Gran Turismo 7 Physics

[P-Courty]

PD should have put those settings in a different category like "Wheel settings" IMO. Or at least clearly state that those only effect wheels. While technically a wheel is still a controller, most gamers will not think like this.

I agree, there should be separate settings for:


Wheel
* which already has pedal and steering adjustments / linearity / calibration


Controller
- button steering
* linearity adjustment

- analogue steering
* linearity adjustment

- motion steering
* linearity is already adjustable from the wheel force feedback settings but should be separate and called "linearity" not force feedback

- trigger throttle and brake
* linearity adjustment

 

[Sir Crashalot]

Well the term "force feedback" is generally sort of specific to wheels. Terms like "haptics" or "vibration" are used when it's related to the controller.

Well yeah, that's how it usually is. But not everyone may know this and even ppl who are into this stuff are sometimes not sure (proof on this forum).

Other games just make this absolutely clear. AC for example:

One tab for controller, one for wheels

Settings for controller

Settings for wheels


Or TC2:

Different tabs for controllers and wheels (and doesn't even allow wheel settings when there's no wheel connected).

 

[StPeterMartyr]

Other than that, why is the braking so ruined? Why are all cars sliding if you don't slow down to a crawling pace before a corner, even with the slightest touch on the brake pedal, no matter how gently I trailbrake, even with a -5 BB, they just lose the rear end and go into some wierd slide, it's so frustrating, now they all behave like the bugged Gr3 MR cars from the game release physics. Shame...

I don't know about "all cars", sure my beloved Cayman GT4 Clubsport '16 now is a pain on corner entry, just as you described perfectly. And I really have no idea what to do in the settings...

 

[GlamFM]

Getting used to the new physics. You definitely have to be more on it at all times.

Casually driving around while listening to a podcast is a thing of the past.

Trail breaking is no longer optional.

Not 100% sure how I feel about it. It's absolutely fun, but for someone like me who also plays ACC the unique more casual flavor of GT was also really fire.

What I can't wrap my head around right now is how TC works. It's both too aggressive and too soft at the same time.

I've experimented with 1 to 3. Even on 1 I still feel it's sometimes too aggressive mid corner and even at 3 I manage to spin in La Source or the final chicane in Spa.

 

[Kriptical]

General psa. Fanatec(dd ext here) If you sat down and the ffb feels weak…turn up the in game ffb. Went from 5->8 since update. Thing is a higher NDP, say north of 35ish deadens the more subtle sensations of grip and a bit of wheel directionality. Dropping mine from 47 to 23 gave the car good weight and small detail feel(on a 330mm wheel).

Ive done about 1k miles over the past two days. Haven’t felt any clipping at the higher in game ffb. Thought i did the first day, but it was high ndp stepping on things.

Regarding over/understeer. Pay attention to weigh transfer in the car. It matters as much as it should now. This is a big departure from before where gt7 practically rewarded you for chucking it into a corner and scrubbing the tires, without settling the car first.

All in all, still lots to unpack but big thumbs up here so far.

Ps: i haven’t discovered any clipping yet. Sure some settings reveal, others obfuscate, and more than likely some things like the in game torque ffb value likely needs increasing, but the info is there. There is this fear and repetition of the term clipping, but it seems thats been cleaned up and the signal coming from pd isn’t busting the wheels anymore. Its just a matter of finding working settings now.

 

[PirovacBoy]

OK so first things first.
The Physics feel phenomenal.
The Amount of detail and precision in terms of the actual driving experience is outstanding.
I don't even know exactly where to start tbh.
The whole Driving Model is extremely well simulated.
Gran Turismo has always been an unique Driving Simulator but this most recent Update has completely changed a few things which imo have lifted the Driving experience to a whole new level.
The most obvious changes are the tires.
Never ever before has it been this nuanced.
The sheer amount of feedback which is now been implemented combined with the completely remodeling of the suspension finally provides an authentic driving experience.
Driving the cars by simply feeling them is now finally on a level which hasn't been there before.
Everything feels very natural and fluid.
The tires are an extremely big game changer now.
The grip levels are very pronounced and very detailed.
You can actually feel the tires squishing and deforming and flexing. They are really working underneath you.
It's incredible.
Especially the rear axle slip angle is finally on a plausible level too.
No more guessing.
And the suspension absorbing all those weight shifts and road bumps is just fantastic.
The Road Surface Details are also highly improved.
Curbs finally have an impact.
The Asphalt road texture feels very real.

So yeah, for me this is a very very good Update.
Never ever before have I felt this close to reality in my Sim Rig.
Great Job PD.
Applause 💪

 

[Astro_BS-AS]

I have a CSL with the default wheel and I really like the update. It's quite a cool update on the feeling of the FFB. Subtle, but noticeable, and with the physics it's the same. Now you have to drive the cars better...

Also, on the wheel itself....The auto setting now it's way better than before. I have different settings as well for different types of cars but now the auto is viable for ppl who don't want to change settings on the base.

One important thing ... Are ppl with FFB problems connecting the base with an extender or directly to the ps5 ? When I bought the wheel I've been using an extender and there was no FFB at all. It worked well with a G923 but not with the CSL. Once I connected it directly it was night and day compared to the Logi...

Maybe of you happen to have that problem try connecting the base directly and also post the settings in game just to check.

 

[P-Courty]

I have posted many times about the force feedback settings affecting the turning on motion steering but people using the sticks say that it doesn't affect them though.

I wonder if these settings now affect the sticks aswel 🤔 would be interested to find out if it does.

As @Sir Crashalot said following my post, this doesn't seem to affect analogue steering still so it seems like the sticks are at a disadvantage now 😔

But good news for me and @Barareklam, the force feedback settings still affect motion steering 😁

I have only driven the Ferrari in this weeks TT for 9 laps, the first lap felt strange.

The second lap I was getting more used to it but turn in certainly seems to have a fair bit of understeer and then getting controlled oversteer when exiting the corner (much better slip angle now).

On my third lap I changed the turn in force feedback to 6 (force feedback sensitivity) and hard cornering force feedback to 8 (force feedback max torque), and the Ferrari came alive 😁

Also on the controller I'm still getting good vibration from any road surface changes, like tarmac lines and little bumps, which people on wheels seem to have lost.

I haven't driven anything else yet but, from that one experience alone, I am loving the new physics on motion steering.

 

[Vule]

I don't know about "all cars", sure my beloved Cayman GT4 Clubsport '16 now is a pain on corner entry, just as you described perfectly. And I really have no idea what to do in the settings...

Please try one Gr B car on RH (for example on the new Eiger event), if you even think about touching the brake pedal with even 1 degree of steering angle, you will spin like you pulled the handbrake like a madman.

I mean, those cars on those tires were problematic with sliding even before the update, but now with this new "improved" physics, it's just impossible.

 

[ynot]

Please try one Gr B car on RH (for example on the new Eiger event), if you even think about touching the brake pedal with even 1 degree of steering angle, you will spin like you pulled the handbrake like a madman.

I mean, those cars on those tires were problematic with sliding even before the update, but now with this new "improved" physics, it's just impossible.


View attachment 1376080

I agree. I don't normally try Sport Mode stuff but I did this one and its terrible. I also noticed that the A. I. Cars never have this problem. Just points out that things are not equal.

 

[Vule]

And also please try the A-10 licence (normal) with the Supra on Autopolis and tell me how is the experience on turn 1.

It is literally like only the rear brakes are working. And that's the thing with most cars that I tried so far after this "amazing" update.

 

[Raan03]

really, I have the t300 as well and I do not feel any curbs when I drive over them, for me the FFB os totally broken. The FFB is completly off in some corners of while breaking.

I am totally frustrated and lost the fun completley... But it is interesting, that you feel so different...

what are your settings? I also have a T300 and at first it was horrible... Until I went into the settings of GT and recalibrated all pedals; then I put everything on 10 and since then I love the handling...

 

[MicVic10]

These new physics are the best thing that has happened to GT7, and possibly the best thing ever since the invention of sliced bread.

I drove a good thousand km between yesterday and today. I did both sets of weekly challenges, a whole bunch of races that I didn't bother with before (went from 85% to 95%, Sunday Cups, Clubman Cups, WTC900, so a good bunch of everything) and barely golded Eiger TT today (1:14:4xx). Also golded Eiger Circuit Experience first try.

I use motion steering on a DualSense PS5 controller. I was usually top 2-2.5% on time trials. So an average driver. Maybe slightly above average on a good day.

Everything feels much, much better. Cars have actual weight that shifts around, and you have to be mindful of that. The suspension now actually absorbs kerbs and bumps. Trail braking is essential for rotation. The stupid fake gear dependent understeer is gone and is now replaced by actual understeer (when you turn the wheel too much or when you stomp on the throttle).

Dirt physics are exquisite. You can now turn the car without having to stay in a powerslide all the time. There's a weird delay between turning the controller and the car actually turning though. I guess they're trying to simulate the tyres digging into the dirt and biting underneath or something. It's a feeling you can experience in real life, to a slightly lesser degree but it is there.

Braking is phenomenal. Try turning all "assists" on your real life car and smashing the brake pedal while going at 200 km/h. I can guarantee you will not brake in a straight line. Even with all "assists" on, go watch some Autobahn emergency braking videos on YT. Every single one of them will have the car drift in some direction, with the driver having to do wheel adjustments to keep it straight.
I'm guessing people are crying because the FFB implementation is crap on wheels and you don't have the required finesse with the left stick to do those micro adjustments. I'm having 0 issues with motion steering, I can always keep it straight.

Grass and gravel have also significantly changed, I'm surprised no one mentioned this. Grass is more slippery, touch it and you're pretty much gone. If you go fully on the grass and step on the throttle you'll pretty much dig into the underneath wet soil and spin after a while, not suddenly. Incredibly realistic.
Gravel is more forgiving to light cars as it should be.

Throttle modulation seems to be more necessary now. You can no longer just go 90% on the throttle and you're guaranteed grip, thank goodness. You have to relate it to the steering angle. As you open up the wheel, you step on the gas. The same goes for braking. As you release the pedal, you increase the steering wheel. Almost like there's an actual circle of grip now, eh? How weird!

Thank goodness those stupid universal tunes are also gone now. No longer is a tune universally faster, because each car is now so much more nuanced a single tune doesn't fit everyone anymore.

TLDR: Easier to drive casually, harder to drive fast. Actual real life mechanics are being applied (weight transfer, suspension geometry, tyre slippage, circle of grip). Much closer to ACC and closer to being an actual sim.

 

[wheelhp]

I find all this so fascinating. On the same page you see one person claiming less understeer and the next claiming more understeer. It can't be both! Maybe we should give it some time (and a few bug fixes lol) before coming to such firm conclusions? Clearly some adaption is required, you cannot simply drive exactly the same as before.

Well yes. Theres lots of different cars tunes and tire compounds. When x person says its worse.. Im wondering their sim racing experience then what tyres theyre running and what assits, tune and car but you often dont get this information so take it with a grain of salt. I trust PD know exactly what theyre doing and plan for the long haul. As withevery GT game theyve released the game only gets better via updates. GT5 also started off bad then got better.

I find it interesting that with this update to tire physics theyve gone ahead and labelled them michelins with new photos in tuning menus. One could speculate that they were waiting to get michelins official sponsorship but couldnt till now. Therefore couldnt implement this more accurate tyre model and physics till now. Just makes me think previous tyre model was just a placeholder, temporary, which would explain the tire model being disappointing for so long. Why update or polish something thats essentially a placeholder till they secure the sponsorship?. I mean this update is huge in terms of changes to driving feel alone. Cars even look like they dance correctly on the ground now whereas before the suspension did look less fluid, looked more restricted, visually. But now its a joy to observe how the suspension of roadcars reacts to the environment.

If anyone remembers gt6 they also had a tire sponsor in that game. So this " michelin tire update" shouldnt be so surprising to me but it is. Tires are way more interesting now.

 

[Vule]

When x person says its worse.. Im wondering their sim racing experience

And when Y person says it's better, you don't wonder the same thing?

I trust PD know exactly what theyre doing

Someone from PD HQ probably died of laughter after reading this...

 

[PlanetJanet]

And also please try the A-10 licence (normal) with the Supra on Autopolis and tell me how is the experience on turn 1.

It is literally like only the rear brakes are working. And that's the thing with most cars that I tried so far after this "amazing" update.

Ok, what's the issue with A-10? I'm genuinely confused haha. I just did it a few times and everything felt fine, stable on the brakes and a nice car to control. I recorded it just because I was so curious. What's different for you?

 

[PirovacBoy]

These new physics are the best thing that has happened to GT7, and possibly the best thing ever since the invention of sliced bread.

I drove a good thousand km between yesterday and today. I did both sets of weekly challenges, a whole bunch of races that I didn't bother with before (went from 85% to 95%, Sunday Cups, Clubman Cups, WTC900, so a good bunch of everything) and barely golded Eiger TT today (1:14:4xx). Also golded Eiger Circuit Experience first try.

I use motion steering on a DualSense PS5 controller. I was usually top 2-2.5% on time trials. So an average driver. Maybe slightly above average on a good day.

Everything feels much, much better. Cars have actual weight that shifts around, and you have to be mindful of that. The suspension now actually absorbs kerbs and bumps. Trail braking is essential for rotation. The stupid fake gear dependent understeer is gone and is now replaced by actual understeer (when you turn the wheel too much or when you stomp on the throttle).

Dirt physics are exquisite. You can now turn the car without having to stay in a powerslide all the time. There's a weird delay between turning the controller and the car actually turning though. I guess they're trying to simulate the tyres digging into the dirt and biting underneath or something. It's a feeling you can experience in real life, to a slightly lesser degree but it is there.

Braking is phenomenal. Try turning all "assists" on your real life car and smashing the brake pedal while going at 200 km/h. I can guarantee you will not brake in a straight line. Even with all "assists" on, go watch some Autobahn emergency braking videos on YT. Every single one of them will have the car drift in some direction, with the driver having to do wheel adjustments to keep it straight.
I'm guessing people are crying because the FFB implementation is crap on wheels and you don't have the required finesse with the left stick to do those micro adjustments. I'm having 0 issues with motion steering, I can always keep it straight.

Grass and gravel have also significantly changed, I'm surprised no one mentioned this. Grass is more slippery, touch it and you're pretty much gone. If you go fully on the grass and step on the throttle you'll pretty much dig into the underneath wet soil and spin after a while, not suddenly. Incredibly realistic.
Gravel is more forgiving to light cars as it should be.

Throttle modulation seems to be more necessary now. You can no longer just go 90% on the throttle and you're guaranteed grip, thank goodness. You have to relate it to the steering angle. As you open up the wheel, you step on the gas. The same goes for braking. As you release the pedal, you increase the steering wheel. Almost like there's an actual circle of grip now, eh? How weird!

Thank goodness those stupid universal tunes are also gone now. No longer is a tune universally faster, because each car is now so much more nuanced a single tune doesn't fit everyone anymore.

TLDR: Easier to drive casually, harder to drive fast. Actual real life mechanics are being applied (weight transfer, suspension geometry, tyre slippage, circle of grip). Much closer to ACC and closer to being an actual sim.

Especially the Tire Model is over the top.
I think it has got to do with Michelin as they are of now in a Partnership with PD.
But yes I agree with all you said.

 

[Vule]

Ok, what's the issue with A-10? I'm genuinely confused haha. I just did it a few times and everything felt fine, stable on the brakes and a nice car to control. I recorded it just because I was so curious. What's different for you?

Can't see your inputs from your video because you are in VR, I'm curious how are you applying the brakes to the first corner, the way you enter the turn looks almost like you are using all possible assists (I'm not saying you are of course, just looks that way ), for me it's impossible to not lose the rear on the apex, no matter how gently I brake and how slow I am.

 

[Nebuc72]

Can't see your inputs from your video because you are in VR, I'm curious how are you applying the brakes to the first corner, the way you enter the turn looks almost like you are using all possible assists (I'm not saying you are of course, just looks that way ), for me it's impossible to not lose the rear on the apex, no matter how gently I brake and how slow I am.

Going to have to parrot that I don't see what's wrong in the test. Here's my footage for another comparison. Non VR and ABS off too.

 

[PlanetJanet]

Can't see your inputs from your video because you are in VR, I'm curious how are you applying the brakes to the first corner, the way you enter the turn looks almost like you are using all possible assists (I'm not saying you are of course, just looks that way ), for me it's impossible to not lose the rear on the apex, no matter how gently I brake and how slow I am.

ABS weak, that's it.

Edit: did it again and saved replay this time, not a great run but no dramas. Strange!

 

[wheelhp]

These new physics are the best thing that has happened to GT7, and possibly the best thing ever since the invention of sliced bread.

I drove a good thousand km between yesterday and today. I did both sets of weekly challenges, a whole bunch of races that I didn't bother with before (went from 85% to 95%, Sunday Cups, Clubman Cups, WTC900, so a good bunch of everything) and barely golded Eiger TT today (1:14:4xx). Also golded Eiger Circuit Experience first try.

I use motion steering on a DualSense PS5 controller. I was usually top 2-2.5% on time trials. So an average driver. Maybe slightly above average on a good day.

Everything feels much, much better. Cars have actual weight that shifts around, and you have to be mindful of that. The suspension now actually absorbs kerbs and bumps. Trail braking is essential for rotation. The stupid fake gear dependent understeer is gone and is now replaced by actual understeer (when you turn the wheel too much or when you stomp on the throttle).

Dirt physics are exquisite. You can now turn the car without having to stay in a powerslide all the time. There's a weird delay between turning the controller and the car actually turning though. I guess they're trying to simulate the tyres digging into the dirt and biting underneath or something. It's a feeling you can experience in real life, to a slightly lesser degree but it is there.

Braking is phenomenal. Try turning all "assists" on your real life car and smashing the brake pedal while going at 200 km/h. I can guarantee you will not brake in a straight line. Even with all "assists" on, go watch some Autobahn emergency braking videos on YT. Every single one of them will have the car drift in some direction, with the driver having to do wheel adjustments to keep it straight.
I'm guessing people are crying because the FFB implementation is crap on wheels and you don't have the required finesse with the left stick to do those micro adjustments. I'm having 0 issues with motion steering, I can always keep it straight.

Grass and gravel have also significantly changed, I'm surprised no one mentioned this. Grass is more slippery, touch it and you're pretty much gone. If you go fully on the grass and step on the throttle you'll pretty much dig into the underneath wet soil and spin after a while, not suddenly. Incredibly realistic.
Gravel is more forgiving to light cars as it should be.

Throttle modulation seems to be more necessary now. You can no longer just go 90% on the throttle and you're guaranteed grip, thank goodness. You have to relate it to the steering angle. As you open up the wheel, you step on the gas. The same goes for braking. As you release the pedal, you increase the steering wheel. Almost like there's an actual circle of grip now, eh? How weird!

Thank goodness those stupid universal tunes are also gone now. No longer is a tune universally faster, because each car is now so much more nuanced a single tune doesn't fit everyone anymore.

TLDR: Easier to drive casually, harder to drive fast. Actual real life mechanics are being applied (weight transfer, suspension geometry, tyre slippage, circle of grip). Much closer to ACC and closer to being an actual sim.

I think there was only one other big update on this level, where the physics had such a big improvement in key areas. Just a little more fiddling on their end and esp with certain cars and the driving will be pretty sweet by the time the next game comes out.

The difference is crazy. Comparing it to before this update.. Its almost like they had to jerry rig parts of the physics calculations uptil now. Because now the tire model just feels more correct in all areas, more of an evolution than just an update. If they could make the tire model this good. Why the long wait between updates? Why not release the game with this accuracy? We'll never know but its just the PD way since they got on the PS4

Also I am waiting for the smoke to come back. The depth and variance to the smoke effects seen in early GT7 gameplay were just sublime even compared to now.

 

[Td04]

And also please try the A-10 licence (normal) with the Supra on Autopolis and tell me how is the experience on turn 1.

It is literally like only the rear brakes are working. And that's the thing with most cars that I tried so far after this "amazing" update.

I really don't understand why you have this experience..i just tryed the supra on a-10, and stock supra was one of the Cars i drived most, and i find it amazing to drive. A lot improved in comparision than pre 1.49

 

[Vule]

ABS weak, that's it.

Edit: did it again and saved replay this time, not a great run but no dramas. Strange!

I really don't understand this, looking at your braking force, and your wheel inputs, this is like from another game?

I recorded couple of attempts now just to show the issue, look at the braking points, trailbraking, wheel inputs, and the car behaviour and compare it to your video... WTF? And yes, I've tried ABS default, ABS weak, ABS off, all with the same results more or less.



I mean, for the most part I'm not lacking the basic driving skill, going through licences just to get used to the physics, I got maybe 5 or 6 top 10 times, some even top 5, top 3, but struggling to understand this still.

But maybe I need to reprogram myself for this new update, it's the complete opposite of what I'm used to, and this is not the only racing game I play, I've never experienced this kind of car behaviour while gently trailbraking into the corner. And like I said, it's not just the Supra, it's many cars, some more, some less.

 

[Nebuc72]

I really don't understand this, looking at your braking force, and your wheel inputs, this is like from another game?

I recorded couple of attempts now just to show the issue, look at the braking points, trailbraking, wheel inputs, and the car behaviour and compare it to your video... WTF? And yes, I've tried ABS default, ABS weak, ABS off, all with the same results more or less.



I mean, for the most part I'm not lacking the basic driving skill, going through licences just to get used to the physics, I got maybe 5 or 6 top 10 times, some even top 5, top 3, but struggling to understand this still.

View attachment 1376151

But maybe I need to reprogram myself for this new update, it's the complete opposite of what I'm used to, and this is not the only racing game I play, I've never experienced this kind of car behaviour while gently trailbraking into the corner. And like I said, it's not just the Supra, it's many cars, some more, some less.

I think comparing the two shows it well. PlanetJanet is holding the brake through the corner, and releases it at the start of the kerbing on the right when the car is settled.

You are braking hard into the corner, and releasing the brake early, which is throwing the weight back to the rear and bringing it around in the direction you're steering.

Look at the point where you both begin releasing the brake from full pressure.

In mine, though I release the brake earlier, I'm using less pressure to minimise the weight transfer and keeping the inputs straighter.

In short, yo ass is coming in too fast. You drop quite sharply from 100% brake pressure to around 30%, I think if you trailed that transition to dropping from 100 to 60 to 30 etc. then you'd bleed the momentum off gradually and won't have an issue with the rear trying to say hello to the front.

 

[bduddy]

And also please try the A-10 licence (normal) with the Supra on Autopolis and tell me how is the experience on turn 1.

It is literally like only the rear brakes are working. And that's the thing with most cars that I tried so far after this "amazing" update.

A-10 feels great. You have to actually drive with care like a real car instead of just chucking it in to the corner. I got a 27.8 my first try.

Overall, I don't love the way the Gr.3 cars drive but that's probably just because it exposes all the flaws in my driving style. I do agree with those that say it's like ACC, and while I do say ACC is flawed, if I'm being honest most of the reason I don't like it is the same as the above, it punishes every bad trail-brake, early throttle, and poor line I take way, way more.

 

[Vule]

I think comparing the two shows it well. PlanetJanet is holding the brake through the corner, and releases it at the start of the kerbing on the right when the car is settled.

You are braking hard into the corner, and releasing the brake early, which is throwing the weight back to the rear and bringing it around in the direction you're steering.

Look at the point where you both begin releasing the brake from full pressure.

Very interesting and very good points, too late now to test again but I must try tomorrow.

Looking at your replay and the replay from @PlanetJanet , two completely different approaches to the first corner, but neither of you got the ass to wash out like this. And especially the VR replay, holding the full brake for so long, while turning, I didn't even try something like that, I just didn't drive in that way ever, programmed myself to massively trailbrake all the time with the previous versions of the game, but I guess it's time to do a brain factory reset.

 

[trar]

Dunno why I didn't think of it myself, but I feel like I should go through the first two or three license sets again to get a handle on the new physics. As a more casual player, it's thrown me for a loop more than once this week.

 

[PlanetJanet]

Very interesting and very good points, too late now to test again but I must try tomorrow.

Looking at your replay and the replay from @PlanetJanet , two completely different approaches to the first corner, but neither of you got the ass to wash out like this. And especially the VR replay, holding the full brake for so long, while turning, I didn't even try something like that, I just didn't drive in that way ever, programmed myself to massively trailbrake all the time with the previous versions of the game, but I guess it's time to do a brain factory reset.

Well, I get by and can be relatively fast but as I've said a few times on here, I don't really know what I'm doing and I have no idea how to trail brake properly, I just push pedals around and hope it works lol. Not sure you need a total reset given you have a top 10 time

 

[GTboyz]

In other parts, I tried the special weekly challenges event (Gallardo One Make) and the final event at Laguna Seca.

There were times where I started losing control of the cars and I was fighting hard weaving left and right. It was scary and I don't remember having to do that pre update.

Is there anyway I can improve on recovering from that kind of moment?

But overall, I'm liking this update. Nurburgring is now scarier to tackle.

I use DS5.

 

[Endless-Wilso]

Anyone tryed out group C le mans cars?
They're almost undriveable.
The high speed steering shake is back and in the R92 and Sauber its extremely violent.
And they all seem to have alot of lift off oversteer.
The 962 was always pretty glued but now its so easy to spin it in the 1st corner at Le Sarthe.