- 630
- Austria
Gran Turismo 7 Physics
- Thread starter Shingo_civic
- 6,216 comments
- 507,225 views
- 494
- Northern Ireland
Its all about weight balance now and correctly so.
All cars now need to have weight on part of car that needs grip, ie, if your at corner turn in you want weight of car shifted forward for initial part of turning, but not so much that you lose grip on rear of car.
Same thing on corner exit, you want to gradually shift rate to rear of car, in rwd, for exit grip, but not so much and so fast that you get exit understeer.
This Above is the granularity that GT has been missing but has finally gotten.
The game now asks for a more gradual and gentle shift of weight around the axis of the car as opposed to the previous binary approach of the past.
I’m probably not explaining it well but if your having problems with new physics, please try to go slower first and get feel for what I’m describing and gradually build your pace back up.
Not only will game be less frustrating for you, but it will come alive for you in a way you never felt before and you’ll finally feel the sheer driving enjoyment that all the sim nerds have been waxing about for years!
All cars now need to have weight on part of car that needs grip, ie, if your at corner turn in you want weight of car shifted forward for initial part of turning, but not so much that you lose grip on rear of car.
Same thing on corner exit, you want to gradually shift rate to rear of car, in rwd, for exit grip, but not so much and so fast that you get exit understeer.
This Above is the granularity that GT has been missing but has finally gotten.
The game now asks for a more gradual and gentle shift of weight around the axis of the car as opposed to the previous binary approach of the past.
I’m probably not explaining it well but if your having problems with new physics, please try to go slower first and get feel for what I’m describing and gradually build your pace back up.
Not only will game be less frustrating for you, but it will come alive for you in a way you never felt before and you’ll finally feel the sheer driving enjoyment that all the sim nerds have been waxing about for years!
- 511
- United States
Post update, I'd argue that the game does feel more realistic with my wheel.
That aside, PD's effort/aim is to make the iteratively better/more realistic. There hasn't been an update (correct me if i'm wrong) in the past where controller users complained this vehemently about the physics changes.
- 683
- Austria
New physics need a little time to adjust...
One of the first cars i tried out with the new physics was a fully tuned up '67 Alfa Giulia...my very first impression: undrivable!
After some minor changes in the suspension settings and some more laps: perfect...perhaps a little bit more difficult to handle(it needs more precision for breaking and especially when steering in) but it is a better and more rewarding driving experience
Had similiar experience with a swapped GT-R R33, a liitle bit quirky and unstable at first, but once you get used to it, the new physics are better...
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- 1,330
- Canada
- the-1st-hawkeyez
Let me know what cars in game have power steering and which ones don’t. I’ve driven cars with power steering and without. And there’s a big difference. Never noticed anything like that in GT7 myself. But I will say the car without was Harding to turn the wheel at slow speeds and you felt more of the road through the steering wheel. I’ll use that analogy to express how the G Pro feels to me now. A car with power steering, can’t feel the road. The odd part is if you get hit, hit a curb or load up the suspension during a sweeping corner the wheel gets heavy but it’s a bit of a choppy feel.
I think maybe it depends on the wheel. Feels like they unlocked the G Pro strength but neutered the fidelity of the FFB. I’m all for realism, but it’s also a game and we need some information coming back to us through the wheel whether that’s realistic or not because we don’t all have g force simulators. We can’t utilize our equilibrium sitting in a seat in our house haha
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- 511
- United States
- 1,330
- Canada
- the-1st-hawkeyez
I think that’s accurate. Maybe that’s why most other sims give you an array of effects to tweak because they know they can’t please everyone with just one setting? Somebody about a year ago had mentioned that with trueforce. Why not let us dial up the curb effect or dial down curb effect? Good point.
I did A LOT of racing yesterday and I was trying really hard to just get used of how it felt, not really paying attention to lap times or anything, just driving. If I had to guess, I think they have a wider dynamic range except all the little stuff is now further away in the lower range of strength and the big effects are now in the stronger ranger such as collisions and curbs and such.
Like a song mixed with a high dynamic range but you’re having to listen to it in a car with a lot of road noise and you can’t hear the verses aka quieter parts but then the chorus hits and almost blows your ear drums off.
- 511
- United States
Why?
I think it'd become the equivalent of controller vs mouse & keyboard situation in FPS games...
If PD really allowed wheeled users to tune their wheels properly, it'd make it harder for controller users to compete. If we could really tune the road feel and curb feel, it'd be an advantage.
Is it possible that PD is neutering the wheeled experience to level the playing field? Maybe. It's either that or they're incompetent. Both things can be true to some varying degrees.
- 494
- Northern Ireland
I’m wondering if the people unhappy with their wheels have been using unrealistically high levels of torque and are now experience clipping?
I’ve about the most basic wheel, g29, and running 3 torque, 10 sensitivity, I’m feeling the best detail I’ve ever had in a gt game!
I’ve about the most basic wheel, g29, and running 3 torque, 10 sensitivity, I’m feeling the best detail I’ve ever had in a gt game!
- 1,330
- Canada
- the-1st-hawkeyez
Yeah well as for keyboard mouse vs controller on FPS is up for debate. I’d rather snipe with keyboard and mouse but the rest I’d prefer controller.
Project Cars seemed to have the opposite effect, controller users could still be tough to beat yet they had all kinds of parameters you could adjust. The frustrating part is, yeah the cars had a narrow slip angle, fine make it a little easier to catch those kick outs but in the way of force feedback don’t rewrite the entire textbook. For me, there was nothing wrong with the G Pro’s FFB effects besides needing to have it maxed out in GT7 and still only getting 7nm of PEAK torque. Average was around 4nm. The wheel is 11nm. Just turn it up, the effects were fine. Some complained about curbs feeling like a skateboard on rippled pavement but the rest was good.
- 511
- United States
- 1,330
- Canada
- the-1st-hawkeyez
Well in my case, I actually have to turn it down from 10 to 7 because it’s too much. But in doing so it feels like I’ve lost a lot of informative information. I tried going to 8 but there’s this massive weight between 7 and 8 now. The only thing I haven’t tried is maxing at 10 and then turning the strength down on the wheel itself but LogiRich doesn’t recommended that. He says leave it at 11nm. Adjust the intake torque and sensitivity.
That’s good the G29 and G923 got better. I’ve heard they have. I didn’t mind my G923 but it was more like a controller vibration, max torque was maybe 2nm? Any higher before and it’d clip.
The G Pro is an 11nm direct drive wheel, it shouldn’t be clipping. In game torque at 10 now, you have to muscle it. No thanks. But down to 7 and it’s like nothing is there. Up to 8 and it feels better but if an AI hits you bye bye wrists.
They’ve royally messed something up.
- 855
- United States
The race cars are definitely improved and feel much more responsive than previously, took the BMW F1 GTR, GT-ONE and CLK-LM to Sardegna and they all felt looser but more stable than before which is exactly what I wanted because I felt the cars especially the CLK-LM felt abit too stiff for my liking. Also took a Gallardo with GT3 specs to Sardegna and even though I didn't finish the race in it due to the fuel usage being too bad and the car being far too slow on 4-6 it seemed to have a very reactive suspension with the car swaying left to right with each turn which I thought looked pretty cool. 
- 796
- Serbia
- SR_Vule
Second day of testing, completed the weekly challenges with various cars. Rallying is finally acceptable, you can actually turn the car, and you don't have to pray when you make a jump. On the other hand, the plastic fencing still made out of vibranium is a different topic...
Other than that, why is the braking so ruined? Why are all cars sliding if you don't slow down to a crawling pace before a corner, even with the slightest touch on the brake pedal, no matter how gently I trailbrake, even with a -5 BB, they just lose the rear end and go into some wierd slide, it's so frustrating, now they all behave like the bugged Gr3 MR cars from the game release physics. Shame...
And the FFB is so inconsistent especially with stock road cars, you really need to guess what you will feel next and hope that you suddenly don't lose the car...
And is it just me or the "normal" AI got even stupider? Braking at the apexes for no reason at all, weaving down the straight just to nugde you a bit when you pass them...
Other than that, why is the braking so ruined? Why are all cars sliding if you don't slow down to a crawling pace before a corner, even with the slightest touch on the brake pedal, no matter how gently I trailbrake, even with a -5 BB, they just lose the rear end and go into some wierd slide, it's so frustrating, now they all behave like the bugged Gr3 MR cars from the game release physics. Shame...
And the FFB is so inconsistent especially with stock road cars, you really need to guess what you will feel next and hope that you suddenly don't lose the car...
And is it just me or the "normal" AI got even stupider? Braking at the apexes for no reason at all, weaving down the straight just to nugde you a bit when you pass them...
- 548
- Newport Beach, CA
- TurismoSlayer
I haven’t seen any mention of it yet, but is the notorious weird understeer vibration effect still present in the FFB?
- 130
- United States
Physics did improve, but I still don't feel the 'controllable' slip angle as much people are heralding and I'm guessing that's because of my FFB settings being adjusted like I've seen a lot of people complain about. My Mach 1 still suddenly decides to let go when it wants to and I'm back at square one. It wants to slide more often sure like what was on the new track and cars do feel a bit more sharp in corners. But overall this feels like a minor step forward. I'll be on the track and I'll go a hair over half-throttle and my car goes 'Yeah, I want to die now." and tries to enter a spin. I play ACC and I can see the body roll and physically see the car's slip angle as I turn, but in GT7 that's not the case. I find it's easier to play Grand Prix Legends—A hardcore 1967 season F1 sim where you have over 400 horsepower, and wheels practically made of wood and no downforce—than it is to play GT7. Somethin' ain't right. If something happens to the car, you can hear it. Tires losing grip, slip angle, bottoming out, because there's actual feedback for the player.
For people who play with controller, this physics update basically doesn't matter and is a small change.
I think that's what might be the issue. The game doesn't accurately visually show slip angle but wheels can translate the feel of it due to FFB. Think like you're playing a tank game and you fire the cannon but there's no animation, particle effect or sound cues you fired. People with feedback can feel that they fired the gun from the vibration, but people who don't have that vibration (FFB) can't tell when they have have. You're literally missing a whole sensory input that controller players don't get.
There's no visual showing of slip angle like what dedicated sims show.
Also, not entirely physics related but related for controller players. Good God. The throttle. Game really needs to add more control options because non-linear throttle is utterly insane and is one of the reasons I've stopped playing GT7 as often for the most part. You're not controlling the throttle. You're leading the throttle like a stubborn donkey.
If you kick the throttle there's a full second between the game maxxing out throttle and you pulling the trigger. I legitimately don't know how people are supposed to play this game unless they think controller players are all playing with maxed out assists, because playing dedicated racing Sims with a controller actually has more feel and control than what GT7 gives you. Utterly disappointing
For people who play with controller, this physics update basically doesn't matter and is a small change.
I think that's what might be the issue. The game doesn't accurately visually show slip angle but wheels can translate the feel of it due to FFB. Think like you're playing a tank game and you fire the cannon but there's no animation, particle effect or sound cues you fired. People with feedback can feel that they fired the gun from the vibration, but people who don't have that vibration (FFB) can't tell when they have have. You're literally missing a whole sensory input that controller players don't get.
There's no visual showing of slip angle like what dedicated sims show.
Also, not entirely physics related but related for controller players. Good God. The throttle. Game really needs to add more control options because non-linear throttle is utterly insane and is one of the reasons I've stopped playing GT7 as often for the most part. You're not controlling the throttle. You're leading the throttle like a stubborn donkey.
If you kick the throttle there's a full second between the game maxxing out throttle and you pulling the trigger. I legitimately don't know how people are supposed to play this game unless they think controller players are all playing with maxed out assists, because playing dedicated racing Sims with a controller actually has more feel and control than what GT7 gives you. Utterly disappointing
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- 715
- United States
I agree, but it is super hard to say I trust X person because Y, but not A person because B without hurting anyones feelings.
It's very true though. Even IRL doing track days and amateur rallycross I'm sorry to say I was at times AMAZED by how poorly skilled some people were, especially when they had beautifully built and well sorted cars. It was scary at times, and though I harbor no ill will or resentment towards them, the facts are what they are, and I 100% wouldn't trust them with telling me how to approach driving at that point in their journey.
For example, there was one gentleman I was coaching in a little drifting lesson at Evergreen raceway in WA state a couple years back, and NOTHING I said or did would prevent him from turning the wheel to full lock and pushing into the most terrible understeer you've ever seen. Even taking the wheel and showing him what to do and having another instructor step in didn't help at all. We had to get him off the pad before he ran into something, or someone. He was in a stock Toyota FT-86... a very easy car to slide around for a novice. Not everyone gets driving in the same ways.
I'm also wary of people when they say "I drive X cars fully modified on RS tires". That sounds like a recipe for disaster to me. Most times I lightly modify cars, and very rarely put road cars on any slick tire. Most road cars feel great right out of the box, and when I modify one, it's usually power mods to a desired level, and at most an SS tire on comp. suspension at close to default rates. Some cars do need extensive suspension tweaking to achieve desired results, but in my case it's rare.
I initially didn't mesh well with the new physics either, but after stepping back, trying a number of cars, and working within their limits it all started to break through... and now I'm loving it.
I have a T300rs 599XX and run it at 5 torque and 1 sensitivity and it feels great. Road cars and race cars. I think what's throwing some people off is it seems that GT have done more to model the specific steering weight of each car. Some are heavier than others, some seem very light.
I drove a very lightly modified EG Civic on SH tires last night and the steering was light, but I found while driving it more and more that even though it wasn't forceful, there was a TON of communication there and the car had a wide range of pliability during cornering.
I think everyone having issues on a wheel needs to slow everything down, forget everything they know about GT7s handling, and work back up into how things are now. It is going to feel strange, but there is good stuff here just waiting for you to find it!
I can't speak for controller users, but I'm sure to an extent the same theory would apply.
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- 16,258
- Melbourne
- ScottPuss20
- CheetahsMeow
I tested the dirt physics last night in the Impreza 22B Rally Car and it felt soo much better than before. I was actually having fun for once. The tyres feel like they're digging into the dirt instead of just floating over it. If PD wanted to make a Forza Horizon type game, they'd be able to do it now because driving on dirt is no longer a pain the arse. I think I spent about 15 minutes on Sardegna Windmills, which is more than I've ever done before because it was soo enjoyable.
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- 2,484
- oshkosh/WI
- MrWilso92
After about 500 miles in game i think i finally understand what my opinion is.
From the moment i first tryed out 1.49 the lack of FFB really struck me. And even though everyone says that its not just lack of, but more than that.
Before 1.49 you could push a car into a corner and feel the steering weight up as you turned in until it started to understeer and became light again. Now im feeling very little to none of that anymore.
Especially at lower speeds there is basically no difference at all in steering weight vs how much load the front tires are handling.
It literally feels like im driving my daily around town when im supposed to by hurtling a sports car or race car around at 100mph and the steering is light enough i can basically steer almost every car in the game with 1 finger.
The thrill and excitement from driving fast is pretty much gone.
I genuinely like the physics update but any detail thats been added has completely been nerfed by the loss of FFB.
Im on a Fanatec CSL elite btw te previous gen belt drive.
As an example One car in particular really stood out as being broken to me. The F1500T-A has little to no FFB at all.
From the moment i first tryed out 1.49 the lack of FFB really struck me. And even though everyone says that its not just lack of, but more than that.
Before 1.49 you could push a car into a corner and feel the steering weight up as you turned in until it started to understeer and became light again. Now im feeling very little to none of that anymore.
Especially at lower speeds there is basically no difference at all in steering weight vs how much load the front tires are handling.
It literally feels like im driving my daily around town when im supposed to by hurtling a sports car or race car around at 100mph and the steering is light enough i can basically steer almost every car in the game with 1 finger.
The thrill and excitement from driving fast is pretty much gone.
I genuinely like the physics update but any detail thats been added has completely been nerfed by the loss of FFB.
Im on a Fanatec CSL elite btw te previous gen belt drive.
As an example One car in particular really stood out as being broken to me. The F1500T-A has little to no FFB at all.
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Controller user.
Definitely more understeer... or something similar to that... actually seems more like the wheel isn't turning as much or as fast for the same controller input, because I don't feel the car front sliding as it would in typical understeer, the turn is just wider like I didn't fully turn the wheel but without the fuss of typical understeer.
Also longer braking distances that are less stable.
Still trying to understand this update... not sure if it's good or bad, I can't quite put my finger on it.
Definitely more understeer... or something similar to that... actually seems more like the wheel isn't turning as much or as fast for the same controller input, because I don't feel the car front sliding as it would in typical understeer, the turn is just wider like I didn't fully turn the wheel but without the fuss of typical understeer.
Also longer braking distances that are less stable.
Still trying to understand this update... not sure if it's good or bad, I can't quite put my finger on it.
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- 660
- United Kingdom
I have posted many times about the force feedback settings affecting the turning on motion steering but people using the sticks say that it doesn't affect them though.
I wonder if these settings now affect the sticks aswel 🤔 would be interested to find out if it does.
Here are some of my posts about it...
This one is the info
@Pesselles here is what I posted some time ago in this thread, it is about the DS4 but I'm sure you could find similar for the Dual Sense without having to get the expensive Sony controller.
I use motion steering and the back buttons but as per what @ScottPuss20 says, I have the back buttons set opposite to triggers.
R2 - accelerate
Right button - downshift
L2 - brake
Left button - upshift
It makes it easier to trail brake as you use your right hand to down shift at the same time as using you left hand to brake, meaning you can keep the same pressure on the trigger without wiggling another finger.
Here's the posts anyway for some info 👍🏻
Time Trial Discussion
Didn't have the willpower to improve my time at Mt. Panorama anymore. A low 2:13 is still a pretty decent time, just a shame to miss out on the 2:12 club. @half_sourly Is it possible to be added to the leaderboard for specific Time Trials? What I mean is, I generally don't put in any more...www.gtplanet.net
Time Trial Discussion
The new TT has already started yesterday and the site has not yet been updated, however the TT Suzuka GR.2 was inserted on the site 4 days before. As for this TT, it's funny, it's difficult to make a clean lap, but with some persistence you can do it. So I really miss the Maserati in Australia...
Bonus note: with motion steering you can use the force feedback adjustments, I have fiddled with these quite a lot and found this to be the best all round setting:
Force feedback Max Torque - 4
This is for when cornering hard
Force feedback sensitivity - 3
This is for driving in a straight line, keeping the car stable and making minor adjustments, this also affects turn in understeer
View attachment 1333954View attachment 1333955
Also my other settings
View attachment 1333956View attachment 1333957View attachment 1333958
Some information about the best way to test it
Confirmed by another motion steering user
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- 1,221
- Sweden, Gothenburg
- Highlanderlast
Any of you who can make first sector 15.8** on Eiger Nordwand and in that case can you share your way of doing T2?
Edit, sorry wrong thread
Edit, sorry wrong thread
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- 1,330
- Canada
- the-1st-hawkeyez
You’ve explained more accurately how I’ve been feeling with this update. I’ll give it a chance but my first impression was that they’ve completely messed up the game.
Well I shouldn’t say that, I drove a Camaro I had engine swapped and I was having troubles with the handling two days earlier before the update. I resorted to just maxing out every suspension setting. Besides toe and natural frequency. Compression, expansion, anti roll bar…. Just go FULL. It seemed better. Update rolls out. Guess I try that car. Didn’t notice much of a difference and it was a hair easier to drive that car.
Started hopping in other cars, a lot of mixed emotions on what I was experiencing. Hopping in the AC Cobra at Spa historic was it for me. Why is the steering feather light this thing feels like a hover craft? But a few corners it would be light but the wheel would kind of chop a bit. Almost like the tire was hitting the fender but not as choppy as how that normally is. Huh? It’s completely stock. Don’t make me buy suspension to fix it! Never did that before. Ever.
This explains what I’m experiencing. Dull. Muted. Light. Unresponsive.
- 630
- Austria
I'm always curious about things like this so I did a quick test. Did a few laps around Dragon Trail in a stock X-Bow. Did 2 laps with both settings (torque & sensitivity) at 5. Then I switched both to 1 and did 2 more laps. Next I switched both settings to 10, did 2 more laps. Then I left torque at 5 and just switched sensitivity. 2 laps at 1, 2 laps at 10.
Couldn't feel any difference between all the laps and the lap times were (more or less) the same also.
Conclusion: I don't think those settings apply to stick steering at all. Motion steering may be different though. Can't test this, 'cause I completely suck at motion steering😄)
- 1,133
- Canada
I spent last evening driving around Nordschleife in a variety of cars. In general, I think the new physics are fantastic. Honestly, I haven't ever in any other game felt a more convincing sense that I was actually driving a car. The Porsche GT3rs is just sublime. Most road cars really felt amazing - The XBow and Radical especially felt great...there's just a very satisfying wheel weight that totally feels like my own real car. Race cars I found to be a little trickier to manage. THe 917K is an absolute beast and very difficult to control. Theres less general wheel weight and a lot more road feel. This might be quite correct actually...it feels very raw and "un-adorned" and reading about the car it does sound like it was a difficult car to handle. I haven't tried a dirt track yet. I played around with the wheel settings for my G29 and gradually settled on 5 for torque and 10 for sensitivity.
**oops dammit multiposted! Sorry mods...
yeah, in a purely logical sense I can't think of a way that settings intended to send information to a motor could have any impact whatsoever on motion steering unless those settings also changed the nature of the axis sensitivity - which I don't think they do.
**oops dammit multiposted! Sorry mods...
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- 630
- Austria
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