Gran Turismo 7 Physics

[Scaff]

I believe it is the materials that change between the road version and the GT4. The GT4 cars tend to use more expensive, lighter, more rigid materials (carbon fibre, aluminum, etc...) from what I could gather on the manufacturers' websites.

Anyway @s0cks there is the additional question mark that Scaff mentioned, which is: what exactly is a Gr. 4 car? PD bases them on GT4 cars but who knows to what degree.

To a degree, again it depends on the specific regs, BTCC/TCR for example, which make up a number of the Gr.4 cars are more strict than GT$, which mandates certain body/chassis components have to remain the same, but not all.

Oddly GTE regs are actually more strict in that regard than GT4 ones.

"Unless explicitly permitted, the following components of the main structure/chassis must come from the same platform as the original car and must remain unmodified : - Longitudinal members - Bulkheads and underbody - Roof arch (structural part) - A, B and C pillars"

 

[mrPetros]

So any car nuts out there know what makes the Gr4 cars so much more grippy than their road brethren?

I'd be keen to see if you can mod a road car to handle more like a Gr4 car by doing certain upgrades and tuning adjustments. I tried a bit last night with the 911 GT3 '01. I even threw on a ballast and cranked it to the max and right to the front, to get a 48:52 weight bias (car is obviously very rear heavy by default). Increased spring stiffness and camber. Felt a lot better, but still nowhere near as grippy as the Gr4 cars.

Different programming from polyphony I guess.

After struggling for days (and spending a lot of credits) trying to make a proper race-bred 911T '81
I laughed my ass off when I drove the tom's supra.


IMO, there is no use trying to rationalize everything. bottom line, its a game.
Has its pluses and its shortcomings.

 

[fortbo]

Different programming from polyphony I guess.

After struggling for days (and spending a lot of credits) trying to make a proper race-bred 911T '81
I laughed my ass off when I drove the tom's supra.


IMO, there is no use trying to rationalize everything. bottom line, its a game.
Has its pluses and its shortcomings.

This so much, not everything’s going to be perfect. Even the best sims have their shortcomings. Iracing is hailed as one of the top dogs and there’s still a lot of weird things about their physics engine too.

 

[DivitLad]

Man the feedback you get on these tracks are great… They really stepped it up compared to GTS… the different sensation you get from the track is amazing! If the can get that straight line road feel you in AC GT7 would be even better!

Are there other T300 users feeling the different sensation you get from the track.. I feel as I can actually feel the tires flexing some times.. just got done doing American club 700 Daytona Road Course which is amazing btw with my ZL-1 Camaro 1LE and the road sensation you on that track from the banks, uneven surface bumps I just can’t express this experience GT7 is giving me. I was extremely close on getting a PC and AC but if PD can expand on this I will be pleased! Wobble Cam 2 takes some time to get use to but it’s the best view because it gives you that perspective of you were actually on track driving! It’s amazing I wish I could adjust it a little bit though, I would tone it down just a little bit. What’s cool through the stiffer the car the better the view is. I drove my 930 last night and it was like a floating boat compared to the ZL1 Camaro 😂

I'm using a T300 but not getting the same effects, even in gts at Maggiore where you get air n slam the front end back down, I could feel the whack strongly but it's feeling very faint now, you most certainly feel it using a ds4. something not right with my wheel possibly? , it's on v34 firmware.

 

[JDMKING13]

I'm using a T300 but not getting the same effects, even in gts at Maggiore where you get air n slam the front end back down, I could feel the whack strongly but it's feeling very faint now, you most certainly feel it using a ds4. something not right with my wheel possibly? , it's on v34 firmware.

My wheel settings are 3/1 in game make sure your FF is not so high it will wash out the small sensation you need to feel within the wheel..

Also make sure your wheel is switch to PS4 and the led light is RED.. if you have V.34 it has a PS5 mode hope this helps a little bit man.👍

 

[MadmuppGT]

@MadmuppGT
@s0cks



Stock Miata stock tires no electronic aids except ABS weak. The car is just old and soft so that’s what made it challenging.

Not sure what your video is supposed to show. If I could upload a video of my experience with that car you would think I'm playing a different game. The moment you turn your wheel on that first corner in my game that car is already spinning like I've yanked the wheel and handbraked it.

Like I said no word of exaggeration but the MX5 I had snapped and span at 23mph with no throttle or brake inputs on a gentle turn with probably 1/8 of a wheel turn. The car had slowed in a straight line with careful braking and I free wheeled it around a corner after it spinning the previous corners only for it to spin again.

Almost like the cars going to snap away whether I free wheel around a corner super slowly or boot it with full lock the result is still the same... violent unpredictable and unsavable oversteer

 

[R3V]

My wheel settings are 3/1 in game make sure your FF is not so high it will wash out the small sensation you need to feel within the wheel..

Also make sure your wheel is switch to PS4 and the led light is RED.. if you have V.34 it has a PS5 mode hope this helps a little bit man.👍

Do you use a PC to update firmware? Is the upgrade worth having to re-learn the wheel? I don't think I ever updated the firmware.

 

[JDMKING13]

Not sure what your video is supposed to show. If I could upload a video of my experience with that car you would think I'm playing a different game. The moment you turn your wheel on that first corner in my game that car is already spinning like I've yanked the wheel and handbraked it.

Like I said no word of exaggeration but the MX5 I had snapped and span at 23mph with no throttle or brake inputs on a gentle turn with probably 1/8 of a wheel turn. The car had slowed in a straight line with careful braking and I free wheeled it around a corner after it spinning the previous corners only for it to spin again.

Almost like the cars going to snap away whether I free wheel around a corner super slowly or boot it with full lock the result is still the same... violent unpredictable and unsavable oversteer

I believe everything you are saying, what I was showing, on its stock tires the car is controllable, weather you me or anyone else can a ACTUALLY control is a different story. When I first Played GT7 on everything I was spinning out crazy man I was shocked… when I look back it now I was just underestimate the physics, as soon as I switch my approach it was a better experience. Still on my high powered cars I still run TCS because if I don’t I have a chance of spinning out which was never the case in GTS. I never had that nervous factor in which I got from ACC, AC and now GT7!

 

[Veinz]

Default settings on the car, I took it easy over that jump too.



Edit:

To me there is something broken with the suspension, the default frequency is already minimum and the ride height is high. I lowered the dampers, and the car feels more or less the same over jumps. I can’t make the car any softer.

It’s unpredictable, even over small jumps. The AI are crashing because of it too.

 

[JDMKING13]

Do you use a PC to update firmware? Is the upgrade worth having to re-learn the wheel? I don't think I ever updated the firmware.

Yes you have to update wheel especially you have PS5… I was playing ACC the PS5 version and my wheel was terrible… in the PS4 version is what fine… someone told me about the version 34 firmware.. and how to switch to PS5 mode.. as soon as I did it it was fixed!

@Veinz Broo!!! Omg I’m cracking up 😂

 

[s0cks]

Different programming from polyphony I guess.

After struggling for days (and spending a lot of credits) trying to make a proper race-bred 911T '81
I laughed my ass off when I drove the tom's supra.


IMO, there is no use trying to rationalize everything. bottom line, its a game.
Has its pluses and its shortcomings.

I just thought it would be interesting to try. I might still give it ago at some point, just for the fun of it, with a road version and Gr4 version of the same car. See how close I can get it.

I would have thought the physics model would be global, meaning that it just looks at the vehicle parameters and simulates the physics. But sure, we don't know what "behind the scenes" parameters are being used for the Gr3/4 cars.

 

[Lord Protector]

I like the physics

Physics are good. Tyres are crap.

 

[mrPetros]

I just thought it would be interesting to try. I might still give it ago at some point, just for the fun of it, with a road version and Gr4 version of the same car. See how close I can get it.

I would have thought the physics model would be global, meaning that it just looks at the vehicle parameters and simulates the physics. But sure, we don't know what "behind the scenes" parameters are being used for the Gr3/4 cars.

if you pick a RWD car, good luck

 

[MadmuppGT]

I believe everything you are saying, what I was showing, on its stock tires the car is controllable, weather you me or anyone else can a ACTUALLY control is a different story. When I first Played GT7 on everything I was spinning out crazy man I was shocked… when I look back it now I was just underestimate the physics, as soon as I switch my approach it was a better experience. Still on my high powered cars I still run TCS because if I don’t I have a chance of spinning out which was never the case in GTS. I never had that nervous factor in which I got from ACC, AC and now GT7!

Do you think my wheel set up could have something to do with the difficulty too?
Like I said I'm using a pretty old G29 wheel on a stand from eBay while sat on the edge of the sofa. No racing rig or fancy wheel here.

Funnily enough the most frustrating thing is watching the replays, because I have TCS and Stability on the car is constantly fighting itself to stay on the tarmac causing it to wobble around corners and on straights. Like I said the Stability warning light is permanently lit. Which doesn't sound right as I assume it only lights up red when it's in use like ABS and TCS.

 

[Tenacious D]

For what it's worth, here are some Tenacious tips. Most of this is for wheel users, and most of it is basic stuff, but here goes.

• First off, race with the lightest, thinnest footwear possible, even socks.
• Particularly with the latest wheels, word is to set for light force feedback and sensitivity, like less than 3, in order to feel the car better. Some have sensitivity on 1.
• In GT7, assists are way too useful if you're struggling. I've been using light ABS, TC, Stability and Countersteering on non-race tires. It's too easy to spin out otherwise.
• Turn up the volume on tire sound in the level settings. You need to hear them clearly.
• You have to carefully manage turning and throttle, and turn with less gas and smooth acceleration. I race almost as if there's a string running from the wheel to my right foot, and when I turn, I ease off the pedal.
• Turn as little as possible, but as wide as you can. Follow the slow in-fast out method and hitting apex is key.
• Race afraid of wrecking. I've been through a few real life wrecks, so I have a measure of actual tension in all but the dinkiest races. It makes me more careful, especially in the rain. I guess I'm addicted to adrenaline.
• Running on one gear higher through turns is almost like free traction control.
• Watch replays from chase cam. This view helps me see mistakes quite well and how to improve.
• If you're really having fits, try turning on race line, brake zone, and even autodrive and do time trials on ever more difficult tracks - those available.
• Do all the License Tests and Cafe Booklets.
• Read through the upgrade tuning threads, particularly after an update.
• Rumor is that suspension height adjustment is inverted, that higher ride height results in more stability. I'm about to try this myself.
• Sit on your roulette tickets if you can till at least the first update.
• On dirt Rally courses with jumps, get off the gas till you land, then get back on it. You almost always go straight.
• As the GT Planet article states, if you want quick credits, turn difficulty down to Easy. The payouts are the same and it's usually easier to get a clean race for a 50% bonus, plus they're over sooner. And, no need to upgrade other than tires, unless you want a challenge. Those who say the bots are still too slow aren't talking about the leaders.
• Some helpful human should come up with a cost-effective upgrade guide at some point (hint).

 

[Veinz]

• On dirt Rally courses with jumps, get off the gas till you land, then get back on it. You almost always go straight.

This is not true. I was off the throttle in that video above, it feels like once you land the car is out of control most of the time no matter how much you try and square it off. WRC and Dirt Rally 2 arent this unpredictable.

 

[s0cks]

Do you think my wheel set up could have something to do with the difficulty too?
Like I said I'm using a pretty old G29 wheel on a stand from eBay while sat on the edge of the sofa. No racing rig or fancy wheel here.

Funnily enough the most frustrating thing is watching the replays, because I have TCS and Stability on the car is constantly fighting itself to stay on the tarmac causing it to wobble around corners and on straights. Like I said the Stability warning light is permanently lit. Which doesn't sound right as I assume it only lights up red when it's in use like ABS and TCS.

Compare it to a controller? See if it still lights up when on the straight. Also, above the speed/tachometer it shows steering input. Check that it's not doing something crazy.

 

[extreme car]

impressive, there's no way i'm able to do that i've been trying for an hour I can't even get bronze what wheel do you have and what assists if any?

I'm using logitech G27 with GIMX adapter.

come to think of it I think the GIMX adapter data log told me the wheel lock changed from 900 degree to 540 degree while I was setting up the handbrake that I didn't use on that run. Might be why the car is easier to handle than a stock road car that rotates 900 degree.

 

[traind]

Yeah because you're used to driving race cars and super cars with ESP and traction control off. Enough of this nonsense

I get what you mean but it isn't all nonsense. The GT7 physics are a nice step up from GTS but they need some tweaking. Some of us have driven fast cars to the point of oversteer on track in real life a number of times. No sim is perfect, GT7 is fun but it needs tweaking.

Last October I got to hang out a bit with John Edwards, a BMW works driver with about 15 pro wins in IMSA, Continental and ALMS. And a few class wins at the Nurburgring VLN too. I rode with him for about 10 laps, at speed, in 3 new, latest model street legal M cars: M2, M3 and M5 (all competition models). The M5c and M3c are fast cars but as you might expect, he turned off all driver aids. The last hotlap in each car he also hooned about a bit, provoking huge oversteer in a few of the slower corners. He's talented, obviously. He can haul ass while chatting about the car dynamics or his upcoming new M4 race car. So don't take it from me, very average track day and sim racing driver. Take it from those laps at and over the limit of traction with a pro. GT7 advances the GT series in the physics department, but it still needs a bit of work. And actually, imo, all the sims do in one area or the other.

 

[JDMKING13]

Damn just used the controller and it’s wayyyy easier! Felt a tab bit harder than GTS.

 

[Firestone]

I've been lucky enough to drive Porsche 993s, 996s and 997s in anger in real life . . . that is not how they handle in real life, Polyphony simply went for the harsh stereotype.

Oh, I haven't driven those cars yet in the game. I'm still a firm believer that people are not realizing how much throttle they are applying. I don't know what wheel set you are using, but I have a G27 and the accelerator pedal is very light, so it is very easy to depress more than you need. Depending on the type of real life car, the spring force may vary.

 

[Firestone]

If the physics were realistic, you wouldn't need any "getting used to it".

The reason why everyone has to get used to it, is because they are not realistic.

I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but you will hate real life then.

 

[JDMKING13]

Oh, I haven't driven those cars yet in the game. I'm still a firm believer that people are not realizing how much throttle they are applying. I don't know what wheel set you are using, but I have a G27 and the accelerator pedal is very light, so it is very easy to depress more than you need. Depending on the type of real life car, the spring force may vary.

Oh, I haven't driven those cars yet in the game. I'm still a firm believer that people are not realizing how much throttle they are applying. I don't know what wheel set you are using, but I have a G27 and the accelerator pedal is very light, so it is very easy to depress more than you need. Depending on the type of real life car, the spring force may vary.

I have a Stock 991 and it’s a dream to drive I also have a 998 but I didn’t drive that one yet. Your pedal pressure is spot on! Many of us been playing GTS for years the throttle inputs are a lot different from each game and now you have to take in the factor of chassis balance.. I can see why many people are finding it hard to adjust.

 

[Tenacious D]

A couple more thoughts.

• Make it a habit to aim for track boundaries in gradually turning or wandering tracks, rather than following the flow of the course. The more you turn your wheel, the more you add thousandths and hundredths of a second to your lap time. Make straight lines when you can. In a few places, you can shoot straight through curves or chicanes, like a section three-quarters of the way through Sardegna long.
• In contrast to the above, if you "massage" the wheel through turns, small wiggle adjustments, it has a better chance to find the grip angle it wants if it's on the verge of losing it. And it is how many race car drivers drive.
• Some gas usually gives you better grip. When a car is in trouble, I know it's hard to keep in mind to watch your gas pedal.
• In my mention of off-pedaling in Rally jumps, that's been my experience with Gran Turismo from GT5 through 7. Except this time, I'm using some or all of the driving assists.

For those of you too proud to use driving aids, well... wait for an update.

 

[xX Jojje Xx]

I'm using a T300 but not getting the same effects, even in gts at Maggiore where you get air n slam the front end back down, I could feel the whack strongly but it's feeling very faint now, you most certainly feel it using a ds4. something not right with my wheel possibly? , it's on v34 firmware.

Same here..
I come from AC and ACC and the FFB in those games are in my opinion really great.( T300 and PS5 ).
The physics in GT7 is good but could be fantastic if they improve the FFB.

 

[Scaff]

Yeah because you're used to driving race cars and super cars with ESP and traction control off. Enough of this nonsense

I've driven a number of both in reality with both off (well actually they never had either fitted), none behaved this GT 7 does when you are over the limit.

Honestly, this thread could have come straight out of an iRacing forum right now.

In GT7 mess up a small bit and it’s good night, and with a high powerful car with no electronic aids on that how it should be.

No, it's really not.

I've driven a Catherham R500 (and a whole host of similar cars), Continuation Cobra, Radical SR3, Formula Renault, Formula 3, and quite a bit more.

Over the limit by a small bit does not automatically equal 'good night' at all, are some cars harder to catch when you mess up? Yes, but that doesn't mean that all are or that the over-the-limit behavior we are seeing in GT 7 is accurate.

The fact alone that race-spec cars are easier to catch over the limit than road cars should be enough to be ringing alarm bells in that regard, as that runs counter to reality. A combination of much, much stiffer suspension and less progressive slick tyres should be more snappy over the limit (but still catchable) than a softer sprung road car with more progressive tyres, yet GT 7 right now is behaving exactly the opposite way.

What PD have done to improve the behavior if the cars up to and right on the limit is great, but that doesn't mean that a free pass should be given to them for the clear issues with the over the limit behavior, and no amount of people cherry-picking accident videos will turn what is demonstrably wrong into reality.

 

[///M3]

Edit to something more on topic:

 

[JDMKING13]

I've driven a number of both in reality with both off (well actually they never had either fitted), none behaved this GT 7 does when you are over the limit.

Honestly, this thread could have come straight out of an iRacing forum right now.


No, it's really not.

I've driven a Catherham R500 (and a whole host of similar cars), Continuation Cobra, Radical SR3, Formula Renault, Formula 3, and quite a bit more.

Over the limit by a small bit does not automatically equal 'good night' at all, are some cars harder to catch when you mess up? Yes, but that doesn't mean that all are or that the over-the-limit behavior we are seeing in GT 7 is accurate.

The fact alone that race-spec cars are easier to catch over the limit than road cars should be enough to be ringing alarm bells in that regard, as that runs counter to reality. A combination of much, much stiffer suspension and less progressive slick tyres should be more snappy over the limit (but still catchable) than a softer sprung road car with more progressive tyres, yet GT 7 right now is behaving exactly the opposite way.

What PD have done to improve the behavior if the cars up to and right on the limit is great, but that doesn't mean that a free pass should be given to them for the clear issues with the over the limit behavior, and no amount of people cherry-picking accident videos will turn what is demonstrably wrong into reality.

What I am saying is take the average person put them in a powerful car they never have driven to the limits with no electronic what do you think is going to happen? Everyone saying oh I drive this I did this, that’s fine besides you and a other few members who ACTUALLY Raced cars majority of us on this conversation would never take off the electronic aids on a 500hp let alone drive the way we do In GT7. Me personally I don’t have trouble catching slides or getting the car back in shape when going over the limit, but what I’m saying, I don’t think that’s far fetched at all, catching the cars once they hit their limit in AC is just as hard probably harder in my opinion and that’s with even better feedback.

 

[MadmuppGT]

Compare it to a controller? See if it still lights up when on the straight. Also, above the speed/tachometer it shows steering input. Check that it's not doing something crazy.

I'll give the controller a go later.

But with the wheel the light isn't flickering or flashing its just a solid red light while going straight. I turn the wheel probably at most 2 degrees and everything is flashing and flickering like it's Christmas day.
The car is already spinning way before I'm hitting the apex.
The thing is the wheel never behaved this way with Sport. I could make slight minimal inputs and they would do the trick.
But in GT7 it seems the game runs on a strict 14% of input is no where near enough, but 16% is way too much.

Which frankly makes what should have been my only and favourite downtime from a very tiring and dull job an extra chore in life.
My GF has even picked up on it now, she asked "Are you enjoying the game? You don't seem to be." She remarked how she would see me playing Sport and see that I was enjoying the game and while playing it. But shes remarked how my body language playing the game looks like I'm hunched over a computer doing work rather than playing a fun game.

Which is frankly how I'm feeling with it at the moment.
I've probably got another week or so in me before I just call it a day and sell the bloody thing.

 

[JDMKING13]

I'll give the controller a go later.

But with the wheel the light isn't flickering or flashing its just a solid red light while going straight. I turn the wheel probably at most 2 degrees and everything is flashing and flickering like it's Christmas day.
The car is already spinning way before I'm hitting the apex.
The thing is the wheel never behaved this way with Sport. I could make slight minimal inputs and they would do the trick.
But in GT7 it seems the game runs on a strict 14% of input is no where near enough, but 16% is way too much.

Which frankly makes what should have been my only and favourite downtime from a very tiring and dull job an extra chore in life.
My GF has even picked up on it now, she asked "Are you enjoying the game? You don't seem to be." She remarked how she would see me playing Sport and see that I was enjoying the game and while playing it. But shes remarked how my body language playing the game looks like I'm hunched over a computer doing work rather than playing a fun game.

Which is frankly how I'm feeling with it at the moment.
I've probably got another week or so in me before I just call it a day and sell the bloody thing.

I’m sorry if I asked you already what wheel are you using? The controller is way easier I tried it yesterday but it’s so boring compared to the wheel. I do like the feed back and the controller feels better than my wheel when you hit the rumble strips 😂

From another member haven’t tried it yet though.

Now you can really push the tire to its limit and the grip doesn’t drop dramatically like before causing miserable understeer and oversteer.

It also feels more rewarding and fun to drive as you can really attack a car in and out of a corner and really chew the tire like something made of rubber.

When the tire is on limit, making fine adjustment with your braking, throttle and steering, the car would react like it should due to load transfer, before the update there was nothing.

Now I can finally play the car around its grip limit and giggles.

Funny thing is that when people who had real track driving experience complained about the previous physics before 1.06 update on the internet . there are so many GAMERS educating these people saying it’s not the game’s problem, it’s your problem. LOL.

Also I didn’t see any GT YouTubers complaining the tire doesn’t feel right in the previous version. Hmm, Fishy.