Gran Turismo 7 Physics

[Td04]

As this game is getting seemingly more complicated and sim-like, PD needs to do a better job of explaining what's changing and how it impacts us.

We shouldn't have to rely on Tidgney (who I really enjoy, I'm watching the linked video above) and others who are doing their best but ultimately making educated guesses.

Update: Getting closed to finishing Tidgney's video and it's further confirmation that this game is moving closer to being a simulation of racing. I'm not sure that I agree with his complaints about having to manage tires... That's what you do in a racing game...

I said a few days ago that this game and it's fans seem to be going through a bit of an identity crisis. You have casual fans who want to believe that GT in it's most-recent states was a sim on the same level of ACC and others. And you have fans like myself who wanted it to be closer to ACC (which it's starting to become)...

Previously, GT7 was really kind of the casual-sim/sim-cade, whatever U wanna call it title. But now it's trying to tow the line between sim-cade and sim and doing a mediocre job of both.

I really don't understand all the praising to AC and Acc..they are both overrated.
I really would like to know, what Acc do better, driving physics speaking, in comparision to current state gt7's physics.
Braking? Braking on Acc is a joke, and i am not the only one who think this...a gt3 real pilot (Daniel Morad) says the same in its Acc review.
Tire model, despite the possibility to fix tires pressure, isn't that good... with that "slow motion" slip angle,recovery the car is a pain in the ass.
Suspension model is the worst thing in my opinion. Weight shift seems not existent, at least to me.
I mean...Acc could have all the cool, advanced possibility to setups everything in a car, but at the end of the day i find its driving feeling dull,not comunicative at all..
I know this is one of the most unpopular opinion on the net, but is what i think.
And i think many people took Acc as a benchmark of reality just cause this is the popular opinion and a bit of elitism.
It is more easy to stay with the common opinion "Acc is an hardcore sim, gt is a simcade for kids designed for pad lol".
I am sure a lot of people who like more the driving's physics on gt are scared to say it,cause they will get a *********. (I am not talking about this forum, but about internet in general).

I really hope Gt7 Will never get a Acc like physics. I like a lot the physics after 1.49 and, in my opinion, it is totally different (in a good way) from AC/Acc.
Hope the physics will keep improving in the way it is doing from day1 , without try to emulate Kunos

 

[hawkeyez]

I think people liker the fact that gt7 was (is) approachable while still having enough sim elements to make it enticing. With the game leaning more to the sim aspect this balance is being affected and some people won't like it.

I for one don't want gt7 to become as complicated as ACC where you have to worry about the minutia of everything. I am ok with having to manage tyres (I prefer it over having to manage fuel if I'm honest), but I don't want gt7 to feel like a chore like sometimes ACC does for me.

And just like you said, if I'm being asked to manage tyre temps give the information to do it. They could easily add tyre temps and colours to the tyre hud element and keep it the same size and it would work.

And then there's the tyres drop off rates and lost in performance due to tyre temperature. That can be adjusted. And while they're at it, they could give us more abs settings to assist players that need further assistance and don't want to turn on other more intrusive assists.

All good points. I like that it’s leaning more toward sim than it ever has. It always lacked proper handling and sounds. ACC for me was too hardcore, start your engine, don’t go until the leader goes, somebody nails you and you’re done and I really disliked the lack of cars. It’s pretty much just Gr.3. Bleh.

SimHub shows tire temps for GT7 so I don’t understand why they can’t display that on the HUD.

They’ve messed up the G Pro wheel in this update and hopefully they’ll fix it but other than that and cars tires hitting the fender wells… it’s not that much different. Wider slip angle, already seem to be getting used of it the physics changes and that’s with the extreme FFB range of the G Pro now.

Great wheel, but you can go from feather light FFB to touching a curb and almost breaking your wrists. I’m having a heck of a time finding a way to balance it all. They need to minimize the dynamic range for that wheel some or give us options to dial it in to our taste. Which is something other sims do way way better.

 

[sonnyboychris]

I for one don't want gt7 to become as complicated as ACC where you have to worry about the minutia of everything. I am ok with having to manage tyres (I prefer it over having to manage fuel if I'm honest), but I don't want gt7 to feel like a chore like sometimes ACC does for me.

I totally respect those sentiments and I understand the frustration of people like yourself.

I suggested sometime last week that maybe GT needs to split into two games. Have casual sim mode and a separate mode that accommodates the totality of the sim aspects but that was met with anger by some on this forum, which was completely nonsensical to me.

They can literally accommodate both fanbases at a high level, without resorting to this middle of the road state that they're seemingly on.

I prefer the sim aspect and selfishly want GT to embrace. But I don't want them to ruin the game for those who prefer how it's been and I quite enjoy the casualness sometimes as well.

I really don't understand all the praising to AC

You seem to have your mind made up about ACC and you're entitled to your opinion. I happen to like certain aspects of ACC (as I've experienced it on the PS5) and I'm happy to see GT7 implement some of those traits in the latest update. And judging by your post, you're enjoying the new update as well, so I don't understand how you're not comprehending the ACC comparisons.

Prior to this update GT7 lacked FFB feel (on the dd pro) and a feeling of connection to the road surface, both of those traits are present in ACC on PS5 and have been for years at this point.


Talking about ACC on this site is like the old NFL 2K5 vs Madden 2005 debate. Both games were great in that debate and both GT7 and ACC have their strength and weaknesses, many of which are subjective.

 

[Watzlaw]

PD just should add a low force boost / minimum force slider. simple option and simple solution....

 

[Td04]

I totally respect those sentiments and I understand the frustration of people like yourself.

I suggested sometime last week that maybe GT needs to split into two games. Have casual sim mode and a separate mode that accommodates the totality of the sim aspects but that was met with anger by some on this forum, which was completely nonsensical to me.

They can literally accommodate both fanbases at a high level, without resorting to this middle of the road state that they're seemingly on.

I prefer the sim aspect and selfishly want GT to embrace. But I don't want them to ruin the game for those who prefer how it's been and I quite enjoy the casualness sometimes as well.



You seem to have your mind made up about ACC and you're entitled to your opinion. I happen to like certain aspects of ACC (as I've experienced it on the PS5) and I'm happy to see GT7 implement some of those traits in the latest update. And judging by your post, you're enjoying the new update as well, so I don't understand how you're not comprehending the ACC comparisons.

Prior to this update GT7 lacked FFB feel (on the dd pro) and a feeling of connection to the road surface, both of those traits are present in ACC on PS5 and have been for years at this point.


Talking about ACC on this site is like the old NFL 2K5 vs Madden 2005 debate. Both games were great in that debate and both GT7 and ACC have their strength and weaknesses, many of which are subjective.

I agree about Ffb, cause It was the thing i hate most on gt7 pre 1.49.
And i am glad road surface now can be felt trough the wheel and affect car behaviour too..but these were the only 2 things i liked more on Acc.

But if i have to talking about how cars drive on AC/Acc,i never had a good feeling with those games.
I put them far ahead than gtSport, which i always hated a lot driving physics regard,but with gt7 is different: the game showed potential even in its 1.00 version,when the physics was totally broken for fr/mr/rr cars.
The game kept improving,and AC been surpassed a lot time ago in my opinion.
ACC was still ahead,even if for personal taste i don't like and don't feel on It,till 1.25.. which one was the best at that time could be debatable,but i want give Acc and advantage cause ffb and setups depth.
With 1.49, just talking about driving, i take gt7 all day.

 

[PlanetJanet]

On the debate between whether GT7 should go full sim or remain in the simcade zone, I think this is a bit separate from the physics. Why shouldn't they make the physics and handling model as realistic as they can? I don't think this necessarily means the game needs to be hard to drive or inaccessible, so I'm sure they can cater for controller players, especially if you have driver aids to help the newer ones.

A good physics model does not mean they have to turn the game into a full sim, i.e. a game in which: you have to look after the car (mechanically, tyres, fuel) in every race; you have to press a button to start the engine; you have an incredibly complicated array of settings to adjust on your wheel; all races are split by formula or class; you have safety cars and realistic flag rules across all different formulas/classes; you have to manually engage a pit limiter; you have formation laps where you need to warm up tyres, etc.

 

[Shingo_civic]

You seem to have your mind made up about ACC and you're entitled to your opinion. I happen to like certain aspects of ACC (as I've experienced it on the PS5) and I'm happy to see GT7 implement some of those traits in the latest update. And judging by your post, you're enjoying the new update as well, so I don't understand how you're not comprehending the ACC comparisons.

Prior to this update GT7 lacked FFB feel (on the dd pro) and a feeling of connection to the road surface, both of those traits are present in ACC on PS5 and have been for years at this point.


Talking about ACC on this site is like the old NFL 2K5 vs Madden 2005 debate. Both games were great in that debate and both GT7 and ACC have their strength and weaknesses, many of which are subjective.

Regarding ACC's ffb i tried it recently on ps5 and honestly i agree with Td04 ,to me feels unnatural compared to gt7. I tried to change ffb values but the still car felt like a boat not connected to the asphalt (pls don't kill me for saying this but that's what i experienced with my t300).

 

[CarreraGT]

Regarding ACC's ffb i tried it recently on ps5 and honestly i agree with Td04 ,to me feels unnatural compared to gt7. I tried to change ffb values but the still car felt like a boat not connected to the asphalt (pls don't kill me for saying this but that's what i experienced with my t300).

Interestingly I still prefer the physics and FFB of AC over ACC. I still don't think anyone has done it better after nearly 10 years.

I generally think GT 1.49 is an improvement but it still doesn't come close to AC. No doubt AC Evo will move the game on even further too.

 

[hawkeyez]

On the debate between whether GT7 should go full sim or remain in the simcade zone, I think this is a bit separate from the physics. Why shouldn't they make the physics and handling model as realistic as they can? I don't think this necessarily means the game needs to be hard to drive or inaccessible, so I'm sure they can cater for controller players, especially if you have driver aids to help the newer ones.

A good physics model does not mean they have to turn the game into a full sim, i.e. a game in which: you have to look after the car (mechanically, tyres, fuel) in every race; you have to press a button to start the engine; you have an incredibly complicated array of settings to adjust on your wheel; all races are split by formula or class; you have safety cars and realistic flag rules across all different formulas/classes; you have to manually engage a pit limiter; you have formation laps where you need to warm up tyres, etc.

I’m good with not having to press a button to start and engine or pit limiter.

-Formation lap could be a nice feature.
-More FFB adjustment controls/sliders would be welcome.
-Wouldn’t mind mechanical failure (sometimes, or you’re more prone to something failing depending on how you drive, not just random)
-Flag rules besides yellow, blue and white and checkered would be welcome.

They’ll need to sort out their exaggerated grip to no grip FFB feel first as it’s not realistic at all. Once they fix the issues with the FFB, Trueforce, Suspension physics. I think they should leave it alone from that point on, unless they know 100% they can update physics to be even better without introducing the mess they’ve managed to do so this time.

But I’m not sure there’s much they could do from this point on? Maybe a little more smoke, or wisps of smoke. I’ve noticed AI when they get into it, little puffs of smoke show on hard braking. Great. One thing though, when tires scrub or lockup I don’t think the wheel should go totally light, it should almost vibrate or oscillate a tiny tiny bit with a very light feel to it. Not just dead.

 

[Kriptical]

I’m good with not having to press a button to start and engine or pit limiter.

-Formation lap could be a nice feature.
-More FFB adjustment controls/sliders would be welcome.
-Wouldn’t mind mechanical failure (sometimes, or you’re more prone to something failing depending on how you drive, not just random)
-Flag rules besides yellow, blue and white and checkered would be welcome.

They’ll need to sort out their exaggerated grip to no grip FFB feel first as it’s not realistic at all. Once they fix the issues with the FFB, Trueforce, Suspension physics. I think they should leave it alone from that point on, unless they know 100% they can update physics to be even better without introducing the mess they’ve managed to do so this time.

But I’m not sure there’s much they could do from this point on? Maybe a little more smoke, or wisps of smoke. I’ve noticed AI when they get into it, little puffs of smoke show on hard braking. Great. One thing though, when tires scrub or lockup I don’t think the wheel should go totally light, it should almost vibrate or oscillate a tiny tiny bit with a very light feel to it. Not just dead.

Im sorry about logitech’s issues. However, with good settings, my dd extreme, driving in vr, has evolved into a visceral experience which is as close to actually driving as ive ever experienced. On the way to this, ive tanked the wheel settings a few times. Hunting and pecking, and its felt like trash. You logitech guys had a distinct advantage with great ffb(sans butkicker), over the past year. I’d expect and hope it will return soon. Im guessing that pd was trying to find some sort of parity with how full force and true force would behave under an output signal and missed the mark. At least thats the present working theory.

 

[hawkeyez]

Im sorry about logitech’s issues. However, with good settings, my dd extreme, driving in vr, has evolved into a visceral experience which is as close to actually driving as ive ever experienced. On the way to this, ive tanked the wheel settings a few times. Hunting and pecking, and its felt like trash. You logitech guys had a distinct advantage with great ffb(sans butkicker), over the past year. I’d expect and hope it will return soon. Im guessing that pd was trying to find some sort of parity with how full force and true force would behave under an output signal and missed the mark. At least thats the present working theory.

That’s a good theory. Actually I have no problems with the feel of it besides the things I mentioned. At all other times when it’s not doing its exaggerated thing, it feels good. Trueforce I can live with maxed at 150, but I know a lot would like more.

Mainly the oscillations snd the exaggerated kickbacks when losing grip then gaining it back, happens with kerbs or collisions too. That’s basically it. Sounds like a tiny problem, but it’s not.

Almost forgot, I’ve had to resort to three different wheel profiles at different strengths to help balance the extreme wheel weight between different cars.

It’s a bittersweet update. It’s better, and it’s worse. Better physics, worse FFB. I’m sure they’ll fix it, hard to not get upset, it’s an expensive wheel and it feels like it’s broken. No other sim do you need three different wheel settings so you can safely drive all of the cars in game.

 

[sonnyboychris]

On the debate between whether GT7 should go full sim or remain in the simcade zone, I think this is a bit separate from the physics. Why shouldn't they make the physics and handling model as realistic as they can? I don't think this necessarily means the game needs to be hard to drive or inaccessible, so I'm sure they can cater for controller players, especially if you have driver aids to help the newer ones.

A good physics model does not mean they have to turn the game into a full sim, i.e. a game in which: you have to look after the car (mechanically, tyres, fuel) in every race; you have to press a button to start the engine; you have an incredibly complicated array of settings to adjust on your wheel; all races are split by formula or class; you have safety cars and realistic flag rules across all different formulas/classes; you have to manually engage a pit limiter; you have formation laps where you need to warm up tyres, etc.

I think they're on a slippery slope because they're increasing the sim aspects of the game, which has a knock on effect of increasing the difficulty. That becomes a problem (in my opinion) because GT7 doesn't give you essential information to adjust your strategy to compensate for the new difficulty.

Example: Tidgney pointed out how tire warm up and tire temps are very important now. PD does NOT provide tire temps to players. That's just completely asinine but not unheard of from PD, just ask PSVR2 users.

Especially for longer races, managing tires temps directly correlates to making your tires last longer and keeping them in the prime operating window. Especially if you want to run a 1 stop race...

Regarding ACC's ffb i tried it recently on ps5 and honestly i agree with Td04 ,to me feels unnatural compared to gt7. I tried to change ffb values but the still car felt like a boat not connected to the asphalt (pls don't kill me for saying this but that's what i experienced with my t300).

Bruh, I'm not gonna kill you for saying that LOL. I enjoy the discussion and like I said earlier, so much of this is subjective and comes down to wheel type and setup. I just hate when certain people on this forum act like toddlers and throw tantrums.

 

[Galvston]

I for one, really am hope

I think they're on a slippery slope because they're increasing the sim aspects of the game, which has a knock on effect of increasing the difficulty. That becomes a problem (in my opinion) because GT7 doesn't give you essential information to adjust your strategy to compensate for the new difficulty.

Example: Tidgney pointed out how tire warm up and tire temps are very important now. PD does NOT provide tire temps to players. That's just completely asinine but not unheard of from PD, just ask PSVR2 users.

Especially for longer races, managing tires temps directly correlates to making your tires last longer and keeping them in the prime operating window. Especially if you want to run a 1 stop race...




Bruh, I'm not gonna kill you for saying that LOL. I enjoy the discussion and like I said earlier, so much of this is subjective and comes down to wheel type and setup. I just hate when certain people on this forum act like toddlers and throw tantrums.

Welcome to GTP, I do think Its a language barrier situation though... This site has a lot of different fans from different countries.

GT still really big Worldwide.

 

[Kriptical]

That’s a good theory. Actually I have no problems with the feel of it besides the things I mentioned. At all other times when it’s not doing its exaggerated thing, it feels good. Trueforce I can live with maxed at 150, but I know a lot would like more.

Mainly the oscillations snd the exaggerated kickbacks when losing grip then gaining it back, happens with kerbs or collisions too. That’s basically it. Sounds like a tiny problem, but it’s not.

Almost forgot, I’ve had to resort to three different wheel profiles at different strengths to help balance the extreme wheel weight between different cars.

It’s a bittersweet update. It’s better, and it’s worse. Better physics, worse FFB. I’m sure they’ll fix it, hard to not get upset, it’s an expensive wheel and it feels like it’s broken. No other sim do you need three different wheel settings so you can safely drive all of the cars in game.

I hear ya. Again on the dd ext i was doing the same. Until the tt with the scud. Which calibrated to have similar weight and feel to a real car. Despite what i thought were absurd settings in game. Now road cars feel like cars and race cars kick my but a little, but in a good and plausible way. My settings may be too much for most people…but dang they feel great. I don’t even feel compelled to go rip it up on the back roads anymore. Hopefully you guys will get back there soon!

 

[hawkeyez]

I hear ya. Again on the dd ext i was doing the same. Until the tt with the scud. Which calibrated to have similar weight and feel to a real car. Despite what i thought were absurd settings in game. Now road cars feel like cars and race cars kick my but a little, but in a good and plausible way. My settings may be too much for most people…but dang they feel great. I don’t even feel compelled to go rip it up on the back roads anymore. Hopefully you guys will get back there soon!

I’ve explored lots of settings, and will still continue to try stuff. What’s difficult is I’ll get it damn near perfect with one car. Hop in another and it’s the complete opposite. Might stumble across a car that kind of bridges the gap and I can tweak the wheel to be perfect on that one and live with the rest. But again, it’s the issues mentioned, they fix that, I’m golden.

 

[Batschisane52]

-Formation lap could be a nice feature.

Well on the shorter tracks probably...

But please not on tracks like Sarthe or Nordschleife...

 

[sonnyboychris]

I’m good with not having to press a button to start and engine or pit limiter.

-Formation lap could be a nice feature.
-Wouldn’t mind mechanical failure (sometimes, or you’re more prone to something failing depending on how you drive, not just random)
-Flag rules besides yellow, blue and white and checkered would be welcome.

At the very least, make it an option for custom races.

 

[hawkeyez]

Well on the shorter tracks probably...

But please not on tracks like Sarthe or Nordschleife...

Good point hahah? Yes not mandatory, just an option.

At the very least, make it an option for custom races.

Same thing, definitely make it an option. I find it crazy how most games you can populate your lobby with AI but GT7 has never allowed two or three or five friends to race with some AI.

 

[chengman]

I don't know if it's just me, but it seems like the Chapparal 2J front end is more responsive now. I wonder if it's related to PD making every car have increased front end grip or something

 

[05XR8]

Doing the Tokyo 600 is much smoother and less slippery with SH on my Gr.4 Supra.

 

[Endless-Wilso]

Whatever PD does this needs fixing.
Group C is completely undrivable.

 

[hawkeyez]

Whatever PD does this needs fixing.
Group C is completely undrivable.

Man that’s brutal. I’m starting to think a lot of the people that don’t find faults in this latest update are only driving one type of car or something. I’ve tried a Little of every tire and pp rating car types, and they’re all over the map for me. Can get one car feeling good, then the rest suck. You can’t use just one setting for all cars. I did before the update. I’ve never played a game where the wheel felt to drastically different from car to car. They usually have different characteristic but never this one will rip your arms off and this one you might question if your wheel is even on.

 

[MroczMR]

Isn’t it just wrong FFB settings? I did get this in my T300RS in some cars when I had wrong FFB settings even before the patch.

 

[Endless-Wilso]

Isn’t it just wrong FFB settings? I did get this in my T300RS in some cars when I had wrong FFB settings even before the patch.

Ive tryed adjusting everything.
The only way to get rid of it is turning the ffb to half but then there no feeling in the corners.

 

[P-Courty]

My G29 always did this when I was driving the Tomahawk or the Chaparrel 2X VGT 😅

 

[mynameis66]

Man that’s brutal. I’m starting to think a lot of the people that don’t find faults in this latest update are only driving one type of car or something. I’ve tried a Little of every tire and pp rating car types, and they’re all over the map for me. Can get one car feeling good, then the rest suck. You can’t use just one setting for all cars. I did before the update. I’ve never played a game where the wheel felt to drastically different from car to car. They usually have different characteristic but never this one will rip your arms off and this one you might question if your wheel is even on.

Thia. I would have like to have had a hotfix by now but no news yet,this needs fixung.Some of my cars are om but some hop about. Some users on here are saying the physics are moving nearer to sim physics but im not convinced that would be the way for the game to go personally. Just my thoughts.

 

[Bojador]

I drove 40 minutes at Interlagos with the 2016 gr2 NSX and for me, apart from the change in slip angle, feels the same as before the patch. Braking feels exactly as before.

I also drove a few laps in the MX5 touring car and boy that was tough. The rear just wants to go under braking (BoP SH tyres). The sliding thought is super fun. You can now control the slides on that car which makes it super fun. Give it a go.

I also did 40 minutes at Laguna with the Silvia and again the rear wants to go under braking.

The more I play the more I feel like this behaviour under braking is a bit exaggerated. I don't want PD to ga back to what it was before but this is maybe a bit too difficult on some cars. Idk

 

[mynameis66]

The Civic touring car on Tokyo was giving me a few issues since the update.It would jink left or right slightly, put me in the barrier if close enough but only on the first lap.Is this a cold tyres thing now? The three short clips below show what i mean, it looks like I turn deliberatelt but I assure you thats not the case, this was on the tune I used prior to the update and the car was pretty planted before.
I went back and raised the ride height slightly and raised the natural frequency a little too and this immediately made things more stable.I dont know if its the case for all cars with weird handling because some of my pre-patch builds are still ok, apart from a little weight/hp tinkering to make the PP

 

[Griffith500]

If when the wheels hit the wheel wells, a sound were to be played, I think that would naturally give people the hint that they need to adjust the car's setup.

Likewise simply for bottoming out the suspension travel, as that will result in a sudden increase in spring rate and squirrelly behaviour.

 

[mynameis66]

If when the wheels hit the wheel wells, a sound were to be played, I think that would naturally give people the hint that they need to adjust the car's setup.

Likewise simply for bottoming out the suspension travel, as that will result in a sudden increase in spring rate and squirrelly behaviour.

This is the first car ive really played around with, set up wise, since the update.Im hopeful that some of my other wayward builds can be put right with a little effort.
If this is the new physics model then its good so far, however if some of the ' strange handling traits' are down to a bug it needs sorting sooner rather than later.