was just a bandaid to stop lunar modules and a more in depth fix is still in the works.

 

[Galvston]

I don't agree at all that all road cars are broken.
All the ones i driven pre and post patch are way better now.

Hyperbole is a law

 

[LSFDRX]

Good thing I'm not a fan of the Evos!

 

[Artremis]

Some of the roadcars are definitely borked and the will have to be fixed but I find most of them to be a whole lot more fun to drive regardless. Of the ones I've tried the biggest offenders are the Gallardo with the steering bug (haven't checked on 1.50 maybe it got fixed) and some engine swapped RX-7 which becomes a trampoline at high speeds, but I'm also not big on tuning / builds so surely people pushing things more to the limit will have more issues.

Just hope they can fix these problems without noticeably affecting the non-broken cars in a bad way.

 

[LSFDRX]

Was interested in what people were saying about the EVOs and E36 M3 so I gave them both a run at Deep Forest to see what's up and... yep, the EVO is definitely broken, and the M3 seems to suffer from catastrophic uncorrectable oversteer.

The EVO acts like when the front suspension gets overloaded it pushes back with force, much like the broken busses from the update. Its like hydraulic suspension hopping once it hits the bumpstops. Here's a clip...



The M3 just oversteers into oblivion when it's rotated on throttle. It is catchable most of the time, but with a LOT of steering angle and a huge drop in pace. Overly aggressive for sure.

 

[kiseca]

Was interested in what people were saying about the EVOs and E36 M3 so I gave them both a run at Deep Forest to see what's up and... yep, the EVO is definitely broken, and the M3 seems to suffer from catastrophic uncorrectable oversteer.

The EVO acts like when the front suspension gets overloaded it pushes back with force, much like the broken busses from the update. Its like hydraulic suspension hopping once it hits the bumpstops. Here's a clip...



The M3 just oversteers into oblivion when it's rotated on throttle. It is catchable most of the time, but with a LOT of steering angle and a huge drop in pace. Overly aggressive for sure.

How did that moment feel in the car? Did it feel like the front wheels had actually left the ground, like a glitch, or did it just feel very unsettled, like it was by design?

 

[Nebuc72]

Was interested in what people were saying about the EVOs and E36 M3 so I gave them both a run at Deep Forest to see what's up and... yep, the EVO is definitely broken, and the M3 seems to suffer from catastrophic uncorrectable oversteer.

The EVO acts like when the front suspension gets overloaded it pushes back with force, much like the broken busses from the update. Its like hydraulic suspension hopping once it hits the bumpstops. Here's a clip...



The M3 just oversteers into oblivion when it's rotated on throttle. It is catchable most of the time, but with a LOT of steering angle and a huge drop in pace. Overly aggressive for sure.

This is a great example. You can see what I mean about it hitting those certain values and then fighting/popping back and rebounding the whole car. So weird they didn't notice this.

 

[Nebuc72]

Just finished some of my own testing and the Evo VI is practically undrivable on some tracks. Please keep in mind this is stock - this is how it acts coming out the dealer. There is absolutely a huge problem.





The Evo III and the 500 Mondial are the other two I have found that I would say are as bad as this. The 500 Mondial can rebound so hard it rolls itself.. as I found out.

 

[kiseca]

Also asking for those, from inside the car do those bounces feel like glitches or do they just feel like a bad tempered car? I am asking because if it's the latter then it's possible that some glitchy behaviour is going unnoticed and is just being attributed to the car being unruly by design. Did you have to go to an external view to confirm that it was glitching, or was it very obvious when you were actually driving at that moment?

 

[Nebuc72]

Also asking for those, from inside the car do those bounces feel like glitches or do they just feel like a bad tempered car? I am asking because if it's the latter then it's possible that some glitchy behaviour is going unnoticed and is just being attributed to the car being unruly by design. Did you have to go to an external view to confirm that it was glitching, or was it very obvious when you were actually driving at that moment?

It feels like the car gets jerked up into the air, so basically it feels like exactly what is happening. If it's mini rebounds and juddering then you can feel that too and even see it in the screen shaking.

 

[GordonS]

Just finished some of my own testing and the Evo VI is practically undrivable on some tracks. Please keep in mind this is stock - this is how it acts coming out the dealer. There is absolutely a huge problem.





The Evo III and the 500 Mondial are the other two I have found that I would say are as bad as this. The 500 Mondial can rebound so hard it rolls itself.. as I found out.

View attachment 1381002

Strange. Tested both Mitsus + also the VI after 'body rigidity' at the same location. No glitches here.

 

[Nebuc72]

Strange. Tested both Mitsus + also the VI after 'body rigidity' at the same location. No glitches here.

Try bumping it up a tyre compound or two. Sport Softs it should barely be able to make the corner. On Hards it needed a more specific entry angle to happen but was still plenty problematic.

 

[GordonS]

Try bumping it up a tyre compound or two. Sport Softs it should barely be able to make the corner. On Hards it needed a more specific entry angle to happen but was still plenty problematic.

Happened and the more you raise the car the crazier the situation becomes. And with lower suspension settings the problem vanishes. I also tried Mitsu GTO and R33 GT-R with suspension variants but no oddities there.

 

[LSFDRX]

How did that moment feel in the car? Did it feel like the front wheels had actually left the ground, like a glitch, or did it just feel very unsettled, like it was by design?

You can definitely feel when the car is getting close to bottoming out through steering stiffness and a slight bit of kick back, but when it leaves the ground and comes back down I don't remember anything remarkable about the steering. Of course then you have to gather up the resulting mess, as you can see, haha.

Even when it doesn't bounce there are times when you can feel the suspension approaching that point. At Deep Forest through the final left hand compression towards the finish line you can feel it stiffen up and harden.

The corner 3-4-5 esses into the tunnel can be normal or bouncy depending on how hard you're pushing. Up until then though the car is great.

 

[snowgt]

Just had the same front unloading in an M3 Sport Evolution completely stock and on SS tyres.

Lago Maggiore, going through the esses, this is after the right going into the second left - meaning the right side will get loaded. Watch what happened (and this is just after weight transfer while going through the left-hander and before hitting any kerb (which are very flat anyway there)...

The right rear suspension compresses, but not seemingly overly so, but the front left just completely lifts up off the ground. It's like there is no weight on the front whatsoever.

 

[wheelhp]

What does "standard" mean for the G29 settings?

Prior to 1.49 I had Torque at 4 and Sensitivity at 1 and it felt pretty good. With 1.49 I found I needed to turn the torque up a bit and I also found that setting the sensitivity fully to the other end of the scale - 10 - really brought the FFB back to life. So I've now settled on 6 for torque and 10 for sensitivity. Those are the only two settings that make any difference at all for the G29 (aside from axis stuff like setting deadzones of course). I find the FFB on the G29 to now be just fantastic in most of the cars I've tried. Better than prior to 1.49.

I think the ffb for the g29 still needs a bit of work. We shouldnt have to have the sensitivity all the way up just to get the feeling back. Somethings amiss imo but when youve got the right car and tune it does feel better

 

[kiseca]

Just had the same front unloading in an M3 Sport Evolution completely stock and on SS tyres.

Lago Maggiore, going through the esses, this is after the right going into the second left - meaning the right side will get loaded. Watch what happened (and this is just after weight transfer while going through the left-hander and before hitting any kerb (which are very flat anyway there)...

The right rear suspension compresses, but not seemingly overly so, but the front left just completely lifts up off the ground. It's like there is no weight on the front whatsoever.

View attachment 1381138View attachment 1381139

The front right wheelarch looks unnaturally high too for a car going around a left hand bend on a race track. It should be compressed, and the only way it would be raised up that high if it hasn't itself just gone over a speedbump is if the front left hit a ramp tall enough to pick the whole front end of the car up. Considering the kerb is quite flat, the suspension / damping is clearly not behaving correctly.