Gran Turismo 7 Physics

[lbpomg95]

It's also worth noting that certain cars still have broken PP-values. If you engine swap the C4 Corvette ZR1 and buy all the upgrades, the PP rating will display a '!' and not allow you to use the car unless you pretty much max the rear downforce. This problem still exists post-1.50, so many engine-swapped cars are still quite limited on how they can be set up.

 

[RedWombat]

It isn't just engine swapped cars. A lot of vintage muscle cars in general have that issue unless you put in as much downforce in the rear as you're able to. So if there are cars that can not have their rear downforce adjusted like the Superbird, you're stuck with a ! rating.

The only means I can find to generate a rating is to mix and match front and rear tires like Racing rear, sport front but on races where you need specific tires this won't help

 

[hawkeyez]

It isn't just engine swapped cars. A lot of vintage muscle cars in general have that issue unless you put in as much downforce in the rear as you're able to. So if there are cars that can not have their rear downforce adjusted like the Superbird, you're stuck with a ! rating.

The only means I can find to generate a rating is to mix and match front and rear tires like Racing rear, sport front but on races where you need specific tires this won't help

It's also worth noting that certain cars still have broken PP-values. If you engine swap the C4 Corvette ZR1 and buy all the upgrades, the PP rating will display a '!' and not allow you to use the car unless you pretty much max the rear downforce. This problem still exists post-1.50, so many engine-swapped cars are still quite limited on how they can be set up.

Regarding the ⚠️ I had a 63 Vette with that issue, all I did was remove sport suspension and suddenly it was available. Put the sport suspension back on, ⚠️ again. Getting real sick and tired of developers ruining their game with their updates. We are the Guinea pigs. There’s a few performance parts on the car, nothing too outrageous. I remember I couldn’t handle the car so I put sport suspension on, now that’s the deciding factor of it glitching out?

If you want to be the best real driving simulator, then make your game to the best of your ability, test it, then sell it. If we don’t like it, try improving from the feedback on your next release. The problem comes in when you update, everything feels different and we’re back to relearning. Updating physics is admitted you got it wrong in the first place. I’m even ok with an update for the better but an update ALWAYS introduces some other thing that’s totally messed up. Like yay, slip angle is better… but not on all cars, some it’s actually worse and what’s this oscillation suddenly on the g pro, where’d the trueforce go? That type of stuff grinds my gears.

 

[GTboyz]

Yeah the PP! bug is quite annoying.

 

[lbpomg95]

Regarding the ⚠️ I had a 63 Vette with that issue, all I did was remove sport suspension and suddenly it was available. Put the sport suspension back on, ⚠️ again. Getting real sick and tired of developers ruining their game with their updates. We are the Guinea pigs. There’s a few performance parts on the car, nothing too outrageous. I remember I couldn’t handle the car so I put sport suspension on, now that’s the deciding factor of it glitching out?

If you want to be the best real driving simulator, then make your game to the best of your ability, test it, then sell it. If we don’t like it, try improving from the feedback on your next release. The problem comes in when you update, everything feels different and we’re back to relearning. Updating physics is admitted you got it wrong in the first place. I’m even ok with an update for the better but an update ALWAYS introduces some other thing that’s totally messed up. Like yay, slip angle is better… but not on all cars, some it’s actually worse and what’s this oscillation suddenly on the g pro, where’d the trueforce go? That type of stuff grinds my gears.

Honestly for all the improvements in the physics (not that I particularly enjoy them), were many people really complaining about the physics the way they were? The current system is a lot more polarising than the pre 1.49 physics, and isn't GT meant to be the pseudo-sim that appeals to the most people?

 

[eran0004]

Honestly for all the improvements in the physics (not that I particularly enjoy them), were many people really complaining about the physics the way they were?

90% of the members taking the poll above wanted more realistic and detailed physics.

 

[lbpomg95]

90% of the members taking the poll above wanted more realistic and detailed physics.

That poll has existed since the game released, has it not? So it also referred to the original physics system which was a complete knife edge, as well as the next system, as well as the pre-1.49 system. And it still exists now, so does it refer to the current system too? Although it's just my opinion, I don't think it's very representative and it doesn't really ask the right question.

 

[Meythia]

And it still exists now, so does it refer to the current system too.

The question "do you want more detailed and realistic physics" is always up to valid no matter how close to "real physics" the game is because of how it is phrased and about its very specific details contained.

If it only was "do you want better physics" I would have stopped before 1.49 because right now I dont like it anymore at all.
Especially the change in controller input filtering does feel worse in my opinion as it seems more restrictive than before.

 

[lbpomg95]

The question "do you want more detailed and realistic physics" is always up to valid no matter how close to "real physics" the game is because of how it is phrased and about its very specific details contained.

If it only was "do you want better physics" I would have stopped before 1.49 because right now I dont like it anymore at all.
Especially the change in controller input filtering does feel worse in my opinion as it seems more restrictive than before.

It would have been interesting to see a poll that simply asked "are you happy with the physics currently?"

 

[Galvston]

Im happy with the more realistic nature of the 1.49. Sad to see the community complains so much

 

[hawkeyez]

Honestly for all the improvements in the physics (not that I particularly enjoy them), were many people really complaining about the physics the way they were? The current system is a lot more polarising than the pre 1.49 physics, and isn't GT meant to be the pseudo-sim that appeals to the most people?

I was happy with the update that fixed loss of front tire traction, the FFB got light, before it would get really heavy which is incorrect. But the slip angle was too narrow. They’ve corrected that but only in some cars. I find Gr.3’s a bit more realistic but most of the cars I drive (my tunes anyway) have adopted that snap oversteer.


There are some realy weird FFB effects going on now too. If I don’t have the wheel dead straight when breaking hard I get this whipping motion in the wheel. I call them ghost trying to play my game for me because that’s what it feels like. So many random wheel yanks.


I’m all for more realism, but they’ve mucked around too much. Maybe it’s just the G Pro wheel. This update probably bugs me more because I spent a long time tuning some trans am cars, Camaro, Challenger, Mustang. They were tricky to drive but not too bad. Now they’re almost impossible to drive. I can still drive them fine but there’s a whole lotta “omg, yikes, wth, holy that was close, aghhh” trying to get around the track. The previous physics update I didn’t really have any tunes most was stock so I didn’t notice much besides the proper tire scrub feel.


When you have a game that has tuning and setups (especially when you have 450 cars!) you should be very careful to try and get your physics on point before you release your game… or do a little more testing prior to releasing and update. This update feels like a step diagonally in the right direction. Some good, some just off, and for FFB effects, some was a step backwards.

 

[Kriptical]

Well.. i think yesterday was a bandaid. Tea leaf theory is they truncated whatever was going on, and set it into the console update cue and will be trying to fix it next time around. This is largely due to driving around yesterday and finding oscillation at speed and in corner, to be reduced somewhat, not gone. I could almost keep it at bay too, with steady even, but light weight, on the wheel. If i took a hand off and put it lower on the wheel, the oscillating would begin and increase. Still say its some out of control rebounding function.

 

[kiseca]

The problem with wanting more realistic physics is that for nearly all of us there is no realistic simulation for your inner ear. The game's responses need to take this into account otherwise you're always reacting unrealistically slowly when reaching the limit of grip. This is one thing that PD have always done really well, to compensate for the lack of inner ear messages with visual and sound cues, and more recently with better steering feedback, and a physics model that lets you react in time.

GT4 felt great to drive for its day, lots of character in the cars and it was possible to adapt to their quirks and drive them effectively. Yet the physics model in GT4 didn't allow one to perform donuts.

For me, the key isn't in the outright precision of a suspension or tyre model emulating what the real thing would be doing, but in the accessibility that the driver has to the car's ability, and the capability to understand what the car is about to do and react in good time, despite not having the very important help of one's sense of balance (and until GT7, also having to do without depth perception).

Grand Prix Legends was hugely praised for having a very advanced and realistic physics model for its day, but the cars were terribly difficult to drive, and when Jackie Stewart tried it out he said it was more difficult to drive than the real thing. There's no point in making the cars more realistic to react if at the same time it makes the overall driving experience less realistic.

The realism has to come from the full package, from the driving experience, not just from the accurately simulated responses of the car's physics model.

On topic, I have only tried 1.5 with the controller so far, and only for grinding. Compared to 1.49, I feel the car now slides a bit earlier under power than in 1.49, but once it lets go it is easier to gather up. And my lap times improved quite a bit. I'm looking forward to giving it a go with a wheel now. I was happy with 1.48 and had a few weird issues with 1.49, like some cars felt more binary, or low resolution, in their responses. At least on controller, it seems that binary sensation may have gone along with the kangaroo hopping. I'm hoping that translates well on the wheel too.

 

[hawkeyez]

Well.. i think yesterday was a bandaid. Tea leaf theory is they truncated whatever was going on, and set it into the console update cue and will be trying to fix it next time around. This is largely due to driving around yesterday and finding oscillation at speed and in corner, to be reduced somewhat, not gone. I could almost keep it at bay too, with steady even, but light weight, on the wheel. If i took a hand off and put it lower on the wheel, the oscillating would begin and increase. Still say it’s some out of control rebounding function.

Yeah the oscillations are annoying. I can get rid of them but then my wheel feels lifeless. Out of control rebounding seems accurate to me. I feel like sweeping corners the suspension or tires are doing something really weird. All through the corner the wheel repeatedly pulls and let’s go, but not if I can induce a slide.

I think they’ve tried to let people know the suspension is compressing by ramping up the force feedback in the wheel, as in the weight of the wheel gets heavier. But it’s like it’s there then not then there then not. It’s so bad with the Logitech G Pro.

I’m with you on the inner ear thing, I’ve said that many times. There has to be a balance or you have to let us know before the fact. To be honest since day one I’ve driven with countersteering on because if I don’t, some cars are gone before you can even react. Countersteering on at least reacts quickly and you get that cue. I can drive without but there’s a lot more incidents for me if I had no idea it was coming around on me it just spun.

I live in Canada, drive on ice, a lot. When your vehicle slides even a tiny little bit you feel it, especially when the vehicle rotates not even an inch. That’s your inner ear at work. Or equilibrium. Whatever it’s called.

 

[sonnyboychris]

I just finished watching the linked video below. PD really needs to reveal tire temps in the August update. Dude was doing quali runs for sport mode and noticed the tires had optimal temps for about 1 lap. Meaning, you'll either need to restart quali or do a cool down lap to get the best pace.

Also, seeing the tire temps skyrocket due to dirty air is pretty darn cool. No pun intended lol.

​

Gran Turismo 7: Driving in Dirty Air and Finding Optimal Tire Temp

 

[eran0004]

That poll has existed since the game released, has it not? So it also referred to the original physics system which was a complete knife edge, as well as the next system, as well as the pre-1.49 system. And it still exists now, so does it refer to the current system too? Although it's just my opinion, I don't think it's very representative and it doesn't really ask the right question.

It’s from before the game released, it clearly shows that a majority of GTPlanet members wanted more detail and realism and I think that’s probably still true today. I didn’t see many being negative to the announced physics change prior to the update, the backlash I see is mainly that it didn’t quite turn out as well (and bug-free) as we were expecting it to.

 

[sonnyboychris]

It’s from before the game released, it clearly shows that a majority of GTPlanet members wanted more detail and realism and I think that’s probably still true today. I didn’t see many being negative to the announced physics change prior to the update, the backlash I see is mainly that it didn’t quite turn out as well (and bug-free) as we were expecting it to.

I agree, there was a level of eager anticipation to the announcement. I'm one of those people who wanted more realism but I also realize there's a level of subjectivity to that lol.

I like the update, I like the direction in which the game is heading (for now lol). I think think the big problem with the update is that it's incomplete (for the reason stated in the post above you) and sadly that's been a consistent problem with this game imo.

 

[GTRedman]

Grand Prix Legends

Wow that reference takes me back, now I feel old. I still have the game manual for it, I don't think I ever completed a lap.

 

[LSFDRX]

I'm one of the people enjoying the update but it's not without its issues for sure.

I kinda forgot to finish the master license so Last night I decided to do just that.

Second to last with the Valkyrie was great. The car had a lot of steering weight and feel. It went well (except for the STUPID trait of the car shutting off sometimes which killed engine-braking and would occasionally send me off track). Almost got to gold before I realized there was an overtake option! Haha.

Then the final is the MP4/4 at Suzuka. One of my favorite cars in the game. Should be great.

Nope. The MP4 is DEAD now. Almost no steering feel or feedback at all. It was so strange to drive. The only weight came at 130R at top speed. The Honda RA272 and the Nissan RCP390 suffer from the same fate as well. Very little to no feel at all.

It makes no sense that cars that had previously had a lot of steering weight and feedback with their unassisted steering and sticky tires have no weight at all now, while road cars like the Valkyrie still have a lot of it.

 

[hawkeyez]

I'm one of the people enjoying the update but it's not without its issues for sure.

I kinda forgot to finish the master license so Last night I decided to do just that.

Second to last with the Valkyrie was great. The car had a lot of steering weight and feel. It went well (except for the STUPID trait of the car shutting off sometimes which killed engine-braking and would occasionally send me off track). Almost got to gold before I realized there was an overtake option! Haha.

Then the final is the MP4/4 at Suzuka. One of my favorite cars in the game. Should be great.

Nope. The MP4 is DEAD now. Almost no steering feel or feedback at all. It was so strange to drive. The only weight came at 130R at top speed. The Honda RA272 and the Nissan RCP390 suffer from the same fate as well. Very little to no feel at all.

It makes no sense that cars that had previously had a lot of steering weight and feedback with their unassisted steering and sticky tires have no weight at all now, while road cars like the Valkyrie still have a lot of it.

The Honda has none until it does. I mildly tuned an old skyline with sports parts, comfort medium tires, it’s super heavy steering? Like what is going on with this update? It honestly feels like they picked a couple cars, tweaked their settings and went there that should do it. Now we’re left wondering if we should mess with our tunes or not. I’m trying not to because I really do think something is screwy with this update.

It’s making me lose interest in playing it because I don’t even know which wheel profile I should pick, I’m left running a lap before I can decide if I should have it on strong, medium or light. Before update, I thought the gap was a little too wide between comfort tires to racing, now it’s extreme but it’s not even between comfort and racing tires, I’ve driven cars with racing tires that are lighter than comfort tires. Something is seriously wonky with this update.

The wheel is there to provide information, it’s called force feedback, feedback being the key word. I have a truck and o have a car, one is 4500lbs and the other is 3200lbs. One isn’t drastically different in steering weight from the other. What game has such huge differences between cars regarding the weight of the wheel? We want informative feedback at a strength with pick. We don’t want, hmm I wonder if this car is going to be ridiculously light steering or am I going to have to completely muscle the wheel through the turns?

 

[Td04]

I didn't try update yet...
I really enjoyed 1.49. i hope they didn't ruined something... didn't they, right? Please tell me they didn't

 

[Galvston]

I didn't try update yet...
I really enjoyed 1.49. i hope they didn't ruined something... didn't they, right? Please tell me they didn't

Its the same

 

[wheelhp]

GT7 does have this, or at least it does for the G29

View attachment 1377513View attachment 1377514View attachment 1377515


If you use motion steering then you can change the steering linearity for turn in and for hard cornering.

It is missing trigger (L2 R2) linearity though, I think that would be a welcome upgrade to be able to modulate throttle and braking better.

This isnt an ffb gain slider.
In assetto theres many sliders like ffb gain and filter strength which in addition to steering linearity and other tweaks changes your wheel feel drastically beyond just deadzones and the simplistic gt7 sensitivity slider

 

[wheelhp]

I run SimHub, my laptop is off to the side, but I have glanced and seen tire temps sky rocket quickly. I’m not sure the exact temp but I think it’s around 110 where the get a bit greasy and then just shoot up from there. I have been able to spin the back tires and have the temps way up. The weird thing is it’s like GT7 just goes ok that’s enough tire spinning in a straight line and drops the temps.

I’m sure we’ve all felt it. Back tires spinning, in the red, managing to keep it straight and then suddenly car sort of bogs down a bit and hooks up. I’ve seen that in SimHub and the temps just kinda of go from 140-150 down to like 80. With my foot still in it. The tires cool after a certain amount of time, then they grip and bog down the car a little. Sometimes they don’t they just cool and grip. Like the tire temps reset.

I’m going to try to remember to do a burnout and see what happens. Because I faintly remember doing donuts and after a bit the car just grabs for a few seconds before starting again. Like they have a time limit on tire temps.

This and "put your car in reverse and traction controll comes on" are both very frustrating assists.

 

[P-Courty]

This isnt an ffb gain slider.
In assetto theres many sliders like ffb gain and filter strength which in addition to steering linearity and other tweaks changes your wheel feel drastically beyond just deadzones and the simplistic gt7 sensitivity slider

There isn't any FFB adjustment but there are the deadzone and linearity adjustments for the pedals.

It is still far behind Assetto and other sims with adjustments.

In all honesty, with my cable being chewed on the G29, I was watching the kitten trying to chew them again 🤦🏻‍♂️ and thought I need to solder them and repair it, but not for GT7... for use on the gaming PC on Assetto and iRacing

 

[WanganDream]

I didn't try update yet...
I really enjoyed 1.49. i hope they didn't ruined something... didn't they, right? Please tell me they didn't

Unfortunately we have discovered a new bug.
After 1.50, raising the ride height on some cars causes a very strong bump on turn-in, making the car completely uncontrollable.



This video shows a bug that has been occurring since version 1.50 with H. Ojala's Evo, an AI that appears in the Clubman Cup+ at Watkins Glen.
His Evo started behaving strangely like this after the 1.50 update, likely because the ride height was higher than stock.

My friend tested it and it seems that the bug is caused only by the ride height, not the spring rate or damper.

 

[wheelhp]

Did an engine swap on the new bimmer. Totally undriftable at high hp. Anyone got a tune or something. Also how do cars respond to the increase body rigidity mod after the update? Cause it seems like a nessecary mod to me on quite a few road cars now.

Wondering if they messed with road car rigidity values across the board.. since tidgney reported that the gt3 porsche felt very similar after changing the setup values back to before the update. Funny that gt3 cars basically untouched in feel apart from setup changes. Which did not go unnoticed.

 

[wheelhp]

Howd yall eeven find this? Discord ?? Where is the real gt community at

Unfortunately we have discovered a new bug.
After 1.50, raising the ride height on some cars causes a very strong bump on turn-in, making the car completely uncontrollable.



This video shows a bug that has been occurring since version 1.50 with H. Ojala's Evo, an AI that appears in the Clubman Cup+ at Watkins Glen.
His Evo started behaving strangely like this after the 1.50 update, likely because the ride height was higher than stock.

My friend tested it and it seems that the bug is caused only by the ride height, not the spring rate or damper.

Just reproduced it on my evo. Seemed to be slightly more violent with a 200kg ballast to the front and 50/50 power split. My inkling is the front suspension geometry is bugged. The reasoning for this is with the steering perfectly straight i couldnt get the car to jump but the second id turn the steering it would jump from the wheel clipping in the ground . The tyre reacts as if it clips through the ground and rebounds violently. Happens at any speed. Slow or fast. Makes me think their mcpherson suspension geometry calculation is incomplete or inaccurate. Which if it is the case the physics bug should also be reproduced on cars with the same front suspension geometry when maxing out the ride height.

Anywho.


Pd sends a patch to fix it and creates another bug of similar variety. Classic calculated PD mistake.

 

[mynameis66]

Did an engine swap on the new bimmer. Totally undriftable at high hp. Anyone got a tune or something. Also how do cars respond to the increase body rigidity mod after the update? Cause it seems like a nesscary mod to me on quite a few road cars now.

Apparently its a skill issue according to some on here.Make of that what you will.Ssome of my cars still skip about no matter how much I tweek them,even with a tune from another user, however I am a crap tuner though.

 

[kiseca]

Unfortunately we have discovered a new bug.
After 1.50, raising the ride height on some cars causes a very strong bump on turn-in, making the car completely uncontrollable.



This video shows a bug that has been occurring since version 1.50 with H. Ojala's Evo, an AI that appears in the Clubman Cup+ at Watkins Glen.
His Evo started behaving strangely like this after the 1.50 update, likely because the ride height was higher than stock.

My friend tested it and it seems that the bug is caused only by the ride height, not the spring rate or damper.

So we've swapped rocket cars for Mater clones. I knew PD wouldn't disappoint 😂