- 172
- United Kingdom
Gran Turismo 7 Physics
- Thread starter Shingo_civic
- 6,143 comments
- 464,559 views
- 1,984
- Germany
Shouldnt that be solved with a "correct" suspension setup in relation to the added spring travel distance?
- 1,238
- Canada
- the-1st-hawkeyez
Here we go again. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it. Since 1.49 I couldn’t put my finger on it but my gut told me there were suspension physics issues. Cobra has intermittent tire/fender rub, pantera too, maybe I push cars a little too hard in the corners or brake too much during cornering but some of it is just turning and going over bumps. It’s not as bad as the early days of a Shelby mustang wide tires and offset wheel chop but it’s still there.
Cars flying in the air, cars acting like they’re driving over moguls during steering. Maybe it’s time they just roll it back to 1.48.
- 172
- United Kingdom
I'd argue that's a workaround. The solution that should be used is allowing the full range of suspension settings available in the game to be used without the car bugging out, and I'll concede this is a simple concept to express but I am sure a much more difficult concept to implement without errors in a game.
Either way, this workaround cannot be applied to H. Ojala's Evo, as it is an AI car.
Perhaps the question then is, why are the AI cars running around with raised ride heights? Is it because in game it's faster? Is it because there's some other condition (or bug) that they suffer from and raising the ride height is already a workaround - maybe the tyres catching on fenders at any lower ride height? Is it just a random setting applied when the AI gets a tuned car?
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- 1,605
- Japan
Given that none of the other AI drivers in the race have this setup, and that he is set to be from Finland and his Evo has rally-style Enkei wheels, I suspect he is a rally driver and this setup is intentional to make his Evo look like a rally car.
This may seem like a bit of a strange theory, but it's common for AI cars in the game, even in other events, to have styles and tunes that evoke some kind of backstory.
And the fact that this "rally car" tune is unique to his Evo and not seen in other AI Evos is why I propose this theory.
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- 874
- United States
Ive actually rarely thought about the inner ear thing. Kinda always thought it was sensation driven. Im familiar with north country driving. Played a lot of hockey and have ski’d mountains, on the water, most of my life. Also, i have uncountable miles on everything from torque-y box trucks, to fun cars. So, im very familiar with grip and all of the various ways to loose and reacquire it. That said, i struggled to manage pre 1.49 the whole grip thing. I refused to adapt to the games weird ffb because i found driving in vr affected my irl responses and was effectively training me to scrub tires and not respect weight snd suspension transfer. Working from home, the past year and a half, compounded this as suddenly i was putting more gaming miles than real ones. I’d go rip around on the back roads(see eiger) and almost bin the dang thing because i’d forget to set up the car properly going into a corner. Now, bugs aside, on the ddX at least, things feel much more like actual driving. And while i could go on about specifics, deep down, personally, when my brain checks out and muscle memory takes over, and things work out. Thats the best compliment i can pay to the current physics implementation. Im sorry about the bugs, but this new model is a big step in the right direction.
On the upside with you logi guys, at least your wheel worked great for a year+ and will again. My ddX sucked until last week..and full force isn’t even supported yet. Hopefully they fix your true force, and roll out full force soon. The ddX has been out plenty long enough to still be waiting for full support.
As for the 1.5 bugs..well, given console patch protocols, 1.5 was very likely to be the quickest fix possible so it could be processed, I imagine a real fix should come soon. Then again, i thought full force would have definitely been implemented by July…so what do i know 🤷♂️
- 172
- United Kingdom
I can't speak for all (or any) G Pro owners, but if I'd paid £1000 for the best wheel to enjoy GT7 with, and they then went and broke it to such an extent that it made the 1/4 price G29 feel much better, the change in physics between 1.48 and 1.50 wouldn't come anywhere close to balancing the scales. With or without bouncy castle bugs.
They won't roll back to 1.48 now, but I can't see why it would be a bad thing. They can introduce the new physics when the patch is properly tested. They should have hung on with it until 1.49 was ready in the first place. Easy to say in hindsight of course, but it's hard to see how they could have released a patch without noticing that it messes up the FFB on the premier wheel used with the game.
Maybe they did notice.
- 874
- United States
Well. I paid approx(tax) about $1400 for mine and it sucked until 1.49. Nothing but a mildly glorified dd pro, despite gt7 naming it as the new official wheel. Also, the ddX’s force functions are still sitting on the shelf. At least you guys were supported from the release of your wheel. Besides, things are known to be far from perfect. Hopefully it gets cleaned up. Although, wishing dev’s would release games without bugs is something ive seen lamented for decades now. Hasn’t happened yet! Might want to let that go.
Best. Maybe, but only until pd incorporates full force. 15 NM as opposed to 11 NM, and the ability to use whatever wheel I want to. I have the extreme, but I use a Cube Control GT Zero rim along with the PBMR and APM. The Extreme wheel is actually pretty good, but the GT Zero is something else. As good as the GT Zero is, I'm actually thinking about upgrading it to the leather Reparto Corse Zero.
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- 13,959
- Ireland
- driftking18594
- CiaranGTR94
This is fine, it's not like the esports sweats that comprised the playtest team would care about such trifling things as the single player campaign.
- 1,984
- Germany
If the setup is unchanged over all updates, then it was faster.
Still it is somewhat strange to apply this kind of "speed tune" to an AI car then they literally have all freedom to design AI cars outside of the rules that apply to the player (as seen quite often on other cars).
This is a question one could ask about really alot of updates of alot of (recent) games.
How come "the bug" was not noticed? It is not possible it wasnt, so then it was simply ignored as "something minor that shall not prevent a release/update".
- 1,238
- Canada
- the-1st-hawkeyez
Baby was born premature. Why? They induced labour.
I’m not bummed about trueforce, I have it cranked, it’s there. It could be more but right now it’s only a bit less than where I had it.
I’m bummed about braking hard and the wheel cranks to the right hard and then the FFB disappears.
I’m bummed about taking sweeping corners and the wheel pulls the opposite direction of the corner ever half a second of so.
I’m bummed about wheel oscillation on cars that never had it before and others have violent oscillation.
I’m bummed about the glitches in the new physics, I have one car with a pp ⚠️ that I setup EXACTLY the same as a car that was setup before the update which doesn’t have a pp ⚠️.
The problem with the wheel is it feels like I have a passenger that is trying to drive for me at times. I can feel the physic improvements thru all of what I mention. But it’s not worth it.
I almost forgot, the drastic FFB strength range between cars is crazy. The RA272 feels like the wheel is dead until it’s not, and then I’ve got like 💩 boxes with comfort tires on that have much heavier steering and then I’ve got heavier cars with sports tires on with light FFB. I don’t know what the game is trying to accomplish with these extremes. They were there before but it was strictly related to tire compound and even then I felt it should be narrowed slightly not exaggerated even more.
Us Logitech pro guys had a good feeling when before but lacking the full FFB strength. If all they did was narrow the strength gap between cars and allow those who wanted more to crank it up the wheel would be perfect. I had everything on 10 prior to the update. Only a few cars felt heavy but you could just not bother switching to another profile and run it as is. Now I’m still at 10 torque with some cars feeling pretty light at that and others have surprised me at the first corner, almost not even being able to turn the wheel. For the heaviest cars I’ve got a profile with 4nm knocked out of it. Fine, just switch profiles, but the problem is those exaggerated peaks on cars that feel light to begin with. Hardly any steering weight and then boom, wrist snapper.
- 3,629
- London, Ontario
- voodoovaj
It seems to me that there is some aspect of the physics acting back on the car. Like, if the suspension travel is that long, with a really sticky tire, the car would likely roll.
Consider stadium trucks on asphalt. The suspension compresses quite a lot, but they're still running hard off road tires that slip.
I wonder if what happens in the video can be replicated with comfort tires
- 676
- United States
More issues became apparent with the latest batch of weekly races.
Nismo 400R has the most ridiculous amount of FFB I've felt in the game ever. Its like trying to flip my whole rig on its side instead of turning the wheel. All the while the MP4/4 the FFB might as well be turned off... it's like the FFB model is flipped upside down.
The BAC Mono is flat out boring to drive. Super light uncommunicative FFB, understeer, poor braking even on a SS tire. It just makes zero sense that a lightweight, open wheel track-car is more lifeless than a Buick Roadmaster.
There are more and more issues raising their heads as we go along. A lot of cars are great, but the FFB issues, tire temp inconsistencies, and suspension weirdness still requires a lot of looking into and repair.
Hope the next update comes with another sweeping revamp of the physics.
Nismo 400R has the most ridiculous amount of FFB I've felt in the game ever. Its like trying to flip my whole rig on its side instead of turning the wheel. All the while the MP4/4 the FFB might as well be turned off... it's like the FFB model is flipped upside down.
The BAC Mono is flat out boring to drive. Super light uncommunicative FFB, understeer, poor braking even on a SS tire. It just makes zero sense that a lightweight, open wheel track-car is more lifeless than a Buick Roadmaster.
There are more and more issues raising their heads as we go along. A lot of cars are great, but the FFB issues, tire temp inconsistencies, and suspension weirdness still requires a lot of looking into and repair.
Hope the next update comes with another sweeping revamp of the physics.
Just tried driving my Sauber 89’C9 at a multitude of different tracks and no matter what I did to car settings , game setting's or even wheel settings(Logi Pro) the wobble is out of control.
The car doesn’t seem to make sense its on ice then has a ton of grip and most of my cars feel like someone is pulling on the wheel intermittently almost a tugging or jerking feel like something is broken in the suspension or loose. If this is by design it really causes a very undesirable affect and holding my line in tight racing now is next to impossible, I just back off out of fear as I'm not in control of the car properly. This may all be me but I don’t think so.
I can only hope that they can get me back to where I was before. If not it was a fun 400+ hours driving while it lasted. Will be patient but would feel better if it all was addressed with us Logi Pro users.
I’m convinced what PD have done is something I wanted done since the first Gran Turismo. It’s a blink and you’ll miss it moment, but when the SVX below hops over the curb, it does it realistically with a bounce and settles.
PD refined the tuning and they’ve actually programmed parameters for extreme reactions to happen as in the video below. Note the attitude of the V8 Quattro at corner exit.
Now I’m always watching Group A videos. Specifically for the attitudes of the cars. It’s how I set up all my suspensions. To get that bounce over curbs and to see the suspension compressing and expanding as the real Group A race cars do.
I use a DS5, but I still get the same inputs through the controller as what Tsuchiya is experiencing in the video below.
All that bouncing and correcting is what I’ve been after for years. I got some of it before update 1.49 with the curb hopping, but now it’s even moreso with my set ups with 1.49. Watching drivers back in the days steer those cars were so lively. That’s what I want to experience in Gran Turismo. It’s happening.
PD refined the tuning and they’ve actually programmed parameters for extreme reactions to happen as in the video below. Note the attitude of the V8 Quattro at corner exit.
Now I’m always watching Group A videos. Specifically for the attitudes of the cars. It’s how I set up all my suspensions. To get that bounce over curbs and to see the suspension compressing and expanding as the real Group A race cars do.
I use a DS5, but I still get the same inputs through the controller as what Tsuchiya is experiencing in the video below.
All that bouncing and correcting is what I’ve been after for years. I got some of it before update 1.49 with the curb hopping, but now it’s even moreso with my set ups with 1.49. Watching drivers back in the days steer those cars were so lively. That’s what I want to experience in Gran Turismo. It’s happening.
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It seems all open wheel cars are affected by a lack of force feedback, although there could be others, these are the ones I experienced it on consistently. My favourite super formula is unusable currently which is a shame because I am enjoying everything else with the new physics. I hope they don't nerf or revert the handling because it is spot on IMO.
- 676
- United States
It's been a while since I drove the BAC, but I do remember it being a lot more sedate and unremarkable before too. I was hoping it would have come to life now like some other cars did, but it's still a snooze fest when an open wheeled track-rat should be very reactive, communicative, grippy and come with some consequences. It's way too numb and easy to drive.
The MP4/4 used to have great steering feel that loaded up linearly with speed, under braking and in slow tight corners. Now there's almost nothing there in any situation other than at top speed, and even then it's still too light. Kinda ruined one of the most exciting cars in the game.
The 400R before felt much like other "normal" road cars, but now it's so crazy heavy it is just very unrealistic and ruins the immersion.
There are still many cars that feel great, but the ones that don't are pretty bad, and this doesn't really bode well for the update.
- 1,238
- Canada
- the-1st-hawkeyez
I ran my 2J, torque 10, sensitivity 10, wheel maxed out, FFB filter 3 and dampener off. Didn’t feel too bad but you can not let go of the wheel, so I cranked torque down to 7, sensitivity to 1, wheel maxed out, FFB filter 3, dampener bumped up to 5 or 7. Still, do not let go of the wheel. The only way I can reduce it some is cranking that FFB filter and dampener and turning the torque down more. It felt a lot better though besides oscillation.
Here’s the catch, run the stock Toyota 2000 with those settings, doesn’t even feel like the wheel is on, even during corners, unless you bump a curb just right or the tires suddenly grip then lookout.
Maybe other people don’t notice it but I think they’ve got a few effects cranked up a bit too much. Like 4nm stronger than most of the average FFB effects. Anybody with a wheel that isn’t capable of above 6nm or so, isn’t even going to notice those spikes. I don’t know what the fanatec people are experiencing but imo they just need to dial that stuff back some.
Bring the lighter feeling cars up in strength and the heavier feeling cars down in strength. Let us pick what we like with less of a FFB strength difference between cars. Why do I want to pause the game every time I get in a different car, adjust the torque or strength on my wheel to suit that particular car. This is right up there with screenshotting tunes, they think that suffices. They probably think constantly adjusting wheel settings is perfectly reasonable.
I didn't play the game for more than a week so i can't compare well 1.50 with 1.49,but i feel braking been simplified a lil with ABS be more efficient than 1.49
I don't know if it Is true or not. Braking was one of the things i appreciated more on new physics, and even if It still good to me,i am afraid they go a lil back
I don't know if it Is true or not. Braking was one of the things i appreciated more on new physics, and even if It still good to me,i am afraid they go a lil back
- 172
- United Kingdom
I've finally had a go on 1.50 with VR and the wheel (G29), going through the weekly challenges. I'm unimpressed.
At Spa I used my R32 GT-R. This was my default ride for the Tokyo WTC600. It's on SH tyres and tuned up to 600PP with all engine modifications and is running on standard suspension. It was always a car that moved around on its suspension but this was controllable and could be used to change the car's line or attitude mid corner and it was still easy to be precise. Now it's a wobbly mess. It feels like the reactions to all the control inputs have been amplified in magnitude, but not in duration. So under braking it immediately dives hard and as soon as the brakes are released it sproings back up almost instantly. While cornering throttle or brake manipulation will have the nose darting in or out by a couple of feet instead of a few inches. The steering felt too sensitive, too. It would dart into the corner when the wheel was turned. Spa is a fast, flowing track but I couldn't get into a rhythm. I was always chasing the car.
Next up was the Porsche challenge, which I've done in the past in a widebody 996 GT3. I used the same car now. At first it felt no different, it certainly didn't feel softer or wobbly like the GT-R, but as I started to relearn the track and approach my limits, the car became much less malleable than it used to be and much more brittle. The steering felt too sensitive. It would dart into a corner, suddenly oversteer, and was much harder to catch because it now snaps the other way, much more violently and less progressive than it was.
Final event for comment was the WTC800 which I used a 787B for. It felt fine, and little different to what I was used to.turn in felt good. Slides were progressive and catchable. For the last lap it dried up a lot and then the car started feeling darty again, like the steering is too sensitive... seems to be a theme now.
I've never driven the BAC Mono nor the car I used at Tsukuba before today so I can't comment on changes to those.
To me, 1.48 wasn't perfect but it felt polished, refined, balanced. 1.50 feels like someone's gone to a 7 band graphic equalizer (google it if you're under 30..), pushed the lowest bass and highest treble up to max and left the rest flat. 1.48 gently fed me clues to the car's balance. 1.50 is hosepiping me with it. It's lost its organic subtlety and now feels artificially enhanced. I know, not the popular view, but that's my conclusion so far.
I feel like I need to turn the sensitivity down on all the controls... the brakes, steering, and maybe the throttle. I don't even know if that's possible without just adding deadzones, which I don't want. I've always played with the G29 settings all standard.
I'll have to mess with it and see if I can bring back some progression to my driving experience.
I'll also try the 787b at Sardenga, where I'm used to driving it, and see how it feels there, plus I'll be giving my favourite GT3 car (the Ferrari 456) a go on the TT. Maybe with time things will change, but I didn't need much time to get used to the 1.4x physics that were current when I got the game.
Rallying feels much better now though, even if I think the turn-in response on dirt is now a bit too strong.
Anyway those are my thoughts so far.
At Spa I used my R32 GT-R. This was my default ride for the Tokyo WTC600. It's on SH tyres and tuned up to 600PP with all engine modifications and is running on standard suspension. It was always a car that moved around on its suspension but this was controllable and could be used to change the car's line or attitude mid corner and it was still easy to be precise. Now it's a wobbly mess. It feels like the reactions to all the control inputs have been amplified in magnitude, but not in duration. So under braking it immediately dives hard and as soon as the brakes are released it sproings back up almost instantly. While cornering throttle or brake manipulation will have the nose darting in or out by a couple of feet instead of a few inches. The steering felt too sensitive, too. It would dart into the corner when the wheel was turned. Spa is a fast, flowing track but I couldn't get into a rhythm. I was always chasing the car.
Next up was the Porsche challenge, which I've done in the past in a widebody 996 GT3. I used the same car now. At first it felt no different, it certainly didn't feel softer or wobbly like the GT-R, but as I started to relearn the track and approach my limits, the car became much less malleable than it used to be and much more brittle. The steering felt too sensitive. It would dart into a corner, suddenly oversteer, and was much harder to catch because it now snaps the other way, much more violently and less progressive than it was.
Final event for comment was the WTC800 which I used a 787B for. It felt fine, and little different to what I was used to.turn in felt good. Slides were progressive and catchable. For the last lap it dried up a lot and then the car started feeling darty again, like the steering is too sensitive... seems to be a theme now.
I've never driven the BAC Mono nor the car I used at Tsukuba before today so I can't comment on changes to those.
To me, 1.48 wasn't perfect but it felt polished, refined, balanced. 1.50 feels like someone's gone to a 7 band graphic equalizer (google it if you're under 30..), pushed the lowest bass and highest treble up to max and left the rest flat. 1.48 gently fed me clues to the car's balance. 1.50 is hosepiping me with it. It's lost its organic subtlety and now feels artificially enhanced. I know, not the popular view, but that's my conclusion so far.
I feel like I need to turn the sensitivity down on all the controls... the brakes, steering, and maybe the throttle. I don't even know if that's possible without just adding deadzones, which I don't want. I've always played with the G29 settings all standard.
I'll have to mess with it and see if I can bring back some progression to my driving experience.
I'll also try the 787b at Sardenga, where I'm used to driving it, and see how it feels there, plus I'll be giving my favourite GT3 car (the Ferrari 456) a go on the TT. Maybe with time things will change, but I didn't need much time to get used to the 1.4x physics that were current when I got the game.
Rallying feels much better now though, even if I think the turn-in response on dirt is now a bit too strong.
Anyway those are my thoughts so far.
- 897
- Canada
What does "standard" mean for the G29 settings?
Prior to 1.49 I had Torque at 4 and Sensitivity at 1 and it felt pretty good. With 1.49 I found I needed to turn the torque up a bit and I also found that setting the sensitivity fully to the other end of the scale - 10 - really brought the FFB back to life. So I've now settled on 6 for torque and 10 for sensitivity. Those are the only two settings that make any difference at all for the G29 (aside from axis stuff like setting deadzones of course). I find the FFB on the G29 to now be just fantastic in most of the cars I've tried. Better than prior to 1.49.
Prior to 1.49 I had Torque at 4 and Sensitivity at 1 and it felt pretty good. With 1.49 I found I needed to turn the torque up a bit and I also found that setting the sensitivity fully to the other end of the scale - 10 - really brought the FFB back to life. So I've now settled on 6 for torque and 10 for sensitivity. Those are the only two settings that make any difference at all for the G29 (aside from axis stuff like setting deadzones of course). I find the FFB on the G29 to now be just fantastic in most of the cars I've tried. Better than prior to 1.49.
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